NOC Medieval Mafia - Game Over: Majora's Maskians Win

Ampharos

tag walls, punch fascists
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LAST MINUTE VOTECOUNT
Quagsires (8) - kingofkongs, Cereza, Ditto, askaninjask, billymills, Snike, Paperblade, Dummy007
Cereza (4) - Leethoof, Yeti, Brammi, Rediamond
No Lynch (1) - wickdaggler
Blue_Tornado (1) - Crux
Dummy007 (1) - Kaxtar
Leethoof (1) - Jalmont
MK Ultra (1) - Quagsires
Staraptor Call (1) - zorbees
Ditto (1) - Blue_Tornado
Yeti (1) - Staraptor Call
 
I'll edit this with reads as I go on, since it seems I am doomed because people think they can get information from my death despite my role of alliance checker being an issue or many of them wanting to comment further (checked Leethoof on random.org, clean) (though I won't deny, this has go on for too long.) I am also offering to godkill myself if enough people believe I should, though that does mean extending the day...


Yeti- Overly defensive, especially when anyone disagrees with what she says (unless its about her trolling constantly, though that's kinda expected.) While she is a very active member of the thread and attempts to start things on her own, her posts usually seem to consist of a defense and then a few random comments, or just plain not taking anything too seriously (Great example). I really don't trust how she doesn't ever seem to be entirely serious about the game.

Blue_Tornado: Really against the flow of the game consistently, whether its with supporting me NOT to die or just going against Unclesam. It is good to have his difference of opinion around, but if he shows himself to be wrong ever, I think it would be worth looking a bit more into why he is going against the flow so much. Perhaps he's right, but I kinda doubt it.

billymills- He is behaving somewhat oddly as compared to how he's done in the past, but its been constantly stated that he is supposedly top tier enough to not do anything intentionally wrong. The items are odd, but they strike me as a neutral more than a maifan, and even then not necessarily a deadly one IF they exist and he's not just trolling. I would ask a BG to guard him tonight, since he seems to be a good player, but at the same time I really don't like how he's leading everyone and a lot of the game is hinging on what he says, since there is no clear reason to trust him.

Askaninjask- He seems frustrated more out of wanting a lynch of me to go through when he's not going to try and rebut anything I've said or quote me than actually things stalling (though the latter isn't exactly false). However, despite this, he seems to be one of the ones more interested in the discussion and seems to avoid quite a bit of suspicion that way.

Leethoof- See: above. Where are you though?

MK_Ultra: I expected some, I got nothing. What are you doing and why are you not posting or trying to get a sub?

Ditto: I'm not even going to try and explain your antics, I'm not sure what you're doing (though I'm sure it has a point, unlike a wild ditto), and its either inactivity(which is doubted by your postcount in this thread), not caring (we all hate these long days), or just simply going randomly wherever your mafia team wants (your "reigining in" as of late and a return to some limber from being so eccentric has added to this suspicion.).

Brammi: You come from a different background, and it shows. Not saying that is good or bad, but I am saying that this difference in opinion, though fresh and unique, is making you seem either inexperienced or scum here.

Zorbees: You not caring is normal, you really don't want to read, participate, or really do anything due to these long days (and your attitude matches your recent raging in MAGMAfia and 360 as well), but what if there was something more as to why you're so wanting to end the day. Like, for instance, your unwillingness to explain yourself while voting based on your lack of an explanation? In retrospect, you are right, this was a bit inflated and outdated, though posts like this are good examples of wanting a faster end to the day, since that brought it L-3 iirc, and while you have a history of not wanting votes to go up to that point, this is a notable exception (correct me if I'm wrong, I am not always right.)
Paperblade: Do I need to explain anymore? Your silent bandwagoning of me is also notable, and I doubt you're doing it because you want anyone remotely attacking you to be lynched, you're smarter than that.

Crux: See: parts about nothing serious, trolling, not caring or attempting to contribute often, etc.

wickdaggler: You really haven't been doing much besides daggling and make short, often incoherent or blatantly incorrect posts. I'm not sure whether to wonder why I put you in EXPERTS or if you have another agenda.

Rediamond: Explained throughout in the past.

Staraptor Call:See: Wickdaggler. You never really have stated why you do many things either, despite given a thinly veiled appearance otherwise.

Kingofkongs: If you could be guilty for not reading the thread, you'd be dead many times over by now. We all apologize for the daunting size, but you need to stop spamming, "BLARG _____ IS MAFIA" when you are offering no rebuttal to what they are saying, or no comment on their rebuttal.

