NP: NU Stage 0 (Beta) - Bring The Noize (Cofagrigus is Banned)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Rapture

we are so かっこいい
is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
I really want to see people using Brick Break to counter Aurora Veil. There are lots of Pokemon that can learn it.
funny you mention this, sadly there aren't many pokemon that are able to give up coverage/power to run it. That being said here's a neat set i've been using on some spikestack teams to help in the AV matchup


Kangaskhan @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Double-Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Brick Break


Standard kanga with the exception of brick break over earthquake. This works especially well as a lead since most opponents are willing to trade fake out + eq damage (these two moves don't kill if jolly which is still the prefered nature a majority of the time imo) for rocks, leading to an easy ko with fake out into brick break. This also has the benefit of wasting hail turns forcing the opponent to play more desperately to get up screens with slash. kanga in general does well versus the more offensive archetypes that aurora veil finds itself on due to its priority and strong af normal stab. works well with spikes support since brick break isn't nearly as effective at beating out rock/steel types like eq. Try it out imo n_n.
 

Brawlfest

I SOUND WEIRD LIKE NIGGA WITH A HARD R
is a Team Rater Alumnus
I have actually been tinkering with Rotom-Frost quite a bit lately. I feel like there is a lot of untapped potential here, but I definitely do not think Choice Scarf is the way to go in the current metagame. First and foremost, why would we use Choice Scarf on a Pokemon that has viability solely because of the threatening nature of its dual STAB? Seems to be defeating the point of using it. Additionally, Rotom-Frost is almost completely outclassed as a Choice Scarf user by Rotom-Mow, in my opinion, because Rotom-Mow is not weak to Stealth Rock, has a much more reliable secondary STAB, and manages Ground types (Steelix, Piloswine, Rhydon, and Seismitoad) all much better, which is pretty important for an Electric type that is choiced. The only upside Rotom-Frost has as a scarfer is not being walled by opposing Grass types, so like a small niche of revenge killing Virizion and full health Sceptile, when Rotom-Mow can just run HP Fly anyway, is really not selling the best point at all here, I feel. Overall, I'd consider Choice Scarf Rotom-Frost borderline viable, but certainly not the main selling point of the Pokemon and definitely an underwhelming set.

@ Icium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Blizzard
- Will-O-Wisp
- Thunderbolt

This is the main set I've used and I feel like it, and maybe Specs, are the two best sets for Rotom-Frost right now. This set is pretty much (defensively) uncountered in this tier outside of Piloswine, Cryogonal and Lanturn, the former of which can only really set up Stealth Rock and do some chip in exchange for getting Burnt anyway. Obviously, it has downsides -- Stealth Rock weakness being a big one, but also poor defensive typing and presence in general does not do it any justice. Ultimately, Blizzard with Z is a nice nuke and means of bluffing the Choice Scarf variant mentioned above and BoltBeam STABs are so fucking good right now. It threatens teams and puts a dent into a lot of the generic balance cores with SR Grounds, Slowbro, and a Grass type, so it can be considered "anti-meta" to an extent. I still think this Pokemon is not necessarily the best pick right now simply due to so many things holding it back like I mentioned before, but if it is played properly and can get in a few times, then it can do well in most match-ups.

252 SpA Rotom-Frost Subzero Slammer (185 BP) vs. 244 HP / 128 SpD Steelix: 310-366 (88 - 103.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Rotom-Frost Subzero Slammer (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Machamp: 298-352 (92.8 - 109.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Rotom-Frost Subzero Slammer (185 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Garbodor: 307-363 (84.5 - 100%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Rotom-Frost Subzero Slammer (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hitmonlee: 238-282 (98.7 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Rotom-Frost Subzero Slammer (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mismagius: 250-295 (95.7 - 113%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Rotom-Frost Subzero Slammer (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Seismitoad: 331-390 (79.9 - 94.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Rotom-Frost Subzero Slammer (185 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kangaskhan: 313-369 (88.9 - 104.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO -- guaranteed OHKO w/ SR

s/o krusty krab btw
Yeah I've played with the Icium set as well! I think the main merit of the scarf set is the fact that while it sacrifices the coverage that pressures the majority of the bulky backbones in the meta, the majority of the offensive mons (fast grasses primarily) it checks do demand that it outspeeds them to do so (or as far as a bluff takes it) especially considering most pack the coverage to take it out. The scarf set I don't think is that unviable and retains a lot of the positive attributes of being a ground and grass switchin and having a fast volt switch that scarf Rotom-C does. I personally feel that the icium set does a completely different role of acting as a raw nuke by exploiting its powerful unresisted coverage, but once the bluff expires it isn't difficult to revenge. They just check two completely different sets of mons.
 

