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NP Celebi Sandstorm team

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Dark Fallen Angel, Nov 30, 2012.

  1. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    Messages:
    799
    Introduction

    With Genesect banned from the metagame, I guess that this Celebi's set is significantly more viable. Although rain teams now have Tornadus-T, which can easily revenge kill NP Celebi, I have my ways to play around him, and good checks to him, so that Tornadus-T is not really a problem.

    I made this team after hearing people saying that NP Celebi is not good anymore. I had to prove that they were wrong, and then I made this team. I also made this team for other reasons, such as prove people that Tyranitar is just as good or even better than Hippowdon, that Keldeo is really underrated and physical Landorus is just as good or even better than special Landorus (but only on sandstorm teams of course).

    NP Celebi requires some support to function, but it's a good sweeper nonetheless. It has many advantages over other sweepers. First, it has Giga Drain to compensate Life Orb recoil and passive damage from Sandstorm. It also has good coverage, and of relevant things, Celebi only misses out Lati@s and Hydreigon, all of which can easily be checked.

    I made this team to battle during Genesect suspect test, where there was a ladder on which Genesect was banned. It was also being used to battle on the brazilian PO server, where I kicked so many asses with this team.

    The team

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]






    Celebi

    [​IMG]

    Lucas (Celebi) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Nasty Plot
    - Giga Drain
    - Psychic
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Role: Center of team, sweeper.

    This is the star of my team, of course. Celebi is a shitty sweeper? No! With support from the rest of team, Celebi can wreck avoc rain teams, and some other teams like weatherless, sandstorm, and even sun if I manage to win the weather war and deal with some things like Volcarona.

    While initially the fact that Celebi is not immune to sand damage, combined with Life Orb recoil would make seem that Celebi was going to have a short time on battle, with Giga Drain, this is not the case. Giga Drain makes up for that, keeping Celebi healthy on battle and giving him a great weapon against Water-types. Psychic is chosen because it also receives STAB, and is my only attack on the team that is super-effective against Fighting-types, although most of them have another common weakness, such as to Fire or Ground, and Conkeldurr is OHKOed by Specs Hydro Pump from my Keldeo (even outside rain). However, it has other applications, such as having great neutral coverage alongside Hidden Power Fire and Giga Drain. It OHKOes the dragons and genies after a Nasty Plot boost. Speaking of Hidden Power Fire, it's there to defeat the Steel-types that Grass + Psychic coverage misses out.

    Sadly, this combination leaves Celebi walled by Heatran, Victini, Lati@s and Hydreigon. Hydreigon is easy to check, Heatran and Victini are easy to deal with Keldeo and Landorus, and Lati@s is defeated by Tyranitar.

    Forretress

    [​IMG]

    Leonardo (Forretress) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Volt Switch

    Role: Hazard setter, spinner

    What it does to help Celebi: Setup hazards that make sweeping easier

    Forretress never disappointed me, and was (and still is) a staple on most of my teams. It can reliably setup hazards and Rapid Spin. If there's a Ghost-type waiting to block Rapid Spin, Volt Switch is there to scout that Ghost and switch to the appropriate check.

    I don't use Toxic Spikes because they suck on this metagame, and because I don't need them for most part. Instead, Stealth Rock and Spikes do the job. I am using a specially defensive EV spread, so that Forretress can survive resisted special attacks such as Draco Meteor.

    Stealth Rock is a must for every team. Spikes are also good, though I generally setup Stealth Rock first unless I see that the opponent has too many Pokémon resistant to Stealth Rock but vulnerable to Spikes.

    A Bold Nature is choosen because Forretress is not using any relevant physical move to which it needs to use max Attack to deal damage (as Rapid Spin is only being used for its effect). I used a Bold nature and 0 Atk IVs just in case that Forretress gets confused, as it takes less damage from confusion. This also lets Volt Switch deal more damage, although it's really only going to do "significant" damage to Cloyster and things 4x weak to it such as Gyarados.

