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Noivern

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by TRC, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. TRC

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    Overview
    ########
    When looking at Noivern, the first thing one notices is its incredible Speed stat, which separates it from other, slower Dragon-types. In addition, it has access to two powerful STAB moves in Draco Meteor and Hurricane, as well as access to Switcheroo and U-turn, which gives it a small niche over other Dragon-types. Unfortunately, Noivern's Speed is its only great stat; all of its other stats are mediocre. Its highest offensive stat, Special Attack, is only an average base 97. Noivern also has a poor defensive typing, being weak to Stealth Rock and common Ice-type attacks. This combined with Noivern's poor bulk means it is prone to being worn down very quickly, and its coverage moves in general have shaky accuracy. This seemingly gives little reason to use it over other Dragon-types, such as Latios, which boasts much higher Special Attack, and better all-around bulk. However, Noivern is still a viable choice as it has several advantages which give it a niche, the main one being its insane Speed. This allows Noivern to be a potent revenge killer without needing a Choice Scarf, giving Noivern the opportunity to run a power-boosting item instead. While Noivern has flaws, it can still do its job incredibly well, and should always be considered for a team in need of its virtues.

    Choice Specs
    ########
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Focus Blast
    move 3: Flamethrower
    move 4: Switcheroo / U-turn / Hurricane
    ability: Infiltrator / Frisk
    item: Choice Specs
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid

    Moves
    ========
    Draco Meteor is Noivern's main STAB move and does a large amount of damage with a Choice Specs boost. Focus Blast and Flamethrower are Noivern's ways of dealing with the Steel-types that resist its Dragon STAB. Focus Blast is Noivern's best option against Heatran, Terrakion, and Aggron, while Flamethrower is more reliable and deals with Scizor, Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Lucario, and Mega Mawile better. Switcheroo allows Noivern to cripple the defensive checks to Noivern such as Chansey, Blissey, and the increasingly common Assault Vest users, while a fast U-turn provides momentum for the team. Hurricane, while inaccurate, can also be used in the last slot as a powerful secondary STAB move, but should really only be used on a rain team due to its unreliability.

    Set Details
    ========
    Choice Specs is the ideal item on Noivern, as it makes up for Noivern's mediocre Special Attack stat, while the Timid nature takes advantage of Noivern's most defining quality: its Speed. The EVs maximize Special Attack and Speed, which benefit Noivern's hit-and-run nature. Infiltrator is Noivern's preferred ability, as it allows Noivern to hit through Substitutes, hence giving Noivern valuable utility, but Frisk can be used to scout the opponent's item. Air Slash can be used over Hurricane as a more reliable Flying-type STAB move, but its a low Base Power limits its effectiveness. Noivern can also use the powerful Boomburst, but it often has trouble fitting it into a set, as it does not provide super effective coverage against anything, and the ability to hit through Substitutes isn't as valuable when using Infiltrator as an ability.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    This set shows Noivern primarily being used as a revenge killer. Bring Noivern in to revenge a Pokemon, and use the appropriate coverage move. Try not to use Draco Meteor immediately, as the Special Attack drop can be debilitating early in the game when you don't fully know the opponent's team. Instead, either use an appropriate coverage move for who you expect will switch in, or U-turn to scout what the opponent's check to Noivern is. In general, using U-turn throughout the game is helpful to scout your opponent's sets, which works great when using Frisk. Late-game, Noivern can also clean up with strong, Choice Specs-boosted moves. Finally, Noivern is viable on a rain team, as it boosts the accuracy of Hurricane, giving Noivern freedom to run it over Flamethrower.

    Team Options
    ========
    Scizor is an excellent teammate, as it forms a U-turn core and can eliminate some of Noivern's main counters such as Assault Vest Tyranitar and Chansey. It is also able to Pursuit trap things that Noivern has weakened, and provides good defensive synergy; it can take the Dragon- and Ice-type attacks aimed at Noivern. Excadrill can Rapid Spin away Stealth Rock, which is detrimental to Noivern, especially as Noivern will be switching a lot; Excadrill also provides good offensive synergy due to its STAB Earthquake and Iron Head being able to take out Steel- and Fairy-types, respectively. Magnezone forms a VoltTurn core with Noivern, and can trap and eliminate Steel-types with Magnet Pull. Noivern also appreciates the support of teammates such as Heatran, Mega Aggron, Bisharp, and Venusaur that can counter the Fairy-types that like to switch in on Noivern.

