Pokémon Noivern

[ChopperDave]

The confusion chance doesn't need to be reliable.

You're not using both moves 100 times, you're using either one less than ten times per battle. But yes, Hurricane has low accuracy.

Draco Meteor + Hurricane. Can't go wrong. Have you tried U-turn?

You're missing the point. All I'm saying is that over time, Boomburst's higher accuracy (and higher base BP) gives it higher damage output. Sure, there may be battles where it never misses. It's also pretty likely that there will be battles where it misses two or three times in a row.

Hurricane hits a little harder... when it hits. But from battle to battle, Boomburst will end up doing more overall damage simply due to its reliability. IMO, this makes it a better pick.

Hurricane definitely has a place, particularly for rain teams that raise it's accuracy to 100%, or extremely lucky trainers ;). But basic probability indicates that Boomburst is theoretically the superior move.

 

[Hidious]

You're missing the point. All I'm saying is that over time, Boomburst's higher accuracy (and higher base BP) gives it higher damage output. Sure, there may be battles where it never misses. It's also pretty likely that there will be battles where it misses two or three times in a row.

Hurricane hits a little harder... when it hits. But from battle to battle, Boomburst will end up doing more overall damage simply due to its reliability. IMO, this makes it a better pick.

Hurricane definitely has a place, particularly for rain teams that raise it's accuracy to 100%, or extremely lucky trainers ;). But basic probability indicates that Boomburst is theoretically the superior move.

You are only factoring in expected value in situations in which both hit neutrally. This is not the case in reality. Hurricane will do double damage when it hits fighting or grass. Boomburst won't do any damage when a ghost switches in. Hurricane will do half damage to electric. You can't say boomburst will do more damage over time if you haven't factored in this. They aren't like fire blast and flamethrower.

 

[Shiruba]

You are only factoring in expected value in situations in which both hit neutrally. This is not the case in reality. Hurricane will do double damage when it hits fighting or grass. Boomburst won't do any damage when a ghost switches in. Hurricane will do half damage to electric. You can't say boomburst will do more damage over time if you haven't factored in this. They aren't like fire blast and flamethrower.

-And you're forgetting that Hurricane is resisted by electrics, while Flamethrower still hits Grasses for SE damage and won't miss at bad opportunities, while fighters are rarer now because of Talonflame, the Ghost buff, and faeries [read: Azumarill, Mega Mawile, maybe Togekiss].
Furthermore, Boomburst does get through subs, which is cool beans.

Again, why are we comparing them? They're different moves for different purposes for different teams.

 

[ChopperDave]

You are only factoring in expected value in situations in which both hit neutrally. This is not the case in reality. Hurricane will do double damage when it hits fighting or grass. Boomburst won't do any damage when a ghost switches in. Hurricane will do half damage to electric. You can't say boomburst will do more damage over time if you haven't factored in this. They aren't like fire blast and flamethrower.

Right, and Hurricane hits x2 against Bug as well. If you really need that coverage that it may be worth taking, but Flamethrower already hits for super-effective against Grass and Bug, and I don't think that there are a lot of fighting types that would survive a Boomburst or Draco Meteor.

The general utility of a Flying type move is that it hits neutrally against a lot of guys. Boomburst hits neutrally against a lot of the same guys, minus Ghosts.

It's true that my analysis is simplified and doesn't account for Hurricane's super-effective hits or confusion chance. If you think that makes up for its lower overall damage output when hitting neutrally, that's fine.

Personally, I use Noivern as a revenge killer and hit-and-runner, so I use Hurricane/Boomburst as a way to hit stuff neutrally that Draco, Flamethrower, and Focus Miss don't hit super-effectively. I think Boomburst tends to perform better in that role, outside of the rain.

 

[Seth Vilo]

Personally, I use Noivern as a revenge killer and hit-and-runner, so I use Hurricane/Boomburst as a way to hit stuff neutrally that Draco, Flamethrower, and Focus Miss don't hit super-effectively. I think Boomburst tends to perform better in that role, outside of the rain.

I run Noivern for that same role as well, and have been loving Boomburst in my experiences. I have had way to many Hurricanes miss in my time, let alone Focus Miss. So, if I'm sending in Noivern to revenge kill or clean up an opposing team's pieces, I don't want my clean up to be ruined by a miss of Hurricane or the constant SpA drop of Draco. Its been said a lot in this thread, but Boomburst is a settling between power and reliability that hasn't really been seen before (other than Gen 1 Hyper Beam...). The Normal typing makes it on par with Ghosts and Dragons in my experience too; an immunity, and few resistances. It's a great catch-all move I've been loving.
Also, the mere threat that a Hurricane could be incoming is great to have, even if not carrying it (until the opponent wises up to that). So many Fighters switch out of Noivern immediately, letting me U-turn away to my counter and keep screwing with them. It's wonderful, and much preferred to Switcheroo for my experience--probably because I have a Scarf Rotom-H for Tricking if need be.

