NO STATUS

[Jajoken]

This is not completely true - Deo-S was banned because of both of the sets. If Deo-S didn't have access to SR, Spikes, Taunt, or even Dual Screens it'd probably still be banned from OU because of how powerful the LO set was.

I'm dissing the set, I'm just saying it's not enough on its own to get banned. I'm too lazy to dig up the suspect thread, but the main argument for getting it banned wasn't "the Life Orb cleaner set is incredibly strong and impossible to check oh and it gets some utility too which is cute" but "it has all these utility options that are more common and very effective but then if you try to counteract those sets then sometimes it has this cool Life Orb cleaner set that can run through your team."

Think of it this way: we unban Aegislash in OU, but it can only use its Sub Toxic set. Ask people around the time it was banned, and they would say that's Aegi's best set. So we unban it and it's broken, right? Not really. That's one of Aegislash's 10,000,000 different sets, and on its own is not broken enough to get banned. Aegislash with one set is able to be played around -- same with Deoxys-S. If you know it's offensive, it's manageable. And as was pointed out, Sucker Punch is a nightmare for it.

 

[Funbot28]

Ok since we are talking about bringing stuff back, might as well join in:

: Unbanned. It can't guarantee support to the team with hazards + screens anymore. It's effectiveness as a LO sweeper is kinda overrated imo as it only has 95 offenses. The meta also hinders it, as Sucker Punch is always guaranteed, so it can't play mind games with it, and there is a lot of priority running around. It's good, but not enough to be broken.

: Not sure, but leaning towards Unbanned. Aegislash still would hit incredibly hard with 150 offenses, but no King's Shield means no Stance Change, and that's the main problem with Aegi. It is also too slow to properly sweep teams, and can actually help deal with threats like Talonflame, Lati@s and Deoxys-S is it is brought back.

: Unban Giratina, Giratina-O can remain banned. Giratina-A really relys on status to be what it is in Ubers, and dosen't really has an offensive presence to justify it being banned. Giratina-O however would still be too much as 120 offenses coupled with great STABs would leave there to be no switchins in a offensive meta.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Okay so here we are.

No Status Viability Rankings
​

Created by AllJokesAside, Dr. Phd. BJ , LaxLapras and me, Chopin Alkaninoff.

S rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are unmatched in the No status metagame. These Pokemon can sweep or wall large portions of the metagame on their own, and often in more than one capacity. With so few if any flaws holding them back they should always be considered over another Pokemon that performs in a similar role. These Pokemon define the metagame.

S rank

Mega Charizard-Y

Wobbuffet


A rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are extremely potent in the No status metagame. These Pokemon can sweep or wall large portions of the metagame and have minor flaws that can be mitigated with the right support, if any. They can perform very well in more than one role or just excel in one so well they do it better than almost anything else. These Pokemon influence the metagame.

A+

Bisharp

Giratina

Honchkrow

Landorus-Therian

Talonflame

Tornadus-Therian

A

Azumarill

Kyurem-Black

Mega Manectric

Mega Metagross

Mega Lopunny

Rotom-Wash

Slowbro

Tangrowth

A-

Conkeldurr

Entei

Excadrill

Lugia

Mega Pinsir

Raikou

Scizor

Serperior

Tyranitar


B rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are still very potent in the No status metagame. These Pokemon can sweep or wall some portions of the metagame but might have flaws that require more support. They can perform very well in one role, but may struggle in multiple capacities. They still have more positive traits than negative. These Pokemon are adaptable to the metagame.

B+

Dragonite

Dugtrio

Garchomp

Latios

Mega Ampharos

Mega Charizard-X

Mienshao

Slowking

Weavile

B

Gengar

Heracross

Hoopa-Unbound

Keldeo

Mega Beedrill

Salamence

Shedinja

Starmie

B-

Alakazam

Amoonguss

Blaziken

Gliscor

Heatran

Jirachi

Kabutops

Terrakion

C rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have some potency in the No status metagame. These Pokemon can threaten or check some portions of the metagame but often have large flaws that require more support. They often can only perform well in one role as multiple roles will expose their many flaws. They may have more negative traits than positive. These Pokemon have a hard time adapting with the metagame.

C+

Kingdra

Mega Swampert

Victreebel

C

Alomomola

Ferrothorn

Ludicolo

Politoed

Reuniclus

Spiritomb

C-

Gothitelle

We might miss a few pokes, so feel free to nominate pokes not on the list and give reason why.

 

[Josh]

I'd say to create an S- and drop torn-t, because while he is quite good and better than the A mons, he is not in the same league as wobbflame. They are simply better. Wobb with his guaranteed 1-2 kills, and tflame with that insane priority and overall greatness. Perhaps bring up another A+ mon to go into S- if you wish.

