np: NU Stage 1 - Welcome to Heartbreak

[waterwarrior]

Carracosta isn't nearly as good as the other two, mainly because:

-ass Speed is even more ass than Byss/Tail, so it's revenged by so much more (Aqua Jet is not godly)
-hazards + sturdy = u mad?
-less than stellar defensive typing, being 4x weak to Grass, weak to Ground, etc., and Solid Rock isnt as great as people make it out to be

 

[Sabinfrost]

^ might as well mention Carracosta then, since he also gets Shell Smash and hits harder and is more bulky then Huntail, not to mention with Sturdy, he will always get a Shell Smash off unless he's Taunted.

Carracosta is slow as all hell compared to the other two... it gets outsped by pretty much all scarfers after a shell smash... Hell it gets outsped by Pokemon that are not scarfed after a shell smash. It also has exploitable weaknesses, compared to the other two. Might as well discuss shell smash Torkoal if you are going to bring up Carracosta.

 

[Avira]

Carracosta may be slow, but it has a much better movepool than Huntail, which has a very limited movepool, and Carracosta also has great secondary STAB, as well as priority to pick off weakened threats or to get in one last hit.

 

[Honus]

The speed thing isn't really a dealbreaker, since a Pokemon at +2 Attack [Base 108 with that] and 358 Speed, not to mention priority, isn't bad by any means. No one complains about Lucario's speed in OU and it's among the most popular Swords Dance sweepers. Carracosta may be easier to stop than Gorebyss/Huntail, but once its counters are gone, then it should have an easy sweep. What I'm saying is that while it may not be the best SS Sweeper, it's certainly not a bad Pokemon.

 

[Sabinfrost]

The speed thing isn't really a dealbreaker, since a Pokemon at +2 Attack [Base 108 with that] and 358 Speed, not to mention priority, isn't bad by any means. No one complains about Lucario's speed in OU and it's among the most popular Swords Dance sweepers. Carracosta may be easier to stop than Gorebyss/Huntail, but once its counters are gone, then it should have an easy sweep. What I'm saying is that while it may not be the best SS Sweeper, it's certainly not a bad Pokemon.

It's usable but very easy to counter.... Lucario isn't even comparable to Carracosta as Carracosta isn't slow by tier standards, it's slow in general with only 35 speed. Anything can taunt it before it smashes and there are tons of Pokemon that don't mind switching into it, Quagsire in particular will shut it down completely, even more so than Gorebyss.

Aqua Jet is nice, but it's also completely unnecessary on the other Shell Smash sweepers.

 

[jake]

It's usable but very easy to counter.... Lucario isn't even comparable to Carracosta as Carracosta isn't slow by tier standards, it's slow in general with only 35 speed. Anything can taunt it before it smashes and there are tons of Pokemon that don't mind switching into it, Quagsire in particular will shut it down completely, even more so than Gorebyss.

Aqua Jet is nice, but it's also completely unnecessary on the other Shell Smash sweepers.

And considering the tier standard for "fast" down here is base 80 Speed... Carracosta isn't bad. I think Karpman's comparison to Lucario was a pretty damn good one.

 

[shnen]

Just saying that a scarf jynx rinning ice beam-energy ball-psychic-whatever kills every skngle ing on the swellow-sawk-byss core if sawk's sturdy has gone, somI know what scarfer I'm gonna be using :)

 

[canno]

Carracosta is bulky, unlike Gorebyss and Huntail, who are relatively fragile. Carracosta can work as a bulky ShellSmasher, which only puts it in competition with Torkoal. Also, thanks to his bulk, he has a higher chance of getting a second ShellSmash. While Rock/Water typing gives it bad weaknesses (Ground, Grass(x4), Fighting, Electric) he does get some decent resistances (Fire(x4), Flying, Ice, Normal, Poison). He also has access to Solid Rock if Study isn't working out for you. While it could be better, it's not too bad, notably making Ground and Fighting less of an issue, as those are commonly physical. He's much better than Huntail at least, who has the worst movepool out of the 4 smashers. He's also superior to Torkoal simply because Fire is (arguably) a much worst typing than Water/Rock, having less resistances and being SR weak.

