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NOC Kidnaps/Silences

Discussion in 'Office of Strategic Influence' started by Mekkah, Aug 19, 2010.

  1. Mekkah

    Mekkah
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    Hey guys, it was fun putting this kind of role in Unicycle Mafia, but enough is enough. It wasn't much more than a one-time experiment, and it was nerfed considerably by making it last for only one cycle, and giving the target a one-time announcement.

    At the rate it's being thrown in now, you're preventing people from playing the game with this role. If you must have it in, don't make it last for longer than a cycle. But I'd rather people found another creative twist to this role rather than beating the same old dead horse again and again. This same problem happened to announcer. Nobody cares about announcers anymore. They were fun again for a bit when the Nostradamus role in Viva la Mafia was introduced, and then boring again.
  2. UncleSam

    UncleSam

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    Having been kidnapped in Redwall mafia as the village leader, I completely agree; a NOC Kidnap is essentially an unblockable kill when it lasts for a Night+Day+Night, just that someone gets revived from after a cycle. It takes someone completely out of the game and just ruins the game for the kidnapped party. Also, for everyone saying "but then it's just a silence"...it is actually a "silence+hook+night silence".

    In short, I am very happy Mekkah decided to post this, as is, I am sure, anyone who has ever been NOC kidnapped or silenced before.
  3. FinnRagetti

    FinnRagetti

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    I personally think that the priority system itself should be re-examined. I mean kidnaps are way too high up there. It's essentially a hooker with the added bonus of removing a player for 1.5 cycles. Here's my thoughts:

    *Move kills to the lowest priority action of the game. It may seem unnecesary if an inspector is going to get killed, but there may be times for example if a player is revived, giving the player back with important info without completely losing out on it. This shouldnt be done unless...
    *Move kidnapping to the 2nd lowest priority. By doing this, you allow the kidnappee the ability to still use an ability but without the added bonus of revealing what happened the night before until later on in the game.
    *Make returning from kidnap the same priority as kidnapping. Allows the mafia to stop a player from revealing results by forcing themselves to commit more actions into stopping it.

    Benefits of the move for village:
    -Village gets to still action, get results, then get kidnapped.
    -Basically kidnapee only loses out on the Day/Night to follow.
    -Mafia has to hook and kidnap the villager to still have the same affect as before.

    Benefits of the move for mafia:
    -Now serves as a protection against own teammember kills (without losing actions)
    -Still makes village lose a vote
    -Still stops vigilante kills
    -Can kill on the return

    Effects on the game as a whole:
    -Makes priority raisers more relevant
    -Decreases the power of kidnaps
    -Makes kidnaps a more versitile move
    -Makes the village slightly more powerful

    Teams with kidnappers AND hookers basically got 2 hookers, a normal one and a hooker 2.0. By lowering the priority, you make kidnappings only a player removal role for 1 cycle. I do agree a new look would be great, but for the generic kidnapping, I believe this should make NOC kidnappings more managable for other players and the game as a whole better.
  4. Mekkah

    Mekkah
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    This is probably unnecessary, and also counterintuitive. Thieves stealing an item on the night they die shouldn't succeed.

    You can just make kidnaps lowest priority, I dunno why everyone insists on making them essentially a stronger hooker. That's not what they were meant to be.
  5. UncleSam

    UncleSam

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    Well, the question is whether or not a Kidnap should equal a Hook+Silence+Hook or just a Silence+Hook. I guess that depends on what the host of a given game wants to make it. I mean, it is actually not that strong if it is non-NOC and just a Silence+Hook...

    As for the Inspections thing, I guess that is also up to the host. If they want Inspections to have a higher priority than kills or Kidnaps, that is a part of the game design that can affect balance. It all comes down to what hosts want to make more or less powerful, and honestly, hosts should never just go with what they believe is the "standard" set of priorities, they should think about possible changes and how this would affect the game.

    In short, your proposal sounds decent, but I don't think a "standard" priority set exists/should exist. Hosts can make their own determinations as to what goes before what.
  6. Mekkah

    Mekkah
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    They are often similar because the way most people do them make sense, e.g. hookers having higher priority than most roles. But yes, setting up your priorities to fit your game is an obvious part of game design.

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