Jalmont/Detroitlolcat: Please actually post. If anyone can be complained about inactivity, it'd be the people with 6/3 posts in the thread respectively, one of whom started in the game. I can't really get a good read on either of you unless you post, and I don't want to assume you could be bad, but that is by default the explanation. Please get subbed if you're not wanting to post.

I'll post more when I get back. Keep in mind that this is going along with what I said earlier about not telling the mafia who I think is town
 

askaninjask

[FLAIL ARMS]
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
@Dummy007 I had wanted to keep the list fairly short and did not look through the whole playerlist when I posted. I saw someone had voted you earlier and realized I hadn't seen you post very often so I wanted your opinion. Thank you for answering the questions; I get a pretty strong town vibe from your answers.

Still waiting on the answers to my questions from wickdaggler and Cereza. Also, Staraptor Call, you didn't answer my second question and I would like it if you were to do that.

@BT: While it is feasible that Quagsires could be village, to me he seems like the best shot we have at hitting a mafia. Ditto's antics were odd, but usually a villager would be the person to "suicide" as he did. Crux has not played as good of a game as we would hope that he would, but he has stated his opinion (which I empathize with) that Day 1 is useless. At least he has given an explanation for his behavior.
 
While it is feasible that Quagsires could be village, to me he seems like the best shot we have at hitting a mafia.
To you, maybe. He is far from the 'best shot we have at hitting a mafia', and personally I believe he is -not mafia- due to how the wagon has progressed and I must have said this like 10 times itt. I think you were one of the people to vote Quags for prodding purposes? Why is he suddenly the 'best shot' and not, say, the 'guy that will give us the most info once flipped' as others have been saying?
Ditto's antics were odd, but usually a villager would be the person to "suicide" as he did.
Where does this conclusion come from? Scum like doing this, intentionally, just as much as pissed-off town. It's called Appeal to Emotion.
Crux has not played as good of a game as we would hope that he would, but he has stated his opinion (which I empathize with) that Day 1 is useless. At least he has given an explanation for his behavior.
He's given an "explanation" for his reluctance to contribute anything at all today which is not acceptable, not by a long shot. Also, he did NOT give an explanation for his SUSPICIONS, which is even worse. I'm amazed at how I'm the only one pressing this fact.

I really REALLY want to provide a counterwagon to change to but none of you are going with my suggestions and Cereza is probably just as bad a lynch. Unfortunately, Quagsires will be RB'd until he dies, most likely, so unless Cereza is scum, the change in wagons is probably not worth it.

Can more people post, please?
 

zorbees

Chwa for no reason!
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Zorbees: You not caring is normal, you really don't want to read, participate, or really do anything due to these long days (and your attitude matches your recent raging in MAGMAfia and 360 as well), but what if there was something more as to why you're so terribly desperate to end the day. Like, for instance, your unwillingness to explain yourself while voting based on your lack of an explanation? Are you really desperate to kill me?
When have i desperately tried to end the day? I haven't supported a Quagsires lynch for a couple pages, yet no one seems to have cared about my opinion. I have explained myself for every vote as far as i can remember. Your read on me seems to be a bit outdated.

EDIT: can we have a deadline extension since Quagsires has claimed?
 
For this extension to actually be worth it, many of you lazy slackers need to re-read (or read, for the arguable majority of you) the thread, consider if Quagsires is still your vote, and if not, find what your vote is. If you want to convince others (and you do, unless you're lacking motivation and likely scum) to lynch your pick, explain WHY they're scum IN-DEPTH. It's really not that impossible.

Will be back tomorrow to re-examine some stuff.
 
For this extension to actually be worth it, many of you lazy slackers need to re-read (or read, for the arguable majority of you) the thread, consider if Quagsires is still your vote, and if not, find what your vote is. If you want to convince others (and you do, unless you're lacking motivation and likely scum) to lynch your pick, explain WHY they're scum IN-DEPTH. It's really not that impossible.

Will be back tomorrow to re-examine some stuff.
Posting to say i have a lot of work to do until 11pm PST (night classes), at which time i'll begin a post about my feelings about (no particular order) Quags, Cereza, Ditto, Staraptor Call, Yeti, Crux, and Blue Tornado. I'll probably comment on some other people as well.

Edit: And billymills too cause billymills sux
 

askaninjask

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is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
I hate doing this, but I fear I've written a novel. Sorry, guys... Pardon me if there are some grammatical mistakes.

