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BW OU no Rain, no Gain

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by McMeghan, Sep 14, 2011.

  1. McMeghan

    McMeghan Dreamcatcher
    is a Tournament Directoris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winneris the Smogon Tour Season 14 Champion
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    Joined:
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    Messages:
    1,762
    ~ no Rain, no Gain ~
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Introduction

    Everything started with the last WCup we had on Smogon. The Benelux team was formed and as a member, I needed to build a great team to make the best out of the tournament.

    I wanted something that corresponds to my playstyle in BW OU. I really like to play Rain, particulary offensively. Also, I really like to maintain momentum during a game and I want to impose my rhythm on the opponent. I'm a huge fan of Toxicroak in Rain. He has a lot of opportunities to set-up, has a great typing (on the offensive and the defensive side), i used to play the one with bulk up and substitute until I one day met Mynism, a great member of our benelux team. He told me that Toxicroak with Sword Dance, a Life Orb and Ice Punch would be a beast in the current metagame filled with Gliscor and he hits really hard with Cross Chop and Ice Punch, so i gave it a try. This thing was just amazing. And that's how i found my base to build a team around. Also, i wanted to use a Rain team where Tyranitar can't just come in on any Pokemon to put the Sand up.

    Finally, i ended with the team you can see above. I got a 3-0 score in Wcup (unfortunatly, Benelux didn't get to Round 2). I used it in a lot of Smogon OU Tournaments (Crew, No Johns, Team Trials, etc...) and it performed really well against great opponents (particulary in Crew). Also, I sent it to some people here who used the team in some Tourneys (Earthworm in Wcup, Bloo in Crew for example) and they told me the team was really great and they liked playing it with success.

    The team

    [​IMG]

    Politoed (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 236 HP / 252 SAtk / 20 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Focus Blast​

    Since it's a Rain Team, it seems quite logical to use Politoed in it. SpecsToed is a beast, and I wanted him because I can run a bulky spread on it, which is really great to keep it alive as long as possible to win the weather war. Also, SpecsToed was needed because i wanted momentum, and with his power, he can make some holes in the opposing team if he doesn't have any water-imminuties or solid water-resistance. I don't hesistate to double switch with him a lot (unless there are Rocks on my side of the field) just to put the rain up or because I want the momentum, so I send it on the field to frighten the opposing mon. Depending on the opponent's team, i could play more risky with Politoed since all my team member are not ultra rain-dependant. When there are no more water-immunities on the opposing team or if the water-resistants are weakened, it's Pump Time.

    Regarding to the moveset, it's pretty classic. I use Focus Blast for Ferrothorn and Tyranitar, and Hidden Power Grass is needed to hit Jellicent and Gastrodon hard enough. I put 20 EV's in spd because i wanted to outspeed other Politoed and Scizor. He could be the lead against sandstorm teams if I don't see any Rotom-W in it. He is generally the lead against Sun Teams thanks to his low speed comparing to Ninetails and the pressure he puts on those team.

    [​IMG]

    Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 140 HP / 228 SAtk / 140 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Trick
    - Hydro Pump
    - Volt Switch​

    I think everyone knows how awesome Rotom-W is this gen, with its typing and its power. Rotom-W is a key member of the team. First of all, he's the choice scarfer of the team, so the main Revenge Killer against things like Landorus, Thundurus, Tornadus, Terrakion, Excadrill, etc. HydroPump under Rain with Scarf makes Rotom-W an awesome sweeper when the weather war is won and when the water-imminuties/resistants are down/weakened.

    I said i wanted momentum in the team, and Rotom-W provides me what i want. With Volt Switch, i can grab momentum and deal some damage. it makes a good core with Scizor (weakness coverage/threat covered) and i can abuse the duo Scizor/Rotom-W to keep the momentum, deal some damage and find a way to set up with Thundurus or Toxicroak.

    Regarding to the moveset, I needed HP Ice to kill the strong CB Dragon who are locked into Outrage, especially since Thundurus hasn't got that move. Also, it's a 100% accurate move against Gliscor/Landorus. It also does some damage to Celebi. Trick is used to dump on some mon like Ferrothorn, Gastrodon or even Jellicent if it comes in on a predicted hydropump. Moreover, it helps me to have a setup fodder with Toxicroak/Thundurus.