Noivern rocks. New fav.
#ramble

 

[bwebber]

I'm sure variations of this have already been posted but Switcheroo Noivern is such a good anti lead.

Noivern @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Infiltrator
Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
EVs: 252 SAtk, 4 SDef, 252 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- U-Turn
- Switcheroo

Having merely good 97 SAtk is a blessing in disguise to this Noivern, since it has enough punch to force switches but also weak enough to make it such an easy lure for mixed walls and such, and of course pink blobs. Noivern's move pool also makes Switcheroo unexpected. If you're facing a hazard lead, lock them into their hazard and U-Turn out into a Noivern-counter counter (since no way they'll stay in, they're locked into a useless move after all). If it's an offensive lead, nuke them with Draco.

Forretress is a really good partner to this, since it can sponge Ice + Dragon + Fairy (though I've learned Florges' Moonblast still isn't fun to switch in to; there's also others but I can't remember them all), spin the hazards the opposing lead was locked into, set hazards of your own, and round out a VoltTurn combo. Lead Smeargle is also hilarious to deal with; I always U-Turn out if I see one, and switch into Overcoat Forretress (trust me guys this is actually good) to negate the Spore. Then it's just free hazards and their Smeargle will die if you sneeze on it. These two are such a good combo, and the only thing I've found for this to not work (as an early game strategy, of course) are lead Galvantula and lead Mamoswine, but those things are easy enough to deal with. Also Trick Rotom. Seeing those leads to hilarity.

This also works as a semi effective revenge killer later on. Also, while Noivern has a massive move pool, it doesn't need anything but those four moves above for this set to work. Infiltrator is also best since you don't really care what item you're picking up, since it's almost always Sash/Leftovers/other special wall items, and those stupid Sub Klefki sets can go fuck themselves. It also lets Noivern be a better revenge killer later on. Scarf makes Switcheroo almost never fail; I tried Specs because I didn't think I'd be using Switcheroo nearly 100% of the time on my first move, but Specs Sylveon/Florges aren't fun. ._.

 

[shack]

I'm thinking about that now, since I absolutely hate that thing.

On the other hand, you would never want to switch in Noivern on Klefki, since prankster twave= paralyzed noivern = useless noivern.

Well they both are leads so if you want to take a gamble with it. I just like having Frisk so I know if I want to switcharoo someone's item or not.

 

[Richitt]

If anyone's compared them, can anyone tell me what important KOs Noivern misses if he goes Life orb over choice specs? Assuming both are timid nature, max spatk/max spd ev.

 

[Seth Vilo]

If anyone's compared them, can anyone tell me what important KOs Noivern misses if he goes Life orb over choice specs? Assuming both are timid nature, max spatk/max spd ev.

I haven't compared them, so this may or may not be of use to you to reply to, but here goes. With only 97 SpA, I would think the extra 20% damage goes a really long way in general smacking things around. Also, in my use, its more the lack of LO recoil than the extra damage. I found that with my LO set, I usually only Draco'd or Boombursted, then switched/U-turned out. You're weak to Rocks, so the damage adds up really quickly with LO...

 

[Richitt]

I haven't compared them, so this may or may not be of use to you to reply to, but here goes. With only 97 SpA, I would think the extra 20% damage goes a really long way in general smacking things around. Also, in my use, its more the lack of LO recoil than the extra damage. I found that with my LO set, I usually only Draco'd or Boombursted, then switched/U-turned out. You're weak to Rocks, so the damage adds up really quickly with LO...

Makes sense, i guess. There were still times when I wish I could just click Boomburst and get ready to Draco Meteor something else afterwards.

 

[Seth Vilo]

Makes sense, i guess. There were still times when I wish I could just click Boomburst and get ready to Draco Meteor something else afterwards.

Oh believe me, I do as well. But I've found Specs helps in its general hit-and-run way I've played it. Come in on something not Scarved or a base 130 for revenging, go to your counter to whatever they sent in afterwards. The next best thing I guess is bluffing with Wise Glasses, a Plate of some sort, or some other non-obvious item. But I figure that 97 SpA bites you in the butt again. I need to run calcs on this...

 

[FurryGah]

Specs bluff with Silk Scarf Boomburst anyone?

 

[Seth Vilo]

Specs bluff with Silk Scarf Boomburst anyone?

Given it's already wearing a scarf of sorts, and a white one at that, I guess it was meant to be! I actually want to try it out just because of that... Steel comes in after Boomburst only to be Flamethrowered to death. Noivern, you're going to be fabulous.