Martin

Like the hole in a doughnut
is a Forum Moderatoris a Live Chat Contributor
Moderator
If we're talking about Brick Break, I'd like to bring up this bad-boy tht I think any and all Veil teams should be using:


Sandslash-Alola @ Light Clay
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 248 HP / 12 SpD / 248 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aurora Veil
- Brick Break
- Rapid Spin
- Iron Head / Icicle Crash / Hail

EVs come down to preference. I'm not gonna take credit for this set 'cause I started using it after someone used it vs me in a roomtour (i forget who, but if it was u plz come forward). Brick Break achieves two very important things for securing a good matchup vs opposing Veil: breaking the opposing team's veil and severely denting Alolan Sandslash. What makes this set so fucking good is that it just completely maxes out the utility that Alolan Sandslash brings to the table and just comes in handy way more often than dual STABs does for me. If you're feeling particularly real you like I am with the listed spread, you can even underspeed opposing Alolan Slash to ensure it never gets Veil up agsinst you (ok this bit's mine lol and it probably won't be worth it anymore if this becomes mainstream)

Anyway, on the topic of Veil (ban it IMO), some nice mons I've been fucking around with on it:


Vanilluxe @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Blizzard
- Freeze Dry
- Ice Shard / Flash Cannon / Hidden Power Rock
- Explosion

Scarf Vanilluxe serves two key purposes on Aurora Veil teams: it provides a countermeasure to rain teams which doesn't rely on messing around unnecessarily, and it allows you to sac off Aurorus in the lead slot while still being able to set up Veil again later on in the match to secure the setup of a teamate after its own teammate failed to clean up. It improves the flexibility with which you can play Veil, and I found that I wasn't really bringing out either Scarf Drap or a fourth sweeper as often as I was using this, which makes it worth stacking weaknesses to ease up Sandslash's ability to function and to ensure that certain matchups don't give Veil a headache.


Mismagius @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Dazzling Gleam
- Taunt

Not only is this really nice for its ability to dismantal non-Ditto stall builds and other bulkier teams, but with Aurora Veil support this thing is really stupid to try and remove when it gets out versus the right Pokemon, taking most hits from full thanks to Veil and Ghostium weakening KOff, and this combines with its high Speed stat to allow it to really give offensive builds a headache as well as functioning really eficiently versus defensove builds. Also having SOMETHING that can switch into Machamp's Facade/CC is really valuable on a very Fighting-weak playstyle, especially when you have something like Turtonator in the back to abuse it predicting with KOff.

Finally, something that I have been using both on and off of Veil which I think is really underrated ATM and puts in a lot of work in a lot of games:


Slowking @ Colbur Berry / Psychium Z
Ability: Regenerator / Oblivious
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Nasty Plot

- Scald
- Psychic

OTR Slowking works wonders in this meta, having a very easy time setting up both TR+Nasty Plot together thanks to its exceptional all-around bulk and its choice of Colbur Berry or Z-move. You can run 3 attacks if you want, but IMO at that point you might as well run Slowbro a lot of the time, especially if opting for a Z move. The reason why I have listed Oblivious is because I've been using it on AVeil and found myself not using it as a pivot, and it has come in handy a few times by allowing me to set up on unsuspecting Taunt users wothout busting potential Psychium to get TR up (although I usually use Colbur + another Z-move user on these builds, increasing its utility further). I'd go as far as saying that I believe this is the best OTR Pokemon in the tier currently. Psychium is just to help break bulky shit, but Colbur is very nice because it allows you to get up NP+TR when they switch into Drapion while also allowing you to set up on shit like Houndoom unfazed.
 
Last edited:
Maybe suspect Sceptile? With the exception of niche mons like Accelgor it outspeeds everything and there is usually no drawback in spamming specs leaf storm as even resists take tons from it. Imo it makes alot of other fast threats like tauros, raichu, dodrio etc way worse than they would have been, which restricts teambuilding quite alot.
 
Maybe suspect Sceptile? With the exception of niche mons like Accelgor it outspeeds everything and there is usually no drawback in spamming specs leaf storm as even resists take tons from it. Imo it makes alot of other fast threats like tauros, raichu, dodrio etc way worse than they would have been, which restricts teambuilding quite a lot.
First of all, Accelgor is not niche. It's actually very underrated in this current meta. Now, for the actual point. I don't believe Sceptile is broken, and it's too early for a suspect. Even then, after Beta when we get suspects, I think it'll be fine.
The Specs set has issues with not being able to switch moves. That's a lot worse than you think it is. With Fires, Grasses and the sort, it's possible to tank it and force it out.
The SD set has the problem of still not getting past bulky foes like Steelix and Golbat. It has coverage but only 2 slots. It has to choose from Rock Slide, Drain Punch (which IMO is mandatory), Earthquake or, if one is going the Unburden route, Acrobatics.
I'll write more later but imo it's not broken. If certain things leave I'll reconsider though, because IMO if one more check or counter goes to it it's time for a suspect.
 

Teddeh

They say I'm up and coming like I'm fucking in an elevator.
is a Tiering Contributor
i'd support a sceptile suspect test tbh, with the exception of golbat, there aren't many pokemon that can switch in (and weren't in NU last gen) and it still provides a huge strain on team building. Also, the specs set can always be traded out for a life orb set which can use giga drain for recovery, and since sceptile has such a low hp stat, it would easily recover up more than enough on a neutral target to cover the life orb damage. The set coverage is the worst thing about having to deal with sceptile and I would definitely suggest that a suspect test is the best course of action.

If it's not broken, it won't be banned, but I think that Sceptile has enough going for it to warrant a suspect. :toast:
 
id also disagree with sceptile suspect atm, considering every bulkier team has a bulky poison + grass type to pressure water types, sometimes fire type too. there is lot more pokemon in tier rn to worry about at first and sceptile doesnt rly stand out as broken atm.
But in future, i can definitely see it suspected after tier gets more stabile and not pressured to run mandatory pokemon on balance and even bulky offense
 
Status
Not open for further replies.