    Regarding the spread, I needed a good bulk on Rotom-W since it's a good check to a lot of threats to the team. It reaches 363 with the scarf, which allows it to outspeed Starmie and all the other pokemon who are under its speed tier. It provides me a lot of bulk, and it has saved me a lot of times.

    [​IMG]

    Scizor (F) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 148 HP / 252 Atk / 96 SDef / 12 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-turn
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower​

    The good old Scizor, still as useful in Gen5 as it was before. Scizor was an obvious choice to the team. It keeps the momentum with U-Turn and forms an awesome scouting core with Rotom-W. These two guys are awesome together, and I can just spam u-turn/volt-switch against some team until I find a way to set up a mon or something else. I use Scizor because it's great against some antiRain-mon like Latias or Celebi (but I have to be careful with HP Fire). Also, Scizor is a Steel Pokemon, and I wanted at least two Steel to have something good against those pesky dragon teams. Moreover, Scizor is very useful because of its Bullet Punch which helps me finish off some things when they are weak enough (Dragons, Venusaur, Mamoswine, Thundurus, Landorus). Pursuit is a key-move for the team, allowing me to remove Celebi (Rain must be up), Latias and Latios and thus opening the way for Thundurus. Also, I can Pursuit Jellicent to death if I have the opportunity since Pringles is one hell of a bitch to the team.

    I put some EVs in speed to outspeed other Scizor and Superpower them to death (they are annoying to Croak). I also put more Special Defense bulk because he has to remove the Lati@s with efficiency. It also helps against Specially Defensive Celebi. I'm still considering putting more EV's in Spd to reach 190. I would outspeed Skarmory and especially TauntJellicent.

    I'm still hesitating to use Quick Attack somewhere to have a reliable RK move against Volcarona who is also a huge threat to the team.

    [​IMG]

    Ferrothorn (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 188 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes
    - Thunder Wave
    - Power Whip​

    Yeah, Ferrothorn, one of the most useful 5th Gen pokemon in the metagame. Well, Ferrothorn fits perfectly in the team. Why ? I needed a generic wall that provides me with the ability to support the team and taking some hard hits in thebeginning of the game. With its steel typing, I have my second Dragon-resistance, something I wanted. So, Ferrothorn is used to put Stealth Rock on the opposite field. The sooner they are put up, the better because with SR up, I can use Rotom-W and Scizor with a great efficiency. They force the opponent to switch a lot, taking hits, and it could be a great way to weaken the opponent's team with Hazard damage + Uturn/Vswitch. Also, Ferrothorn is a switch to some threats like Starmie or Rotom-W, and it provides me the Electric-resistance I needed. Also, it can cripple some switch-ins with T-wave, which is pretty great to the team since Politoed, Scizor and Toxicroak aren't that fast.

    Ferrothorn is generally the pokemon I sacrifice in middle/late game to have a free switch-in since its role is to take hits at the start of the battle. I put Spikes because its job is to help Scizor and Rotom-W doing their job, and one layer of Spikes+SR is just awesome with the scoutcore. Also, it's a good move to use against those SubChargebeam Magnezone. Power Whip is the move I chose to deal some damage to Starmie, Jellicent and Rotom-W. Rotom-W is here to take care of the Dragons with HP Ice, so GyroBall isn't a must-have move.

    [​IMG]

    Thundurus (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Nasty Plot
    - Focus Blast
    - Substitute
    - Thunder​

    Thundurus is one of the greatest sweepers we can use in the game, especially in a Rain Team. So Thundurus is usually my mid-game Sweeper. He can use Nasty Plot quite easily, and Substitute is there to help it set up. It's a really good move to use against Choice-Users, status moves or Sucker Punch, it gives me the opportunity to scout the choiced move or to start setting up/attacking behind the Sub. Also, it could be used against paralyzed mon or confused ones to have a free turn.

