Pokémon Noivern

[RockStarFish]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but Noiverns problem is that it just barely doesn't kill the enemy Poke that it should. with that odd spk stat of 97. If that's the problem then I was thinking he'd team up really well with Spikers, and Stealth Rock setters (Ferrothorn). Seeing as how he is extremely fast and learns Whirlwind (!)... The damage he lacks would be made up and then some with the right entry hazards! as he is can almost pick and choose what to KO and what to just Whirlwind away. Unfortunately he doesn't have dragon tail to phase out ghosts, but he does learn shadow ball. and he uses it very effectively.

Phazers need to be bulky due to the lowered priority of phazing moves. While Noivern doesn't lack bulk (85/80/80 is respectable), it simply doesn't have enough bulk to be an effective phazer like Hippowdon, Skarmory, bulky Dragonite, or even Throh.

If Noivern runs Whirlwind, it loses coverage or power; if you're using Noivern to secure OHKOes or 2HKOes, it can't afford to lose either of those. Your best bet with this idea is to pair it with Ferrothorn or Forretress since they can set multiple hazards and have good defensive synergy with Noivern.

 

[Coldgrits]

I do not see Noivern as a effective Phazer. Effective Phazers can sponge a Hit from a Setup Sweeper and switch them out to keep their stats normal. Whirlwind is just bad on a Pokemon like Noivern as it has Negative Priority meaning it'll go last against everything that isn't using Trick Room and Noivern dosen't have the bulk to stay in and take hits. I feel Noivern was made for Speed and it should be using it, as it's his main niche over other Dragons aka a effective Revenge Killer.

I didn't know whirlwind had negative priority and that is lame.... Ok, ok, that totally ruins my plan of a Polywrath phazer that uses swift swim and circle throws, dang.... Noiverns speed IS it's strength, So I guess running Choice specs, with Full speed investments, and rounding of the SPK to at least 100 would make it do good chunks of damage in theory.

 

[meb9000]

With noivern I feel like you almost have to run choice specs set because if you don't you lack man power to be a threat this makes noivern very predictable and has the danger of becoming set up bait, I agree with the writer of the article, I think it will be uu

Even with choice specs I have been disappointed with Noivern, I ran a Choice Specs Modest Noivern with max Speed and Spec. Attack EVs on a Rain team, and Hurricanes were failing to get OHKOs on neutral targets. Noivern would then get diced up with his very sub-par defenses. I suppose Draco Meteor may have been the way to go on a neutral target, but then I would be choice-locked with a -2 Spec. Attack.

 

[xero_k]

In my experience with Noivern (wi-fi, so I guess take this with a grain of salt) I've found it to be a decent sweep up pokemon. If I use it too early, it tends to not quite cut it (which is the impression I'm getting here) but later on when the enemy is a little more worn and/or their bulkier pokemon are down/ close to down, this thing can wipe up what's left. I've also found it can take hits decently which is nice when an opponent has priority. I've mostly ran Air Slash over Hurricane because I like consistency, although I may shift to Hurricane at a later point.

I started out excited to breed it up, then was a little underwhelmed with the damage it was causing at its max, then pleasantly surprised when it would turn a game around right toward the end.

The main point I'd be making here is that its amazing speed and respectable special attack can make it great at revenge killing (have seen this a few time in this thread) and a late-game sweeper. Of course, this is likely to be very different on the simulators and against fully IVed and intelligently built teams, but I think timing Noivern's presence is key. It definitely doesn't have the power needed to be a standalone sweeper, but that speed is wonderful.

 

[Drybones]

Noivern @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Hasty Nature
- Taunt
- U-turn
- Super Fang
- Draco Meteor

I've been using the above set to mild success as a lead / fairy wallbreaker. I set up a weakness policy dragonite team that needed a lead that would beat status leads like smeargle and breloom. I realized I could toss super fang on there to lure in fairies and put them in KO range of a +1 draggy.

 

[romanime]

Noivern @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Hasty Nature
- Taunt
- U-turn
- Super Fang
- Draco Meteor

I've been using the above set to mild success as a lead / fairy wallbreaker. I set up a weakness policy dragonite team that needed a lead that would beat status leads like smeargle and breloom. I realized I could toss super fang on there to lure in fairies and put them in KO range of a +1 draggy.

I actually really like this set, but hasty nature kind of defeats the purpose of investing in HP. U-turn is going to do pitiful damage anyways, I would go timid and put the last 4 EVs in something not attack.

Edit: And I assume you meant "Spe" not "Spd".

