NP: NU Stage 1 - Issues (Aurora Veil Banned)

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Jarii

formerly boring
#27

Froslass @ Focus Sash
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Avalanche
- Destiny Bond
- Spikes

Shamelessly copying this set posted in some RU tread back in April I think. This set works the same as the lead set, just a bit more creative. Since Destiny Bond got nerfed (fails after using it consecutive turns like Protect), slower mons are more likely to avoid being knocked out themselves. But Avalanche having -4 priority lets you get around that. The Destiny Bond effect lasts until you actually execute the Avalanche, the opponent will attack first, knock out Froslass and be knocked out in return. Try it!
Okay I tried this set vs qsns and Z+V and I must say this would probably work if Xatu wasn't this dominant as it is right now it would work, but the fact you can not hit Xatu while it's in hurt alot especially on HO. Other set I tried out was Choice Specs Froslass and holy moly that hits insanely hard.

Froslass (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic / Thunderbolt / Spikes
- Destiny Bond / Trick / Spikes

With amazing offensive typing good Speed and okay spA it fits Specs perfectly, good to note is that this is another offensive spinblocker that isn't Mismagius what is amazing for HO. Ice beam / Shadow Ball hits almost everything neutral besides like Sneasel (probably something else i forget but oh well), 3rd move I personally like Psychic the most to hit Hariyama, Thunderbolt gives Froslass BoltBeam which is always good. You can also use it like Specs Accelgor in SM NU
with Spikes when they switch in their counter or check. 4th move is basicly filler of what you like the most. Although I don't think Froslass would make a massive impact on the metagame it would certainly be a good mon to play with.
 
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Martin

Like the hole in a doughnut
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#28
If the ladder is updated I haven't played any games on it since the tier update, but just by looking at the changes they seem to have a pretty big impact on stall on paper. Losing Quagsire blows chunks for sure, as does the loss of Drapion for TSpikes stall due to its stellar role compression abilities on the archetype, but the loss of Machamp and the gain of Mega Audino, combined with the loss of Meloetta from a few weeks ago, are both really big things.

Machamp severely restricted the way that stall was able to build; it basically mandated the use CroTomb or physically defensive Sableye (generally the former) to prevent it just 2HKOing everything available to the archetype in three moveslots. Spiritomb has lot pretty much any purpose it had on the archetype now unless you still wanna use CroTomb as your wincon for some reason, and no longer needing to keep this and Meloetta in check combined with the newfound lack of Quagsire to counter CB Emboar variants and the introduction of Mega Audino to the tier is probably going to result in a pretty big shake-up with regards to the way that you are able to realistically go about building stall teams. Just gonna comment on a few Pokemon that are affected rather than proposing any kind of framework for now, although I'm probably gonna be messing around with stall a lot in the next few days (prolly after the Veil vote) to see if I can get a working build in this new metagame.


Pyukumuku obviously benefits from this; it loses its competition from Quagsire in the Unaware slot, now only really competing with Ditto as the means of preventing strong setup attackers doing a number on stall teams; the inability to really do anything vs users of Taunt and Sub is a bit of a downer, but when paired with stuff like Golbat or Roar Steelix which can counteract this in particularly dangerous cases this isn't that huge of a deal. Definitely still functions best on aggressive Protect+TSpikes stall builds, maybe alongside smth like Roselia which can keep stuff like Rotom-C or SEdge Virizion from being a bastard while absorbing TSpikes and setting them on its own.


The other Pokemon that loses a member of its competition on stall teams. Being generally useful for its ability to help with PP issues still dealing with particularly setup attackers that lack Sub and hit themselves very hard–see: Vivillon, Barbaracle, Turtonator, ZHB Virizion etc.–and consequently discouraging setup nicely, I'm sure that metagame conditions are beneficial to allow Ditto to thrive. Unlike Pyukumuku it isn't gonna be quite as dependent on the type of stall, but I reckon that it still faces very heavy competition from it just because of the fact that Pyukumuku is able to make quite a lot of teams very useless while it is still alive, whereas Ditto doesn't shut down quite as many teams and is very dependent on what its opponent brings to a degree that it risks being very inconsistent if not put on the right kind of build. The other big thing it has over Pyuku is that it can be safely used alongside Vaporeon or Slowbro or whatever without stacking weaknesses, which is really big.


