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np: LC - Tiny Dancer (VOTE HERE)

Discussion in 'BW LC' started by Dubulous, Nov 29, 2010.

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  1. Dubulous

    Dubulous I look just like Buddy Holly.
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    This thread is for the discussion of suspects in LC. Exercise some common sense and make sure your arguments make sense. If you make an audacious claim such as “+1 Zuruggu OHKOes the universe” or “Carvanha can’t even 36HKO Caterpie,” back them up with calculations! Bold statements are pretty useless without evidence. I also will not tolerate snide remarks or anything abrasive. Stuff like “LOL I can’t believe you think something so ridiculous!” will result in a warning. I want a civil discussion here, so keep the passive aggressive stuff and snarky little asides to yourself.

    Here are the things which you can vote to ban or allow in the LC Metagame:

    Code:
    Evolution Stone
    Inconsistent
    Meditite
    Zuruggu
    
    Now, you are probably wondering how to vote. Well, luckily for you, I'm about to tell you! The voting system is virtually identical to last time, but this time Vader and I are going to be much more stringent in our selection. Here's what you gotta do:

    1) Private message Vader and I with your ballots with banned things' names bolded and allowed things' names normal. So, if you wanted to ban Evolution Stone and Inconsistent, but not Zuruggu and Meditite, your ballot would look like this:

    2) Then, in a paragraph, in full sentences, describe why you believe that the Pokemon/Ability/Item you are voting to ban deserves to be banned, or why they deserve to remain if you are voting that way. Don't be afraid of length. While the minimum is one paragraph, Vader and I encourage users to write as much as they want!

    Voting will be closing January 8, 2010 at 11:59 EST. Any votes sent in after that point will be considered void without very good reason being given as to their tardiness.

    Thanks again for your time, and I encourage you all to vote!
  2. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    fffff

    Anyway, I think the main thing we need to take a look at is Evolution Stone. It's ran on about every single Pokemon and it's basically Berry Juice but even more broken on defensive Pokemon. Every Pokemon with a Recovery move or a set up move is almost automatically better than any other Pokmeon.
  3. R_N

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    Maybe I'm just not up to date on recent policies, but I thought that there was an item clause in place?
  4. Bynine

    Bynine

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    I saw an Evolution Stone Tesshido in use, and it was ridiculous. Hits glanced off it like they were coming from Blissey.
  5. Elevator Music

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    +1 Zuruggu OHKOes the universe

    In all seriousness, I think the two big things that people should be keeping in mind are Evolution Stone and Zuruggu. I don't really think either of them are broken, but I'm hoping people find some good ways around them pretty quickly because the last time (like last week as I dont have PO atm) I played they were pretty dominating. Not unbeatable though.
  6. Destiny Warrior

    Destiny Warrior also known as Darkwing_Duck
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    There isn't an Item Clause in place.

    To be quite honest, I don't think testing Evolution Stone is even necessary. SUre, it makes bulky mons insane, but recall that most bulky mons have mediocre offenses, meaning Zuruggu sets up on them to plow through a team. Zuruggu is already like EVERYWHERE, so I think Evolution Stone Zuruggu p.much cancels out any advantage that defensive mons get from Evolution STone.

    Or, you know, you guys could use Embargo!
  7. Darkamber8828

    Darkamber8828

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    Because countering something with itself doesn't make it uber?
  8. Destiny Warrior

    Destiny Warrior also known as Darkwing_Duck
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    I added a footnote!

    And I'm not really sure about Evo Stone anymore, after rereading SDS' RMT.

    (Personally, I want it unbanned, but I understand why it deserves a test)
  9. timetwister

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    Embargo would not stop Evolution Stone, you need Knock Off.
  10. Rotom-S w/balloon

    Rotom-S w/balloon

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    Embargo prevents pokemon from using their held items.

    Or you could use magic room.
  11. timetwister

    timetwister

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    Embargo only prevents an item from activating, like Leftovers or Salac Berry. An item like Evolution Stone would not be effected.
  12. Encube

    Encube

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    I'm no expert on LC, but with the addition of Shell Break are the likes of Clamperl and Shellder too powerful? I believe Lv. 5 Modest DeepSeaTooth Clamperl reaches 72 Special Attack after a Shell Break, which seems pretty insane.
  13. Chieliee

    Chieliee

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    That's......HUGE!!!
    (checks it)
    let's see 18×2×2= 72!
  14. LeviLamprey

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    Isn't Clamperl going to be banned? Or is everyone crazy? Guaranteed OHKOs on everything is a little cracked, even if it can't take Gras/Electric special moves.
  15. Plusle

    Plusle

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    This. The whole metagame is 2hkoed
  16. ala

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    I've used dual screens with Evo Stone on all of my sweepers and it is ridiculously easy to win. Ban it imo.
  17. Destiny Warrior

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    OK, about Clamperl.