    As I already said before, Thundurus is generally my mid-game sweeper, he comes after Rotom-W/Scizor and their ability to deal some damage with SR on the field. Since I'm not using HP Ice, I rely on Scizor to kill the Lati@s to open the path of destruction (lol). Thunder is used because the power is greatly appreciated against Celebi without Psychic, Scizor or some other mon who isn't weak to Electric or Fight. Speaking of which, Focus Blast, with Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes on the field, is a clean 2HKO on Gastrodon at +2. Also, Sub is useful against Scarf Landorus to scout which move he will be using, and it's funnier when my opponent predicts the switch out with U-Turn.

    Of course Thundurus could be my late game sweeper depending on the opposite team or how the game was played.

    Even if Sub is an awesome move on him (and easy to hide), I sometimes really miss Hp Ice or even Thunder-Wave, and I'm still considering these options.

    [​IMG]

    Toxicroak (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Dry Skin
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Cross Chop
    - Ice Punch
    - Sucker Punch​

    Here we are, the key member of this team, the base of the build, the MVP of most of my games. This Toxicroakis just a deadly sweeper. Depending on the opposite team, he can do his job at the beginning, the middle or the end of the battle. Toxicroak performs really well against TSS and Rain, he's my main answer against Stall team without Quagsire or Jellicent. He is able to 6-0 RainStall teams quite easily. Even in the Sun, his Sucker Punch at +2 is really useful. By the way, Toxicroak removes Toxic Spikes from my side of the field, which is very helpful for Politoed.

    Toxicroak has a lot of set-up fodder (water move, Virizion, Politoed, Ferrothorn, Conkeldurr, Foretress, Breloom, Tentacruel, Recover Celebi) and it's really easy for him to Swords Dance. He has the ability to take a U-Turn and check some mon like ScarfTerrakion, Virizion, Breloom who would otherwise be a huge pain.Life Orb is the best item we can use with it since Dry Skin provides a 12% recovery every turn, not allowing the opponent to try hard prediction to make you kill yourself with life orb damage. Also, it's a good recovery during the setup. Its coverage, Ice/Fight/Dark, is just perfect in the current metagame, allowing to hit almost everyone for at least neutral damage. Sucker Punch acts as a pseudo-priority move, allowing him not to be RK'd by some mon like Tornadus, Thundurus, Starmie or Latios.

    Finally, here are some damage calc to show you how strong Toxicroak is when it's at +2.

    Show Hide
    CC vs. Politoed 252 HP/0 Def neutral nature : 133-157%
    CC vs. RotomW 148 HP/0 Def nneutral nature : 139-164%
    CC vs. Jirachi 252 HP/0 Def neutral nature : 100-118%
    CC vs. Skarmory 252 HP/252 Def nature +def : 69-81%
    CC vs. Skarmory 252 HP/0 Def neutral nature : 90-106%
    CC vs. Conkeldurr120 HP/0 Def neutral nature (+1 Def) : 74-87%
    CC vs. Foretress 252 HP/252 def nature +def : 69-82%
    CC vs. Hipowdown 252 HP/252 def nature +def : 62-73%

    IcePunch vs. Gliscor 252 HP/184 Def nature +def : 149-176%
    IcePunch vs. Dragonite 0 HP/0 Def neutral nature : 131-154% (Multiscale considered)
    IcePunch vs. Dragonite 252 HP/0 Def neutral nature : 109-121% (Multiscale considered)
    IcePunch vs. Latias 252 HP/0 Def neutral nature : 121-143%

    Sucker Punch vs. Politoed 4 HP/0 Def neutral nature : 85-100%
    Sucker Punch vs. Latios 4 HP/0 Def neutral nature : 172-202%
    Sucker Punch vs. RotomW 0 HP/0 Def neutral nature : 84-99%
    Sucker Punch vs. Thundurus/Tornauds 0 HP/0 Def neutral nature : 96-113%
    Sucker Punch vs. Excadrill 0 HP/0 Def neutral nature : 45-53%
    Sucker Punch vs. Jirachi 0 HP/0 Def neutral nature : 63-74%
    Sucker Punch vs. Reuniclus 252 HP/0 Def neutral nature : 128-151%
    Sucker Punch vs. Reuniclus 252 HP/252 Def nature +def: 88-104%
    Sucker Punch vs. Volcarona 0 HP/0 Def neutral nature : 98-116%
    Sucker Punch vs. Ninetales 252 HP/0 Def neutral nature : 78-92%
    Sucker Punch vs. Salamence 0 HP/0 Def neutral nature : 58-64% (Intimidate considered)
    Sucker Punch vs. Celebi 252 HP/0 Def neutral nature : 106-125%
    Sucker Punch vs. Venusaur 0 HP/0 Def neutral nature : 83-98%


    Of course again, Toxicroak may be really useful even without a Sword Dance since he's hitting hard with a 342 attack + Life Orb. Surely one of my favorite mon to use.