 

[DoW]

The rankings need Politoed, while I'm not convinced about a few of the rankings: Mega Ampharos and Amoonguss both work very well from my experience, while my rain team's Kabutops and Kingdra almost always get at least one KO (though of course they need support for this to work).

Also disagreeing with Joshz : while Torn-t doesn't necessarily get as many kills, it can be very hard to kill due to Regen, AV and fast u-turns out of attacks, while the momentum it provides is huge. It still has decent damage output as well, alongside with utility in knock off, which is cool.

 

[dusk raimon]

With the amount of birds in this meta, I feel like metagross can run thunder punch and ice punch, or even rock slide to much more effect in this meta than ou. It can even run ice punch on the same set as thunder lunch to deal with lando-t and other birds which are neutral to electric vise-versa for thunder punch.

 

[Akumeoy]

What is Druddigon's niche in this meta, exactly? Dragon-type AV user with Sucker Punch?

B- feels low for Jirachi. Specially Defensive sets make for great blanket checks, and its Body Slam is, outside of Nuzzle, the best way to spread paralysis in this meta. Very little, save Electric-types, savor the prospect of switching in on it. It also has Wobbuffet-proofing options in mixed sets, Doom Desire, and Power-Up Punch.

I'm also interested in an elaboration on Slowbro's rank. Susceptibility to Dark-types seems to be its only serious flaw here, as it's a blanket check to many Physical attackers with the coveted ability to recover HP and Scald to boot. It's consistently instrumental for me in wearing down opponents so that my more offensively inclined teammates can take them down. I'd sooner have it in A+ than Honchkrow, which in my experience has great difficulty switching in and is too slow and fragile to be effective against anything that it can't handle with Sucker Punch. Not that it isn't good, but I don't see it at A+ levels of effectiveness.

tl;dr looking for explanation of Druddigon/Jirachi/Slowbro, perhaps replays of Honchkrow.

Otherwise I don't see anything substantially wrong with these rankings. Nice work.

 

[LightningLord2]

Is there a need for the Sleep Clause? The only means to induce sleep at all is through Effect Spore and Relic Song.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

What is Druddigon's niche in this meta, exactly? Dragon-type AV user with Sucker Punch?

B- feels low for Jirachi. Specially Defensive sets make for great blanket checks, and its Body Slam is, outside of Nuzzle, the best way to spread paralysis in this meta. Very little, save Electric-types, savor the prospect of switching in on it. It also has Wobbuffet-proofing options in mixed sets, Doom Desire, and Power-Up Punch.

I'm also interested in an elaboration on Slowbro's rank. Susceptibility to Dark-types seems to be its only serious flaw here, as it's a blanket check to many Physical attackers with the coveted ability to recover HP and Scald to boot. It's consistently instrumental for me in wearing down opponents so that my more offensively inclined teammates can take them down. I'd sooner have it in A+ than Honchkrow, which in my experience has great difficulty switching in and is too slow and fragile to be effective against anything that it can't handle with Sucker Punch. Not that it isn't good, but I don't see it at A+ levels of effectiveness.

tl;dr looking for explanation of Druddigon/Jirachi/Slowbro, perhaps replays of Honchkrow.

Otherwise I don't see anything substantially wrong with these rankings. Nice work.

Druddigon's niche is Mold Breaker Pursuit for Shedinja, then Sucker Punch. Other than that, an inferior Garchomp as Rough Skin + Rocky Helmet punisher.

As for Honchkrow and Slowbro, idk. People basically agree to put it in A+ and A with its advantages and disadvantages. Yeah, Honchkrow can't switch in, but it demolishes Regen cores and it has Moxie to sweep with its Sucker Punch. It's comparable to Bisharp but has different qualities.

Also yeah, I forgot to put Politoed in.

 

[Akumeoy]

Druddigon's niche is Mold Breaker Pursuit for Shedinja, then Sucker Punch. Other than that, an inferior Garchomp as Rough Skin + Rocky Helmet punisher.

As for Honchkrow and Slowbro, idk. People basically agree to put it in A+ and A with its advantages and disadvantages. Yeah, Honchkrow can't switch in, but it demolishes Regen cores and it has Moxie to sweep with its Sucker Punch. It's comparable to Bisharp but has different qualities.

Also yeah, I forgot to put Politoed in.

Shedinja is already weak to Dark; Mold Breaker is irrelevant to KOing it with Pursuit. Methinks you're confusing this with BH... but yeah, Rough-and-Rocky with Pursuit is pretty much a hard stop to Shedinja, I'll give you that.

