1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

No Hazards! NONE! (SmashPass team Peaked 1968 on PS)

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by GRB1, Aug 7, 2013.

  1. GRB1

    GRB1

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    119
    Hey guys, Jayza/ Aquila Hun from PS here with my best team yet! It's a smashpass rain team and I'm quite proud of it. I'm still using it but I know it can be improved. So read on, and enjoy the team!

    [​IMG]
    Arceus-Grass @ Meadow Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 HP / 32 SAtk / 100 SDef / 124 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Judgment
    - Magic Coat
    - Stealth Rock

    This guy is my lead. He counters every weather inducer bar the odd abomasnow. This guy kicks serious ass. Nature and ev's allow me to ohko both tyranitar and groudon with judgment and take some beatings with a nice amount of bulk. Speed allows me to outspeed every non-scarfed base 90 pokemon like offensive groudon with fire punch, which messes up my day. Moves let me bounce and set up stealth rocks for braking sashes and multiscale, which is absolutely CRUCIAL for this team to deal with threats like darkrai and lugia who both destroy the idea of this team.

    [​IMG]
    Kabutops (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Waterfall
    - Rapid Spin
    - X-Scissor
    - Night Slash
    Kabutops is plan B. If hazards somehow find their way onto MY FIELD for ONE TURN, they've outstayed their welcome. Thats why I have rapid spin + night slash, to deal with spin-blockers like giratina and *shudder*... ghostceus (sucks). Adamant nature helps loads with this and still outspeeds entire unboosted meta under rain bar other kabutops, who can't really threaten anyway. X-scissor is for dark, psychic, and leaf types. Ev's are self explanatory.

    [​IMG]
    Espeon (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 80 HP / 252 Def / 176 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Grass Knot
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Reflect
    - Yawn

    Latios is physically frail, especially after a shell smash. No denying that. That is why I have reflect in this set. I don't know if its been working as well as I originally presumed it would but changes can be made. The same can be said about the EV's which I may change to a more offensive special attacking set. Anywho, this guy really helps against less skilled players. I absolutely hate to say that, but against skilled players, the team preview is espeon's worst enemy. Many of their would-be hazard setter will usually go straight for an attacking move which really hurts this frail cat.. thing. I tried to go bulky but he still doesn't hold up to well. Grass knot is starting to seem redundant in light of Arceus-grass' judgments, and hp-fighting needs more Sp.Atk Ev's to function well at all. A lot to change here, and thats why I need your help! :) Yawn does help so much though against sweepers that are all set up, as it many times forces a switch.

    [​IMG]
    Kyogre @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 80 HP / 156 Def / 252 SAtk / 20 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Surf
    - Thunder
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunder Wave

    Kyogre is my weather inducer, and after swift judgment has been doled upon T-tar and groudon, rain is here to stay. T-tar is really the main reason kyogre is here. Sandstorm breaks smeargle's precious sash and excadrill outspeeds smeargle even after a shell smash. Simply, tyranitar is public enemy #1. Other than Sucker Punch darkrai, as I was painfully taught by hyw 12, who I believe to be right now in the top 5 in the ubers ladder. EV's and moves make for a bulky weather inducer who still wrecks with his STAB surf in rain and has amazing uber tier coverage.

    [​IMG]
    Smeargle (M) @ Focus Sash (The Passer)
    Trait: Own Tempo
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Shell Smash
    - Spore
    - Baton Pass
    - Magic Coat

    SmashPass. Smeargle. Questions? Good, because this guy is one annoying son of a bitch. As the meta changes and adapts to smashpass tactics, with lum berry dialga with roar/ dragon tail running around in it's undies, and priority moves dominating the tier, this guys job gets so much more difficult. But you know what? There is nothing more satifying in this plane of existence than smashpassing to a latios vs.team without thundurus/dialga going against smeargle at that moment. To set this guy up clean without breaking his sash, I usually sacrifice one of my anti hazard cores (usually espeon). Usually worth it.