    Life Orb
    ########
    name: Life Orb
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Focus Blast
    move 3: Flamethrower
    move 4: U-turn / Roost / Dragon Pulse
    ability: Frisk / Infiltrator
    item: Life Orb
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid / Naive

    Moves
    ========
    Draco Meteor is a STAB move and is Noivern's most powerful neutral option, while Focus Blast and Flamethrower provide coverage against the variety of Steel-type Pokemon that resist Draco Meteor. Roost allows Noivern to heal itself and provides a way of mitigating Life Orb and Stealth Rock damage. U-turn obtains momentum for the team, while also dealing decent damage to Psychic- and Dark-types if using a Naive nature. Dragon Pulse is a consistent, reliable way of cleaning late-game, but it is not really necessary most of the time, as Noivern is primarily a revenge killer.

    Set Details
    ========
    By using Life Orb, Noivern sacrifices power for the ability to change moves, which allows it to use its coverage much more effectively. Its EVs are standard for a special sweeper: maximum Special Attack and Speed. A Naive nature can be helpful in order to make U-turn do more damage, as Noivern will die a lot quicker with Life Orb, making the Special Defense drop insignificant, but Timid is still an option, as U-turn is mainly used for momentum, not coverage. Timid is always the best option if you choose to not run U-turn. As Noivern will be switching and U-turning a lot, Frisk is the more useful ability in the long run, as it lets Noivern learn about the opponent's sets, most importantly their Choice Scarf user and their Mega Evolution. However, Infiltrator is still useful, as being able to hit through Substitutes is always handy.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    This Noivern set is also a very useful revenge killer, but with the freedom of switching moves, Noivern can U-turn more after every hit, which provides useful momentum for the team. Once things have been weakened and Noivern's counters have been eliminated, Noivern can clean late-game with its coverage moves, as well as Dragon Pulse. It is particularly good to use Draco Meteor often to dent things, and then U-turn or switch out afterwards. Also, if you choose to run Roost, take advantages of the switches Noivern forces and Roost to heal whenever it is necessary.

    Team Options
    ========
    Once again, Scizor makes an excellent teammate due to its offensive synergy with Noivern and also due to them creating a U-turn core. Spinners are also mandatory partners, with Excadrill being the best at that role due to its excellent defensive synergy and ability to beat spinblockers such as Trevenant and Gourgiest-S with Shadow Claw. Bulky Steel-types in particular are good because they resist the Dragon-, Fairy-, and Ice-type attacks aimed at Noivern, while also being able to wall Tyranitar reasonably well; Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and Forretress are examples of such. Conkeldurr can hit Tyranitar, Chansey, and Blissey hard with Drain Punch; most bulky Fighting-types make for good teammates for the same reason.

    Other Options
    ########
    Noivern has access to Taunt to prevent Chansey and Blissey from using Toxic or Thunder Wave, but Switcheroo is usually a superior option. Additionally, Noivern has Super Fang, which can help with very bulky walls, but Noivern shouldn't be staying in on them anyway. Tailwind is an option for if Noivern is close to dying to allow a sweep for slower Pokemon such as Dragonite and Haxorus, but like Super Fang, takes up a valuable moveslot. Finally, Noivern has access to Dark Pulse, Psychic, and Shadow Ball as coverage options against some Pokemon, but Draco Meteor does more damage than these moves in most cases.

    Checks & Counters
    ########
    **Chansey and Blissey**: Chansey and Blissey, being the insane special walls that they are, can tank any hit from Noivern, even a super effective Focus Blast. They can then proceed to either cripple Noivern with status or simply recover by using one of Softboiled or Wish + Protect. However, if Choice Specs Noivern is running Switcheroo, it can cripple Chansey and Blissey by giving them an unwanted Choice Specs, so this must be kept in mind.

