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No longer a dream (Peaked 1350)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Yilx, Jun 17, 2012.

  1. Yilx

    Yilx Sad
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    UPDATE: Using the suggested Scizor set and Heatran over Celebi right now. It has been more consistent than Starmie so far. I don't really need to utilize spin very often as my team does not particularly mind rocks on the field. I'll miss Bug Bite, but U-turn and Roost provide utility that Bug Bite will never do.

    No nonsense here, I'm just going to go straight to the history of this team and the members themselves.

    Mid 2010 when I enlisted into the army, Gen 5 started and things kicked off with DW being the normal ladder witheveryone hyping about shadow tag Chandelure, Excadrill's potential ubers status and Whimsicott being the 'best pokemon ever'. Fresh into Gen5, I tried many things, but I couldn't figure out what to use for a proper, competitive team. I knew it wouldn't work as well, but I ported over my successful Gen4 Bulky Offense team into Gen5, which was as follows;

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    The most glaring problems were, well, lack of power and balance to do much to the new threats like Conk, Thundurus, etc. and friends. I tried changing their sets and modified my team slightly around. I enjoyed a bit of success with defensive Rest talk Gyara for a good amount of time, but the inconsistency was very clear after a few bouts of laddering with decent people with proper teams. I wanted to preserve my defensive core, however, so I said sorry to Gyara, Rotom-H and Pert, bringing in Landorus, Ferrothorn and Rotom-W in their stead.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    While I enjoyed more success with this team, there were huge gaping flaws that, once exploited, could beat me very easily; Volcarona and the omnipresent Terrakion could muscle through me relatively easily with little setup. I needed Ferrothorn to deal with rain, however, but I eventually settled down with changing Landorus for the more defensive Gliscor and Ferrothorn for Celebi, who still resists Water and Electric.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    After posting this RMT, I finally decided to use Heatran over Celebi;

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    ~NOT A DREAM~

    TEAM AS IT STANDS NOW:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Cannon (Rotom-W) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Trick
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    ROLE: Revenge Killer, Scout

    The member that I lead with most of the time, with amazing effect. Rotom-W fails to disappoint except when Hydro Pump misses, but even then the ability to scout, revenge kill and later on cripple on a defensive Pokemon by tricking the Scarf onto it brings everythign that my team needs to the table. 'Cannon' here might seem pretty standard, but he gets the job done very well.

    I must only be careful of not giving away the Scarf too early into the match lest I lose my revenge killing ability. Hidden Power Ice is for the dragons that roam the tier; he is the only way I can reliably deal with them after they have a DD up.

    Rotom-W takes the water attacks from the omnipresent rain teams, but he can only take so many repeated hits before I have to play more conservatively with him. This is what Celebi and Latias are for, but more on them later.

    [​IMG]
    Veckorial (Tyranitar) (F) @ Leftovers
    Veckorial (Tyranitar) (F) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 100 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Pursuit
    - Crunch
    - Superpower
    - Stone Edge

    ROLE: Special Tank, Trapper
    Suggested by ThePillsburyDoughBoy. She cant' take special hits as well as she used to, but she definitely generates much more of an offensive presence with CB equipped. Takes more prediciton to use properly and makes me predict more, but I'm enjoying this set so far.

    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 24 Atk / 164 SDef / 68 Spd
    Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Crunch
    - Fire Blast
    - Stone Edge[/B]
    ROLE: Special Tank

    The best I could ask for in the Special Defense department. She soaks up even SE Special Attacks with relative ease, only getting 2HKOed by the likes of Focus Blast coming off Hydreigon or LO Starmie's Hydro Pump... as long as sand is up. Regardless, Tyranitar is part of the integral core for my team, providing sand which wears down my opponents. You might think I am silly for not using any Pokemon that directly benefit from sand, but Tyranitar is much more than just for sand. Fire Blast roasts Steels like Skarm and Ferro who try to set up on me, Crunch is for a solid STAB option to use when the situation calls for it and Stone "WORST MOVE IN THE GAME" Edge is for the ubiquitous Ninetales, Volcarona and friends who love to switch in to take advantage of their sun.