    [​IMG]
    Latios (M) @ Soul Dew (The Smasher)
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 124 Def / 252 SAtk / 132 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Psyshock
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Ok, here's the deal. You've got contemporary banjo lessons at 2 o'clock and its 1:58 and my latios just got in clean after a smashpass. What do you do? You forfeit to save yourself the 1-2 minutes it will take to sweep your team and start warming up your banjo fingers that's what you do. Oh god this guy... just ohkoes meta (yea blissey too) with its amazing coverage moves at 2.5x Sp.Atk. The one problem? Priority. Many teams nowadays now carry two priority users like giratina/shadow sneak and arceus/espeed. With my current EV's, I can deal with one and ohko back with D-Pulse (arceus too after stealth rock), but together, especially with super effective shadow sneak, I have no hope, and worse, no secondary win condition if smeargle is not in mint condition, which is never. I've been thinking about latias but I'm not so sure how my ohkoing power will be affected. Suggestions on that would be appreciated, btw. Ev's let me outspeed choice scarf darkrai, which I know is a weird speed creep but you know, you never know...






    P.S.
    The other day I read an RMT by Sasha The Master, one of the most famed users of smashpass in the game. He expressed that smashpass is not as easy or noobish as many would like to think. I cannot tell you how true this is. In a three day period, I have experienced some of the hardest battles I have ever encountered before at the hands of less than impressive teams that my older standard offensive teams could have beaten without trouble. I respect Sasha The Master, and I respect SmashPass. I hope you can too.

    Anyway guys thanks for the read. Rate, hate, and steal if you liked!





    Importable:

    Smeargle (M) @ Focus Sash

    Trait: Own Tempo

    Shiny: Yes

    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 Spd

    Jolly Nature

    - Shell Smash

    - Spore

    - Baton Pass

    - Magic Coat


    Latios (M) @ Soul Dew

    Trait: Levitate

    EVs: 124 Def / 252 SAtk / 132 Spd

    Modest Nature

    - Dragon Pulse

    - Psyshock

    - Thunderbolt

    - Hidden Power [Fire]


    Kabutops (M) @ Life Orb

    Trait: Swift Swim

    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd

    Adamant Nature

    - Waterfall

    - Rapid Spin

    - X-Scissor

    - Night Slash


    Espeon (M) @ Focus Sash

    Trait: Magic Bounce

    EVs: 80 HP / 252 Def / 176 SDef

    Impish Nature

    - Grass Knot

    - Hidden Power [Fighting]

    - Reflect

    - Yawn


    Kyogre @ Leftovers

    Trait: Drizzle

    EVs: 80 HP / 156 Def / 252 SAtk / 20 Spd

    Bold Nature

    - Surf

    - Thunder

    - Ice Beam

    - Thunder Wave


    Arceus-Grass @ Meadow Plate

    Trait: Multitype

    EVs: 252 HP / 32 SAtk / 100 SDef / 124 Spd

    Modest Nature

    - Calm Mind

    - Judgment

    - Magic Coat

    - Stealth Rock
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2013
  2. cfdu1202

    cfdu1202

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2010
    Messages:
    45
    Props for using smashpass!

    Honestly, I don't see why you aren't using Dialga. Dialga is a great smashpass recipient because it resists Espeed/shadow sneak, and it can get past blissey too. Sure Dialga can lose some OHKO, but so does Latios: Under rain ferrothorn can survive a hp fire (44% chance) and can cripple latios with paralysis. Arceus-Grass survives anything as long as the sun isn't shining, and is a great annoyance to your whole team. Basically HP Fire + Kyogre isn't a good mix. Tyranitar in sand can still switch-in on HP Fire/Psychock, survives the next hit and OHKO. Even if he switches in Dragon Pulse, it can at least setup sandstorm, then the following Espeed/shadow sneak from Extremekiller/Giratina-O OHKO, despite your defense investment. Heatran can survive a hit and roar Latios away.

    Go 252spatk/252speed timid on espeon, so you can ohko Groudon. Espeon has great base speed, setting up a reflect before dying might be key.

    Replace X-Scissor by Stone Edge on Kabutops. X-Scissor only hits Arceus-Grass better; the greater power against Lugia and other dragons such as Rayquaza or Palkia helps.

    I want some explanation on Kyogre's ev! It seems weird

    I'm not a smashpass player myself, so take my advices with caution.

