In regular play almost every mon has access to toxic, stealth rock, spikes, toxic spikes, leech seed ect, many other factors to beat Shedninja. In No status pokemon that lack coverage literally can't do anything. Your Mega Metagross is basically useless as Mega Metagross only has one viable move to hit it with, pursuit. Your Altaria might be useless, Thundurus, Azumarill, Breloom, Celebi, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Swampert, Politoed, Kingdra, it all depends on the moveset. As long as you know your opponent can't hit you, your playstyles will be revolving around eliminating those that can, so you either have your whole team running dark/ghost/fire/rock move, centralising, or your opponent will be able to pick your team apart and eliminate the pokemon that can deal super effective damage. Basically any mon can be useless if its not running said super effective move, which centralises the metagame around them.
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NO STATUS
- Thread starter The Immortal
- Start date
Well, the only Pokemon that that would really affect are those that have 4MSS with 4 attacking moves (with one of the guaranteed slots not being a type Shedinja is weak against). Mega Metagross always had that problem since there are SO many Pokemon it can take down with different moves
Mega Altaria doesn't have that problem at all. In standard I've seen it run Return and Earthquake often. And then it usually runs Fire Blast for the third move. So it would be stupid to not run it.
Thundurus's "good" coverage includes Thunderbolt/Volt Switch, Dark Pulse, Focus Blast, Psychic, Sludge Bomb/Wave (depends if you want to spread poison well or not), Flash Cannon, and Hidden Power. It's easy to just choose to run Dark Pulse on it if you really hate it (since you can't run status moves on it)
Azumarill's common sets run Knock Off anyways so it's not a big deal for it to deal with Shedinja.
Breloom is crap here anyways since it lost its main niche with Spore so I don't even want to talk about how to deal with a slow frail Pokemon in what will no doubt be a HO metagame.
Celebi doesn't have many coverage options it can use, so Hidden Power Fire is great on it (it's recommended on its only real offensive set as well)
Mega Gardevoir only has 6 main moves: Hyper Voice, Psyshock, Focus Blast, Thunderbolt, Hidden Power, and Shadow Ball. The first three are used. Shadow Ball is great to take down Shedinja as well as Steel/Psychics and Fire/Psychics so it'll see use.
Mega Swampert will probably see less use since it's slow and its ability is useless without Politoed support, but it's definitely better than Breloom. It's physical movepool includes Waterfall, Earthquake, Ice Punch, Power-Up Punch/Superpower, Rock Slide/Stone Edge. It's kind of a wash if you want Fighting or Rock coverage. EdgeQuake coverage is pretty good in general so it might run that.
Politoed has a problem since it has to run Hidden Power and it would prefer running Hidden Power Grass to take down Gastrodon, Quagsire, and Jellicent. But the latter can also be taken care of by Hidden Power Dark (and hey, all 31 IVs there!). So it depends on who you want to wall you. And to be fair, Gastrodon isn't something you really need to worry about.
Kingdra has a problem too because it likes its moves. So, I'll give you that one.
So, out of the 10 you listed, 1 doesn't have a place in this Meta, 2 have problems (but only one has serious problems), 1 has 4MSS, 1 has a slight moveset change from standard that it probably won't mind too much, 2 have moveset spots open for it, and 3 already have solutions listed under their "good" sets on this site. So, altogether 40% listed have any sort of problems (if we still count Breloom) and that was trying to find good problems here.
But you're counting specifics. Lets take a look at this;
Alright, look at this core. Sand force Tyranitar, Focus sash Shedinja and Arena Trap dugtrio. In tandem Dugtrio covers Shedinjas weakness of Rock, whilst also trapping Diancie, Tyranitar, Terrakion, Aggron and Tyrantrum. Whilst also trapping Heatran, Entei, Victini and Charizard-X ect. Tyranitar assists in the fact that it resist every one of Shedinjas weaknesses bar rock, which is covered by Dugtrio, and it also packs Pursuit to trap the likes of Gengar and Hoopa. This is just my two cents, with proper prediction and good team support this core picks apart Shedinjas weaknesses.
When you have a pokemon with 15 weaknesses it forces every single mon to take one pokemon in to account, you can pivot out from it either bar Mold breaker, and the only mold breaker users with pivot moves are Hawlucha and Mega Ampharos, not the most viable ones.
I've battled and lost 7 times...
I learned that the only way to win, is to get choice band / sharp beak Talonflame on your team. Scarf Heracross is another good option to cover talonflame's weakness. Wobbuffett is also nice too.
I see lots of choice band talonflame and choice item users.
I learned that the only way to win, is to get choice band / sharp beak Talonflame on your team. Scarf Heracross is another good option to cover talonflame's weakness. Wobbuffett is also nice too.
I see lots of choice band talonflame and choice item users.
Perhaps this is a nitpick, but I don't think that Dugtrio's resistances are exceptionally relevant with 35/50/70 bulk. Nigh-everything in the game 2HKOs Dugtrio, so this core can be beaten with Rock-type moves.