To you, maybe. He is far from the 'best shot we have at hitting a mafia', and personally I believe he is -not mafia- due to how the wagon has progressed and I must have said this like 10 times itt. I think you were one of the people to vote Quags for prodding purposes? Why is he suddenly the 'best shot' and not, say, the 'guy that will give us the most info once flipped' as others have been saying?
I understand your point with the bandwagon. It has moved at a somewhat alarming rate. However, that could also be explained by mafia pals "jumping ship" and wishing to disassociate themselves with Quagsires. That's less likely, though, than mafia simply saying "Oh, he's not one of us. Let's join this wagon!!!" so I totally see this point, and am open to the possibility of changing wagons.

I also don't know if lynching for the guy that will give us the most information is a valid tactic. The purpose of lynching for info is that you can analyze people's moves NOT as tactics, but as accusations. If everyone just voted tactically, we'd get no info whatsoever. So I'm not lynching for info. I'm going to attempt to find someone who is mafia, and right now, in my opinion, Quagsires is the most likely person, a belief I hold because of his continued stretch of strange, starkly un-townsy posts.

Also, yes, while I initially voted Quagsires for "prodding purposes," to see if he could clear up the airs he had created around himself, I became more sure that Quagsires was scum after he continued to make these odd posts. Since then my votes for Quagsires have been primarily to pressure and maybe successfully lynch a man I think is mafia.

(Re: Ditto) Where does this conclusion come from? Scum like doing this, intentionally, just as much as pissed-off town. It's called Appeal to Emotion.

(Re: Crux) He's given an "explanation" for his reluctance to contribute anything at all today which is not acceptable, not by a long shot. Also, he did NOT give an explanation for his SUSPICIONS, which is even worse. I'm amazed at how I'm the only one pressing this fact.
I understand that anyone can say or do anything on Day 1, and it doesn't confirm their village-ness or scum-ness. I found Ditto to feel somewhat genuine in his annoyance, even though I know I can't prove it to be true. Knowing Ditto, I don't think he would have reacted that way as scum.

I agree that Crux needs to post way more and that he needs to say more substantial things. I am especially worried that he hasn't posted in the last few days. However, this behavior seems more to me like that of an uninterested villager than that of a mafia. He IS suspicious, definitely, as it is easy for a mafia to post that and hide away for the rest of the day, but it seems to be like it wouldn't be the best mafia tactic. Wouldn't his teammates get him to post more substantial things, to avoid suspicion?
I really REALLY want to provide a counterwagon to change to but none of you are going with my suggestions and Cereza is probably just as bad a lynch. Unfortunately, Quagsires will be RB'd until he dies, most likely, so unless Cereza is scum, the change in wagons is probably not worth it.
Define: RB

I do agree that Cereza is a terrible roll. I would, however, support a Staraptor Call roll, if you feel that lynching Quagsires is not an option. He has made consistently bad posts and has yet to actually explain his reasoning for thinking that anyone is suspicious. Quagsires is scummy, and Staraptor Call is almost as scummy, so I would support a lynch on either of them.

If it weren't for the fact that everyone was hopping on the Quagsires bandwagon, I would be immutable in my lynching of Quagsires. However, I'm now doubting that this roll is a good idea. The fact that it has fairly ubiquitous support from all but Blue Tornado and Quagsires himself is strange to say the least.

BT, if you are on board with a Staraptor Call lynch, then I think we should attempt to get the counter-roll on him.
 

zorbees

Chwa for no reason!
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
i think rb means role blocked / hooked. btw i still support an scall lynch

EDIT: aska, what is your opinion on quagsire's claim of alliance checker?
 
A few things:
Please no intentional god-kills, I hope one of the hosts can speak to this issue.

Quagsires does have a point in not saying explicitly who he thinks is villager. If one person is too easily trusted by a large group, they would be a very easy target for the mafia. While I am considerably surprised Quagsires bothered to post, I don't think he really defended his inactivity remotely well, given his IRC presence.

Also: any reason for choosing Leethoof? A random alliance check who you can suspect won't talk much leaves us at a disadvantage. I looked back at your post and you only ever asked him once to post, you neither took to his side nor attacked him (for that persuasion forgetting). Leethoof being clean seems like an easy fake-claim because it doesn't really help much, and if you had thought ahead you would know it wouldn't help us much.

In short, I don't really buy it. For a major villager role you have done almost little to help the village. You posted extremely little when the lynch came on you, and you posted extremely late with an iffy alliance check claim.

If you are an alliance checker, lynching you would set us back a lot; however, I think a Staraptor Call lynch wouldn't be that bad in your place. I'll keep my vote on Quagsires for now, unless someone has a really strong opinion for or against Staraptor Call.
 

Yeti

dark saturday
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Yeah see I wondered if Quagsires was trying to "hide" what he felt was a vital village role by going inactive, to try and "trick" (?) people into thinking nah he's just a useless vanilla obv or he'd bother to defend himself. But clearly that backfired. I never got particularly strong scum vibes from him, HOWEVER, I agree with billy that I'm not entirely sold on the claim.