    **Bulky Fairy-types**: Bulky Fairy-types, such as Sylveon and Mega Gardevoir, are excellent checks because they are immune to Noivern's main STAB, resist Focus Blast, and take very little damage from Noivern's other moves, while being able to OHKO back with Moonblast or Hyper Voice, although Switcheroo can cripple Sylveon. Azumarill can also take most of the moves that Noivern can offer and KO with Play Rough.

    **Offensive Threats**: Any Pokemon that can either outspeed Noivern or tank a hit from it and KO back can effectively revenge kill it. This includes Choice Band Talonflame, which can OHKO Noivern with Brave Bird after Stealth Rock, and Weavile, who can use any of its Ice-type STAB moves to severely dent Noivern.

    **Ice Shard**: Due to Noivern's 4x weakness to Ice, users of Ice Shard make excellent revenge killers. This includes Mamoswine, Weavile, and Cloyster.

    **Stealth Rock**: Noivern's typing gives it a nasty weakness to Stealth Rock, which can be easily taken advantage of at the beginning of the game. This seriously damages Noivern's durability as it likes to switch out very often.
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2014
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  2. Alter

    Alter lab report
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    Nice job. Something I forgot to mention in the vm is that you probably need to mention specifically the competition it faces from Latios in the overview. It might also be worth mentioning that the 4 EVs in SpD make it so that Genesect is given a Special Attack boost (you can move this to Def if you want its U-turn to be weaker which might be the better option).

    PKGaming's original comments in the preview are also sound here:
    ~edit: ah, my eyes deceive me! I didn't notice you put in the accuracy thing. gl :)
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2013
  3. TRC

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    All added, thank you. Latios and other Specially oriented dragons in general have strong competition with Noivern and I put the 4 EV's in defense as noivern will usually switch out of genesect in fear of ice beam, and if the genesect user predicts that, the switch in takes +1 u turn damage which isn't good.

    I've mentioned the other things, the shaky accuracy is in the overview though.
  4. Dyakodamus

    Dyakodamus

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    I personally think Noivern makes for a great Lead with a set of:


    move 1: Taunt
    move 2: Flamethrower
    move 3: U-Turn
    move 4: Draco Meteor

    ability: Frisk
    item: Life Orb
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Nature: Naive

    It counters almost any common Lead with the exception of Aerodactyl and it's Great speed stat allows it to Revenge most offensive sweepers. Taunt completely shuts Hazardsetters like Smeargle, Ferrothorn and Skarmory down while OHKOing or 2HKOing with Flamethrower. It Ohkos Mons like Greninja and Talonflame(even lives through a Brave Bird of unbanded TFlame) wrecks Brelooms shit and whatnot also usefull for Dragons as it outspeeds some DDancers at +1. Very Usefull Set and very focussed on giving you the Edge on Turn 1 especially against unsuspecting foes. It almost guarantees you to go into turn 2 with Momentum as long as you are good at predicting opponents. It's also notable that most people don't expect taunt on Noivern. Good for aggressive momentum heavy Teams.

    Noivern is a Mon that generally specifically counters certain Pokemon on the opposing team but kinda looses it's usefullness after those threats are dealt with due to it's relatively middling SpA Stat so a Momentum heavy Set that is less focussed on going around killing dudes seems like the better option in my opinion.
  5. TRC

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    I'm not sure about making a dedicated lead set as it seems like it can just Taunt + U-turn, it can't set up hazards and is generally outclassed by other Taunt leads such as Terrakion who can also use Stealth Rock. I understand that Noivern's coverage can eliminate common leads but I don't think that Noivern is good enough in that role to have an entire set for it. It already provides great momentum and coverage and the main difference between this and the Life Orb set is Taunt anyway, which brings me to my next point.