    Tyranitar


    [​IMG]

    Guilherme (Tyranitar) (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 100 HP / 252 Atk / 156 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Stone Edge
    - Pursuit
    - Crunch
    - Superpower

    Role: Weather setter, wallbreaker, trapper

    What it does to help Celebi: Defeat Lati@s. Can also pursuit some dangerous things, and open holes on the opponent's team

    Before someone asks why I haven't chose Hippowdon, let's me explain why. Tyranitar has much more utility in general. It is able to counter/check Lati@s, and can use Pursuit to trap and defeat some dangerous Pokémon. Apart from Psychic and Ghost-types, Tyranitar can trap some frail Choice users locked on the wrong attack, such as Thundurus-T and Tornadus-T locked on Thunder/HP Ice or Hurricane, respectively.

    Stone Edge 2HKOes even physically defensive Skarmory, most of time after Stealth Rock damage. Crunch is more reliable than Stone Edge and stronger than Pursuit, and is so powerful that it's able to 2HKO most bulky Water-types, not to mention the havoc that it causes on Psychic-types, slow Ghost-types and more frail things that are neutral to it. Finally, there's Superpower. It's as powerful as Crunch, though I only use it against things weak to it, and when I suspec that the opponent is going to switch a Fighting-type. Superpower deals heavy damage to most Fighting-types, and in fact, it saved me from being swept by a Focus Punch Breloom.

    156 Speed EVs are chosen to outspeed minimum Speed Dragonite. 252 Attack EVs for obvious reasons, and the rest goes to HP, for more bulk.

    Landorus

    [​IMG]

    Gustavo (Landorus) (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sand Force
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Role: Revenge killer, late-game sweeper

    What it does to help Celebi: Outspeed and defeat some dangerous things, especially Tornadus-T.

    Landorus is the best revenge killer for sandstorm teams, on my opinion. It becomes stronger with sandstorm, has U-Turn for scouting, and outspeeds so many dangerous threats, such as Dragonite and Salamence after a Dragon Dance boost.

    It's very sad that Landorus doesn't have a good Flying-type attack, but Earthquake and Stone Edge generally give sufficient coverage for him. Hidden Power Ice is rarely needed, but is useful against Landorus-T and Gliscor. It's also more reliable against Dragon-types, although even Stone Edge does more damage if they weren't previously weakened.

    Keldeo

    [​IMG]

    Vitor (Keldeo) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power [Electric]
    - Icy Wind

    Role: Wallbreaker, late-game sweeper, dealing with some things like Steel-types

    What it does to help Celebi: Deal with some things like Heatran, and open holes on the opponent's team. It's a great attacker in general.

    Keldeo was a blessing to my team. The primary reason why I put him is because it can deal with some things that I would need, for example, of Fire-type attacks to deal with, such as Scizor and Ferrothorn, both of which are OHKOed by Hydro Pump (even outside rain) and 2HKOed by Secret Sword, respectively. Although Keldeo is depply associated with rain, it wrecks avoc on sandstorm as well.

    If you don't have anything with good Special Defense AND a resistance to Water not named Chansey or Blissey, good luck trying to tank a Specs-boosted Hydro Pump. Even the aforementioned blobs are defeated by Secret Sword. Having a STAB Fighting-type attack is always good to deal with Rock-, Dark- and Steel-types, all of which are common on the metagame. Secret Sword also hits the opponent's defense, which somewhat means that Keldeo is technically a mixed wallbreaker, and it is the only special attacker that can easily bypass the pink blobs without prior setup!

    My choice of Hidden Power was Electric. I don't need Hidden Power Ghost because Tyranitar and Landorus can both easily deal with Celebi. So, I chose Hidden Power Electric because it still lets Keldeo bypass Jellicent, but it also deals with Gyarados and Tentacruel, both of which would give headaches to Keldeo otherwise. It's also slighty stronger than Secret Sword against any bulky Water-type that is not specially defensive.

    Icy Wind is chosen on the last slot. In past, I understimated Icy Wind's utility, but it's a great attack. Should I predict a Dragon-type switch-in, Icy Wind lets me weaken them and outspeed. It also 2HKOes Dragonite and Lati@s, and OHKOes most things doubly weak to it. Even if the opponent doesn't switch a Dragon-type, the speed-reducing side effect lets me switch something that can defeat the opponent while it has its speed lowered.

