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np: BW Ubers Suspect Round 3 - Dazed and Confused

Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by bojangles, Apr 2, 2013.

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  1. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!

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    Ugh! I really hate watching these replays because they're just so predictable (and they last forever). Having to sit around and watch your opponent spam Substitute and Protect as they fish for boosts must be the most infuriating thing ever, especially when it's with a bunch of crap like Bibarel and Glalie.

    Trying my best to ladder, but it's not Moody, it's just that I'm not that great of a battler. ;_;. However, my experiences with Moody are just of frustration. Without Toxic / Sleep, Moody users honestly can't do much to my Dialga. But... I can't do much in return if you have A) Ingrain, or B) a couple of SpD boosts. Even more annoying is that Smeargle gets Spore. >:(
  2. Chirac

    Chirac

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    That was hard as hell. Smeargle Magic Coat is the game. It ensures you to Spore/Boost/BP everytime against fast taunters like Deoxys, other Smeargles and Darkrai who attempt to put you into sleep.
    And then, if you're not too unlucky with the Moody boosts, you get a free turn of set up.

    This strategy is not so broken, but yea as Melee Mewtwo said upper, it's a low risk / high reward strategy. And I know there are more broken strategies on the ladders based on moody x)
    But in fact the deal is to build around Moody user(s), or to build against them. And I think it's not so different than the usual choice we make between using Kyogre or Groudon, or playing with or against Nidoqueen in RU for example.

    Also, since the Evasion Clause was deleted, I won't understand if this suspect keep the Moody Clause.
  3. AJC

    AJC

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    whoever at gamefreak coded moody sould had had the idea denied and the person(s) fired.

    i'm currently at 1852 with 50 dev with a win loss of 53-34 and most of those wins were against people who knew what they were doing and still lost because of how bullshit moody can get and that was with the early moody teams floating around on on this thread never mind the later battles were i used more professionally made ones.

    the fact i'm close to the req cutoff (just maybe 20-30 more battles that are wins for me in my case) despite my lesser actual skill at ubers just using moody alone sould be clear that there is something inherently overpowering about moody and it's probably not healthy for the meta and that it was right to get rid of it the first time.
  4. Gabranth

    Gabranth

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    Unbaning moody would be a bad joke, but then again sometimes when I see some acclaimed BW Uber RMTs or players it feels like the whole tier has become one.. No offense intended.
  5. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo I am hungry
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    How can this not be consistent? (open)
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Stuck with the same team throughout, my biggest troubles were the sand teams (and Enguarde who always outplays me ;_;) but other than that it was really easy.

    Oh, there are some more nice replays of Moody BS.
    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uberssuspecttest-14838796
    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uberssuspecttest-14838220

    They are both very clutch swings where my Moody mon gives me a win I shouldn't have had at the very end when all hope was lost.
  6. AJC

    AJC

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    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uberssuspecttest-14854334

    seriously i don't want to be in battles like this.

    moody is just so degrading to skill that it sould be banned just for that fact battles get won just by pure chance and no skill what so ever involved.

    the only risk in using it is not getting the right boosts and it's actually pretty easy to fish for them.
  7. H-C

    H-C

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    Facing some moody teams were fucking boring, I don't see the interest of the suspect except trying to increase the haxx part in Uber which I find ridiculous. Anyway, I'll vote for the ban of Moody.
  8. wiithepeople

    wiithepeople

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    I'm still fishing for Moody Octillery users, but I haven't seen any yet. :(
  9. Chirac

    Chirac

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    @Wiithepeople: Me neither. During my 70 battles I've never seen one.


    Edit: Why deleting Alex Walls' post? He made a joke yea, but his ranking was serious, and I guess he want to vote too.
  10. dcae

    dcae naughty list

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    I got bored of trying to req while I was testing out various troll teams employing Moody users. I missed out by 40 Glicko2 in the end, but it doesn't really matter because everyone is voting to keep it banned, which is where it belongs, and thus my vote would be irrelevant. However, I must admit, Moody is fun as hell to use.
  11. Sheen

    Sheen

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    Man that was hard to get.
    I've been reading through the whole post, and I have to mention some bullet points about Moody, but first I want to talk about the main users of this ability, which are 4 (Bibarel, Glalie, Octillery, and Smeragle)

    General Comments
    -All of the 4 users of the ability, are weak to Aura Sphere.
    -Moody, when one uses it, you never ever get the evasion or speed boost. When the rival uses it, he always gets it.

