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No Hail (peaked #2)

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Tyrano, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. Tyrano

    Tyrano

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2010
    Messages:
    81
    -No Hail -


    Introduction


    Despite Hail is no longer available on NU, this team was created when Snover wasn't RU yet. I was playing a team tournament when Hail was suddenly unbanned, and I lost that week's game because my team wasn't prepared. I was so angry that I decided to build a new team focusing on defeating Snover and his pals.
    Finally, that was the only game I lost in the entire tournament, and my team (Bloo, Malekith, Light, Hot N Cold, DestinyUnknown, M Dragon and me) managed to win.
    It has been peaked #2 a few weeks, now it's peaked #4 (nickname: Axel Blaze).

    At a glance


    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    In detail



    [​IMG]

    Piloswine @ Eviolite
    Ev's: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk
    Nature: Impish Ability: Thick Fat
    ~ Stealth Rock
    ~ Icicle Spear
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Stone Edge

    This is the most common set of Piloswine, but with Stone Edge instead Ice Shard, why? Remember this is an anti-hail team, so Stone Edge is more useful. I choose Piloswine over another SR users because he doesn't take damage from Hail and he has Thick Fat, which halves ice damage. I usually use him as lead, and once he has set SR, I use him as a physical tank or even as a sacrifice. His bulk is amazing, he can survive a Close Combat from Sawk (without CB) for example. And against Hail teams, he's the best counter for SubSplit Rotom-F and a great check to Glaceon because of Stone Edge, which also helps against some switching in Charizards expecting nothing more than an Icicle Spear, while Piloswine can take all of its attacks.

    [​IMG]

    Skuntank @ Black Sludge
    Ev's: 252 Atk / 220 SpDef / 36 Speed
    Nature: Adamant Ability: Aftermath
    ~ Poison Jab
    ~ Pursuit
    ~ Sucker Punch
    ~ Taunt

    The most famous set of Skuntank, the one used to counter some serious threats like Musharna or Exeggutor. Poison Jab is his main attack, and Sucker Punch is very helpful to revenge kill, specially after Taunt, which helps me against status inducers or spikers. Against Hail teams, his main goal is to defeat Snover pursuiting it, so he can put Hail again after I use Rain Dance with Ludicolo.

    [​IMG]

    Duosion @ Eviolite
    Ev's: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpAtk / 0 Atk Iv's
    Nature: Bold Ability: Magic guard
    ~ Calm Mind
    ~ Psychic
    ~ Signal Beam
    ~ Recover

    It's the Musharna's substitute on Hail metagame. Duosion is better in this metagame because he doesn't take Hail damage and Moonlight is less useful than Recover. I use it as a lategame setup sweeper, when it manages to use Calm Mind one or two times, it's really hard to take it down. The 0 Atk IV's are because of Liepard Foul Play.

    Now that Hail is no longer available on NU, while testing with Malekith I realized that my team was weak against status changes, so I changed Duosion for Musharna:

    Musharna (open)
    Musharna @ Leftovers
    Ev's: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpAtk / 0 Atk Iv's
    Nature: Bold Ability: Synchronize
    ~ Calm Mind
    ~ Psychic
    ~ Heal Bell
    ~ Moonlight

    They fulfill similar roles, but with some differences: while Duosion doesn't take Hail damage, Musharna get's leftovers recovery; Duosion has less bulk than Musharna, but Recover has more PP than Moonlight; Duosion can attack Dark-type mons, while Musharna helps the team with Heal Bell. The current version of the team has Musharna instead Duosion, but I wanted to post the original team.

    [​IMG]

    Sawk @ Choice Scarf
    Ev's: 252 Atk / 252 Speed / 4 HP
    Nature: Adamant Ability: Mold Breaker
    ~ Close Combat
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Ice Punch
    ~ Stone Edge

    I use Sawk as lategame sweeper and revenge killer. I always try to keep him as healthy as I can, so he can revenge kill things like Zangoose, Carracosta, Swellow or Samurott. Mold Breaker is really helpful against Sturdy or Levitate, specially being choiced since I can spam Earthquake without taking care of Haunter or Eeleektross for example. I used to use Emboar as choice scarf user, but spaming Superpower is not a good idea, so I choose Sawk over him (since I need a fighting poke against Hail). It's adamant because it outspeed jolly Emboar and jolly Sawk can't outspeed Rotom (both scarfed).