    Heatran

    [​IMG]

    Vinicius (Heatran) (M) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Will-O-Wisp

    Role: Spread burns, check some things like Dragonite and Venusaur

    What it does to help Celebi: Protect him from some dangerous Sun-based and Dragon-type sweepers

    Heatran was the answer to my problem with some sun sweepers and Dragonite. It checks all of them reliably most of time. At cost of another Water- and Fighting-type weakness (the latter which can somewhat be alleviated by burns) I have something that can stop sun teams on their tracks once I remove their Dugtrio (or whatever they use to defeat Heatran). It also defeats any Dragon-type lacking a Fighting- or Water-type attack. Heatran serves as a supportive attacker that also spreads burns. Fire Blast is there for obvious STAB and because it becomes even stronger with Flash Fire activated or against Sun teams. Earth Power is there so that Heatran is not walled by opposing Heatran. It is also a more consistend attack than Fire Blast to use against Magnezone and weakened grounded Steel-types weak to Ground. Hidden Power Ice is what lets me defeat Dragon-types so reliably. Will-O-Wisp is a nasty surprise to physical sweepers, especially Fighting-types, that think that can switch on Heatran safely.

    Pokémon that I no longer use (open)

    Jirachi

    [​IMG]

    Lucas (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 SDef / 32 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Wish
    - Body Slam
    - Iron Head
    - Fire Punch

    Role: Spread paralysis, check some things like Tornadus-T, Wish support

    What it does to help Celebi: Support him (and the team in general) with Wish, spread paralysis to help Celebi, Tyranitar and Keldeo outspeed more things, and check one of the biggest threats to Celebi on rain teams: Tornadus-T

    Jirachi fell to me from the sky. Joke aside, Jirachi is a key supporter on my team. It spreads paralysis, which is very important, not only to Celebi, but to the rest of team. It checks dragons like no other Pokémon on my team can, and haxes them to death. The reason why I chose Body Slam instead of Thunder Wave is because of Baton Pass teams, and also because paralyzing Landorus and Garchomp can cost games. It has been actually a very reliable way to paralyze opponents, and Body Slam is also Jirachi's strongest attack against Fire- and Water-types. Wish Support is also ideal, as although Celebi has Giga Drain, not even him likes to switch in at low health.

    Iron Head is chosen for obvious reasons, and Fire Punch is there to not leave Jirachi walled by Ferrothorn, Scizor, Forretress, and some other things.


    Threats to the team

    Needs update after I test this team as I changed it a bit

    [​IMG]<-- Can trap 2 things on my team and mercilessly kill them: Tyranitar and Jirachi. Not a big deal for the rest of team, but I hate having to lose valuable support and my weather inducer.
    [​IMG] <-- If it's able to get more than one Dragon Dance boost, killing him will be a great pain, especially if it doesn't have wasted its Lum Berry. SubDD sets are even harder to deal with.
    [​IMG] <-- As long as I am able to mantain weather control, it's not a big deal. However, if it manages to get a Growth boost and sun is shining, I have to carefully play around to kill him.
    [​IMG] <-- Against the SubPunch set, I have to carefully play around. If I lose my Celebi, dealing with that set will be very hard. Other sets aren't as much of a deal.
    [​IMG] <-- This thing can, with V-Create, 2HKO Tyranitar... even on sandstorm - as long as it uses Choice Band. Worst yet, 156 Speed EVs aren't sufficient to outspeed him after one Speed drop from V-Create.

    Final thougths

    I tried, and sucessfully created a team that can wrek avoc with Celebi. I hope that with Genesect being banned, this team becomes even more viable. The threats that I mentioned above, such as Victini, Dugtrio and Venusaur, were generally paired with Genesect, and I hope that they also drop on usage with Genesect's ban.

    Now I would like to know what are your opinon on this team. Is it good? Do I need to change something? Am I giving the right support to Celebi?

    If you plan using this team (open)
    Code:
    Leonardo (Forretress) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Gyro Ball
    - Rapid Spin
    - Volt Switch
    
    Lucas (Celebi) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Nasty Plot
    - Giga Drain
    - Psychic
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    
    Guilherme (Tyranitar) (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 100 HP / 252 Atk / 156 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Stone Edge
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower
    
    Gustavo (Landorus) (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sand Force
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    
    Vitor (Keldeo) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power [Electric]
    - Icy Wind
    
    Vinicius (Heatran) (M) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Will-O-Wisp
  2. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude "The Phone-Post King"
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Media Contributor
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    Hey Man awesome team based around one of the PotWs! ;)

    As you mentioned in your rmt your team does have some pretty big threats. Dugtrio can trap Tyranitar and Jirachi to key pokemon in your team and ko them. With no Gyro Ball on Forretress a +1 Dragonite can be quite threatening for your team with only Landorus who can take it on and even then if Landorus has taken some prior damage he will fall to Extreme Speed. Venasaur in sun can sweep your team after a Growth boost, SubPunch Breloom is quite threatening if Celebi is weakend and Breloom is behind a Substitute because he can hit everything hard with Focus Punch and Keldeo will not like taking a Seed Bomb. Finally a Choice Band Victini with V-Create / Fusion Bolt / Brick Break / U-turn can do some serious damage to your team hitting all but Landorus super effectively.