While we're here, what have people been using as an answer to Mega Charizard Y?

Also, does anyone besides me have experience with Mega Charizard X? It could have mileage as a Boltbeam absorber that people don't anticipate (I've taken many Electric-type attacks while Mega-evolving it) because of the Char-Y hype, but I suspect that I'm not using it properly.

 

[Mr155551]

Well Mega Charizard Y is more or less Same as Regular Charizard does in vanilla using fire blast in conjuction with coverage moves like focus blast that has drought which replaces the choice specs he can't hold

 

[Funbot28]

Ok so now that there are rankings, he are my noms:

A+ to S: Switchins to this are little to none. It is extremely powerful, especially under the sun. There are ways to deal with it like Talonflame and Wobb, but none of this mons can actually switch in to it. The lack of SR really helps Mega Zard Y, and it should rise.

A to A-/B+: I don't see regular Scizor quite often on the ladder. I just can't see why it is A-Rank, especially after it lost utility in Roost and Defog. It does have a powerful CB set, but there are plenty other hard hitters besides Scizor, that should take it's place.

A- to A: Mega Loppuny is such a fast heavy hitter in this meta thanks to it's great Attack and Speed. The meta does bring some checks in birdspam and Wobb, and bulky AV users in Tangrowth and Slowbro, but Mega Loppuny can run through offensive teams with ease, and should rise because of this.

A- to B: Although Shedinja is a pain when there are no status moves, I don't think that justifies A- though, as it also lost key moves like SD and Baton Pass. It just doesn't deal enough damage in 90 Attack , leaving it to be a sitting duck on the battle field. Plus it has key weaknesses in Dark, Flying and Fire that are quite common in this metagame.

B to B+: I know this might be a weird nom thanks to things like Bisharp and Honchrow who take it's position as a Dark type, but Hoopa-U's incredible stats coupled with it's amazing movepool make it too good compared to the other things ranked in B. Like Mega Zard Y, there are very few switch ins to this monster, and the only real way to deal with it if it has a Choice Scarf, is having Talonflame or other strong priority moves. It destroys walls in AV Slowbro and Tornadus-T and overall should just rise. P.S you can use this icon, instead of the huge one :)

C- to Unranked: Gothitelle is just a poor mans Wobbuffet in this meta. It lost moves in Trick and Calm Mind that made it good in regular OU. It is very weak without these options, making the opponents mon taking it out before Gothitelle can.

The rest seems good to me :)

^ Ugmm you sure about that?

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Sun: 313-370 (91.7 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Charizard Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 237-280 (69.5 - 82.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Mr155551]

i mean zard y has higher stats than regular zard but i mean the strategy is predictable

 

[Akumeoy]

i mean zard y has higher stats than regular zard but i mean the strategy is predictable

Fire Blast, Solar Beam, Focus Blast, and coverage-move-of-choice is hard enough to handle in its own right that you can see it coming and it will still probably do a number to your team. This is, of course, entirely my own perception, which is why I decided to seek additional opinions.

Lugia, with a spread of 252 HP / 44 SpA / 208+ SpD, avoids the 2HKO even with a broken Multiscale and no Lefties, and 2HKOes in return with Ancient Power or HP Rock. With lefties and Multiscale intact, it can switch in on Solar Beam and Focus Blast and heal the Multiscale back up.

Giratina, if it were to drop, would laugh its head off at anything Char Y could throw at it. Dragon Pulse doesn't reliably 4HKO a Specially Defensive spread through Leftovers. Uninvested Stone Edge OHKOes in return... that said, I'm wary of letting Giratina drop, because it has this incredible defensive prowess while it has the movepool and stats to hit anything that threatens it back.

 

[Funbot28]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nostatus-256283079

After this battle, I think it's safe to assume that Wobb is too much for the tier, as I think that's the general consensus of the community. I would at least like to see a suspect for it...

Also still don't think Sheddy should rise..

Tagging The Immortal since it's his meta

 

[Laxpras]

Okay there is some debate regarding Shedinja. Some people think its S, some people think its A, some people think its much worse than that. It obviously has its roles, and in theory its great with no hazards or status, and i admit I have not used it, but whenever I play it, it is no problem to handle.

I believe this is because when forced to use 4 moves, the coverage is likely to handle something with relatively bad typing. Also, the two biggest offensive threats in the meta are priority flying and dark (Gale wings and sucker punch). This leaves Shedinja in a bad spot.

I was just building a team around a bulky Salamence for a quick test, I did not even consider Shedinja in the slightest during the teambuild, but as you can see in this replay, the common dark moves and 4 move coverage make shedinja useless against me as all 6mons handle it. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nostatus-256297769

That said, obviously Shedinja late game can be a problem if coverage is lost, but with dark and flying and random coverage anywhere, I have a hard time putting it in a really high rank. That's why I like Shedinja at A- or even a little lower.