 

[zyxas]

Noivern is not strong enough to spam draco meteors, so after you launch the first one, you are setup bait. At -2 you can't deal significant damage so if you kill your target with the meteor, you are giving a guaranteed free turn. You kill something, blaziken/lucario/megakanga/talonflame/scizor/farfetch'd set up on your face, you are in great danger.
Not worth it.

 

[Dyakodamus]

Noivern @ Life Orb
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 SpAtck /4 Atk / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Taunt
- U-turn
- Flamethrower
- Draco Meteor

I've been using this set for quite some time now and really like it. I use it to lead of with. Frisk tells you if you run into unusual scarf leads or focus sash leads. Flamethrower dents or OhKo's pokes like skarmory and Ferrothorn.
Also very usefull against Blaziken and Mega-Blaziken since Noivern resists both stabs and OHko's with Draco Meteor which still deals a hefty amount of dmg.
Noiverns biggest problem is getting walled so you'll see a lot of switch-ins that you can predict with U-Turn to keep momentum or Taunt them or Straight up take 50-70% out of them with flamethrower/draco .

All in all a very basic but solid Set that's mostly used as an Anti-Lead with benefits. Needs solid Team support though to really benefit of the U-Turns and Taunts.

 

[romanime]

Noivern is not strong enough to spam draco meteors, so after you launch the first one, you are setup bait. At -2 you can't deal significant damage so if you kill your target with the meteor, you are giving a guaranteed free turn. You kill something, blaziken/lucario/megakanga/talonflame/scizor/farfetch'd set up on your face, you are in great danger.
Not worth it.

I don't know which set you are referring to, but LO Noivern can do plenty with SE attacks at -2 and lead/scout Noivern can taunt then u-turn to an appropriate counter so it is not entirely set up bait.

 

[Lord Jesseus]

I don't want to get too far off topic from Noivern but there are several Penguin species known to build nests. If Scizor gets it, how would Empoleon not?

I'm pretty sure the move Roost is just meant to be the Pokemon landing on the ground, from the air, to rest and recuperate. You can only do that if you're actually in the air in the first place. That's why Scizor, Beedrill and Dunsparce can learn it while Empoleon can't; even though they aren't Flying Type they are flying Pokemon. Empoleon definitely is not.
The only Pokemon I can think of that has usable wings but doesn't get Roost is Heracross, but considering how often those wings are actually seen its hardly a surprise.

 

[Terminate421]

I'm pretty sure the move Roost is just meant to be the Pokemon landing on the ground, from the air, to rest and recuperate. You can only do that if you're actually in the air in the first place. That's why Scizor, Beedrill and Dunsparce can learn it while Empoleon can't; even though they aren't Flying Type they are flying Pokemon. Empoleon definitely is not.
The only Pokemon I can think of that has usable wings but doesn't get Roost is Heracross, but considering how often those wings are actually seen its hardly a surprise.

I wish my edit went through to you because fucking Dodrio can learn Roost.

OT: Noivern may be the best Switcheroo sapper I can think of.

I run him with this:

Noivern @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 SpAtck /4 HP / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Taunt
- Switcheroo
- Flamethrower
- Boomburst

Simply lose that choice scarf on the first move (So long as they don't have one, and preferably on something like Blissey) and BAM you just might made one of his pokemon worthless.

Taunt is useful for later support sapping just in case. Hell, it could force a switch if you get it on the right guy.

Then Boomburst and Flamethrower for Damage. Boomburst hits harder than his own stab and flamethrower covers those steel types and at least can hit fairies. Plus chance to burn.

Not the most perfect set, but I'm thinking Delphox and Noivern are two pokemon of their own class: Item Sappers.

 

[Lord Jesseus]

I wish my edit went through to you because fucking Dodrio can learn Roost.

Dodrio can fly*. It's flying type. It has wings*. It learns fly. It doesn't get much more flying than that.

*Yellow Pokedex entry: Its short wings make flying difficult. Instead, this Pokémon runs at high speed on developed legs.
Red/Blue: A bird that makes up for its poor flying with its fast foot speed. Leaves giant footprints.
Both of these state that it can fly, albeit poorly, and yellow explicitly mentions its wings.

 

[Raegar]

I run Noivern like this

Noivern @ Shell Bell
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 SpAtck /4 HP / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Taunt
- U-Turn
- Super Fang
- Boomburst

It scouts and destroys tanks that invest in hp while healing itself thanks to always doing consistent damage with super fang. Personally I love it like this, might try to breed another one for the switcheroo as it sounds interesting and screws tanks even more.