 

[pokemick17]

boom burst is one of noiverns trump cards. you gotta combine it with that life orb if your wanting like a special attack tank. combine it with dragon pulse and night slash for coverage and ur set

 

[WhiteZekrom786]

Here's an option: Noivern could have a Choice Specs item and you give it Draco Meteor, Flamethrower, and Hurricane and then the 4th move slot could be Switcheroo to screw other walls down and it would be even better with the Frisk ability. How's that sound?

 

[Terminate421]

night slash

Welcome to the metagame. Where you have to research your topic thoroughly before posting.

Noivern has access to Dark Pulse IF it's going to use a dark type move. Why would you use Night Slash as part of his not very ideal physical attack?

Boomburst is key to using him in most scenarios but he can do more than special sweep.

 

[pokemick17]

Welcome to the metagame. Where you have to research your topic thoroughly before posting.

Noivern has access to Dark Pulse IF it's going to use a dark type move. Why would you use Night Slash as part of his not very ideal physical attack?

Boomburst is key to using him in most scenarios but he can do more than special sweep.

im sorry i was just going for a dark type move for him. i didnt search it up on serebii or anything

 

[Gametamer03]

Personally I prefer Hurricane to Boomburst. Yea Boomburst has better accuracy but you got to keep in mind that Hurricane's accuracy is 100 in when it's raining. I personally use my Noivern in my rain team. He fits in perfect. However on a nonraining team Boomburst is probably the better option. As far as ability's go, I love Frisk when paired with Switcheroo but I love infiltrator for the fun it provides. Regardless, you can't go wrong with Noivern! He's one of the best pokes to come out lately! :D Enjoy him guys and I look forward to seeing him used in more and more ways in the future :D

 

[SalsaShark]

I've been using this set on my Noivern:

Dragon Pulse, Roost, Super Fang, U-Turn. With EVs invested in speed and HP (considered special attack, but I'd rather take a better hit than give a better hit considering the nature of the set.)

I like it so far. It's a fairly decent scout. Maybe even OU; it's one of these Pokemon that seems to play better than it stats would indicate. At least, so far it has for me. Dragon Pulse still has good neutral coverage, even with fairies running amok. Super Fang is to take a chunk out of walls that would normally frustrate the hell out of you. And well, Roost and U-Turn are probably obvious - recovery and wreaking havoc, respectively. Noivern is so fast that the second it sees something it hates, U-Turn gets it outta there and into a much more favorable match-up. Barely anything out-speeds it.

I think people are too eager to abuse Noivern's extensive movepool. Moves like Hurricane and Boomburst are awesome, but I thunk they function primarily as a distraction from Noivern's optimal role. I don't know, I could be wrong; I haven't used it *that* much yet. But its role as a scout seems much more manageable in OU when you consider its stat distribution, even with those powerful attacks. Maybe if it's special attack were higher...but it isn't.

 

[Ulevo]

I've been using this set on my Noivern:

Dragon Pulse, Roost, Super Fang, U-Turn. With EVs invested in speed and HP (considered special attack, but I'd rather take a better hit than give a better hit considering the nature of the set.)

I like it so far. It's a fairly decent scout. Maybe even OU; it's one of these Pokemon that seems to play better than it stats would indicate. At least, so far it has for me. Dragon Pulse still has good neutral coverage, even with fairies running amok. Super Fang is to take a chunk out of walls that would normally frustrate the hell out of you. And well, Roost and U-Turn are probably obvious - recovery and wreaking havoc, respectively. Noivern is so fast that the second it sees something it hates, U-Turn gets it outta there and into a much more favorable match-up. Barely anything out-speeds it.

I think people are too eager to abuse Noivern's extensive movepool. Moves like Hurricane and Boomburst are awesome, but I thunk they function primarily as a distraction from Noivern's optimal role. I don't know, I could be wrong; I haven't used it *that* much yet. But its role as a scout seems much more manageable in OU when you consider its stat distribution, even with those powerful attacks. Maybe if it's special attack were higher...but it isn't.

Why use Dragon Pulse > Boomburst.

Boomburst only has two problems associated with it. It's resisted by Steel and Rock, and Ghost are immune. This all being considered, Fairy's now are immune to Dragon Pulse, and there's relatively equal number of Fairys to Ghosts running around. Steel is very common and resists both. They're relatively similar in this regard. However, Boomburst gives you higher overall base power, and goes through Substitute.

 

[adman2]

I've been using this set on my Noivern:

Dragon Pulse, Roost, Super Fang, U-Turn. With EVs invested in speed and HP (considered special attack, but I'd rather take a better hit than give a better hit considering the nature of the set.)