While losing the option of TSpikes when compared to smth like SpD Drapion, Skuntank does a nice job of replacing it in the Pursuit trapper role while retaining the ability to absorb TSpikes and having the option of Defog open to it, allowing it to either free up a moveslot for Golbat to use a full-on stallbreaker set or forming a double Defog core with it (more likely the latter) that makes keeping hazards off of the field a simple process that is flexible wrt situation. Band Sneasel is also nice just because of its speed tier allowing it to pose as a giant "fuck you" sign to non-Colbur variants of both Delphox and Mismagius on stall/semi-stall teams which make use of Eject Button or VoltTurners or whatever.


A nice addition due to its superb bulk and good typing/range of utility options. It shuts down Taunt Mismagius really nicely due to Gleam only 2HKOing at +6 (Rockium and Will-O-Wisp variants just get shut down by Pyuku, even if they carry TBolt/EBall for whatever reason, so only Ghostium/Colbur+Taunt really poses much of a threat) and makes for a nice Regen pivot pre-mega too. It also provides a new option for a wincon while pretty seriously surpassing its competition wrt overall bulk; CM+RestTalk+Gleam or CM+WishTect+Gleam both seem like fun for sure, and I'm gonna mess around with them defo. Between its cleric/pure utility set and its CM sets it has a lot of things which may work.

All in all really fun-looking shift for just about every playstyle, but I wanted to talk about stall for a bit 'cause unlike OU it's actually fun to play/build with in this tier lol
 
#29
Hey. just wanted to give a couple thoughts on the metagame changes.

Froslass
Froslass seems like a great tool for hyper offence to abuse. It can run a lead or a possible specs set. The lead set is great for hyper offence having tested it on the ladder. Some people may think froslass outclasses other leads like omastar but I don`t think so. Omastar can get up rocks and use shell smash to pressure some offence teams and hazard removers. They honestly play very differently and are both solid options right now. The specs set faces a lot of competition from vanilluxe and I think it requires some kind of spikes support to really shine over vanilluxe because froslass is just so weak. I havent personally used specs yet so I could be wrong but I can assume that this wont outclass Vanilluxe. I guess they kind of play dofferently too, Vanilluxe is a breaker and froslass is more of a cleaner and threat to offence.

Mega Audino
Audino is finally back from last gen and its still pretty solid. Its sets include wishtect, crodino and cm 3 attacks. I`ve personally only used crodino so far and its been working quite well. Its especially good against bulkier teams that have their audino checks weakened or killed. At that point crodino can easily clean up with its massive bulk and cm. wishtect could be a great asset for balance and stall and while aromatisse does give it some competition its a lot bulkier and provides a ghost resist which is relevant because of mismagius. Cm 3 attacks will probably be a lot rarer than in oras but that just means it might actually work as a lure again.

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Offensive ghost and psychic types
These really appreciate drapion leaving as it was a commonly used mon which checked or pursuit trapped them which stopped them from sweeping. Unfortunately, ghosts now have to worry about mega audino which does kind of wall them, especially rotom who has no boosting move to at least somewhat alleviate it. Audino can also be annoying to the psychics if they are not running a setup move just because its so bulky.

Hariyama
This thing will basically be the replacement for machamp right now. Its basically just a worse version of machamp because it has less speed and power. However, this can still break bulky teams similarly just like machamp did. of course its assault vest set still exists as a nice check to a good amount of mons like vanilluxe and houndoom. This existing means that balance and stall teams still have to prepare for this which means those teams wont be buffed that much by the machamp rise.
 
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