    Bibarel and Octillery
    -Both are supposed to work the same way, the only difference being: Bibarel goes physical, while Octillery goes special. Their only coverage are Return and Waterfall for the former, and Surf and Ice beam for the latter. The other two moves are Protect and Substitute of course. (Surf and Waterfall are boosted by rain btw)
    -One can work around it, and eventually take them down, but that basically depends on the boost those Pokemon get. If they get evasion, or speed, and if you lack an Aura Sphere/Thunder user, then gg. However, as mentioned before that's a 2/7 probability.
    -If there are Toxic Spikes up, then that might a problem, because while the Moody Pokemon are getting their boosts, the rival Pokemon is losing HP every turn.

    Glalie
    -Same story as for Bibarel and Octillery, with the difference being coverage moves, and lack of boost under weather.

    *However, we got one of the most annoying Pokes to get this ability:

    Smeargle
    -He can do pretty much everything you want. Spore and Protect are two moves you will always see from this lil' guy. The other two moves? They could be Batton Pass, Substitute, Taunt, Mirror Coat, Stored Power, Ingrain, Double Team, Shell Smash, Quiver Dance, bla bla.
    -Spore + Protect means that he can get at least 3 turns of Moody, so the likehood of getting an evasion or speed bost increases. From then, it can do pretty much everything.

    Personally, during my journey on the ladder, I've faced at least 20 Moody teams. I lost to one guy, due to Evasion and Speed boosts, and after I lost he PM'd me asking for some advice on the team he had. I used some terms such as "Metagame" or "Revenge Killer" and he asked: "What is metagame and revenge killer?". I felt terrible for a while.

    The point is, some unexperienced trainers may get the luck on their side and turn the tables in 2 or 3 turns where they can set up and proceed to win. This brings the concept of luck to the game, which has been greatly discused. One can even make a standard team with like 3-4 pokes and the last guys will be a Moody user, and then see how it goes in order to beat you up. I know luck may be against them, but it may not be against them either.

    Anyways, I think Moody should be banned.. I can't say forever because next Gen GameFreak might think about making it raise +1 and drop -1, or who knows what... but at least during 5th gen, I'd say it must be banned.
  12. justinjiaxinghu

    justinjiaxinghu

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    Moody has to be banned. Seriously. With Moody, practically anybody can grant themselves wins with Smeargle with Protect and Subsitute. It completely eliminates skill from the tier, so great players like Calloflochie and Sweep may lose to like, a beginner cuz of fucking Moody (no offense callo and sweep)
  13. Alex Walls

    Alex Walls

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    Oh ... They deleted my epic post, so :

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    [​IMG][/img]


    It wasn't really difficult, I only lost by hax and versus Moody, so in my opinion Moody should be ban, it kills the game and skill.
  14. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo I am hungry
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    Lol

    Anyways, I want to nitpick some of the things you said because they are a bit inaccurate.

    For the General Comments:
    -Being weak to Aura Sphere/Thunder doesn't really matter. Moody mons just Protect/Sub stall you out of PP or until they get the boosts to just outright KO you.
    -I disagree with this as well. Moody isn't like Focus Blast, it's actually pretty darn consistent. Unless you are just flinging your Moody mon out there willy-nilly and praying the right boost conveniently falls into your lap. (Which you can do, you just don't do it unless that's all that is left)

    For Beaver and Octopus:
    -They are very different. The biggest difference is that Bibarel is reasonably fast (as in at +2 it outspeeds Scarfmons) whereas Octillery is a slow fart and thus relies on his bulk to get going. Also, Moody mons don't use coverage moves. Mono attacking sets can still easily sweep teams whereas the extra utility from Taunt (or Twave in the case of Octopus) helps to make sure they get that sweep set up.
    -If you run Beaver is really hard to work around because of Taunt. Don't think Sun will stop it, either. It'll still 4HKO your Dialga and Giratina-O with Waterfall once it gets all its boosts. Again, you don't just randomly hope for the right boosts. You use your team to create a free turn that allows them to engage in a Sub/Protect cycle.
    -Yeah, Toxic Spikes are really good for Moody mons. In fact my Moody team didn't even have SR on it, just some silly SashTenta set.