    PS: lol @ sucker punch Darkrai
  3. MafiaZebra

    MafiaZebra

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2013
    Messages:
    31
    I would like to say that you should switch the recipient. Latios seems too fragile to take E speeds. Also, I think you are using hp fire for ferrothorn but psyshock should be fine because it's super effective and targets defense while hp fire is less lethal because of the rain. I like the team otherwise.

    p.s Smeargle looks fabulous

    p.p.s It's Phylum
  4. GRB1

    GRB1

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    119
    @cfdu1202 hey thanks for the rate! You know, I'm thinking about just eschewing Kyogre for Groudon and kabutops for a different spinner and I would need a suggestion as to who. Groudon gives me a switch in on lead Dialga and also buffs HP Fire. Espeons evs will be changed and I am sure it will help a good deal. The reason I don't run Dialga is because I have no answer to blissey, ho-oh or lugia other than ancient power/thunderbolt but blissey easily gets off a thunder wave. But any suggestions for a Dialga set?

    @MafiaZebra hey psyshock doesn't hit ferrothorn for super effective (dude I wish) but actually ferrothorn resists psyshock and has higher Def than Sp.def so it's my worst move against him. Who do you suggest as a replacement recipient. I've thought Dialga, Reshiram, and Ho-oh since I allow no hazards on my field.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2013
  5. Blue Jay

    Blue Jay The notorious J Lube
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    May 20, 2013
    Messages:
    361
    Dialga is commonly used for its excellent defensive typing (most importantly resisting all common priority moves in Uber), good power and coverage. It can also run White Herb so as not to be weakened after a Shell Smash. It cannot break Chansey, but this is one of the reasons such teams may elect to have secondary SS recipients and pass the boosts based on the opponent's team. Reshiram is not a good idea, as without sun support it is merely an inferior Kyurem-W. And Ho-Oh, although +2 Brave Birds would devastate almost anything, is a poor choice as its best move kills it.

    I recommend having a secondary win condition in case you fail to SmashPass, as currently your team can hardly accomplish anything else. A powerful, independent sweeper such as the Ekiller Arceus Sasha opted for would be ideal.

    Also, if Espeon's lack of bulk is a problem, you might opt for Xatu in its stead.
  6. GRB1

    GRB1

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    119
    Thanks for the rate blue jay. I'll probably opt for ekiller but then I sacrifice my kyogre, Groudon, and Tyranitar check (ouch) in grassceus. Any idea for a different
    secondary win condition? Maybe I'll switch grassceus for physical ghostceus and shaymin s for grassceus because depending on the team preview ill either smashpass to Latios or ghostceus as I have done before when ghostceus was on the team as a spinblocker. He wrecks anything not named Groudon including the pink blobs and lugia with stealth rock to break multiscale and plus it provides me with a spinblocker. Maybe with ghostceus and Dialga in tandem I can be more productive?


    Lol darkrai with sucker punch still wrecks ghostceus
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2013
  7. MafiaZebra

    MafiaZebra

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2013
    Messages:
    31
    Arceus can learn grass knot at the risk of a move slot to counter kyogre, groundon, and tyranitar.
  8. GRB1

    GRB1

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    119
    @MafiaZebra thanks I know I recently did some calcs with that and brick break already takes care of Tyranitar and shadow claw destroys kyogre because of its weak defense stat. But I've got a spare moveslot so why not for Groudon? Thanks a bunch!
  9. cfdu1202

    cfdu1202

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2010
    Messages:
    45
    If you eshew Kyogre for Groudon; then you have not a lot of choices for an offensive spinner. Only Cloyster can fit the bill, but who are you going to replace? Basically just play espeon safely (Much harder to do than to say it).
    SmashPass teams usually have a special recipient (usually Dialga), and a physical one (usually Arceus). Playing with Latios is fine, but you will need a second recipient.