    Conclusion

    I think I already said all I wanted. This is actually the best BW OU team I made, and I had some really great battles with it. I used it with some success, and some people had too, which is a good thing (Earthworm in Wcop final). Feel free to use it if you want, and i'm still open to suggestions to make it better ! It's a really fun team to use if you like to keep the momentum and have the upper hand during the battle.

    Here is the Importable :
    Show Hide
    Politoed (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 236 HP / 252 SAtk / 20 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Focus Blast

    Thundurus (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Nasty Plot
    - Focus Blast
    - Substitute
    - Thunder

    Toxicroak (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Dry Skin
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Cross Chop
    - Ice Punch
    - Sucker Punch

    Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 140 HP / 228 SAtk / 140 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Trick
    - Hydro Pump
    - Volt Switch

    Scizor (F) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 148 HP / 252 Atk / 96 SDef / 12 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-turn
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower

    Ferrothorn (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 188 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes
    - Thunder Wave
    - Power Whip


    Threatlist

    [​IMG] Dugtrio isn't a big deal at all, but it's usally paired with Ninetales, and i have to play very carefully with Politoed because if i lose the weather war against sun team, Toxicroak, Rotom-W and Thundurus will be in big trouble.

    [​IMG] Fortunately, Zapdos isn't common in OU, but this thing has the arsenal to make me cry (Electric/Fire/Ice) and I have to pivot with Ferrothorn and Rotom-W to hit it hard.

    [​IMG] Dragonite is really strong in Gen5, and I have to keep the weather up to switch in Ferrothorn safely, the Choice band version is annoying because of ExtremeSpeed (thankfully, i can RK him if it's locked on Outrage). Dragon Dance versions are also annoying because they don't have the lock problem, and they outspeed Rotom at +1. I try to not let them set-up and Ferrothorn + Scizor are there to paralyse/bullet punch them.

    [​IMG] Mew Stallbreaker is annoying since it can counter Toxicroak very well and it can cripple Scizor. But Rotom-W and Politoed hit it too hard under rain, Thundurus is good against it too.

    [​IMG] Quagsire isn't a big deal since Ferrothorn/Toed/Rotom performs well against it, but it's a pain for Croak, so i have to weaken him enough before the Croak Sweep.

    [​IMG] The only version of Celebi that is dangerous is a Psychic/Giga Drain/HP Fire version since this thing can just break me appart if it sets up. Thanksfully, he doesn't have any recovery move, and Sucker Punch+Bullet Punch+Hp Ice are there to prevent being 6-0'd.

    [​IMG] Salamence has Fire Blast, and that makes it a threat for the team since I have no free switch in for it. But with some prediction, I can handle it (Ferrothorn/Scizor/Rotom-W). Its intimidate is annoying to Croak.

    [​IMG] Magnezone is obviously mentioned because he can trap Scizor and Ferrothorn. Subchargebeam variant kills 2 pokemon when they switch into Ferrothorn.

    [​IMG] Jellicent is surely THE threat to my team. He can stop Politoed, Ferrothorn, Croak and Scizor with Will-o-Wisp and Taunt, he's the worst thing I have to face since it completly stops Croak and he can handle 2/3 of my team. I have to Pursuit/Volt-Switch it or use it as a Thundurus Setup folder.

    [​IMG] Mienshao hits really hard with Hi Jump Kick and could kick my ass because Toxicroak takes a lot of damage from this move. A lot of members of the team can kill it, but as a lead, he's annoying.

    [​IMG] Same as Salamance, Hydreigon has Fire Blast and becomes a threat to the team. Moreover, he has a resistance to Sucker Punch, so I have to predict well and check it with Scizor/Rotom-W/Thundurus/Ferrothorn.