Alliance checker/inspector, hooker and bodyguard are the three most likely roles to save yourself. And, if you are mafia fakeclaiming to save yourself from a lynch, you might even get the REAL one to counterclaim, namely if they are a somewhat less experienced player! Unlike DLE in the Desktop Dungeons or w/e NOC, where he sat on his claim watching the mafia conspiracy guy oust his fellow mafians, a newer inspect/sheriff might promptly counter claim, and then be a sure target for either kill or hook, seeing as BG+SG can't work in tandem.

In short, I've seen this story before, and I'm not fully buying it. Finn claimed doctor but turned out to be mafia to save himself. However, Quag's inactivity in this game is still really freakin weird, as it wouldn't take THAT much to defend himself earlier without claiming, before he got 7 votes on him.

brb buddying billymills harder unf unf unf

The only connection between Leet and Quag I have down is a slight buddying of Quag by Leet in 310. I know Quag likes his RNG, so I can see why he would have randchecked, but, I also enjoy how his convenient randcheck is the guy that's persuaded and thus if it's a mafia persuader, "clean". Defending your scumbuddy, perchance? I personally would have inspected someone by name instead of RNGing, but, whatever (yes I know namechecking is dumb, I don't know who I would have gone for but I would have selected my target based on previous games so I could get info on someone who will talk a lot and give me opinions about other people while I know where they're coming from).

PS quags I am always "defensive" because I usually answer every time my name is said so nobody can later accuse me of ignoring it or having a bad defense etc!!! I have encouraged everyone to suspect me and find as many scumtells in my posts as possible all game, so please, continue to show my efforts to look highly suspicious are working quite well.

Not to jump too hard onto the Staraptor Call wagon of "good alternative lynch" but I would be in favor of this. Let me know if you would like my reasons.
 

askaninjask

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Oh!

I did not see Quagsires's claim of alliance checker. His claiming it doesn't guarantee that he isn't lying, and he may be fishing for roles in the village before he dies. About "not responding" to your "defenses", you didn't post very much for me to actually consider. In #454 you posted 3 paragraphs of acting cautiously and saying nothing, then said some more nothing about MK Ultra. I did not feel the need to respond to this.

For Quagsires: Wouldn't you have been more worried about being lynched, and more interested, and therefore more likely to post more frequently as a power village role? The defense I previously thought of for you (Oh well if Quagsires were mafia he'd care more and therefore post more) is now defunct. Why didn't you post for these long stretches of time?

Your more recent post has been more substantial. I'll read through it now and respond to it.

EDIT: Having read it, I'm glad that FINALLY you've posted something substantial. I hope you're telling the truth with your role, and many of your reads seem decent and at least a little well argued for (unlike in your previous posts). I'm going to respond to your read on me here:

askaninjask- He seems frustrated more out of wanting a lynch of me to go through when he's not going to try and rebut anything I've said or quote me than actually things stalling (though the latter isn't exactly false). However, despite this, he seems to be one of the ones more interested in the discussion and seems to avoid quite a bit of suspicion that way.
If you're talking about my #476, I was frustrated that the day had gone on for another 24 hours with no developments. I hoped to simultaneously spark conversation and determine who I thought was the most suspicious. That was the source of my frustration, not the fact that you hadn't been lynched.
 

DetroitLolcat

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Well, I've only studied posts in the last five pages or so due to unexpected busyness, so I need to hold off on Dummy007's question for right now.

For starters, Quagsires' claim of alliance checker does not seem legitimate, and Quagsires' inactivity especially when he was suspected of dodging the thread (or at least that's what I infer from billymills' post on page 19) seems truthful. If Quagsires is really a village power role, then he would probably want to start proving this.

Quagsires' proposal of a suicide means very little when he's pretty much a dead man walking. Honestly, Sire has been on recently but hasn't posted in this thread (except for his last minute thoughts earlier this page) since he became the prime suspect on page 19. I understand inactivity as I have been pretty inactive myself, but inactivity is a lot more suspicious when you're the prime suspect. It's almost like he's waiting for someone to make a mistake and shift suspicion away from him.

I would call Quagsires the best lynch target at this time, though Staraptor Call will have some explaining to do come tomorrow.
 
