np: NU Stage 1 - Welcome to Heartbreak

[Lady Shinki]

Rotom-H didn't have fire-typing in 4th gen, and I'm pretty sure Normal gets STAB on its Hidden Power too.

I think Lombre could have a niche as a bulky rain offense pokemon and weather renewer, since its STABs cover most of the metagame neutrally. Rain-boosted Hydro Pump hurts in NU no matter what SpAtk stat it comes from, and Giga Drain covers the smashers (though it doesn't stop them from passing, obviously).

Maybe a good spread would be as follows:
Lombre @ Eviolite
252 HP/200 Def/56 SpAtk
Modest / Rain Dish

Rain Dance
Hydro Pump/Scald
Giga Drain
Ice Beam

 

[shnen]

However, Blizzard has an average of 83 base power when factoring in the shaky accuracy, while hp ice has an average ofm70 (of course), so Blizzard would still theorectically be better.
Edit: there is no hp normal kenshiro

 

[ChaoticaMortis]

Kenshiro: first, smashers can't pass down here (THANK FUCKING GAWD), and second, what about a Lombre set that doesn't abuse rain? Rain just makes all the shit he'd try to stop get stronger.

shnen: is that factoring in STAB on both of them? :O And the average power isn't really what I'm concerned with, it's the accuracy. :/ I get fucked sideways by hax way too much to always jump straight into the high power+low accuracy moves.

 

[shnen]

Kenshiro: first, smashers can't pass down here (THANK FUCKING GAWD), and second, what about a Lombre set that doesn't abuse rain? Rain just makes all the shit he'd try to stop get stronger.

shnen: is that factoring in STAB on both of them? :O And the average power isn't really what I'm concerned with, it's the accuracy. :/ I get fucked sideways by hax way too much to always jump straight into the high power+low accuracy moves.

Its not, but it doesnt matter as blizzard is still more powerful (124.5 against 105)

 

[Sabinfrost]

Rotom-H didn't have fire-typing in 4th gen, and I'm pretty sure Normal gets STAB on its Hidden Power too.

I think Lombre could have a niche as a bulky rain offense pokemon and weather renewer, since its STABs cover most of the metagame neutrally. Rain-boosted Hydro Pump hurts in NU no matter what SpAtk stat it comes from, and Giga Drain covers the smashers (though it doesn't stop them from passing, obviously).

Maybe a good spread would be as follows:
Lombre @ Eviolite
252 HP/200 Def/56 SpAtk
Modest / Rain Dish

Rain Dance
Hydro Pump/Scald
Giga Drain
Ice Beam

It's impossible to have Hidden Power Normal

 

[canno]

Just here to say that Hidden Power Normal is the best Hidden Power of all time.

And Rain Dance Lombre seems like an awful check for the Smashers, as almost all of them have Swift Swim or another ability that activates in the rain, not to mention the boost in their Water STABs.

 

[Hot N Cold]

The users of toxic spikes and spikes are terrible.

 

[erisia]

Electrode will probably go up in usage. It outspeeds Modest + 2 Gorebyss and can OHKO with Thunderbolt, or throw up a Light Screen if it predicts a switch.

 

[jake]

The users of toxic spikes and spikes are terrible.

I gotta agree, though that's not to say they can't work if you really need them too. There are four fully-evolved users of Spikes remaining (Cacturne Glalie Maractus Garbodor) and I feel that none of the pre-evolutions are worth it save perhaps Whirlipede. That leaves us with five decent Spikes users; four, if you account for the fact that Maractus is essentially an inferior Cacturne. I have been meaning to try it with Sunny Day, though, as it becomes the fastest Spiker and can at least throw up Sunny Day and some Spikes before it dies.

Electrode will probably go up in usage. It outspeeds Modest + 2 Gorebyss and can OHKO with Thunderbolt, or throw up a Light Screen if it predicts a switch.

Ehhhh, I'm borderline on this tbh. I'd much rather use a reliable Choice Scarf user like Rotom-S than Electrode, who only outspeeds Modest Gorebyss (note: a lot of them are Timid to outspeed Scarf Sawk). I also feel like Electrode has limited utility outside of revenging uncommon Gorebyss. It's really weak coming off of base 80 SpA, and gets outsped and OHKOd by +2 Timid Gorebyss anyway so it's not really worth it, imo.

 

[elchupo]

Sorry to dredge up the Linoone discussion again, but I just have this to add.

When I used one last gen I nicknamed it "Poliwrath" and used Drifblim to pass it a massive sub. 7/10 the sub didn't break before getting BD up, and even after drumming the opponent was none the wiser because Poliwrath himself is quite a notable belly drummer. From then it was essentially GG.

In my experience, that kind of misdirection is crucial when using Linoone since, as mentioned before, Linoone is quite possibly the biggest one trick pony in the history of Pokemon and everyone ones what's coming next when it switches in.

 

[marilli]

I mean, if I were to use Electrode this round, I'd use the Rain Dance setter with Taunt. Gorebyss is scary enough on its own, but used in a rain team it's ridiculously good.

Also, Gorebyss fits very well on U-turn teams because they lure out things like Regirock for you to boost. But most likely what happens is they let you Surf it for an easy OHKO because they're afraid you're gonna get the setup. After that, sweeping with Normal-types are really easy. Hell, I'm doing this with a Raticate and it should work even better with a Swellow.

and @elchupo, that's why you disable nickname ;) (and observant people still know)

 

[kniteowl]

Time to use Sunny Day+Taunt+Haze Murkrow to run a Sun Offense team. :)

Tangela is still one of the best eviolite walls in existence (only takes 66% max from swellow's guts-boosted BB), Victreebel, Exeggutor, and Shiftry are still strong, Snover is still gone, nothing else will really run priority rain dance besides opposing murkrow, etc.