    I used to use Pursuit, and then Ice Beam, then Pursuit again over Stone Edge for coverage and to deal with varied threats, but that job is better left to my other team members, I felt. Like Rotom, I need to keep Tyranitar alive for as long as I can, as she lacks proper recovery and I find myself switching her in a lot, both to keep their weather out of play if there is one and to soak up special attacks aimed at my others, especially Gliscor. Last, but absolutely not the least, she provides Stealth Rock to the team.

    I gave her that amount of speed to get the jump on Skarmory and Scizor, roasting them with Fire Blast before they can touch me. If Scizor somehow outspeeds her and KOs her with Superpower or something, well, at least that gives me lots of information on what kind of Scizor it is and I can play accordingly from there.


    [​IMG]
    Mack (Gliscor) (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Toxic
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Fang
    - Taunt

    ROLE: Physical Tank, Stallbreaker

    I don't think I can count the amount of times Gliscor has saved me from being swept. He takes almost all physical hits like they were nothing, especially fighting-type moves from the likes of Terrakion. He can't stand up to repeated assaults from them, but Latias and Celebi can enter the fray in stead of him if the situation calls for it.

    Toxic is the main way of taking on Bulky Water switch-ins. Gliscor can handle a single SE attack from the likes of Jellicent before having to switch out, but getting the Toxic on one of those Pokemon is crucial. I opted to have Taunt instead of SD/Protect so I can beat stall in general other Gliscor who think they can set up SD... the multitude of things my Gliscor can take on simply with Taunt is too good to pass up for one of the other moves.

    Obviously he can't take special hits coming from any special attacker worth their salt, but that's what Tyranitar, Celebi to a certain extent and Latias are around for.

    [​IMG]
    Maglev (Heatran) (M) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Stealth Rock
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    ROLE: Pivot

    So I finally decided on using Heatran over Celebi. He fufills the same role as she used to, except with the extra duty of getting up the rocks that my team needs to score those crucial 2HKOs. He also helps me revenge kill dragons with HP Ice in case Rotom-W goes down one way or another. Air Balloon gives me free switch-ins and helps me deal with opposing Heatran who want to jump me with Earth Power; I just can't let Heatran die so easily.

    Dicentra (Celebi) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 176 HP / 160 SAtk / 172 Spe
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Leaf Storm
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Earth Power
    - Recover

    ROLE: Pivot

    Like Gliscor, I wouldn't be able to take on as many things as I would without her around. Celebi provides me the support I need in case my team falls behind in momentum. The coverage here is mainly for hitting rain teams hard, but HP Fire is for hitting Scizor and Ferrothorn immediately.

    Earth Power deals a number to them too, 2HKOing Scizor after rocks, but I can't risk the opposing Steel-type doing something terrible and causing me to lose more momentum by taking that extra turn. Recover rounds off this set nicely and I am using it instead of U-turn because of the amount of damage she will take; 16% a turn with LO and Sandstorm will bring her down very quickly.

    To be very honest, I am still finicky about using Celebi or Heatran; both of them performed as well as each other, but I am not sure which to use. The Heatran that used to occupy this slot, fufilling the same role, is as follows;


    [​IMG]
    Nocosta (Latias) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Recover
    - Refresh

    ROLE: Boosting Special Sweeper

    The other Special Tank of my team, taking everything that Tyranitar can and threatening a sweep with Calm Minds. Alongside Scizor, Latias is one of the main Pokemon on my team that goes on to completely destroy the enemy team once they are weakened enough. Being naturally fast, she can outspeed all other dragons in the tier as long as they haven't got a DD boost yet and KO with a +1 Dragon Pulse most of the time. Dragonite is a little trickier to deal with, but that's why I try to keep rocks on the field when I see him in the Team Preview.