 

[Ryolain]

I really like Noivern's design, it's got an interesting movepool and Infiltrator is a great ability to have in the current meta, but I agree that even with LO it didn't hit as hard as I wanted when I was using him. Specs worked a little better, but they allowed him to become complete setup bait - with such low SpA, even something that took neutral damage from a locked-in attack would have no problem surviving a hit and KOing me back. The Switcheroo/Taunt anti-lead set was the most productive in my experience with him, but that gave him even less to do for the rest of the battle - once I prevented their SR user from setting up, he was just dead weight, as opposed to someone like Gliscor who can Taunt leads, ToxiStall, absorb physical hits, sponge status and dish out respectable EQs all in one moveset.

 

[TheUltimateStorm]

Hmm. 97 Isnt bad, but it's not the greatest either. Talonflame has a base 81 Attack, it's just got the ability to spam priority Brave Birds. Noivern's got more Sp. Atk then Gliscor has Physical Atk, but Gliscor has more Physical Bulk. Lets see: Noivern's Defensives are 85 Base Hp, 80 Base Defense and 80 Base Sp. Def. Gliscor has 75 Base Hp, 125 Defense and 75 Defense, so Noivern is technically superior in two Defensive categories, it's just that Noivern dosent excel in any Defensive category, and lacks a reliable recovery option outside of Roost. If Noivern got something else to differentiate itself from other Pokemon besides the Speed it'd have more Potential. Keep in mind we don't know if XY will change it up when it comes to Move Tutors or if it gets something outstanding from them. If it got Nasty Plot it'd be far more usable in my opinion. Interesting that it didn't get Nasty Plot seeing as Zubat got it.

 

[Ryolain]

I don't think it's a question of getting better moves - he's already got some of the most powerful offensive moves out there (Draco Meteor, Boomburst, Focus Blast) plus a handful of utility moves (Taunt, Switcheroo, Roost) and two very useful abilities. It's really just about stat distribution, and sadly the speed isn't enough to make up for his lack of power and fragility. Like people have said, he's very much a special Crobat - really good at the one thing he does, but ultimately too niche to see wide usage.

In the Gliscor comparison, don't forget that 3 mediocre stats is much less useful than 2 mediocre stats and one great stat. Ground is also a much better STAB than Dragon or Flying and EQ is a more reliable move than Draco Meteor, Dragon Pulse, Hurricane or Air Slash, so even with essentially the same offensive power, Gliscor can dish out more useful damage against neutral opponents, all while passively healing with Poison Heal, absorbing status and potentially racking up residual damage with Toxic.

 

[TheUltimateStorm]

I don't think it's a question of getting better moves - he's already got some of the most powerful offensive moves out there (Draco Meteor, Boomburst, Focus Blast) plus a handful of utility moves (Taunt, Switcheroo, Roost) and two very useful abilities. It's really just about stat distribution, and sadly the speed isn't enough to make up for his lack of power and fragility. Like people have said, he's very much a special Crobat - really good at the one thing he does, but ultimately too niche to see wide usage.

In the Gliscor comparison, don't forget that 3 mediocre stats is much less useful than 2 mediocre stats and one great stat. Ground is also a much better STAB than Dragon or Flying and EQ is a more reliable move than Draco Meteor, Dragon Pulse, Hurricane or Air Slash, so even with essentially the same offensive power, Gliscor can dish out more useful damage against neutral opponents, all while passively healing with Poison Heal, absorbing status and potentially racking up residual damage with Toxic.

That's what I'm getting at. Noivern is a jack of all trades, master of none, he's fairly well rounded across the board, but he excels at nothing save for that great Speed Stat, which makes it hard for him to differentiate himself with stuff that have excellent Defenses like Gliscor or Skarm, but can be dealt with Special Fire and Ice moves. Basically, outside of Speed, Noivern dosent really have a Niche to use it over something like Garchomp or Salamence.

Also, Cheeze Ballz, I'm gonna disagree on the EV Training segment. Just because something is more accessable dosent make it bad. I did not want to go out of my way to IV Breed and EV Train in Gen V, leaving me to playing on PS!, but now that X and Y make it simple and easy to get Competitive Ready Pokemon, I actually find myself breeding Pokemon like none else.

 

[Cheeze Ballz]

I've been wondering where Noivern would end up, and I'm concluding with that it will be BL or maybe low OU. It basically has good speed and movepool, but that's about it. It's special attack is the same as galvantula's iirc, and nobody is heralding how good he is as an attacker. And his typing is amazing. And when you think about Noivern's movepool isn't that great thanks to fairy types. It gets draco meteor, dragon pulse, hurricane, focus blast, and flamethrower as viable special attacks (boomburst meh.) In order to get past lots of common pokemon it needs to hit focus blast and hurricane, which is hard to do consistently. Although don't underestimate the speed and annoyance of U-turn, this guy is a huge pain in the ass zipping around firing off surprisingly strong special attacks... when they hit.