 

[shnen]

simply because Fire is (arguably) a much worst typing than Water/Rock, having much more weaknesses and being SR weak.

fire = water, rock and ground weak
Water/rock= grass, ground, fighting and Electric weak
Just saying, of course carracosta is better than torkoal and SR wekaness is big.

 

[canno]

fire = water, rock and ground weak
Water/rock= grass, ground, fighting and Electric weak
Just saying, of course carracosta is better than torkoal and SR wekaness is big.

:\ Damnit. Don't know why I said that, I meant to say it has more resistances. Fix'd the original.

EDIT: btw, I'm counting having a 4x resist as having more resistances. They have the same amount of resistances f you don't count that, although imo Water/Rock resistances are much better.

 

[destinyunknown]

torkoal sucks as a shell smasher comparing to carracosta, is even slower (20 speed .__.), doesn't get a priority move, much worse offensive stats, SR weakness, worse ability, only 1 stab...

And yeah i agree with Karpman example, 358 speed is good considering you outspeed almost all the tier, and the few pokemon that outspeed you (think of cinccino) are KOed by LO Aqua Jet. You are outspeed by scarvers but hey, nobody is perfect and gorebyss and huntail suffer the same issue.

Jynx was really good in past metagame (though i was like the only one using it and i didn't play the tier that much) considering how common slowking and lanturn were, and jynx could still switch in almost every bulky water if you were carefully in avoiding toxic. It also shitted up special mesprit versions without a SE move (like most subcm)

 

[elchupo]

I used a specially based Carracosta a few months ago as an answer to the Swellow/ Klinklang duo that everyone and their mother were using. I used it because it can come in and set up in Swellows face while with its huge Def it still takes pitiful damage from Klinklang's Gear Grind/ Frustration, even if the latter is at +1/+2. It worked amazingly.

I know Carracosta's Atk is much higher than its SpA but at +2 Surf has a very good chance of OHKO'ing standard Klinklang by hitting it on its much inferior SpD. Also, even with his higher Atk, Waterfall has exactly the same damage output as Surf at +2, thanks to the higher base power of the latter.

Special Carracosta also has Ice Beam to deal with the bitch of all bulky Grass types in Roselia.

So, from experience, if you use Carracosta well, it can wreck shit. It's speed may not be ideal, but its very hard to OHKO with anything other than a Grass move, especially with Sturdy up.

 

[Keiran]

^Roselia moved up but it dies to Stone Edge and can tank Ice Beams.

I've been running Mix Carracosta up in higher tiers (RU) and it's pretty damn effective, Carracosta's special attack isn't half bad, even uninvested. With a neutral nature, after +2 It's SpA hits the 400's and it could help with elimating Pokes like Tangela.

 

[elchupo]

^Roselia moved up but it dies to Stone Edge and can tank Ice Beams.

I've been running Mix Carracosta up in higher tiers (RU) and it's pretty damn effective, Carracosta's special attack isn't half bad, even uninvested. With a neutral nature, after +2 It's SpA hits the 400's and it could help with elimating Pokes like Tangela.

What moves did you run on it that were physical and which were special? I contemplated a mixed 'Costa but I didn't want to loose the coverage that you get with sticking with special. The main merits I could see from using a mixed set is getting to utilise his great Atk while still having access to Ice Beam because physical 'Costa still struggles immensely with bulky grasses if it doesn't have something to hit them SE with.

