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np: BW Ubers Suspect Testing Round 1 - Mama Said Knock You Out UPDATE POST #95

Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by bojangles, Oct 21, 2012.

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  1. bojangles

    bojangles IF YOU TRULY BELIEVE,
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    Welcome one and all to Smogon's very first ever round of Ubers Suspect Testing. Jibaku, Great Sage, and I have agreed that we should start with OHKO Clause, because we believe it will impact the metagame the least. Will we be proven wrong? Who knows. That's for all of us to find out.

    The way this will work is as follows. After 2 weeks of laddering, the Ubers Council will convene to decide whether the metagame is stable enough to move to a large-scale measure. The only reason this would not be done is if the metagame is so uncompetitive that it does not function at all. At this time, they can also vote to amend the clauses in certain ways as a further option in the vote. After this meeting, we will look at the ladder and use a set of requirements to determine who can vote. We're taking a page from OU's book and setting the requirements at a Glicko2 rating of 2000 and a Glicko2 deviation of 55 or lower on the Ubers ladder. Note that this is the UBERS ladder, not the Ubers Suspect ladder. There will be no Ubers Suspect ladder, since we want to keep all the activity concentrated. Also be aware that, if we are not satisfied with the amount of people who qualify with the above ratings, we may lower it; do NOT rely on this, however.

    Here's a timeline:

    • Sunday, October 21: Ubers Ladder has been reset and OHKO Clause has been removed
    • Sunday, November 4, 11:59 PM: Round finishes. A screenshot will be taken of the ladder and a thread will be posted to identify yourselves.
    • Tuesday, November 6, 11:59PM: Special applications are due and we will start voting.
    • Sometime after the round ends but before we begin voting, we will have a council meeting on #uberscouncil on SynIRC. The date and time will be announced further down the road when the council members' schedules allow.
    Good luck, brave soldiers.

    [youtube]vimZj8HW0Kg[/youtube]
  2. Haruno

    Haruno I choose you!
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    Interesting. I'm looking forward to how this'll work out.
  3. exotic

    exotic

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    The only thing I can think of is Hone Claws Excadrill. How much is his accuracy of fissure after one hone claw and wide lens? And 2?

    OHKO moves are kinda luck based, but 30% is really low.
  4. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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    Sheer cold is not effected by accuracy or evasion modifiers (meaning its always the same accuracy, it doesn't even go down).
  5. Theorymon

    Theorymon You have a fever. I prescribe more dead angels.
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    OHKO moves are not effected by normal accuracy modifiers. The only accuracy changes that effect OHKO moves are Mind Reader, Lock On, and No Guard.
  6. exotic

    exotic

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    Ah, I didn't know that. I guess OHKO clause won't have any impact on the metagame. It seems that it is only a high risk, high reward move.
  7. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo SO TIRED of listening to your nonsense, you massive gasbag!
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    I'm going to try to use mostly stall teams for this suspect. They are the only ones that could actually be affected by OHKO moves so I feel they are the best ones to tell whether OHKO is somehow overwhelming or just a trolly gimmick.
  8. ThisMysteriousGuy

    ThisMysteriousGuy

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    I'll be using my Balance team so that I can see whether or not the removal of the OHKO clause actually does anything to my bulkier Pokemon while still being able to ladder efficiently thanks to my cleaners not caring about OHKO moves in the slightest. 10-1 now (mostly cause of hax and teams that aren't too too good), I have a LONG way to go in order to make reqs o_o`
  9. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    using hyper offense for sure

    nice song
  10. chaos 9

    chaos 9

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    Glad I built 3 solid teams, offense, balance and stall! I plan on seeing how each of them fares.

    Gonna be a party. Also, just to clarify, if we achieve recs at some point during the voting period and we screen shot it, is that sufficient? Or do we need to hold recs until the end of the phase?
  11. Porii Sames

    Porii Sames

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    So I haven't gotten around to playing it yet, but what strats exactly would work better with this? Articuno? Sub/Roost/Mind Reader/Sheer Cold?
  12. dice

    dice infinite bliss flows but does not ebb
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    Sheer Cold RestTalk Ogre seems interesting.
  13. Porii Sames

    Porii Sames

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    Hydrarest Lapras with Sheer Cold & Horn Drill? Just throwing things out there.