EDIT: After further playing, I see even less use for shedinja. B rank is justified imo.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Added Politoed to C rank. It's just there for Rain teams.

Removed Druddigon. It's got no niche that's unique enough.

Also I need link to replace Hoopa-Unbound sprite. It's hard to find one because some sites don't have it yet.

Regarding Shedinja, I need help for its placement. Should it rise? Should it drop? I'm saying this because there are many arguements for Shedinja being amazing and bad. I'm kinda confused right now.

 

[Funbot28]

Also I need link to replace Hoopa-Unbound sprite. It's hard to find one because some sites don't have it yet.

I have one in my post

 

[Akumeoy]

Added Politoed to C rank. It's just there for Rain teams.

Removed Druddigon. It's got no niche that's unique enough.

Also I need link to replace Hoopa-Unbound sprite. It's hard to find one because some sites don't have it yet.

Regarding Shedinja, I need help for its placement. Should it rise? Should it drop? I'm saying this because there are many arguements for Shedinja being amazing and bad. I'm kinda confused right now.

Just looking through the S-A ranks for things that are likely to run moves that beat Shedinja: Talonflame's STABs, Tornadus-T's Knock Off, STAB, and Heat Wave, Bisharp and Honchkrow's Pursuit, Lando-T's Knock Off and Stone Edge, Char-Y's STABs, Azu's Knock Off, Kyub's everything, Mega Manectric's Flamethrower/Overheat, Scizor's Pursuit/Koff, Tangrowth's Koff, Entei's STABs and Stone Edge, Excadrill's Rock Slide, Mega Pinsir's STABs, Raikou's Shadow Ball, Shedinja's Ghost STABs and Sucker Punch, and Tyranitar's Sand Stream + Pursuit.

I would not rank anything that's 2HKOed by most of the A Rankings that highly. Everything I didn't list CAN run a move to beat Shedinja that doesn't suck, but wouldn't necessarily do so. Still, Shedinja can pivot into the common sets of a number of good Pokémon and might have use for double-switching into checks by baiting predictable moves. B or B-.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Okay. Removed Shedinja from A- and put it in B, based on the previous arguments.

Also Scizor seems underwhelming. I'm thinking of moving it down to something like A-.

 

[Salamencizer]

Ok. So that day, I was on slow connection, ended up clicking 'Reply' 3 times. Failed to delete that. Sorry for that.
Welp...

NO ROXX (Talonflame) @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn

The nickname. Yeah.

Hands 2x Flinch 2x (Ambipom) (F) @ King's Rock
Ability: Technician
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Fling
- Last Resort

Last Resort OP. Or, You can Even Remove Fling.

Intimidation - Celebration (Landorus-Therian) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge/Superpower

When you can't WOW, you should Intimidate.

Thats it for now.Ill post more.

Deoxys-Speed @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 16 Atk / 252 SpA / 240 Spe
Naive Nature
- Psycho Shift/Psyshock/Zen headbutt/HP ice/Grass knot
- Superpower/Focus Blast/Low kick
- HP Fire/Fire punch /Dark pulse/Extreme speed
- Ice Beam/Thunderbolt/Knock off/Poison jab
Chopin Alkanioff^ That's the set.

Giratina regular might be a cool addition, Giratina Origins is wayyy too good. Deoxy-S is too good aswell in my opinion.

Remember, Status Moves are BANNED.

 

[The Immortal]

Next drop is... Mega Mawile. We'll see what it's like in NO STATUS without Swords Dance and with it's poor Speed.

 

[Darth Manaphy]

It may not have Swords Dance but it was always deadly with Sucker Punch so it'll probably just spam that now.

 

[Josh]

Allow darkrai and aegi to be used imo, as the only 2 other ubers to be brought down.

1) Aegi is pretty dogshit without kings shield and being able to revert to shield form, he really won't be a threat. He's definitely beatable.

2) Darkrai has been allowed in nearly all metas that remove signature dark void (including STABmons in which anyone can get it), because it's the only thing making him broken. He will still be a fast and powerful special attacker, but nowhere near broken.

And TI, like I said on showdown, I'm still against m-mawile personally. He's still perfectly capable of sucker punching, even more consistently now among his other very powerful moves. I just think it's unhealthy for the meta.

 

[Mr155551]

I'll Have to say keep darkrai and mega mawile banned because they only lost swords dance in mega mawile case and dark void and nasty plot in darkrai case and they can just spam their moves + coverage