Alliance checker/inspector, hooker and bodyguard are the three most likely roles to save yourself. And, if you are mafia fakeclaiming to save yourself from a lynch, you might even get the REAL one to counterclaim, namely if they are a somewhat less experienced player! Unlike DLE in the Desktop Dungeons or w/e NOC, where he sat on his claim watching the mafia conspiracy guy oust his fellow mafians, a newer inspect/sheriff might promptly counter claim, and then be a sure target for either kill or hook, seeing as BG+SG can't work in tandem.
I think this is a really good argument, even though yeti sux. Daletterel and Quagsires' play differ considerably, to the point that I doubt Quagsires would reasonably be inspector. Quagsires does seem to mimic role fishers instead.

Daletterel mixed trolling with decent posting, and sorta slid under the radar for most of the game even though he was somewhat inactive, most importantly, he still contributed when he was called out. Quagsires seems to have alternated inactivity with poor posting. His only good post was his last one which really could have come a lot earlier.

I'm pretty sure Daletterel's strange posting from the previous game was to ensure he was kept alive by the mafia, so they wouldn't know figure out he was inspector early. He remained somewhat suspicious so he wouldn't be targeted for the night kill. Quagsires, on the other hand, has risen to the top of the suspects and hasn't really tried to defend himself.

EDIT because I've already posted a lot recently:
Just noting that Ditto and Staraptor Call were the first two people to get away from the Quagsires lynch.
 

kingofmars

Its 2015 somewhere
won the 2nd Smogon VGC Tournamentis a Past SPL Champion
Kingofkongs: If you could be guilty for not reading the thread, you'd be dead many times over by now. We all apologize for the daunting size, but you need to stop spamming, "BLARG _____ IS MAFIA" when you are offering no rebuttal to what they are saying, or no comment on their rebuttal.
Commenting on your first point, I'm pretty sure that if anyone didn't read the thread, they'd be a lynch target. Also Quagsires, if you were hitler, you have personally murdered over 11 million people, you monster. Anyways, if you feel like I should be commenting on things besides who I believe is mafia and not comment on who I think is clean, then do tell what should I have in my posts?
 

Ditto

/me huggles
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ugh! Did we really get ourselves into this situation on D1? first off @@Unvote@@. I don't really feel like going back to find my previous lynch post right now. I am still not convinced that Quagsires is actually alliance checker, but unless someone counterclaims (which would be revealing our AC on D1 to get a mafia, and might be a bad idea) I don't think we have any choice to stop the lynch on him for now. This doesn't mean that we should fully trust Quags yet, cause it could be really easy to fake claim that to save himself. Cause if someone did counterclaim, then he'd be in the same situation before he claimed, but his team would now know our AC.
 

askaninjask

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Ok, so the above post is really suspicious.

Ditto, who has already previously attempted to get away from the Quagsires lynch, now is IN FULL FAVOR of this new claim from Quagsires. In my opinion, now a lynch on Quagsires will give us loads of information. If he's mafia, then Ditto surely is too. If he's clean, then Leethoof is surely clean.

EDIT: that awkward moment when "the above post" is not on the same page...
 
I would like to make the case for, in the event we decide Quagsires is not the best lynch, a Cezera lynch. My original concerns can be read in my post
Make special note about Unclesam really really wanting to be inspected.

I decided to finally take a look at the rules, and rule 10 stood out to me:

10. All inspections on the mafia group (whose name be revealed when the game begins) will be 100% accurate. However not all inspections will be 100% accurate!

Unclesam, so desperately trying to get inspected reminds me of Fallout 3 mafia, where again Unclesam tried desperately to get inspected, and succeeded, even when I called him out as wolf day 1. Rule 10 seems to hint, and we should be able to know for sure tomorrow, that there is a wolf. I will also say that the last time Walrein hosted, he promised Yeti a really powerful role in order to get her to join.

Even if Unclesam gets his wish to be inspected by night 2 at the latest, we should definitely consider the possibility he (well cezera now) is neutral.

I still support the Quagsires lynch.


KingofKongs, is there any reason your previous post included bolded words? I'd guess I was going to be hit with a Gigantic Meteor or something.
 
I pretty much don't buy this (that is, Quag's claim) at all, it's more likely we hit a mafia that is trying to fish out an important role than that an important role is derping this hard
 

Ditto

/me huggles
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askaninjask, please reread my post again. I'm not sure if you missed something, but I am in no way in full favor of the new claim as I thought I made clear in my post. I just don't think it is wise to lynch a possible AC at this moment.

If you guys still lynch Quagsires and he comes up AC, then I'd suspect aska first.
 
I don't really think you can fault Aska for anything except possibly buddying cezera. All he did was reiterate mine and Yeti's comments. If anything, he's just trying to finish off this day as fast as possible, which iirc he's been wanting to do since his first post.

If anything, I'd ask him to come up with some of his own opinions, he's been copying Yeti and myself for the most part, at least recently.
 

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