    [​IMG]
    Eeleektross @ Leftovers
    Ev's: 252 SpAtk / 172 HP / 84 Speed / 0 Atk IV's
    Nature: Modest Ability: Levitate
    ~ Volt Switch
    ~ Thunderbolt
    ~ Giga Drain
    ~ Flamethrower

    This thing is a powerhouse. It can hit x2 a lot of mons, and at least neutral to all NU, and it has no weakness. I picked it because y needed a specially attacker, and I wanted to use it long ago. The speed and HP ev's are to maintain balance between speed and bulk, Leftovers to negate possible Hail. I chose Giga Drain over Grass Knot because of some lighter mons, and that recovery is also well appreciated. Finally, Volt Switch gives a very useful momentum.

    [​IMG]
    Ludicolo @ Life Orb
    Ev's: 252 SpAtk / 252 Speed / 4 SpDef / 0 Atk IV's
    Nature: Modest Ability: Swift Swim
    ~ Rain Dance
    ~ Surf
    ~ Giga Drain
    ~ Ice Beam

    This one is a very important poke against Hail because Rain Dance. I wanted a weather abuser who resist water and could put rain or sun just to finish hail when Snover was gone. At first I thought of a Rain Dance version of Samurott but it didn't work at all, later I tried Exeggutor but it was weak to ice, so finally I come up with Ludicolo. It's a great poke, fast and powerful, it can take down a whole team only by itself thanks to its great coverage. I chose Surf over Hydro Pump because I always had a bad experience with accuracy.

    Threat List


    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] - All of them are dangerous when they get the boost, so I have to play carefully to not allow it. I usually finish them with Sawk or suckerpunching them with Skuntank.

    [​IMG] - This one deserves a separate section. SubBU Braviary it's really hard to face when it starts to boost, but Eeleektross helps a lot avoiding this.

    [​IMG] - Golurk gives me problems only when I have to check it. I usually sacrifice Piloswine and then I revenge-kill it.

    [​IMG] - Despite it isn't very popular, this one gives me problems. On rain it can OHKO my entire team with the exception of Duosion/Musharna who can't OHKO Swanna. Ludicolo outspeeds it but it can only OHKO Swanna after SR. Sawk outspeeds it too, but I have to rely on Stone Edge.



    Importable


    Duosion Version (open)
    Code:
    Piloswine (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    - Icicle Spear
    
    Skuntank (M) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Aftermath
    EVs: 252 Atk / 220 SDef / 36 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Poison Jab
    - Pursuit
    - Sucker Punch
    - Taunt
    
    Duosion (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Recover
    - Psychic
    - Signal Beam
    - Calm Mind
    
    Sawk (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Ice Punch
    
    Eelektross (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 172 HP / 252 SAtk / 84 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Flamethrower
    - Giga Drain
    - Thunderbolt
    
    Ludicolo (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Rain Dance
    - Giga Drain
    - Ice Beam
    - Surf


    Musharna version (open)
    Code:
    Piloswine (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    - Icicle Spear
    
    Skuntank (M) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Aftermath
    EVs: 252 Atk / 220 SDef / 36 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Poison Jab
    - Pursuit
    - Sucker Punch
    - Taunt
    
    Musharna (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Psychic
    - Heal Bell
    - Moonlight
    - Calm Mind
    
    Sawk (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Ice Punch
    
    Eelektross (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 172 HP / 252 SAtk / 84 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Flamethrower
    - Giga Drain
    - Thunderbolt
    
    Ludicolo (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Rain Dance
    - Giga Drain
    - Ice Beam
    - Surf


    Last Look


    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    PD: Sorry about my English, I probably have made a few mistakes writing the post.
  2. FLCL

    FLCL
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,956
    in order to deal with the boosting sweepers that you listed as threats better, you should run choice scarf rotom-s over eelektross. although it fares similarly to scarf sawk, you can now outpace gorebyss after a shell smash, which is crucial since it can sweep you clean if ludicolo has taken some prior damage.

    to make up for the loss of power, you can use choice band over choice scarf on sawk. it's one of the deadliest threats in the tier, and its counters can all be trapped by skuntank.

    toxic is a better option than stone edge on piloswine, especially since hail is no longer here. it is great for crippling common switch ins such as alomomola or tangela.


    summary of changes:

    scarf rotom-s over eelektross
    choice band over choice scarf on sawk
    toxic over stone edge on piloswine


    set(s) (open)
    Rotom-Fan @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Air Slash
    - Trick
    - Volt Switch
    - Thunderbolt

    Piloswine @ Eviolite
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Icicle Spear
    - Toxic
    - Stealth Rock

    Sawk (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Ice Punch
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
  3. Tenshinhan