I like it so far. It's a fairly decent scout. Maybe even OU; it's one of these Pokemon that seems to play better than it stats would indicate. At least, so far it has for me. Dragon Pulse still has good neutral coverage, even with fairies running amok. Super Fang is to take a chunk out of walls that would normally frustrate the hell out of you. And well, Roost and U-Turn are probably obvious - recovery and wreaking havoc, respectively. Noivern is so fast that the second it sees something it hates, U-Turn gets it outta there and into a much more favorable match-up. Barely anything out-speeds it.

I think people are too eager to abuse Noivern's extensive movepool. Moves like Hurricane and Boomburst are awesome, but I thunk they function primarily as a distraction from Noivern's optimal role. I don't know, I could be wrong; I haven't used it *that* much yet. But its role as a scout seems much more manageable in OU when you consider its stat distribution, even with those powerful attacks. Maybe if it's special attack were higher...but it isn't.

This sounds a better version of my old Crobat set for the Rain Dance team I used in Pokemon Pearl Wifi. Super Fang would have been great on that old one. It actually worked pretty well. . .

In case you were wondering, the Crobat was something like:

Jolly, 252 HP, 252 Speed @ Damp Rock

Brave Bird
Rain Dance
Roost
U-Turn

 

[vonK]

I've been using this set on my Noivern:

Dragon Pulse, Roost, Super Fang, U-Turn. With EVs invested in speed and HP (considered special attack, but I'd rather take a better hit than give a better hit considering the nature of the set.)

I like it so far. It's a fairly decent scout. Maybe even OU; it's one of these Pokemon that seems to play better than it stats would indicate. At least, so far it has for me. Dragon Pulse still has good neutral coverage, even with fairies running amok. Super Fang is to take a chunk out of walls that would normally frustrate the hell out of you. And well, Roost and U-Turn are probably obvious - recovery and wreaking havoc, respectively. Noivern is so fast that the second it sees something it hates, U-Turn gets it outta there and into a much more favorable match-up. Barely anything out-speeds it.

I think people are too eager to abuse Noivern's extensive movepool. Moves like Hurricane and Boomburst are awesome, but I thunk they function primarily as a distraction from Noivern's optimal role. I don't know, I could be wrong; I haven't used it *that* much yet. But its role as a scout seems much more manageable in OU when you consider its stat distribution, even with those powerful attacks. Maybe if it's special attack were higher...but it isn't.

Crobat runs this but better with a better attack, better speed and better typing. Seriously that build is just an inferior Crobat.

 

[SomeDrunkRockLee]

Crobat runs this but better with a better attack, better speed and better typing. Seriously that build is just an inferior Crobat.

You didn't mention the fact that Crobat's STAB Brave Bird both hits harder than Dragon Pulse and allows it to actually do damage to fairies as well.

 

[vonK]

You didn't mention the fact that Crobat's STAB Brave Bird both hits harder than Dragon Pulse and allows it to actually do damage to fairies as well.

That's what I meant by a better attack, rather than his attack stat which is also better. But yeah flying is probably one of the most dangerous STABs out there right now as seen by Mega-Pinsir and Talonflame, and only Electric, Rock and Steel type pokemon can hope to stand up to it. But most Electric pokemon are frail and only like 2 rock pokemon (Rhyperior and Tyranitar) ever see play so generally only steel pokemon are a problem, but Noviern's Dragon Pulse does pathetic damage against them also. In 9/10 situations Crobat just completely outclasses Noviern, and in the 10th you'd be better off switching out anyways.

 

[Ulevo]

So I'm struggling to find what this thing is actually good for.

If you look at what it's pros are, it has high speed, Boom Burst, Frisk, and a couple of other neat little things. Problem is that it doesn't really have much worth when compared to Flygon and Latios/Latias. If you're using it as a standard Specs set, Latios does the job better. It flies without inheriting the Flying type weaknesses, Dragon Pulse does more damage than Boom Burst on Noivern, it has better resistances, isn't weak to Stealth Rock, still OHKO's almost everything it needs to with HP Fire compared to Flamethrower, and they both have item swaps. On top of all this, Latios does more damage. The only things Noivern has left is Frisk (useful, but eh...), Focus Miss, Hurrican with terribad accuracy, and U-Turn. And U-Turn is always going to be uninvested, coming off of 70 Base attack. And if you wanted something fast with U-Turn, Flygon does a better job. It's immune to Thunderwave and Electric moves, is able to go Scarfed for good speed, has better resistances, and it's U-Turn will actually do something.

It's speed isn't even that good. I mean, it IS good. But when compared to Latias and Latios, the only things it is outspeeding is Geninja, Tornadus-T, Azelf (?), Mega Absol and Houndoom (?), Serperior, Tornadus, Thunderus (Prankster...), Gengar, Espeon, and the Eon dragons themselves. I feel like the speed you gain isn't enough to compensate for the advantages you give up.