You're also thinking of Unnerve Tyranitar. Hippowdon is the one with Sand Force.
Limiting ourselves to Pursuit users just to really fuck with Shedinja: Bisharp and Weavile can beat the core with Pursuit on Shedinja, Low Kick on Tyranitar, and priority of choice on Dugtrio (or Weavile can just outspeed lol). Scizor gets Pursuit, isn't KOed by Dugtrio (and BP 2HKOs with minimal investment), and can U-Turn or Superpower on Tyranitar. It does have 4MSS here, but U-Turn + BP + Pursuit + Superpower isn't all that bad. Tyranitar itself can pull off similar feats, save for handling low-HP Reversal Dugtrio. If Beedrill gets its mEvo off, it takes the core on as well.
I can't say whether Shedinja is broken, but even its cores have answers that are good.
Funbot28
Banned deucer.
Wow just realized now how viable Sucker Punch is in this meta, it is literally a guaranteed revenge kill on a weakened mon. Things like Bisharp will really enjoy this meta, as it also has access to Knock Off, and in a meta where people rely on leftovers and eviolite to be bulky, it is a great thing to have.
Really don't know what to say yet about Wobb... I mean it is really threatening as it can guarantee a KO on any mon it chooses, but in a meta where HO is literally the only viable playstyle, don't know if it can keep up with the meta's offensive presence due to poor defensive stats. It's tricky but definitely deserves a looking into.
Shedinja to me isn't really broken, as most of the teams I created for this meta so far has a way to deal with it without even me considering it yet. The lack of status moves also hurts the ninja bug aswell, as it can't set up and baton pass SDs, and can't Toxic stall either. It is literally a sitting duck with it's 90 Atk not doing much.
Will enjoy this meta... Although already starting to miss MnM :(
P.S im up for challenges on Aqua if you're looking for battles
Really don't know what to say yet about Wobb... I mean it is really threatening as it can guarantee a KO on any mon it chooses, but in a meta where HO is literally the only viable playstyle, don't know if it can keep up with the meta's offensive presence due to poor defensive stats. It's tricky but definitely deserves a looking into.
Shedinja to me isn't really broken, as most of the teams I created for this meta so far has a way to deal with it without even me considering it yet. The lack of status moves also hurts the ninja bug aswell, as it can't set up and baton pass SDs, and can't Toxic stall either. It is literally a sitting duck with it's 90 Atk not doing much.
Will enjoy this meta... Although already starting to miss MnM :(
P.S im up for challenges on Aqua if you're looking for battles
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nostatus-255299368
Shedinja seems pretty effective, atleast in battle since not everybody runs a super effective coverage move, giving me a free attack every time.
Shedinja seems pretty effective, atleast in battle since not everybody runs a super effective coverage move, giving me a free attack every time.
Funbot28
Banned deucer.
Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off
- U-turn
Raikou @ Assault Vest
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SpA / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Shadow Ball
- Volt Switch
Here is a real nice volturn core I am currently using. Raikou and Lando-T really compliment eachother nicely, giving the team nice momentum, and beats common pokes like Talonflame, and deals with annoying mons like Wobb.
The Flame Charges and the Power Up Punches. Huh.
(Didnt forget Speed Boost)
Thnx the Immortal... Actaully im on slow connection... So i triple clicked 'Reply' bfore... And sorry for the spam too.. :'(
(Didnt forget Speed Boost)
Thnx the Immortal... Actaully im on slow connection... So i triple clicked 'Reply' bfore... And sorry for the spam too.. :'(
Last edited by a moderator:
Is it possible you could change the rules so Pokemon CAN bring status moves to a battle, but it can't use those moves, kinda like the effect assault vest has on status moves.
I'm asking this because i am upset at how Ditto cannot be used at all :( disappointing.
I'm asking this because i am upset at how Ditto cannot be used at all :( disappointing.
Well that would make sense if this was "Tauntmons", where everything was always under Taunt. But this is "NO STATUS", where all Status moves are banned.
Not going to make an exception for Ditto...
Presumably he was referring to the fact that Ditto can only learn Transform, meaning a Ditto with no status moves has no moves at all. No moves Pokemon are rejected by the queue, so any Ditto is a no-go.
Best time to test Ubers is while we have a ladder. Dropping Lugia.
Lugia seems like a cool Pokemon for this meta! It'll probably aid in birdspam due to its high Speed and decent Special Attack, but mostly because of its access to a great Flying-type move in Aeroblast. I haven't tested it yet (made a team with it though!) Although it's a bit weaker than most Pokemon, its varied movepool and extremely good bulk will probably make up for it, as I'm sure its KOing most threats earlier than they KO it. For example, CB Victini's V-Create will never KO from full health, not counting Multiscale.
May post some more when I have experiences on the ladder.
Edit: It also has so many types of coverage to choose from... besides its STABs, it gets Water, Electric, Ground, Ghost, Bug, Ice, Dragon and Normal coverage, from the top of my head. Of course, this is excluding Hidden Power.
Edit 2: Had a few quick battles, it pulled its weight easily through the battles. It usually KOs two mons.