    And for Face:
    -Again, Glalie uses a Mono attacking set with Frost Breath and Taunt which is a whole lot better than Beaver or Octupus. Ice has really good mono coverage in Ubers and the constant Critical hits from Frost Breath lets Glalie ignore enemy SpDef boosts as well as his own SpAtk drops. (It still applies the boosts however :D) The only real drawback to Face is the SR weakness that limits how much it can Sub/Protect spam. (It also has the bonus of being Hail immune but nobody uses that so it doesn't really matter much)

    For cute Doggy Painter (I like the shiny):
    -I disagree again. Smeargle can run all sorts of stuff but it pretty much separates into two groups Smash Pass Smeargle and Moody Smeargle. Smash Pass Smeargle is the same as it has always been except that it can nab extra boosts thanks to Moody (which makes Protect a viable move for the 4th slot). Moody Smeargle, however, will function a lot like every other Moody mon. It'll pack Substitute and Protect like them with the third slot being either Baton Pass or Stored Power depending on whether you want Smeargle to sweep or somebody else. (Syrim should be posting sometime soon about Stored Power Smeargle. I never tested it but it apparently is REALLY good) The fourth slot depends on the rest of the team. Spore can be used to buy Smeargle that free turn with ease but this should only really be used with an Espeon as it leaves Smeargle open to Roar/Taunt/Encore etc. Ingrain is a cool choice to give you infinite Sub/Protect spamming and remove the prediction out of early phazers but like Spore it should only be used with Espeon or another Moody mon with Taunt since it still leaves Doggy Painter open to Taunt/Haze/Perish Song/Encore. Taunt is the final choice (I might be missing some though, Disable looks cool, I just never tested it.) as it allows Smeargle to stop all the roundabout ways of stopping his Moody Abusing as long as he out speeds.
  15. AJC

    AJC

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  16. Faint

    Faint Valar morghulis
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    I played against Moody 7 times on the ladder. I lost against it twice, but I'm still voting in favor of a ban. I tried using it myself and lost 3/3.
  17. Santuga

    Santuga

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    Applying that big ban hammer
  18. lousy918

    lousy918

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    Damn it I got close to making reqs but two days of 100% hax against me along with my friends com crashing when I used it resulted in like 15 bad losses
    could this be extended by like a day coz ladder started late
  19. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo I am hungry
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    There's two days before special apps are due so just use those to get the reqs. Odds are things will be delayed, anyways, so just keep laddering.
  20. Xelx

    Xelx
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    Ban
  21. Santuga

    Santuga

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  22. wiitle

    wiitle Daughter of a back-alley doctor
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    moody sucks
  23. TEzeon

    TEzeon I'm a ramblin gamblin dude!
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    Moody only seems to be broken on Smeargle, which puts it in the same boat as Sand Veil Garchomp IMO. While I think it would be a better idea to just ban the Pokemon as opposed to banning the ability, I'll agree with whatever the community decides on.
  24. Focus

    Focus Nerd is the word.
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    Here is the very first rule on the Rules page:
    (I don't mean to minimod, I just want to state our philosophy.)

    Banning Smeargle from Ubers is therefore out of the question because it goes against the whole point of Ubers: to use any Pokémon you want. If we ban anything in this situation, it would be Moody.
  25. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!

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    ^I think Spore could be added to this, but doesn't really matter I guess.

    I have a question: are we arguing that (for those against Moody), that
    Moody is broken, or that
    Moody is based on hax?

    Or are these equivalent?
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