    [​IMG] As Jellicent, Volcarona is surely the second main threat to the team. His typing allows him to check Ferrothorn, Toxicroak and Scizor. Sub variant are a real pain in the ass since Ferrothorn can't cripple them. I have to keep SR on the field and RK him with Bullet Punch/Sucker Punch/Rotom-W if it has sustained enough damage. Also, this bug forces me to send Politoed if the sun is up, and the frog is gonna take a bug buzz in the face.

    [​IMG] Terrakion is really a pain in the ass in his Choice Band variant (and only this one) because he is able to 2KO Toxicroak with Close Combat, and I have no free switch-ins against him. So I have to force him to come at the end of the battle, where he isn't that deadly because Thundurus/Scizor/Rotom-W are able to check it.

    [​IMG] And finally, Landorus, the sub variants are dangerous because they can deal some damage on all the members of my team. Also, his bulk stops Croak on its way if the genie isn't weakened enough. I have to keep the rain on the field because in Sand Storm, he's deadly. Scarf variant are troublesome too but Scizor+Ferrothorn+Rotom-W can take care of the sand pokemon (still have to keep Rain Up).

    Note : Huge thanks to SpoeMeister and Bluewind who helped me as grammar checker, since it's not my mother language.
  2. Delko

    Delko was a tab-made man
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
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    Excellent team Ro

    Not much to suggest since this team is already pretty solid, but whenever I used this team I preferred Thunderbolt over Thunder on Thunderus, if you fail to control the weather you don't want to rely on a 50% accurate move. Thunderbolt can't miss and after a NP boost or 2 you won't loose out on any ko anyway.
  3. Vitalise

    Vitalise

    Joined:
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    really Soild team you got there, 1+ CM Virizion can deal some heavy damage to your team if it gets a free turn to set up, A SpDef Rachi could fit into that team to wall the fuck out of it and a bit of wish support is good, seeing that your team is weak to entry hazards and no spinner, other then that nice team. :)
  4. -Manu-

    -Manu-

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    This is the most competitive team I've ever seen and I could play . So I wanted to be the first French who comment it . GG Bro'
  5. Thatsjustpeachy

    Thatsjustpeachy smogon的行货动物学者
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

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    Very good team you have here but I've already seen alot of rain+ferro+rotomsciz cores on ladder and it is very easy to lose the weather It's really effective but you have to be careful when others get hazards off beacause your team looks like or could get worn down quickly. I would consider a rapid spin lo starmie or 3attack+rApidspin starmie which will probably hit just as hard as thunderus and allow you to uturn/switch spam longer.
  6. Chieliee

    Chieliee

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    The best team in the current OU metagame does not need any changes
    (I might have exaggarated slightly)
  7. HBK

    HBK

    Joined:
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    Superb team Bro.I'd like to suggest an evspread of 252 Hp 252 Spdef Adamant on scizor.This helps you kill hp fire celebi and latios without losing the huge amount of health it will by switching in with your current evspread.Also maybe 252 Spe and 252Spa on your rotom? It'll help against set up sweepers.Good luck!
  8. H-C

    H-C

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Hey dude, really nice & solid team you have here.

    I don't see lots of changes to do. Perhaps try thunderbolt over Thunder if the rain isn't here, it can save you of a fuc**** miss.

    GJ for this really nice team.
  9. Bluewind

    Bluewind My appearance, ability, and awesomeness strike fea
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    This team is just amazing and I really can't recommend much to be honest. All that should be changed imo is that Rotom's speed could be bumped to 216 EVs, as it allows you to outpace Adamant Gyarados and Dragonite after a Dragon Dance. Both have many chances of setting up with so many choiced Pokemon (and seriously Dragonite just sets up on anything >.>), so I can see the extra Speed really helping you out. Great job.
  10. IronBullet93

    IronBullet93 Sitting on a cornflake waiting for the van to come
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    Hey,

    Yeah this is an incredible team with not much scope for change since it's pretty much reached the height of its potential. Volcarona can sweep you even under rain which makes it the no. 1 threat to this team. A possible change you could consider would be to make Thundurus a support variant. I find that Thundurus can't really sweep without the coverage provided by HP Ice, since now it can't do much against the likes of Celebi, Virizion and Gliscor. Perhaps you would consider a moveset of Thunder Wave | Thunder | Grass Knot | Taunt which still beats Gastrodon fairly easily and makes a decent check to Volcarona with Prankster since it can Thunder Wave it to make it easy pickings for your other Pokemon. Taunt is just all around useful to prevent Blissey from recovering off damage or dangerous sweepers like Virizion/Celebi from setting up.