    I want QC opinion on this. Do you think that Noivern deserves a Stallbreaker set in the analysis as it has access to moves that could be beneficial in this role such as Taunt, Toxic, Roost and Super Fang, in addition to its coverage mentioned in other sets. It performs similarly to Crobat in that respective but boasts better coverage overall. Do you think that this set is viable and worthy of an analysis?
  6. Dyakodamus

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    I agree that it is outclassed in a utility kind of way but it's not outclassed in a consistency kind of way. Few Pokemon can go toe to toe with that ridiculous speed and the Pokemon that do normally wouldn't lead. It may be that since my team is very aggressive and has a Volt/Turn Core i may overrate this set since it just fits my team so well i usually don't even put out stealth rocks if i don't have to (against TFlame, Dnite or Volcarona for example) but from my experience it's a really solid set that helps you retain or get Momentum where other Pokemon just fail to do so. Frisk also tells you if the opposing lead may be sashed or scarfed so predicting get's way easier.

    A Stallbreaker set is something that's interesting and Noivern is decent at doing but it's kind of wasted on him, as a whole i feel like it's more of a gimmick he's capable of than a serious set. His speed is unecessary and his bulk is so bad that even defensive Poke's can put quite a dent in him you'd have to get kind of creative with the EV spread to make this worthwhile.
  7. TRC

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    Yeah, so I'm opposed to doing a Lead set, the only set I really would consider adding is a Stallbreaker and I need QC opinion on that. If you aren't sure of its effectiveness then check Crobat's analysis.
  8. Dyakodamus

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    I honestly don't see what Noivern brings to the table that crobat doesn't bring or vice versa i guess Noivern could be just as good at Stallbreaking as crobat could do to their similar stats and superior defensive typing but it also has the problem of having to rely on non-STabs or Hurricane for Damage . Other than that i can't see much of a difference between these two pokemon when it comes to this set .Maybe an analysis is warranted due to the really similar powerlevel of the two. I would say yes.
  9. Alter

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    Dyakodamus: The main difference between the two (or at least what Noivern has over Crobat) is that is has Frisk as its ability. This lets it judge the opponents sets and is particularly useful for identifying Choice Scarves and Mega Stones. Apart from that, Noivern also has some key resistances to Fire, Water and Grass which separate it from Crobat in this role.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2013
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  10. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    This looks good, I just want to address a few things
    This isn't really helpful to the reader, it's just common sense. Perhaps you should mention that Noivern should not use Draco Meteor right off the bat, and scout for it's check with U-turn, or use Hurricane / Focus Blast depending on what your opponent has.

    There's also a distinct lack of Fairy-types mentioned in the teammates section; They completely wall Noivern, so anti-fairy Pokemon should mentioned. (Heatran, Mega Aggron, and Venusaur/Amoogus for Azumarill)
  11. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    I really don't like how U-turn is a must on all sets, especially on a Pokemon with so many useful moves that is also weak to SR. This is how i would make the sets:

    Choice Specs
    ########
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Focus Blast
    move 3: Flamethrower
    move 4: Hurricane / U-turn / Switcheroo
    ability: Frisk / Infiltrator
    item: Choice Specs
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    nature: Timid

    Life Orb
    ########
    name: Life Orb Cleaner
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Focus Blast
    move 3: Flamethrower
    move 4: Roost / U-turn
    ability: Frisk / Infiltrator
    item: Life Orb
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid / Naive

    A fire move is a must for Pokemon such as Scizor, Klefki, Mega Mawile, Aegislash, and Lucario. In the case of Mega Mawile, Aegislash, and Klefki, it's the only move that 2HKOes them, in the case of Scizor (and Ferro and Skarmory) it's nice not needing to rely on a 49% chance to connect two Hurricane or Focus Blast, and in the case of Mega Lucario it's nice not needing to rely on a 70% chance against such a dangerous Pokemon. On the last slot you can use any of the three moves i listed without missing on anything major. The slash order between those three is up to you, and because i hate relying on a 70% chance i prefer U-turn, but that's just me.