    To help your team against pretty much all these pokemon except Victini you can use Mamoswine>Jirachi with Icicle Spear Mamoswine can beat SubPunch Breloom behind a Substitute, Dragonite behind a Substitute and Dugtrio with his Focus Sash intact. Ice Shard is also a key move on Mamoswine being able to revenge kill weakend Venasaur in sun, 1 Hp Dugtrio and Dragonite that has a Dragon Dance or two under its belt. Although with Mamoswine you lose your Flying-type resist and gain another Water-type weakness you are still not really weak to rain teams with Keldeo and Celebi murdering a lot of common rain pokemon while Mamoswine can take on Tornadus-T ohkoing it with Ice Shard after Stealth Rock with an Adamant nature and Life Orb, he also helps with Ferrothorn a common pokemon on rain teams by beating it with Superpower.

    Good luck with the team i hope i helped!

    Sets
    Show Hide
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Mamoswine @ Life Orb | Thick Fat
    Adamant | 4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Ice Shard | Icicle Spear | Earthqauke | Superpower

    Tl;dr
    Show Hide
    Show Hide


    Mamoswine--->Jirachi



    ~Superpowerdude
  3. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

    Joined:
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    I am really afraid of using Mamoswine and augmenting my weakness to Fighting, Water and Grass. Although I don't doubt that Mamoswine would really help me against those threats. Not to mention that priority is always welcome. I still want to hear more opinions about this to know what I'm going to do.
  4. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude "The Phone-Post King"
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Media Contributor
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    well Grass-types are fairly uncommon in the tier and none of them can switch into Mamoswine safely because Icicle Spear does a lot to them. Ferrothorn the most common Grass-type in the tier is beaten by Mamoswines Superpower, weakend Grass-types can be revenge killed with Ice Shard. So Grass-types are not a problem at all Forretress can get up hazards on any Grass-type lacking Hidden Power [Fire] You do have two Fighting-type resist and Forretress to sponge their attacks. Rain teams are already covered quite well with Keldeo and Celebi and even Mamoswine can chime in by beating Tornadus-T, Thunderous-T and Ferrothorn.
  5. dragonuser

    dragonuser Today, tomorrow, and always with a frozen heart
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tutor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Pyramid Kingis a Past WCoP Winner
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    Hey there,

    This team looks pretty cool, and I like its use of NP Celebi. So like you noted, Dragon-Types look pretty troublesome to face. DD Dragonite looks pretty hard for you to stop if Landorus has taken some prior damage, and Venusaur also looks difficult to deal with if Sun is out. To help with this I would recommend Offensive Air Balloon Heatran > Jirachi. Air Balloon Heatran is a great Dragon and Sun check, and can also beat Dugtrio if you play carefully. Heatran will give you a lot more flexibility vs Venusaur, while also being a great check to Dragonite. Heatran is also a pretty decent Flying-Type resist. I would recommend a moveset of Fire Blast / Earth Power / Hidden Power [Ice] / Will-o-Wisp. Fire Blast is Heatran's goto STAB, while Earth Power helps with coverage. Hidden Power Ice is a great way to deal with Dragon-Types, Dragonite especially. Will-o-Wisp is more of a filler move, and can be dropped if you find it lackluster. However I see Will-o-Wisp being very beneficial for you. You can burn incoming Dugtrios (if your balloon is broken), and also spread status like Jirachi did. Anyways, cool team and gl.
  6. King of Blades

    King of Blades

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2012
    Messages:
    160
    Hi!

    I love that you are basing a team around nasty plot celebi, as he is one of my favorite pokemon, who was unfortunately hampered by the release of genesect into OU. Now that genesect was banished to the land of uber strong god pokemon, nasty plot celebi finally has a chance to shine.