    Dialga@White Herb/Life Orb
    Trait: pressure
    i don't know about the evs, sorry. Give him enough speed to outpace +1 base 130/ +1 base 125/ +1 base 108 (your choice here)
    Modest Nature
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Thunderbolt
    - Aura Sphere
    - Flamethrower

    If you want to beat Blissey then use a Rash nature, and replace Aura Sphere by Brick Break.
  10. GRB1

    GRB1

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    119
    Ok guys, I used dialga for a while, but I missed the power and I drew the line when a +2 dragon pulse brought an opposing groudon down to 48% and then proceeded to ohko me at 100% with an earthquake. I might use latias instead?
  11. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,310
    I don't think that's possible. Unless you scored a minimum roll using Dialga with zero offensive investment and no boosting item against a max HP max SpD Groudon, then Dialga should have done much more damage. (+2 0 SpA Dialga Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon: 213-252 (52.72 - 62.37%) -- 99.61% chance to 2HKO) And seeing as how this is a completely unrealistic scenario, I think you're really underestimating Dialga's power and utility on a smashpass team. +2 252+ SpA Life Orb Dialga Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 508-601 (125.74 - 148.76%) -- guaranteed OHKO looks a little bit more likely.

    Also, Latios and Latias are really really frail on the defensive side, and are very vulnerable to priority. With the setup it takes to facilitate a smashpass sweep, I'd definitely suggest something more durable like Dialga, who has an excellent movepool and some very nice resistances.

    Run Low Kick and Stone Edge > Night Slash and X-Scissor, as they suck, and are really situational. Also, Low Kick has pretty good coverage and gives you a check to Normal Arceus in rain, and Stone Edge is a decently reliable STAB move that has power comparable to a supereffective X-Scissor (it's actually stronger than a supereffect Night Slash). Waterfall under rain (where you should be using Kabutops) is much more powerful than both of them. 80 * 1.5 (STAB) * 1.5 (rain) = 180, while Night Slash hits 140 BP and X-Scissor hits 160 BP when supereffective.

    I'd run Palkia > Espeon so you have a way to beat Giratina-O and Rayquaza, letting Kabutops function as a secondary win condition if you make the changes listed above. I can't stress this hard enough: Night Slash and X-Scissor aren't going to hit anything, unless some Psychic / Ghost types start popping up or Malimar gets released early. Smeargle should function as your lead, so hazards aren't too big of a hassle, and you already have a Rapid Spin user.
  12. GRB1

    GRB1

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    119
    @blitzlefan hey thanks for the rate. Problem is at .67x defense priority will still usually do a decent chunk of damage and is only exacerbated by the residual life orb damage. Plus, the damage dealt by 2.3x dialga is still not enough to ohko many common ubers. That only makes life orb more complicated. Also, I don't lead with smeargle because of the absolute need for rocks to be up to handle ho-oh, sash darkrai, and multicale lugia. But I think I may give Dialga another whack anyway, seeing as his Sp.Atk is 570 after life orb, 20 below soul dew latios.

    Thanks!
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2013
  13. GRB1

    GRB1

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    119
  14. MewTheDestroyer

    MewTheDestroyer

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2012
    Messages:
    72
    Not too bad of a team. Now, you have SmashPass, but you have no Spikes! Spikes are a large part of SmashPass, because they take a huge chunk of health from anything that touches the ground! I'm suggesting Red Card Deoxys-D instead of Arceus, because Deoxys-D gets Magic Coat, which can keep anything bad from happening to your team (status hazards etc.) and gets Spikes and Rocks, meaning you get multihazards! Also if something wants to set up on it, you have Red Card to force them out!
  15. GRB1

    GRB1

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    119
    @MewTheDestroyer hi! I've changed the team a lot (http://pastebin.com/EySgRTAg) and still lack spikes because stealth rock is really all I need for a guarantee that I can kill lugia and darkra with a +2 Dialgai, something spikes cannot do in regards to lugia. Plus, in this new team, Deoxys-S would get screwed by taunt if I replaced seismic toss with spikes.
  16. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,310
    Regarding the pastebin team... you have some... interesting sets. Personally, I think Smeargle should run Magic Coat > Roar to screw over Taunt users like Deoxys-S and sometimes Mewtwo. Roar probably won't help all that much as people usually don't try to set up on Smeargle (Smeargle can set up much faster with SmashPass). Your Deoxys-S spread is especially strange. Why bother running max SpA when you don't have any attacking moves? And Seismic Toss isn't going to kill anything. At least push the EVs into bulk. I'd personally recommend Deoxys-S with SR / Spikes / Taunt / Fire Punch with 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe @ Jolly nature. Lastly, your Kyogre set is just... ummm.. can you explain it? Choice Scarf Kyogre gets walled at the worst times, and HP Fire and no SpA or Spe investment is really going to hinder it.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)