    For other options, the alternative spread for Rotom-W suggested by Bluewind can definitely help you out. Also transfer the HP EVs on Thundurus into one of your defenses for 299 HP instead of 300. Congrats and good luck!
  11. ala

    ala
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Hey dude, nice team but one thing I noticed cause my rain team has a similar problem, it seems to have an excadrill weakness since nothing can switch in and if toed dies ur pretty boned. Don't really have a solution without messing up your team, but keeping the rain up is crucial to beating that stupid mole. Don't think your priority KOs it so just be careful, k? ;)

    Nice team I'm gonna steal it :D
  12. Smith

    Smith is a 90's bitch
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Hey good team! I don't have much time but I'll throw you a quick rate. SD Lucario can set up pretty easily on toed or rotom locked into the wrong move and promptly 6-0 you. I'm also not sure how you beat Bulk Up Toxicroak, setting up easily on Toed and defeating the rest of your team pretty easily. Again, it's hard not to patch this up without fucking up your synergy (I'd love to stick a Gliscor in somewhere) but perhaps the best solution would be to use Perish Song on Toed over one of your other moves- it keeps Toxicroak from sweeping you as well as keeping Luke from setting up. That's obviously a terrible way of patching up Lucario so maybe Thunder Wave over Substitute would help as well- with Prankster you should outspeed and help with picking off the rest of his team. That's all I have, really good team!
  13. Zephyr

    Zephyr Life Stream
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    Really great team man. Kudos. I've had the opportunity to play around with it, I've played against it, and I've watched it in action as a spectator. There is obviously some small problems, but its BW OU...pick your weakness....I do second Bluewind's suggestion though, It's extra coverage that the HP difference really isn't being overly affected by.
  14. Immoral Wombat

    Immoral Wombat

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    Congratutations on finding an RMT title pun that has not been used already. Anyway, I suspect your team is pretty weak to sun sweepers (mostly Sludge Bomb/Energy Ball/HP Fire/Growth Venusaur and Power Whip/Rock Slide/HP Fire/Growth Tangrowth). Your only shot at the bulkier ones is, I asume, sacrificing Politoad for rain and then revenge killing it with something.

    An easy solution to this is giving Thundurus Thunder Wave, preferably over Substitute. A more effective one would be taking CBDragonite over CBScizor. It's priority is only slightly less powerfull (80 BP off 134 atk vs. 90 BP off 130 atk), but it's typing would help your team a lot against sun.
  15. McMeghan

    McMeghan Dreamcatcher
    is a Tournament Directoris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winneris the Smogon Tour Season 14 Champion
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    Thanks everyone to could give me some advice and already rate the team !

    Yeah i miss sometimes thunderbolt, and i even use it when i'm not too confident about the weather war.
    Toxicroak has a 12% recovery each turn and deal hard damage with Ice Punch (and he doesn't fear at all the virizion move). Also, Scizor can come and U-Turn or Bullet Punch if Virizion is setup.
    Yes, it's a good proposition, but without the dual typing of Thundurus, Celebi would be really awful to face (Thunder still deal a good amount of damage on the offensive version).
    Since Scizor doesn't take a lot of physical hit, i guess i could afford more Sp.Def on it (and even a higher speed than Jellicent). This would help be better against Celebi and the Lati@s. Thanks.
    I really find the bulk on Rotom-W useful, it saves me a couple of time, and it helps against landorus and excadrill. But i still like your proposition since Dragonite DD is very bitchy to the team, and a good RK against it would be useful. Noted !
    Yeah, i still considering it, T-Wave Prankster would be REALLY useful against a lot of thread for the team (Volcarona or Chlorophyll Sweeper for example). Do you think i could run T-Wave and Nasty Plot ? Thundurus usually attracts the opposing scarfer, and it could T-wave it after a kill. Anyways, thx for the useful advice.
    Fornatunatly, Lucario is pretty rare in the metagame right now, but yeah this thing could be really deadly (even Thundurs couldn't do anything, ExtremeSpd is faster than T-Wave). Toxicroak (the BU one) take a really hard hit against my Toxicroak, Ice Punch is deadly at +2 (even if the opposing Croak is at +1). Also, Thundurus can sub during the Sucker Punch to Thunder it after.
    Yeah, CBNite would be a great for the team (moreover, it could check Celebi and Volcarona) and I already thought about it, but removing Scizor would break the VoltSwitch/Uturn strategy which is so useful to keep the momentum and dealing some damage before the Thundurus/Croak sweep.
    You are right again, they are pesky, but Sucker Punch + Bullet Punch check them. It's still painfull to face them, and i have to be very careful to not let set up, and try to bring the RK with some good (and riskly) switch if they are boosted. Again, T-Wave on Thundurus would help me here.