    I would like to second dragonuser's suggestion to change jirachi to air balloon heatran, however, I disagree with one point. Heatran's item should be shed shell. Heatran's air balloon can easily be broken by any attack, meaning, if the opponent is smart, they will keep their dugtrio safe from harm until the air balloon is popped. When this happens, you go back to the same problem that you had with jirachi. Dugtrio proceeds to kill heatran, opening up a sweep for venusaur. Heatran also gives you the celetran combo, which gives celebi and heatran perfect coverage against one another's weaknesses, as well as completing a nice fire/water/grass core.

    I also think that using forretress to set up spikes and stealth rock as well as rapid spin is a bit of an overload, and a waste of a moveslot, as he will rarely have to to do both in a match. I would suggest replacing spikes with gyro ball and changing forretress's ivs to 31 atk, 0 speed with a relaxed nature. gyro ball allows forretress to hit faster threats like terrakion hard. I would also suggest replacing leftovers with red card. I know this sounds very weird, but hear me out. Leftovers recovery is not reliable recovery. In fact, forretress doesn't even have room for substitute or protect, which would be the main ways of getting leftovers recovery. You noted that two of the most dangerous threats to your team are set up sweepers. This is where red card comes in. When they inevitably try to skewer your poor little pine cone, red card will force them out, getting rid of their boosts and leaving them both, especially dragonite, to revenge killing.

    My final change is to change keldeo's item to life orb. I know keldeo hits like a truck with choice specs, but 3 choice items on one team is pretty excessive, especially since it leaves you a bit weak to sub/disable gengar. Life Orb gives keldeo the power to hit hard while giving it the freedom to change moves at will. This adds to keldeo's power, as it can now hit venusaur with an icy wind on the growth, assuming it doesn't go straight for the giga drain or the energy ball.


    Hope this helps, and good luck with the team!

    ~KoB
  7. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

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    To be honest, with exception of using Life Orb on Keldeo and Red Card on Forretress, I've actually used Offensive Heatran with Air Balloon, and a Forretress with Stealth Rock/Gyro Ball/Rapid Spin/Volt Switch. However, I've ironically thougth that using Jirachi and a different moveset on Forretress would help me. I was wrong. Maybe using Heatran again will be of great help, since it was him that saved me from being swept by a Venusaur and Dragonite so many times...

    However, I am going to use Air Balloon. King of Blades, while the situation that you presented is a sad reality, without Air Balloon, Heatran can't effectively check Dragonite, since most of them carry Earthquake. As long as Dragonite doesn't carry something strange like Brick Break or Waterfall, Heatran should be safe.

    As for Forretress, I think that Leftovers is still the better option because recovery is recovery, no matter how unreliable it is, but at least Leftovers is better than Rest.

    As for Keldeo, wouldn't Life Orb recoil combined with sandstorm passive damage kill Keldeo too quickly? If this is because of 3 choice items problem, maybe using Expert Belt or Wise Glasses is a better choice, but none of them boast the same power level as Choice Specs...
  8. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    565
    Yo, nice team :x

    I think that your team is rather weak to Terrakion. Scarf Terrakion can outspeed any pokemon that you and with the correct move it can murder Celebi with X-scizzor, with 2 Stone edge it can 2ko Landorus, Terrakion and Heatran are koed by Close combat and Forretress, which can take a hit cant do much in return. If you face any other variants, like Cb or Sword dance, its pretty much the same, but Terrakion just hits stronger anything even though you can revenge kill it with Landorus. I also think that Tornadus-t gives this team some issues, since it can ko Tyranitar with superpower, heavily damage Heatran, and ko with Hurricane Keldeo and Celebi, Landorus can revenge kill it but it can switch-in safely on it. Some bulky set of Volcarona also can be problematic, since after some Quiver Dance Heatran's fire blast will not do enough, and it has Giga drain or Hurricane to kill your Keldeo. Offensive Starmie can also be problematic, it can 2ko ttar with hydro pump, do a lot of damage to Celebi with ice beam and can kill Keldeo with Thunderbolt.