    As for the second set, the same rules for the fire move that apply to the first set apply here too. Roost is nice to offset LO recoil and SR damage, and Noivern has decent bulk so it can find some chances to use it without fainting if the opponent attacks instead of switching out. A fast U-turn is still a good option so it's slashed after Roost.
  12. TRC

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  13. Hibiki

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    In the specs set, I'd personally slash Switcheroo over Hurricane, mostly because of how shaky Hurricane is but also because of how crippling choice-locking a wall is for the opponent.
  14. Doughboy

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    You can't really call it a "Cleaner" if its main and only STAB on the set forces Noviern to switch out. Honestly, I would use Dragon Pulse over both U-turn and Roost so you can fire a STAB move off consistently late game; that is really what really would allow you to clean up. Draco Meteor would be there to muscle past certain threats / check threats with its high speed.
  15. TRC

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    Do you think I should slash it over them or just AC mention it?
  16. ginganinja

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    I personally, would like to emphasis Switcheroo specifically because its part of Noiverns (small) niche, as well as how useful it is not only in shutting down the pink blobs, but it also pisses off the general walls with Assault Vest that everyone seems to be running. Quite frankly, id rather it be 1st for 2nd slash on the Specs set (tho I guess Hurricane also is a part of its niche) since Switcheroo is what differentiates it from your generic dragon.
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  17. TRC

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    Done. I've also included Dragon Pulse in the LO set and elaborated a bit on it.
  18. ginganinja

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    Move Dragon Pulse to 3rd slash (rather than first) on the LO set, or even drop it to AC. Its a nice move, but the LO set is (in my personal opinion), an (average) wallbreaker first, and then a cleaner second. Dragon Pulse is nice late game, when you want to take down the next 2-3 weakened mons or whatever (making Draco Meteor the weaker opinion this this example), and I guess ok around mid game if you want to avoid being set up fodder for a steel, but it has situational use outside of this, and U-Turn and Roost offer slightly more reliable advantages.
  19. TRC

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    Done. I moved it to the 3rd slash as it does have some use (basically what you said in your post) but other options are generally preferred. I've also made the LO said imply wall breaker more than cleaner. Dragon pulse would work best on the 1st set but it needs the other moves too much so I won't put it there.
  20. Halcyon.

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    This thing just faces so much competition from Latios that it really needs to emphasize its strong points in order to differentiate itself. I like Switcheroo, but I hate Hurricane on the Specs set. You're already using Focus Blast, and the common switch-ins to Noivern don't really care about Hurricane anyway (AV TTar, etc.), so I don't see what exactly you're hitting with an unreliable hurricane that you can't hit with another coverage move just as hard. Instead, I would rather have U-turn be the secondary slash. It's part of what makes Noivern somewhat of a better choice than Latios for some teams. It can provide momentum when Latios can't (especially against teams with Ttar). Another thing is Infiltrator. I think it should be the first slash, especially since Boomburst isn't on any of the sets. Being able to hit through subs is really cool, and I think it's more useful than finding out what item your opponent is holding (I only see this being useful with stuff like Azumarill, and you should be able to tell if it's Banded or not by the damage output).
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  21. TRC

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    I'll slash U-turn second then. When I write up the analysis I will mention Hurricane to be an appropriate move if using Noivern on a rain team. However, on the LO set which switches / U-turns often, Frisk is definitely preferred to scout Scarfers and Megas, giving you a better understanding of the opponents team.
  22. Plus

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    To answer your questions in OO:

    I think Taunt is worthy enough to be mentioned there, but it doesn't deserve its own set. Noivern's usually one of those things where you just want to kill it straight up by tanking a hit then attacking back. However it does have its uses against things like Chansey and Blissey who could easily try to Toxic/Twave you. None of the things I see in "stall" apart from that and probably Sdef Tran would particularly hate being Taunted by a Noivern.

    Also, no to the Scarf set. Noivern's selling point is its unboosted Speed, you'd much rather be using Latios for the Scarf role if you absolutely must have a special attacking Dragon-type scarfer. Even with that you're set-up bait to a ton of stuff in OU.

    But other than that, looks good!

    QC 1/3
  23. TRC

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    Done. Thanks a lot!
  24. PK Gaming

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    QC APPROVED (2/3)
  25. TRC

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    Thanks! I'll get this written up asap.

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