    Thx again !
  16. San_Pellegrino

    San_Pellegrino the eternal dreamer
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    Hi,

    This is a really solid team you've made, and most of the raters above have really suggested the bulk of the important things already. An advantage to using the support Thunderus IB93 suggested in addition to the ones he stated are that it will help you prevent stall from setting up hazards on you, which is very bad for you since you don't have a spinner, and don't have recovery on Politoed, who is essential to the success of your team, especially in a more so weather-based metagame as BW OU. The set he suggest is ideal, but I have a different EV spread in mind. I would use 28 HP / 252 SpAtk / 228 Spe which lets you outspeed Terrakion and some slow dragon dancers. I find the extra speed on Thundurus to be redundant since it won't be staying in on much Latios or Latias, and can just status or taunt faster pokemon. Another Ev Spread to consider is 80 HP / 252 SpAtk / 176 Spe, which lets you outspeed Landorus and slower dragon dancers. It is really your choice between bulk and speed. Either way you should be able to handle Celebi / Virizion. A good team made by great Benelux players!
  17. Tobes

    Tobes Woo-hoo, woo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo!
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    This a pretty cool team McMeghan. Your weakness to SD Lucario is obviously your most pressing problem atm. This isn't a perfect fix, but I think this should help to patch up the weakness when used over Rotom-W.

    Gyarados @ Choice Scarf
    Intimidate
    Adamant 0/252/4/0/0/252
    - Waterfall
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Fang
    - Stone Edge / Bounce

    You lose out on Trick and Volt Switch, but after Intimidate +1 Adamant Lucario falls just short of an OHKO after SR with ExtremeSpeed, meaning Gyara can deal with it. It's definitely not the ideal answer, but given that making too many changes will mess severely with your synergy it seems to be the best option to me.
  18. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    I agree with IB93 - Thundurus without HP Ice just has a hard time sweeping. No Rapid Spin support also hurts, since I am thinking your type of Thundurus may switch out often, due to lack of coverage.

    Rather than trying to make Thundurus work, I'd probably focus on making SpecsToed and ScarfRotom do the heavy punching, followed by Toxicroak's clean up sweep. Rotom-W and Scizor seems like a clutch strategy with entry hazards set down by Ferrothorn.

    I suggest the same Pokemon as Tobes, Gyarados but not a scarfer - a bulkyDos a kin to what IB93 used in his Fable team. Despite being Impish with +0 Atk investment, under Rain it has all the fire power it needs. It's a solid answer to Lucario and Volcarona, and forms a strong defensive core with Ferrothorn that still packs a punch. Ferrothorn + Gyarados = Dragonite cock-block. With Gyarados and Scarf Rotom-W, you should have Landorus and Excadrill covered as well (although it would be safer if you scarfed your Politoed instead). Gyarados, just like Rotom-W and Scizor, can abuse entry hazard damage with its strong Dragon Tail - a great mon to stop bp teams, as well as dual screen / set up sweeping teams.