    An easy fix to your terrakion weakness is to run a max defensive Forretress with Gyro ball. In this way you can switch-in more often to Terrakion, and actually do some damage. It also help to deal with Mamoswine though. You should run Gyro ball instead of Stealth rock here, because i also think that you should change your Choice Band Tyranitar to a Specially defensive one with Chople berry. The reason is quite simple, in this way you can beat Tornadus-t, taking a Superpower and ko him back with Stone edge, and other Focus blast users easier, like Gengar or Thundurus. A set of Stone edge / Crunch / Pursuit / stealth rock should work here. An easy fix to deal with Bulky Volcarona is to put Roar instead of W-o-w on Heatran, so that you can phaze it out without worry too much. A nice fix for starmie would be to give more special defense on Celebi, but since its your main sweeper i dont think that i can change it: however i think some of your speed evs here are quite useless, i think that you should have enough speed to outspeed lucario and nothing else. A spread like this EVs: 180 HP / 252 SAtk / 76 Spd with timid nature should give you more bulk to tank ice beam from starmie, so i think you should try it.

    Summary:

    Forretress: EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef / Relaxed Nature over your current spread
    Gyro ball over stealth rock

    Tyranitar set:
    Show Hide
    Tyranitar @ Chople Berry
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 76 Atk / 92 SDef / 88 Spd
    Careful Nature
    - Stone Edge
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Stealth Rock


    Heatran : Roar instead of W-o-w

    Celebi : EVs: 180 HP / 252 SAtk / 76 Spd instead of you current spread

    hope i helped :3

    ps. while i was rating your team, i thought that you can also try a completely different strategy with Baton pass Celebi. You can run bpass instead of psichic, to pass the boost to your pokemon. You can change Specs keldeo into a Scarfed one, so that you can spam fast and strong Hydro pump, change your Scarf Landorus into a Rock polish one with sheer force, and you can even try a sweep with Flame charge Heatran. I know its quite different by i think its a nice idea :3
  9. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

    Joined:
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    Just asking which notable threats you outspeed with a SpD Tyranitar with 88 Speed EVs.
  10. Goutland

    Goutland

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2012
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    157
    Looking at the speed tiers list, it looks like defensive Politoed is the biggest one you might stay in on, and the other things you outspeed are Skarmory, Hitmontop, 0 speed Breloom, Jellicent, and 44 speed Vaporeon/Scizor.

    It's exactly enough speed to outspeed neutral base 70s with 16 speed EVs, which seems like a really hipster number. Might as well go with the on site spread with 76. Seems like most of these you wouldn't stay in on unless you could kill, live a hit, or avoid being burned. But then again, I don't think I really see min speed Dragonite too much so 156 could be overkill on speed EVs too. A few more and you can outspeed defensive Gyarados if you want.
  11. Leftiez

    Leftiez *Stars*

    Joined:
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    1,022
    Hi Fallen Dark.
    It is a very solid teal overall, but it carries a lot of weaknesses in the OU, too common weaknesses I think, I'm talking about Landorus spec/Thundurus agility/Tornadus T that will make 1 kill each investment on the ground if the player is not a noob, can I constant you have overlooked many pokemons in the T-List as Kingdra,Gliscor (SubToxic) and Volcarona that heatran has ball and not leftovers.Then why don't you Spikes + Sr on Forr3, it is a lot of pressure that you put him there above all that usually happens a place more than one in the game which is not really beneficial for you and your sweep, me I would already see Hidden power Ice on Steal rock and Tyranitar in Stall:

    Show Hide
    (Tyranitar) (F) @ Chople Berry
    Feature: Sand Stream
    EVs: 204 HP / 96 Atk / 208 Ahmed
    Sassy Nature (+ SDef, Spd)
    -Stealth Rock
    -Crunch
    -Pursuit
    -Rock Slide


    Then I noticed that Terrakion sub salac berry was a 6-0 because it OHKO Landorus with a SD and outspeed also because you don't have attack priority;
    so I you Council to establish a Quagsire on Keldeo which is not a big thing, quagsire can come on the sweeps with the cap Yes Unaware forgetting stats boosts, he becomes a monster to Kion/Nite ect...:

    Show Hide
    Quagsire (F) @ Leftovers
    Stroke: Unaware
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Ahmed
    Relaxed Nature (+ Def, Spd)
    -Earthquake
    -Toxic
    -Scald
    -Recover


    Good luck :)

    ~Leftiez
  12. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    565
    mostly Jellicent, even bulky Politoed and skarmory, but you can drop it if you think that u dont need it.

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