    Hidden Power Fire, again, roasts the omnipresent Scizor. I'm not sure why, but most of them switch into Latias expecting to go first, only to get OHKOed promptly by HP Fire and earning me a free kill. Recover is self-explainatory. Refresh helps me deal with Stall and Toxictoed more, allowing me to CM up alongside it and hit it with Dragon Pulse. I lose the ability to get the jump on Scizor, Forry and Ferro, but that I can hit them hard enough with my other team members.

    I went for 252HP to take as many hits as possible from both spectrums before going down. Keep in mind that she is my secondary switch into things like Terrakion and co. that can threaten to sweep as easily as Latias can. Definitely a keeper and one of the core members of my team.

    [​IMG]
    Thannie (Scizor) (F) @ Iron Plate
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 100 Atk / 160 SpD
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - U-Turn
    - Bullet Punch
    - Swords Dance
    - Roost

    ROLE: Boosting Physical Sweeper

    Scizor. That name alone describes alot, but mine is a little different from the rest. After much playtesting, I have found that this set fits my team much better than the run-of-the-mill Choice Band set does. Iron Plate boosts the power of Bullet Punch to strangely high heights, even though the boost is meager; I can muscle my way through rain teams with even only 2 boosts as long as they are weakened enough.

    I put Roost and U-Turn over Superpower and Bug Bite as suggested by Harsha, and I'm quite fond of how it's been performing so far.

    I have chosen to use Superpower instead of Brick Break to hit the inevitable Magnezone/Heatran on the switch as I bring in Scizor. She's a little tricky to handle as her bulk only goes so far, but once I get even as little as a single SD up, things are going down very quickly.

    I might not have mentioned this earlier, but she is also my secondary switch into Latios/Dragon-types in general. I can fake a Choice Band set from there by hitting with Bullet Punch, but I must really tread lightly to utilize her well. However, once she gets going (no lewd pls), she can tear through the enemy team very easily.

    Well, that's my team. I hope you had the patience to read the entire thing, and I'd appreciate your help with it!

  2. Yilx

    Yilx Sad
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    Threat List

    Jirachi: Water Pulse/Thunder/Sub/CM Variants, although rare, spell doom for me. As long as they keep rain up, he can keep on setting up and just eat me alive. Very tricky to deal with.

    Volcarona: If Tyranitar goes down, I don't have much that can stop a boosted Volcarona bar wearing it down slowly with Bullet Punch from Scizor or hoping Rotom-W is faster. This is the original reason why I kept Heatran over Celebi originally, but using Heatran opened up a bigger weakness to the above Jirachi and rain teams in general.

    Politoed: More of an annoyance that an actual threat; the reason why I had to use Celebi over Heatran for more consistency due to how popular Rain teams are. Depending on the set, I can play around with it to deal with it accordingly; Tyranitar can tank a Scald from bulky variants and hopefully not get burnt, 2HKOing at best with Stone Miss. More offensive variants have to be played with more carefully; I NEED sand up for Tyranitar to stand up against Specstoads.

    Dragonite: Hurricane variants are handled by Latias decently well, but the standard set is a pain to deal with. I need to get SR up no matter what, or I will have to rely on Rotom-W to KO it; even then, with Dragonite's natural bulk, it's shaky and I have to end up sacrificing 2 Pokemon just to take one down... if it dosen't completely destroy me first.

