np: BW OU Suspect Testing Round 7 - Ice Ice Baby

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Iconic, Oct 17, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. BKC

    BKC sorrow flew on black wings
    is a Tutoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 16 Championis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion
    Mentor

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,129
    Just got reqs:

    [​IMG]

    Anyways I think this metagame is horrible. I have a million reasons why, but Kyurem-B is not one of them and I don't want to rant about everything this metagame has that I hate because I'd like to avoid an infraction. I'll vote Kyu-B OU.
  2. Improbable

    Improbable

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2011
    Messages:
    146
    Just made reqs

    [​IMG]

    Did not face Kyurem B a whole lot but the few times I did, I did not find it threatening. I was using different archetypes of teams from rain to HO to sand, mostly HO. Kyurem-B is a pretty solid choice against rain though, because of its resistances to Water/Grass/Electric and great special bulk. This makes it a good pick in OU but imo not broken enough to ban (considering the other stuff in this tier).
  3. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast improsin + bapongbas gg,,,,,,
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a SPL Winner
    Other Metas Leader

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2008
    Messages:
    4,692
    One set I've tried to some success (although my team is horrible):

    Kyurem-B @ Life Orb
    120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe
    Mild / Rash nature (can't decide which one to use...)
    - Ice Beam
    - Earth Power
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Roost

    Basically, a bulky mixed attacker. Kyurem's Attack is actually six points higher than its Special Attack with this set iirc, and Fusion Bolt is mostly for bulky Waters (need to see if a certain number of Attack EVs are needed for specific KOs). Base 120 Special Attack still hits pretty damn hard.
  4. capefeather

    capefeather Yessie!
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2009
    Messages:
    2,772
    Aww man, Aquasition's posts are reminding me of that other post in the past that everyone used to make fun of. And it's funny because now we see more clearly than ever that we were kind of making fun of the wrong thing. If Black Kyurem even had a usable second STAB, it would probably be kicking it up in Ubers with its version counterpart...

    I find that comparisons like these are helpful in determining just how powerful something is. I'm kind of baffled that some people are STILL gawking at the Base Attack when it's technically nothing new in OU or UU or even RU. We should be focused on aspects that actually distinguish Black Kyurem from stuff like Darmanitan and Medicham, namely (effective) bulk and coverage.
  5. BurningMan

    BurningMan fueled by beer
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,274
    [​IMG]

    Finally i got the reqs, as a lot of people already said Kyurem-B was far from being as overused as you would expect in a suspect test and the few times i have used it i mainly used it as a mixed attacker. it performed pretty well, but isn't broken for reasons that have been stated already a million times in this thread. The CB set practically guarantees you a kill in each match, but dies afterwards wich is far from being spectactular, the mixed sets are way more interesting but i haven't seen many of them sadly.

    What really suprised me in this suspect test was that i have seen some pretty cool sun stall teams that made use of Cresselia wich was kinda refreshing after playing against the same 3-4 teams that everyone is using atm again and again.
  6. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    2,967
    Mind if I ask what these really cool stall teams looked like? And how effective do you think they were?
  7. Lady Alex

    Lady Alex This game sucks. Ban everything and it might not.

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    Messages:
    555
    I would be curious to see effective stall teams as well.
  8. AfroThunderRule

    AfroThunderRule I suck.
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2009
    Messages:
    629
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]


    Got this requirement very early into the test when Kyurem-B was actually being used around the tier. I was using some cookie cutter Drizzle team on this alt: Politoed/Ferrothorn/Genesect/Thundurus-T/Keldeo/Starmie and I have to say that I did not find Kyurem-B broken then. It was pretty hard for him to switch in to my team, meaning one of the few ways it go in safely is after one of his teammates is down. And after seeing tons of battles this seems true for most teams using Kyurem-B

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]


    On this alt I actually used him in a Hail team with a Sub mixed set (team of Aboma/Kyu-B/Genesect/Deo-D/Landorus/Starmie) and while Kyurem-B was decent for me, I have to say, he was the weakest link on the team. All the problems I mentioned earlier about Kyurem-B is also applied here, once again I found Kyurem-B not broken. It was too slow, it didn't have enough bulk to compensate for his weaknesses, its power is not all that impressive outside of Outrage. Kyurem-B was just decent mon...