I don't play much NU but couldn't Volbeat potentially run Priority Rain dance also?

 

[Steamroll]

yes volbeat can, but that really takes away from its ability to tail glow and baton pass, since it lacks the bulk to take an unboosted hit.

 

[Ice-eyes]

Why do people keep talking about Weather Murkrow...? It can't run Eviolite + Heat / Damp Rock, which makes it kind of bad.

 

[canno]

Why do people keep talking about Weather Murkrow...? It can't run Eviolite + Heat / Damp Rock, which makes it kind of bad.

This.

Weather Murkrow takes hits worse than a wet paper bag.

 

[ChaoticaMortis]

Yeah, even Volbeat has better defenses than Murkrow

 

[kniteowl]

yes volbeat can, but that really takes away from its ability to tail glow and baton pass, since it lacks the bulk to take an unboosted hit.

I don't know a set with

Rain dance / Sunny day ( depending on the team)
Tail Glow
Baton Pass
Encore / Substitute

With either a Damp/Heat Rock seems to be a reasonable set to me.

Sure it can't take a hit but neither can Murkrow (without an Evolite).

and if you can set up both the weather and pass off a tail glow, it's GG.

 

[kniteowl]

The only Gorebyss Check I can think from the top of my head would be T-wave Priority users and Both Murkrow and Volbeat can both use T-wave.

Gorebyss is not nearly as scary when it's paralyzed, but then you're screwed if ti carries a lum berry. Although it's generally obvious if it's using any of the other items (white herb, Life orb, Leftovers)

Or you could try out and Chinchou, not as bulky as his big brother but still retains close to or similar bulk and still has the similar movepool except he lose leftovers for evolite.

max HP and SpD Chinchou with Evolite & Calm Nature

= 354 * (232*1.5) = 123192

max HP and SpD lanturn with Calm Nature

454 * 276 = 125304

How about evolite slowpoke?

max HP and SpD Slowpoke ewith Evolite & Calm Nature

384 * (196*1.5) = 112896

max HP and SpD Slowking with Calm Nature

394 * 350 = 137900

LOL maybe not...Still pretty decent with regenerator and slack off, slowpoke is probably better off as a physical wall with it's higher defensive stat.

Any other NFE bulky water that could potentially be used to check Gorebyss?

Edit: I swear there was a post between this one and the one above me??? ah well Sorry for the double post.

 

[Molk]

how does everyone think trick room would do in NU? it seems like it would do well with titans such as duosion, ZWEILOUS, marowak, and even mesprit to function in trick room. its also notable that as long as zweilous hits its basically an insta KO button under trick room, a sashed duosion can also provide a last second check to gorebyss, being able to revenge kill it, we alo have bannete, one of the best trick room leads of all time, too bad we lost smeargle.., its my fault.

 

[Endorfins]

Trick Room would be very handy esecially with Speed demons like Shell Smash Gorebyss and Swellow. Its a shame that Pokemon like Druddigon and Smeargle had to leave. However, the problem with Trick Room, is that after it ends, Pokemon like Gorebyss and Swellow can just come in and start wrecking shit. Trick Room can be quite easy to stall out sometimes.

Zweilous
I hate this thing, the accuracy of all of its moves become Stone Miss levels and its coverage is just terrible. But its outrage does kill stuff, but in general Zweilous is very frustrating.
Ive noticed a HUGE spike in Jynxs popularity and tbh, im not suprised at all, every team seems to be running Gorebyss and Jynx is basically the only decent Counter. It can set up a Substitute on Gorebyss and hits really hard with Nasty Plot or Calm Mind boosts, I can imagine that Gorebyss will soon start running HP Fire or Rock just for Jynx.

 

[ChaoticaMortis]

I've been meaning to try out TR Duosion (I see you wrote that set Molk) as well as Rampardos... I'm definitely gonna see if it works. Looks nice enough, and as previously stated it screws over those HO teams until TR runs out.

 

[Style_Dota]

As gimmicky as this sounds, want to try Trick Room Iron Ball Mesprit with U-Turn. This essentially allows a free switch in to any TR mon you want

 

[tennisace]

How does that allow you a free switch? You become the fastest mon on the field under TR and fast U-turn out, leaving another Pokemon vulnerable. If you're going to do that gimmick, use Lagging Tail, with TR/Trick/U-turn/Psychic. This way, you'll go last regardless, tanking the hit and THEN giving the free switch. In addition, you can trick the Lagging Tail onto a fast sweeper so that when Trick Room runs out, its crippled.

 

[jake]

Ive noticed a HUGE spike in Jynxs popularity and tbh, im not suprised at all, every team seems to be running Gorebyss and Jynx is basically the only decent Counter. It can set up a Substitute on Gorebyss and hits really hard with Nasty Plot or Calm Mind boosts, I can imagine that Gorebyss will soon start running HP Fire or Rock just for Jynx.

+2 HP Grass has a shot to KO after SR, and since there's a lack of spinners it's pretty easy for the Gorebyss user to just HP Grass the incoming Jynx and wear it down with SR and such. I mean, yeah, it's a decent check and certainly one of the more reliable ones, but really only with a Scarf (it outspeeds +2 Gore) and then it's really limited in what it can do.

Been meaning to try Trick Room.

 

[Endorfins]

Another Pokemon that works great under Trick Room is Exeggutor, when Trick Room is on its last turn, use Sleep Powder so you can get another free Trick Room up, not to mention that Eggy is a total boss under TR, there is little that can safely switch into Eggys STAB moves. It seems Eggy has really passed under the radar in terms of NU threats

Edit: @Zeb The scarf variant of jynx is probably the most popular atm, it can outspeed and kill a shit tonne of threats including Gorebyss, Magmortar, swellow, Braviary etc