    Landorus: Scarved or Banded ones have to be locked into the wrong move at the wrong time to go down easily, but LO and Expert Belt variants are a little tougher to handle. Latias can take a HP Ice with more than enough to spare to Recover and continue setting up CM, but if Latias is weakened beforehand it spells my defeat pretty easily.
  3. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
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    Hey,

    Pretty cool balance team and spectacular art; I'll do my best to help you out! I'd start out with Celebi -- you have a good VoltTurn core and already have a good VoltTurn combatant in Latias, so I see no need to use Celebi on the team, especially if it aggravates a Pursuit weakness. You've wanted to use Heatran, and it seems like a pretty good replacement. A speedy Air Balloon variant should suit you fine, and it maintains offensive pressure while beating down Dragons locked into Outrage. With that in mind, your defensive core seems solid, as Gliscor, Heatran, and Latias can cover most of the major threats in the metagame. While I would suggest running Substitute on Gliscor over Taunt, you have no spinner, and there is simply not enough room on the team for one, so Taunt should suit you fine. Just make sure that if you happen to be matched up against a Rock Gem Terrakion, you won't lose your method of beating it, Gliscor.

    You seem content with your Scizor set, so I wouldn't say this is a mandatory change. However, in my opinion, you would benefit a lot from a Swords Dance variant with U-turn and Roost. With U-turn, you can retain momentum and bluff a Choice Band set even better, and with Roost, once you have revealed you are not a Choice Band variant, you can heal up and do even more damage later. I've had a lot of success with this variant and it seems as though you should be able to pull it off. Besides, Air Balloon Heatran is the perfect switch-in for Magnezone and opposing Heatran, so with U-turn and Heatran you have those covered fine (though Choice-locked Magnezone will require a bit of prediction to play around).

    Finally, if you ever find yourself being eaten by hazards, you can always opt for Starmie over the Heatran I just mentioned. While it doesn't seem as though it's too big of a problem, VoltTurn typically enjoys having hazards off the field, and this also makes walling a hell of a lot easier.

    sets (open)
    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power Ice
    - Toxic

    the next two are more of optional changes, but I included them just in case you wanted to try them out

    [​IMG]
    Scizor @ Iron Plate
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 100 Atk / 160 SpD
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    - Swords Dance
    - Roost
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-turn

    [​IMG]
    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 248 HP / 36 SpA / 224 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Scald
    - Psyshock
    - Recover

    Cool team, and good luck. I hope I helped!
  4. Yilx

    Yilx Sad
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    Thanks for the fast rate, Harsha! I'll give the new Scizor set a try and give Starmie a shot as the set you gave seems to be exactly what I was looking for.

    UPDATE: Using the suggested Scizor set and Heatran right now. It has been more consistent than Starmie so far; as you said, I don't really need to utilize spin very often as my team does not particularly mind rocks on the field. I'll miss Bug Bite, but U-turn and Roost provide utility that Bug Bite will never do.
  5. Yilx

    Yilx Sad
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    Here you go;

    Show Hide

    Veckorial (Tyranitar) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 24 Atk / 152 SDef / 80 Spd
    Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Crunch
    - Fire Blast
    - Stone Edge

    Cannon (Rotom-W) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Trick
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Nocosta (Latias) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Recover
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Mack (Gliscor) (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Toxic
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Fang
    - Taunt

    Thannie (Scizor) (F) @ Iron Plate
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 100 Atk / 160 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - U-turn
    - Bullet Punch
    - Swords Dance
    - Roost

    Maglev (Heatran) (M) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Toxic
    - Hidden Power [Ice]


    Dicentra (Celebi) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 176 HP / 160 SAtk / 172 Spe
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Leaf Storm
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Earth Power
    - Recover

    and celebi if you decide to give her a try
  6. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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    This is a pretty solid team no doubt. One suggestion I do have is to if/when you run Celebi instead of Heatran, running the standard choice band Scizor but with quick attack instead of pursuit which can allow you to check Volcarona after a hit of stealth rock.

    Overall though, I think Heatran may be a better choice as you cover almost everything special outside of Volcarona with Latias / Tyranitar / Scizor, so you might as well counter it.
  7. tml

    tml

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    Ok so I'll rate it. If you use Heatran you just aswell give it Stealth Rock as this allows you to give Tyranitar another move such as Pursuit. In my opinion Heatran is a more effective stealth rocker because it has more chances to switch in especially with the Air Balloon. Pursuit would also benefit you on Tyranitar when matched up with Latios. Even if TTar can take the hits from Latios, it wont be able to deal damage to it if you dont have Pursuit and eventually after continually switching in to Latios and taking stealth rock damage, TTar will be gone and Latios can do alot of damage to your team and your only chance is a speed tie with Latias.