May post some more when I have experiences on the ladder.
Edit: It also has so many types of coverage to choose from... besides its STABs, it gets Water, Electric, Ground, Ghost, Bug, Ice, Dragon and Normal coverage, from the top of my head. Of course, this is excluding Hidden Power.
Edit 2: Had a few quick battles, it pulled its weight easily through the battles. It usually KOs two mons.
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Some comments on Ubers.
Lugia: it's very bulky, it's fast, but it's power is kind of underwhelming. Note that because of event, Psycho Boost is illegal with Multiscale, so you have to give up on Multiscale if you want power.
Deo-S: It's very fast, has about the same power as Lugia's. Pretty frail, so it might not be too bad. Might be a very nice revenge killer because it outspeeds positive natured base 100 Speed with a Scarf, which is impressive.
Aegislash: Slow, very strong, but it's main move that makes it banned, King's Shield, can't be used, so it becomes very predictable considering after first turn it switches in, it'll be in Blade form. Because of this, it might not be so bad.
Other candidates are probably Mega Mawile and Giratina (no, not Origin). Will post some thoughts about these two.
Lugia: it's very bulky, it's fast, but it's power is kind of underwhelming. Note that because of event, Psycho Boost is illegal with Multiscale, so you have to give up on Multiscale if you want power.
Deo-S: It's very fast, has about the same power as Lugia's. Pretty frail, so it might not be too bad. Might be a very nice revenge killer because it outspeeds positive natured base 100 Speed with a Scarf, which is impressive.
Aegislash: Slow, very strong, but it's main move that makes it banned, King's Shield, can't be used, so it becomes very predictable considering after first turn it switches in, it'll be in Blade form. Because of this, it might not be so bad.
Other candidates are probably Mega Mawile and Giratina (no, not Origin). Will post some thoughts about these two.
canno
formerly The Reptile
I feel like if we can drop Lugia into the tier, we can also drop Giratina, as it loses out on all of its really fun toys (Wisp, Defog, and ResTalk) while its not very strong or fast. It's movepool isn't even as colorful as Lugias, although it is decent enough (Shadow Sneak, Aura Sphere, Earth Power, Thunderbolt, Charge Beamu).
Also Deo-S being allowed is an insane notion. While it loses its utility set in Spikes, what's arguably its best set is still very strong in the meta - a bit too strong, maybe. That being said, Deo-D can definitely come back, as its not that much better than a lot of the things in the meta. I don't think any of the other Ubers can drop outside of Gira and Deo-D tbh.
Also Deo-S being allowed is an insane notion. While it loses its utility set in Spikes, what's arguably its best set is still very strong in the meta - a bit too strong, maybe. That being said, Deo-D can definitely come back, as its not that much better than a lot of the things in the meta. I don't think any of the other Ubers can drop outside of Gira and Deo-D tbh.
Umm, can you please mention about this best set of Deo-S?
No. One of Deoxys-S's best movesets was a revenge killer set. It is fast enough to hit any non-priority user first and with a 180 BP Psycho Boost, a 95 base Special Attack isn't a problem. It becomes one-dimensional now but that's not a problem when it becomes the best non-priority revenge killer. In fact, a Choice Specs set does more damage than Talonflame's Brave Bird.
Deoxys-Speed @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 16 Atk / 252 SpA / 240 Spe
Naive Nature
- Psycho Shift/Psyshock/Zen headbutt/HP ice/Grass knot
- Superpower/Focus Blast/Low kick
- HP Fire/Fire punch /Dark pulse/Extreme speed
- Ice Beam/Thunderbolt/Knock off/Poison jab
Chopin Alkanioff^ That's the set.
Giratina regular might be a cool addition, Giratina Origins is wayyy too good. Deoxy-S is too good aswell in my opinion.
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 16 Atk / 252 SpA / 240 Spe
Naive Nature
- Psycho Shift/Psyshock/Zen headbutt/HP ice/Grass knot
- Superpower/Focus Blast/Low kick
- HP Fire/Fire punch /Dark pulse/Extreme speed
- Ice Beam/Thunderbolt/Knock off/Poison jab
Chopin Alkanioff^ That's the set.
Giratina regular might be a cool addition, Giratina Origins is wayyy too good. Deoxy-S is too good aswell in my opinion.
canno
formerly The Reptile
The LO Revenge Killer set was by far its best set. While the hazards / screens set was cute and really good - RK Deo-S was one of the biggest threats to offensive teams
True -- that's the Life Orb cleaner set I was referencing...but that wasn't the reason it got banned. It's good, but Spikes stacking, Stealth Rock, Taunt, and Dual Screens sets added the unpredictability it need to get the boot from OU, and as far as I know, those are the only things used in Ubers. And Specs Psychic types are really bad lol, no one uses that.
canno
formerly The Reptile
This is not completely true - Deo-S was banned because of both of the sets. If Deo-S didn't have access to SR, Spikes, Taunt, or even Dual Screens it'd probably still be banned from OU because of how powerful the LO set was.