    72 SpA is huge, yeah, but think about this: After a single Shell Break, Clamperl is sitting at 24 Speed(since its Modest), with NO priority, and no bulk either. Its REALLY easy to revenge kill.
  18. AriadosPerson

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    Clamperl @ Pre-Evolution Stone
    Timid Nature
    236 SpA/236 Spe/36 HP

    Shell Break
    Surf
    Ice Beam
    Hidden Power [?]

    With this, Clamperl hits 16 Defense, 32 Special Attack, 13 Special Defense, and 26 Speed after a Shell Break, giving it great offense and Speed while still having the defenses to take a hit or two.

    (At least, I think... I may be a little off)
  19. Lou Cypher

    Lou Cypher

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    I'd recon that without Deepseatooth, Kabuto, Omanyte and Shellder would actually be a lot more threatening.
  20. SupremeDirt

    SupremeDirt

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    I'd say Deepseatooth needs to be banned, tbh. Clamperl is just simply too strong after a Shell Break. Even without Modest, it has 68 SpA, which is STILL monstrous, and 26 Spe is not exactly slow. Even without the Shell Break, it can dent things.

    By removing Deepseatooth, Clamperl hits a much more manageable 32 SpA, or 34 with Modest. It still is going to wreck things, but at least you can take one or two of the hits, especially with Evolution Stone.

    Pre-empting any people suggesting it, we cannot ban Shell Break the move. It's not like banning Double Team, which almost everything in the game learns, banning Shell Break is limiting a select group of Pokémon (Clamperl, Kabuto, Omanyte, and Shellder) which would be like banning Outrage on Garchomp in Gen 4 OU, neutering the Pokémon just so we can have it unbanned.
  21. Loves_Eo

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    I'm quite tempted to say Evolution Stone should be banned. However I think we should perhaps look at who benefits the most from it and think about banning them.

    First, Zuruggu. The absolute bane of stall teams. I'm not even sure there is a counter to this thing even if you have 1, because while you switch, he bulks up or dd's. Then +1 Zuruggu rapes you team with Drain Punch and Crunch. That's really all he needs against the majority of the LC metagame. He has 3 great abilities to choose from and a great movepool. He can also run Ice Punch, which deals with Gligar, maybe the only counter to zuru if he's switched into something other then Ice Punch. The best way to maybe deal with him is to have something that can harm him in when he switches, but that relies either on godly prediction skills or luck. To me that doesn't represent non brokneness.
  22. Calm Pokemaster

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    DeepSeaTooth Clamperl should be put to vote first, followed by Zuruggu. It might seem redundant after all the other posts, but that thing with a EVo. Stone and 1 Shell Break boost can effortlessly sweep your whole team. That brings me to Evo. Stone. Every wall can now have an Evo. Stone, but the use of an Item Clause will remedy this problem. Oh, and Zuruggu. That thing sets up on walls like Burungeru who cant do much to it(Shed Skin cures status, the only way they can cripple it), takes squat from their weak attacks, and has reliable recovery in Drain Punch.

    So, what we should do is either ban Evo. Stone completely, or enforce an Item Clause. DeepSeaTooth should be banned completely. If Evolution Stone is banned(though it is unlikely), then Zuruggu stays(since it becomes easier to revenge that way). We should decide what we want: Evolution Stone or Zuruggu.
  23. v

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    No item clause.

    We've discussed this in the past, and there simply isn't sufficient variation in items in LC to make an Item Clause a viable solution. If anything, Item Clause would have been implemented to nerf Berry Juice. The general consensus was that Item Clause is not good for the metagame. So, no Item Clause. Period.
  24. Alchemator

    Alchemator my god if you don't have an iced tea for me when i
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    In my experiences, Zuruggu isn't overly threatening.

    In my experiences, Evolution Stone isn't overly gamebreaking.

    In my experiences, Zuruggu with Evolution Stone is really tough to beat.

    However, I believe that Evolution Stone is the fault of this difficulty. My main way of beating Zuruggu (which is pretty darn reliable) is to use the common Croagunk priority set - being very susceptible to Vacuum Wave makes life hard for Zuruggu. However, with Evolution Stone, Zuruggu will not die from a combination of Fake Out and Vacuum Wave as it would without the item. This leads me to believe that Evolution Stone is a broken item.
  25. czechm8

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    I agree 100 percent with the evo stone's brokeness especially on Zuruggu who to deal with I must sac my gunk to weaken then use a priority user to finish it off if it's gotten a dd and if I have no more priority users it's often gg. I haven't had the misfortune to have to fight deepseathooth shell break evo stone clampearl yet but I can see it possibly being over centralizing.
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