    So yes I do agree with Harsha that Heatran would be of Greater benefit than Celebi and here is a sum up of the changes:
    Show Hide
    Replace Celebi With Heatran
    Use Stealth Rock on Heatran and give Tyranitar Pursuit.


    Hope this helped, and excellent artwork. Good Luck.
  8. Yilx

    Yilx Sad
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  9. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown in other words...
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    Hey Yilx,

    This team looks really solid already so there aren't many things you should change. On your Heatran/Celebi doubt, I would recommend using Heatran, as you can already deal with Rain teams fine with Latias and Rotom, while Volcarona is almost an instant lose if you aren't using Heatran. Speaking about Heatran, you should try either a Timid Nature on it or Roar as with them you can either Toxic Substitute Gyarados (or phaze it) to prevent it from setting up, as it can sometimes beat Rotom-W thanks to Substitute, especially if it switchs in when rain isn't up. Hope I helped!
  10. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
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    Alright so since my post got deleted I am going to have to make this one.

    I think you are justified with your use of Celebi. When I put Heatran on the team over Celebi I had a huge problem with bulky waters, especially Gastrodon. Gastrodon could Toxic Latias and burn the physical attackers, making it almost impossible to touch. So I took this team in a different direction.

    The first thing I did was I put Refresh on Latias over Hidden Power Fire. Refresh gives your team a might better chance against bulky waters and it can handle stall pretty well too. It gives you an answer to status users that could otherwise hurt Gliscor. It also means Rotom-W can't cripple it in any way.

    When using the Gliscor set I found it Subpar and it couldn't handle repeated switchin's to Terrakion. However since Latias took over the stall breaking role with Refresh I decided to switch it to the SubToxic set. SubToxic handles Conkeldurr nicely (which would otherwise gives this team problems) and Terrakion even better. SubToxic also let's you scout for Rotom-W's pesky Volt-Switch and Landorus' HP Ice.

    I thought your TTar set was going all over the place, but I know you wanted to retain a special sponge. Sp. Def Heatran could take up that role quite nicely, still annoy sun teams, and handle SR. It also could handle your Volcarona issues which you seemed to have stressed. Latias+Heatran will do a lot of work against sun teams.

    Lastly, with the Volt-Switch, U-turn combo going on I felt like it was the perfect opportunity to introduce a choiced, hard-hitter to the team. A choiced user could be used to soften up (or even eliminate) those Steel types that would get in both Scizor's and Latias' way. I was going to put CB Haxorus in there (I don't like SR weak choiced users) but it would give you a weakness to Latios and it isn't bulky in any capacity as a choiced user (even Terrakion utilizes some sort of bulk). Sand seemed important to you and it was a sin to ignore Ttar's large attack stat, so I slapped a Choice Band on him. Choice Band Tyranitar could still be used to trap and alleviate any Latios problems so he stayed. You can move those HP EV's into special defense but I don't think it is worth it (big debate in qc over it here).

    Changes (open)

    Refresh>HP Fire
    Subsitute+Protect>Ice Fang and Taunt

    Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 156 SDef / 100 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Lava Plume
    - Stealth Rock
    - Roar
    - Protect

    Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 100 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Stone Edge
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower


    Good luck. Very nice art btw! Why shiny scizor with blue >_>?
  11. Gamester

    Gamester

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    Hey Yilx I love your art and wish you did the art for my rmt *_*

    On to the team I'm going to suggest shaymin over celebi cause it's what I use and I'm bias 8D But no seriously if you're not running psychic on celebi then shaymin is a baller choice because although you lose your 3rd fighting resist x.x you also don't have to fear ttar as much or lando's u-turns so it overall performs better against volt-turn running the same coverage moves. Also my bias makes me hate Heatran :|