    Waterfall | Stone Edge | Taunt | Dragon Tail
    248 HP | 252 Def | 8 SDef

    Stone Edge owns Volcarona in Rain, Sand, or Sun and doesn't worry about Flame Body. Taunt restricts what Gyara counters can do while Gyara switches, preventing Jellicent from Wisping your Toxicroak or Rotom-W from Wisping / Tricking / Pain Splitting your Ferrothorn as you switch out Gyarados. Taunt shuts down BP teams and great for stall-breaking, owning SkarmBliss. Waterfall under Rain hurts from Gyarados, and it wont be surprising if Gyarados ends up sweeping the opposing team once you remove Water / Grass mons.

    Stone Edge always breaks BulkyDDNite's Substitute even through Multiscale, so you can safely DTail it out - Dragon Claw does nothing anyways. The more offensive variant would be forced to Outrage because of the threat of DTail, where Ferrothorn can come in and do its thing. Gyarados can still stomach an +0 Outrage comfortably and retaliate with Stone-Edge. Intimidate really helps - making DDNite easy to handle, and allowing Gyarados to check Landorus and Excadrill in conjunction with Rotom-W and Ferrothorn. In short, DDNite wont be a problem for you.

    Also, I suggest trying Hypnosis on Politoed over Focus Blast. Rather than guessing whether to Focus Blast / Ice Beam his Grass mon or HP Grass his Water mon, Hypnosis just puts them to sleep, a much more spammable move that can shut down one of Politoed's counter. Plus, if you get Jellicent, it would be far easier to Pursuit-Trap kill a sleeping Jellicent than one that is awake. Scizor 2HKOs with Tech-boosted Pursuit. It's ironic that a Scizor counter gets killed by Scizor, heh.

    Focus Blast is the most replaceable move, since Hydro Pump already has good odds of even 3HKOing the most specially defensive Ferrothorn, it is much better to spam your main move over Focus Blast. HP Grass is still good for smacking Gastrodon's hard. I think I personally prefer Scald over Ice Beam, to reward resisted mons with Burns, and also because Hydro Pump's PP and accuracy can be shitty, but Ice Beam of course works.
  19. Angel Eyes

    Angel Eyes

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    Not bad. Seems like a standard run of the mill Drizzle team but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Despite the fact rain is up, you have two 4x fire weaknesses. This might go bad for you if the weather is changed to sand, or worse, sun. Just something to keep in mind. Also you might want to use a cleric, something to keep teammates healthy. Jirachi does a good job of this, and benefits from the rain as well.
  20. fatsnorlax

    fatsnorlax

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    This is a really good team. As for volcarona, SR and Sucker Punch from Toxicraok should nail it. Love the custom sprites too.
  21. BKC

    BKC
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    Jellicent is a perfect answer to the Volcarona issue. Volc can't really do significant damage right off the bat, but it's a problem if it's at high health and it gets too many SpD boosts from Quiver Dance - however, since Jelli also blocks spin [even against Excadrill - use a Bold nature and max hp + max defense, which also helps with your Landorus problem], Volc will have 50% of its health at most when attempting to set up, so it won't be tanking more than two rain-boosted Scalds. Toxicroak is now a non-issue as well, just dodge the Sucker Punch and burn it. If it's a sub + bulk up set, just Taunt and stall it out of its two attacking moves. As for who to replace, I think it's Thundurus, simply because everyone else on your team has a specific role; Thund looks like it was just sort of thrown on because it'd be nice to have a second late-game sweeper. You've already got enough electric-type coverage with Rotom-W, so it's not that big a loss.

    Just something to consider, as this is a great team and there's not much room for improvement. gl!
  22. VERAKS

    VERAKS

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    this is a nice solid rain team but the only thing i would recommend is thunderbolt over thunder on thundurus in case you can't get rain up or lose the weather war but otherwise a very nice team :D
  23. Blue_Star

    Blue_Star
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    I think you could use a spread of 208 hp/48 def/252 speed timid on thundurus because you're using Substitute and Focus blast. With that spread, ferrothorn's power whip will fail to break its sub, so you can get free turns on the most common used poke. Amazing team buddy, it pretty much shows the effectiveness of rain teams on this suspect testing round. Also, congrats on your 3-0 on the world cup!
  24. McMeghan

    McMeghan Dreamcatcher
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    Thx again for all your propositions.
    Soon, there will be some ban, maybe the Thundurus one, so it's great to have some idea to revamp the team after the suspect round, it's even better considering Thundurus is the less "obligatory" member of the team.

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