I agree with you. Noivern would at least hang between BL and BL2 in my point of view. Draco Meteor is okay if you use a white herb. Dragon Pulse comes second choice in dragon moves. Hurricane.... I don't know, cause that accuracy drives me up the wall. I'd rather Air Slash, though it still has an annoying accuracy, but it's still a great flying move. And what do you have against Boom Burst. I get that when you deeply think about it. It's not the best move in the pool, but it's safe, hit's everything, Third strongest move behind Draco and then Hurricane but... Ok now that you mention it, it sounds pretty standard.

 

[November Blue]

I'd been getting really consistent results from my Scarf Hydreigon. I wanted to try Noivern instead, and he's been doing really well so far. I'm using a Specs set with U-turn, Air Slash, Draco Meteor, and Flamethrower. Not much to say, really. I want to try Boomburst, but what does it have over Noivern's other moves that can hit super effectively?

 

[BlazingBarrager]

The only true thing Boomburst has over Noivern's other moves is the ability to bypass Subs. Well that and it doesn't suffer Draco Meteor's recoil, but that isn't much of an issue since Noivern doesn't really have the bulk to stay in for long.

 

[TheUltimateStorm]

The only true thing Boomburst has over Noivern's other moves is the ability to bypass Subs. Well that and it doesn't suffer Draco Meteor's recoil, but that isn't much of an issue since Noivern doesn't really have the bulk to stay in for long.

Which isn't of much merit, unless your using Frisk, due to Infiltrator giving Noivern the ability to bypass subs on all of his moves, either that or you could use (lol) Telapathy which has no merit in Singles, so really, I only suggest using Boomburst if your not running Frisk, which does has some merit, but for a Specs set I'd think Inflitrator would be better.

 

[AOPSUser]

Which isn't of much merit, unless your using Frisk, due to Infiltrator giving Noivern the ability to bypass subs on all of his moves, either that or you could use (lol) Telapathy which has no merit in Singles, so really, I only suggest using Boomburst if your not running Frisk, which does has some merit, but for a Specs set I'd think Inflitrator would be better.

Boomburst is more powerful than STAB Dragon Pulse or STAB Air Slash. Draco Meteor has that nasty side effect and Hurricane is way too unreliable. That alone should be reason enough to use Boomburst.

Although with Noivern's Special Attack stat it won't be doing that much damage.

 

[Drybones]

I actually really like this set, but hasty nature kind of defeats the purpose of investing in HP. U-turn is going to do pitiful damage anyways, I would go timid and put the last 4 EVs in something not attack.

Edit: And I assume you meant "Spe" not "Spd".

Yeah I agree, I would go with Timid as well - that was an oversight. Also, yes. I meant 252 speed.

Here's the fixed set:

Noivern @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 Spe / 252 HP / 4 Sp.Atk
Timid Nature
- Taunt
- U-turn
- Super Fang
- Draco Meteor

It competes with fellow super fang / taunt user crobat. Crobat could easily be used in this slot but I feel Noivern lures out fairy tanks better.

 

[Terminate421]

That's what I'm getting at. Noivern is a jack of all trades, master of none, he's fairly well rounded across the board, but he excels at nothing save for that great Speed Stat, which makes it hard for him to differentiate himself with stuff that have excellent Defenses like Gliscor or Skarm, but can be dealt with Special Fire and Ice moves. Basically, outside of Speed, Noivern dosent really have a Niche to use it over something like Garchomp or Salamence.

Also, Cheeze Ballz, I'm gonna disagree on the EV Training segment. Just because something is more accessable dosent make it bad. I did not want to go out of my way to IV Breed and EV Train in Gen V, leaving me to playing on PS!, but now that X and Y make it simple and easy to get Competitive Ready Pokemon, I actually find myself breeding Pokemon like none else.

I'd like to point out that thanks to the Zygarde thread, I have learned to look at Pokemon besides their stats. Look at what Gamefreak has given him besides just attacking moves:

Switcheroo
Taunt
U-Turn

Easily, this is something to realize that Noivern can be an item sapper or Taunt user. Noivern can be effective, but it's how the player uses him.

I'm using him now not as a primary special sweeper and he does just fine.

 

[Jojobobo]

I'm currently going to try out this:

Noivern @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- U-turn
- Switcheroo

I'm going for Infiltrator as I like being able to hit things through substitute without resorting to Boomburst (plus you hit subbed ghost types), also as far as I can tell I'll be able to Switcheroo through a substitute which is a nice niche other Trick/Switcheroo users don't have (plus Switcheroo isn't walled by dark types like Trick). Hasty is to outspeed Greninja, as Noivern can easily OHKO as long as it out-speeds.