    I'd really suggest a different scizor set I'm just not feeling your current set as scizor is your only dragon resist and it gets 2hko'd by banded outrage after rocks. I'd suggest adding roost for longevity especially since you lack pursuit on tyranitar so I imagine specs latios being able to freely spam draco's.

    and on that topic I'm suggesting pursuit over stone edge so you can end latios's life ._.

    as for gliscor I would suggest committing to either a taunt Sdance set Or Toxic/Protect and either u-turn or substitute. Heck maybe even try Toxic/Sub/Eq/Baton Pass and then you can give Scizor and Latios an easy way to set up. Going to Scizor for ice moves and Latios for water moves depending on what you're predicting

    Maybe all of those were terrible suggestions but I hope you take them and good luck with the team. Once again I love the art :)
  12. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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    I have to support PDB's refresh suggestion, it seems like it would really help vs Gastrodon and defensive Politoed. Heatran over tyranitar seems like an interesting suggestion, but I honestly don't think its worth losing sand.
  13. Doughboy

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    He isn't losing sand only the movesets were changed
  14. Yilx

    Yilx Sad
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    Wow, thanks for the reviews!

    I'll try out the changes suggested by PDB and get back to you on the performance!

    I'm a little worried about not getting the jump on Scizor and Ferro anymore with the loss of HP Fire on Latias, but I think that just means I have to play differently instead. Thanks for the rates, again!]

    Small Update: Might be just my playing style, but Gliscor seems to have lost his ability to deal with other Gliscor and Skarm. Lack of lefties on T-tar kinda hurts too and I have to rely on much more prediction in general. Will update more later.

    Gamester: lol you used my art anyway
  15. Yilx

    Yilx Sad
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    Bump with an update.

    Used the Old Heatran, Refresh Latias, Taunt Gliscor together with CBtar. I lose on some special tankiness, but this seems to be working the best so far. Thanks everyone again for all the help. CBtar rips holes in things it shouldn't be and I'm loving it.
  16. Nelson

    Nelson Young, Wild & Free

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    Timid nature with 252 ev in speed is quiet stupid imo as it's only utility is to get a tie with other lati@s/gengar.

    Change it to Bold full hp/def with enough speed to outspend dragonite. This spread allows you to take quiet well pursuit from other ttars which won't have any problems to trap you.

    Actually, your team looks quite similar to my old rmt, volt urn is big problem for you as latias is i guess your main switch to rotom which means that it will be dead after being trapped by either tar or zor.

    To remain to this, you should try again celebi (with u-turn) over heatran. This done, latias won't have all the pressure of volt urn on her and could centralize itself over her main duty which is imo, to counter sun teams.
  17. Yilx

    Yilx Sad
    is an Artistis a Smogon IRC AOP

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    Latias, T-tar and my own Rotom are my main switch-ins to it. I guess you have a point here, but won't using Celebi compound the U-Turn weakness more, unless I zip out of there as soon as Scizor/Landy/etc comes in?

    UPDATE: I can do the EV changes on Latias, but not tran->celebi.
  18. Yilx

    Yilx Sad
    is an Artistis a Smogon IRC AOP

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    Another update. After laddering a bit more, I realized CBtar seems to fail to live up to standard most of the time; despite it's bulk, I can hardly switch it in on anything without taking tons of damage.
  19. bubbly

    bubbly

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    Quick note: if you like CB Tar but want some extra bulk then just run something like 252 HP / 80 Atk / 176 SpDef Adamant. I'm not convinced you need it though; Scizor and Heatran together at least check everything that Tar can. I do see the current team having a heap of problems with Specs or LO Latios that just spam Surf, since everything you have which can beat it 1 on 1 is hit for an easy 2HKO. I don't have the time right now to figure out what you can do; off the top of my head, ScarfTar > CBTar, or else CBStoutland > Scizor, would work okay.

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