 

[Endorfins]

A mixed Carracosta is very similar to what most Huntails run for coverage on Grass types, Ice Beam is pretty much the only required Special move as it hits physically defensive stuff like Tangela and Leafeon. After using Huntail in NU, it is definitely worth it to run a physically attacking spread and Ice Beam.
Another thing that really helps Shell Smashers in general is a Dual Screener, behind screens, Gorebyss is almost always able to get off a Shell Smash and start wrecking stuff, the best Dual Screener imo is Serperior (introduced to my via Sabinfrost) purely because it covers Water types Shell Smashers weaknesses (Grass and Electric) as well as having taunt and leech seed to force switches to get my SS sweepers in safely.
What Dual Screeners is everyone else using?

 

[Steamroll]

I haven't had the opportunity to battle at all since the server went down for the biggest updates in a long time (seriously go thank Antar for the work he's doing!).

I have considered two screeners since the tier shifts, 1) being Mesprit for his bulk and ability to take hits, plus the perk of U-turning out. 2) being your mentioned Serperior, 75/95/95 defenses aren't something to write home about but the base 113 speed totally makes up for it. Plus the fact that Serperior can mix up its moves inorder to keep opponents guessing, who wants to take a Leaf Storm, HP ground or a dragon tail to the face while trying to switch in on it?

 

[Sabinfrost]

What Dual Screeners is everyone else using?

I'm a big fan of Serperior (as you know) but the most common ones I tend to see are Mespirit (lead sets running t-wave/u-turn or rocks usually) and Gardevoir , who seems to be most peoples go to screener.

Edit:

Since it was just brought up I think I'll add the set I run for Serperior, it's Max HP/Max SpD timid with dual screens, Light Clay, Leech Seed and Giga Drain. Giga Drain seems pointless but if the enemy lacks the raw power to harm you through screens it works well with Leech Seed. It's also useful in combination with the high speed and Overgrow. Roselia used to check it pretty hard but I didn't mind being forced out into a set up sweeper if I got my screens up.

 

[Style_Dota]

I'm interested in trying out HO this round. With some of the big walls gone, HO seems like it can now do well in this metagame

 

[Keiran]

What moves did you run on it that were physical and which were special? I contemplated a mixed 'Costa but I didn't want to loose the coverage that you get with sticking with special. The main merits I could see from using a mixed set is getting to utilise his great Atk while still having access to Ice Beam because physical 'Costa still struggles immensely with bulky grasses if it doesn't have something to hit them SE with.

I ran

-Shell Smash
-Waterfall / Aqua Jet
-Stone Edge
-Ice Beam / Hidden Power Fire

 

[Molk]

you know, i was wondering how linoone would do in the tier, behind screens it could easily set up a belly drum and sweep entire teams, hitting costa and golem 4x effectively

 

[waterwarrior]

While I do agree that Linoone would be pretty cool, if you plan on hitting Carracosta or Golem with Seed Bomb, have fun taking an Aqua Jet/ Sucker Punch when you have 78/61 defenses and half health.

 

[ChaoticaMortis]

While I do agree that Linoone would be pretty cool, if you plan on hitting Carracosta or Golem with Seed Bomb, have fun taking an Aqua Jet/ Sucker Punch when you have 78/61 defenses and half health.

Yeah, you can't really come in on either and get a clean KO, even with a screen up. However, if they come in on you, it's a slightly different story. If you've already BD'd and your screens are still up you have a solid chance to survive the first priority move and still KO.

 

[Sabinfrost]

you know, i was wondering how linoone would do in the tier, behind screens it could easily set up a belly drum and sweep entire teams, hitting costa and golem 4x effectively

I haven't fought a Golem yet without Sucker Punch and even at +6 Linoones E-Speed isn't that threatening to Golem who will easily KO with EQ

Linoone is very good however, I've used it before, even without setting up a Belly Drum, it's a useful priority attacker. You just need to watch for phasing moves/opponents with offensive presence who decide they are going to attack the turn you set up.

 

[ChaoticaMortis]

Linoone gets Seed Bomb dude.

 

[Sabinfrost]

Linoone gets Seed Bomb dude.

If you're using Seed Bomb, you get taken out by Sucker Punch, you need to use E-Speed so it can't Sucker Punch you. In which case if it predicts around it, you die.