    Tenshinhan

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2010
    Messages:
    68
    Your team is very slow, and need Sawk to revenge kill fasters swepers...
    If you dont want to make a big change... you can replace Eleektross by Zebstrika, Zebstrika is fast enough to outspeed and revene kill threats like Samurott, Zangoose or Sawsbuck, and can OHKO all of them with Thunderbolt and Overheat respectly, finally, Zebstrika has Sap Sipper, so it can prevent Tangela Sleep Powder; Or Lightingrod if you want to boost your special atack. You can use the Scarf version in order to RK gorebyss and Timid Ludicolo, making your Sawk CB or other set, or you can use a Specs / Life Orb version of Zebstrika while keeping Cscarf Sawk.

    I will add Pinsir in threat list, the SubMoxie version with X-Scissor, Close Combat and eQ/SE (Doesn´t matter) can put you in a dent, as only Duosion resist Fighting type and is weak to a stabbed X-scissor.

    Klang is also dangerous, as it defeat Piloswine (2hko with gear grind after a boost, and eQ doesnt ohko it) Duosion and Skuntank are set up fodders, such as Sawk trapped in Stone Edge or Ice Punch so be careful.
  4. ium

    ium rowan is an ape
    is an official Team Rateris an Artist Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2012
    Messages:
    724
    piloswine / skuntank / duosion / sawk / eelektross / ludicolo

    well, you already pointed out the major weaknesses with this team, and i agree that some of them are a huge problem.

    first of all, you could run a faster check so that +2 carracosta, samurott, or gorebyss can't get away with a sweep so easily. running a choice scarf rotom-s will allow you to outspeed and KO all of them. however, just be aware that you need to preserve rotom-s and make sure it takes minimal stealth rock damage so that it can tank +2 aqua jet. it also threatens sawsbuck and substitute + bulk up braviary to an extent.

    next, although piloswine is pretty neat, i think having a good, solid answer to normal- and flying-types is better to have. i'm going to recommend metang over piloswine since it does just that with its steel-typing. however, what metang is also able to have is its resistance to ice- and psychic-type attacks. the former is actually very important since something like offensive articuno or regice can hit your team quite hard.

    i would also definitely use musharna over duosion (unless stall teams are a problem for you), because its bulk with such an hp stat is just much superior. however, i would also consider using thunder wave instead of heal bell or signal beam. that acts as a last-ditch effort to stop the mentioned sawsbuck and water-type pokemon since they can't immediately OHKO you without setting up if you're at good health.

    finally, you can try to use a choice band on sawk instead of choice scarf since i recommended rotom-s to be your scarf user. choice band sawk will offer a powerful wallbreaker that your team is lacking currently.

    summary:
    metang piloswine / skuntank / thunder wave musharna duosion / choice band choice scarf sawk / choice scarf rotom-s eelektross / ludicolo


    sets (open)
    [​IMG] Rotom-Fan @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Thunderbolt
    - Air Slash
    - Trick

    [​IMG] Metang @ Eviolite
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Toxic
    - Meteor Mash
    - Earthquake

    [​IMG] Musharna @ Leftovers
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Moonlight
    - Psychic
    - Thunder Wave


    also, i must be really slow or flcl must be doing his three-sentence rates because i didn't even know he posted.
  5. Tyrano

    Tyrano

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2010
    Messages:
    81
    @FLCL

    I tried Scarf Rotom while ago and I don't like it. It takes a lot of damage from SR, and there are many pokes that resists electric and flying moves so I can lost momentum. The best thing of Eeleektross is its great coverage, it helps a lot, and I'm not so scared of the boosters I listed before. They cannot get a free switch in front of anyone of my team, and they can be finished by Skuntank or Sawk. Gorebyss maybe it's the most dangerous but as I said, it's going to take damage when it uses Shell Smash, and then Skuntank can finish it.

    Toxic on Piloswine sounds interesting.

    @Tenshin

    Pinsir is not really a great threat. Remember that Piloswine has Stone Edge, it can survive a Close Combat and Pinsir takes damage from SR. Klang it's a more dangerous poke, but I don't see it much.

    @ium

    As I said to FLCL, I really don't like Rotom-s. I know it can be a better revenge killer, but I don't like it taking 25% every time it shows off. Metang is an interesting option, but Piloswine can also take Articuno and Regice (Stone Edge), and gives me a good Skuntank counter.
  6. FLCL

    FLCL
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    1,956
    if you stick with choice scarf sawk then i suggest changing the nature to jolly so you can outpace other common scarfers such as braviary, gardevoir, and +2 combusken.

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