    Ogre also seems cool. I just don't really see why you'd use this other than as gimmicks.
  14. GaryTheGengar

    GaryTheGengar believe me sweety I've got enough to feed the needy

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    http://pastebin.com/1HPWJdYR
    this should sum up why removing ohko clause isnt a good idea

    EDIT:
    okay my comp is glitching up like mad, and links to a showdown battle instead of pastebin. Its also showing me joining + leaving like a billion times >_>. oh well, the point still stands.
  15. Friar

    Friar

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    I think Stall teams have the most to gain in using OHKO moves. Stall teams usually find a lot of passive free turns where they typically set up hazards or phaze. If you have a free turn and the opponent is about to switch, if I was playing stall I'd be willing to give a OHKO move a shot.

    Offensive teams I think have less to gain. Set up moves or powerful attacking has more merit on free turns than going for OHKO moves. If it fails, you're on the backfoot, and that's a huge problem for frailer offensive teams. Stall teams have the defensive backbone necessary to take a OHKO risk. It would also be an interesting stall breaking option for stall teams, as stall vs stall is typically reliant on the teambuilding, and this new dimension to the game would make matchups between defensive teams even more intricate.
  16. nyttyn

    nyttyn No regrets
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    Oh yeah I remember that battle, good times.

    But yes, seconded. For the love of goodness don't remove OHKO clause. It adds nothing to the metagame and makes BS like this possible.
  17. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    there's a reason we have banned all OHKO moves from all tiers, it's because they're completely uncompetitive and take away skill from battles, replacing it with sheer luck...really I only see these OHKO moves as a last-ditch effort for the loser of a battle to overtake the winner as a result of a 30% chance, what kind of bs is that?
  18. locoghoul

    locoghoul

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    ^ easy kid. There is a reason for testing. If it proves to be unhealthy then it will remained banned BUT with some solid -sorta- evidence this time. So far my thoughts have been confirmed: it doesn't have a -negative- impact on the metagame. Most of the teams I've played against don't have OHKO users/moves. IMO, it will remain as a gimmick on lower ranks in the ladder if unbanned. Let's see what happens in 10 days
  19. polop

    polop
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    OK so I ended up testing HO and balanced and I ended up almost never encountering a single OHKO move x_x. There was this one time I saw a Kyogre using Sheer Cold but saying its efforts were futile is an understatement (lol), there is no place for these moves to be used in such a fast-paced environment. If you thought sleeping Ogre were setup bait for Dragon Dance Rayquaza wait until you see what Scald Sheer Clod Rest talk variants are.

    I'll go ahead and try OHKO moves on my own team later on (on an alt though :P), but I'm not too hopeful about their potential.

    @Lavos Spawn, yeah but they risk losing a winning game if their move DOES miss too lol.
  20. Antar

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    Is anyone besides me concerned that a rating cutoff of 2k is a bit high for Ubers? IIRC, it'll mean you're limiting the decision to 2-3 players.
  21. Great Sage

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    We're just using what OU's cutoff is as a baseline. The rating requirement will definitely be revised if we find that very few people make the cutoff now.
  22. Antar

    Antar
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    k

    For the record, I think removing OHKO clause is an AWFUL idea. But I also believe hax items (Brightpowder, Quick Claw, etc.) should be banned. Pokemon has enough of a luck component WITHOUT adding additional elements.
  23. The Immortal

    The Immortal Administrator of Showdown!
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    [​IMG]

    I just wanted to say that in one of my battles, I had Fire Blast miss 5 times in a row. Now that did not cost me said battle; however, an OHKO move (which has twice the chance of hitting as Fire Blast does missing) hitting me 5 times in a row would definitely cost me a battle. As a result, I feel the OHKO Clause should remain.
  24. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Congrats on the reqs, The Immortal!

    Your reasoning to ban OHKO move is shitty, though. Have somebody actually hit you with an OHKO moves 5x? You need to back your decision with less theorymon and more play experience. Using one outlier game to show how extreme luck played against you doesn't prove anything (other than you had bad luck).
  25. The Immortal

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    Thank you!

    You are correct, and as far as I saw OHKO moves were rarely used (the few times being Sheer Cold Kyogre), and only successfully hit me once; however, it is still luck as you mentioned. I shouldn't have to lose or win a game because of luck.
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