    If you guys don't mind a random nub's thoughts on this "horrible metagame" maybe I'm just an optimist but I think there's some good potential here. I don't think Kyurem-B screwed anything. I think there's plenty of viable options out there that hasn't been discovered because we're not given the time to test them. During this suspect testing people just want to try proven things because they're proven and will get them to regs quickly, there wasn't too much time between this suspect test and the last one we had so people didn't have enough time to try out anything "new"

    I don't think the increase of Genesect, Tornadus-T, Deoxys-D, etc had anything to do with Kuyrem-B but people only see him as the only thing that changed so people automatically blame poor Kyurem-B. I mean how can Kyurem-B be to blamed for this "horrible metagame" (which I found kinda fun) if he isn't even used in his own suspect test? :(


    Unless something drastic changes I will vote to unban him.
  9. BurningMan

    BurningMan fueled by beer
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,274
    if i remember correctly it was Ninetales, Duggy, Forretress, Cresselia, Latias and SubSeed Venusaur wich worked pretty well against me as Cresselia with a 66% recovery move is really hard to take down and walls lot of Pokemon. It seems pretty anti-metagame, but i think it requires quite some skill to pull this off (other than 90% of the teams running around wich look like they could be played by robots) since you absolutly need to win the weather war. I see this Team struggeling against other stall teams due to the lack of a spinblocker, but since nobody uses stall anymore thats not that much of a problem.
  10. Jayde

    Jayde
    is a Tiering Contributoris a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    478
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]


    Went into a huge slump last night and started swearing at everybody, in hindsight it made the ladder slightly more enjoyable

    Yeah, like most people, I don't like this metagame much either. Kyurem-B doesn't make it better at all, and definitely doesn't contribute to having an ideal ou metagame; however, it isn't broken. Tho it usually manages to kill something, it's easily revenged by like everything and is usually a worse choice overall than mence or anything else. Hail doesn't really help it too much either.

    so base: unban from me, but after other suspects (possibily gene, drizz, etc) have gone, retest def would not hurt
  11. ToF

    ToF
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 13 Champion

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2007
    Messages:
    2,055
    common dude, you know how much i value people that care about the suspect process and your commitment but you know that statement by mysteryman is bs.

    starting top-down gets you nowhere because eventually things that are brought down are banned anyway. there hasn't been a single uber that we've brought down that has been allowed in ou permanently so the "top-down" approach doesn't work imo. precedent says that garchomp will eventually be banned too, just saying. skymin, latios / latias, deoxys-s, manaphy, list goes on and on. seems like it ends up going in circles and creates more work and less efficiency, but i digress.

    anyway, the above isnt even what bothers or concerns me. my issue is "why kyurem-b" was chosen over other things that are way more controversial. excadrill anyone? thundurus anyone? you're free to use the top-down approach, but why not start with the pkmn that were on the cusp of ou before being booted in bw? remember how we chose an initial tier list in bw? why wasn't something similar implemented here. don't drop one of them at a time, drop all them mofos at once and slowly work your way up to a stable metagame. this test seems out of place. irrespective of my metagame complaint (which is clearly me being a whiny bitch cause i just wanna play for fun now and not competitively, shouldn't be taken seriously), i think that's the best way to go about tackling this. drop everything, go ham, boot things simultaneously and refine (this you should take seriously).
  12. bubbly

    bubbly

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    883
    I don't completely agree with you ToF, but I really would like to see that the Council has some kind of plan or structure to their suspect testing. At the moment it feels completely random, and community concerns about the real OU suspects aren't being addressed. I'll have to wait to see what happens after Kyu-B is unbanned, I guess.
  13. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming The truth is in my hands
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,142
    Breloom is a god in this metagame

    its effective against all of the good threats

    look for an opening and just tear your opponents team apart

    To me it seems very much like a anti-metagame Pokemon. Also guaranteed stripping of 50%+ Genesect's HP is soo good.

    All of you guys should use Breloom if you aren't using it
  14. W_M

    W_M

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2011
    Messages:
    74
    Reqs:

    [​IMG]

    My English is not fine but i will try. I began horribly "the suspects" with hail teams and later with rain teams. I tried use no standar teams (Politoed, Tornadus-T, Tentacruel, Ferrothorn, Dugtrio and Genesect is a very famous team like I checked and others versions). I checked Kyurem-B and in my opinion, it is not broken in OU (the best version is bander but it is slow and easily countered); in fact, I sometimes felt like the only user of Kyurem-B.

    Finally, I broke my negative record with a sunny team. My team: Ninetiles, Tornadus, Salamence, Victini, Starmie/Tentacruel and Bronzong. It runs very well because it adapts to all circunstancies and it break the enemies' tactics with tailwind+tornadus+moxie-salamence or trickroom-victini.

    Kyurem-B is not enjoying its suspect.

    Excuse my English, please.
  15. Leader Fox

    Leader Fox

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2012
    Messages:
    32
    Well got req last night

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
  16. superbadd

    superbadd

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2012
    Messages:
    351
    ? It's good, but not that good. It can't beat the therians or deoxys-d. I would argue scizor is a better check to k-b because it can actually take a hit from it if it needs to.
  17. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    5,995
    Which Breloom set you found the most effective PK? SD with Spore and LO, Spore + 3 attacks + LO, or bulky SD + Spore + Fighting Gem?
  18. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming The truth is in my hands
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,142
    The Low Sweep set. Opens up teams like mad, and you don't even have to predict either. SD sets are pretty good too, they're especially clutch lategame.

    shit where are all the breloom supporters. I can't be the only guy paping everyone with breloom.
  19. AfroThunderRule

    AfroThunderRule I suck.
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2009
    Messages:
    629
    Any optimal EV spreads for Low Sweep Breloom? Like enough speed to outrun Tornadus-T after a speed drop?
  20. TGMD

    TGMD n_n
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    896
    To outspeed Tornadus-T you'd have to run Jolly. When running Adamant: an EV spread of 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe allows you to outspeed positive base 110s (Lati@s & Espeon) after a Low Sweep, you also get to invest a few extra EVs in HP to take hits.
  21. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    5,995
    Lol funny coincidence... When i was using Breloom, the set i liked the most was the Spore + 3 attacks one, with Spore, Low Sweep, Bullet Seed, Mach Punch and Life Orb with Adamant.
  22. JabbaTheGriffin

    JabbaTheGriffin Stormblessed
    is a Super Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tutor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Battle Spot Leader

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2007
    Messages:
    2,982
    Well we were going to test ubers down before testing out current suspects, since it seemed like that was the soundest way to do things. However, considering how bad this metagame actually is (or rather, how bad it seems a majority of players seem to think it is), we've decided after Kyurem-B that we're going to switch directions and test current threats.

    How can you advocate a test all at once method after having taken part in DPP stage 3 and BW suspect testing? It'd probably take a solid 6 months of testing and tweaking just to stabilize. It's something we should only do at the start of a new gen. Otherwise testing down one at a time is cleaner and more efficient.
  23. The Immortal

    The Immortal <skylight> i havent had sex this year
    is a Battle Server Administratoris a Programmeris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    754
    [​IMG]

    I'm for unbanning Kyurem-Black.
  24. bubbly

    bubbly

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    883
    Thank you Lord for giving us jabba who brought these great tidings of joy to all men.
  25. Lady Alex

    Lady Alex This game sucks. Ban everything and it might not.

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    Messages:
    555
    I had secret a backstage pass and was told about it yesterday XP. Anyway, I'm glad that the community's concerns are being addressed and that some of the hot button pokemon are going to be up for suspect tests.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)