np: NU Stage 3 - Riders on the Storm

[Steamroll]

uhh yeah, Miltank is not a proper Charizard check even with maximum special investment. I run Modest Life Orb and I've easily blown past both Miltank and Grumpig after some previous damage. Charizard has a lot of power, but is really cut down by Solar Power Damage and just plain getting outsped by faster mons or priority. This shouldn't be taken as a "Charizard is easily handlable" argument though, because even after rocks damage I managed to kill two-three mons in the four turns zard had to live, which is well more than enough to dismantle the opponent's team.

 

[ChaoticaMortis]

So, what are you guys planning on using to summon your weather? I'm assuming the Pranksters are all going to be obvious choices, and I know that Electrode is a fairly good Rain Dancer, but what else do we have access to?

 

[Raseri]

Nature Power is definitely a good move on Sawsbuck, dodging sucker punch and hitting fire types is definitely a good thing. I'm interested in trying a rain dance team with al the sun teams running around, also with a lot of teams overpreparing for the new threats a lot of the old ones are able to dismantle teams.

For rain I'm thinking Ludicolo / Gorebyss / Volbeat / Something with SR / filler / filler.

 

[Endorfins]

Ampharos is a great Rain setter as its bulky and can abuse 100% accurate Thunder, Amoonguss and Drifblim can setup either and Drifblim can use Weather Ball too; with the loss of Mesprit, its time for people to start being more creative with their choice of supporting Pokes!

 

[ChaoticaMortis]

Yeah, in all honesty, I think losing Mesprit was the best thing that could happen to this tier. We have a real chance to show off the true diversity of NU now that Mesprit isn't here to fill all the supporting roles of our teams.
Here's to hoping that it isn't replaced by another random generic Psychic type (because God knows we have too many of those).

 

[Steamroll]

personally what I have been using to set up sun is Regirock just for his insane bulk. I've also been using Altaria to set up sun on the special side and abuse Dpulse+Fire Blast, which is perfect coverage in this meta. The biggest problem I have with this entire get up is other sun abusers, particularly chloromons, but this is only if Regirock dies a lonesome death and doesn't get a few twaves down.

The things I've found out about NU are pretty much down to this on an overhead:
-Weather is going to be primary
-Sun fears rain
-Rain fears Sun
-Cloud Nine mons all the way

 

[jake]

So... I've been going the dark horse route here and not using any weather at all. A bulkier variant of Ludicolo is fantastic against rain teams, tanking literally everything they throw at it save some weird stuff like Seismitoed's Sludge Wave and Rotom-S's Air Slash. Both of those are readily handled by Altaria, too, who makes a monstrous difference against Sun teams, even without SpD investment. Cloud Nine is a godsend. Both Absol and Gurdurr have been superb as well, although Absol primarily because it revenges every weather sweeper, and Gurdurr because it beats Absol who is on like every team. Gurdurr also holds my team together against Sawk, and it takes like 50% from a CC then can KO with Drain Punch + Mach Punch. Outside of that my team has been switching around between a lot of things, but I really like SD Sawsbuck outside of Sun. Actually I really just like Sawsbuck, lol. The thing can tear teams apart with its great coverage, and crushes both sun and rain teams alike once their weathers are down. I'm really only looking for a good hazard setter (SR I NEED YOU) but really it is possible to try to handle all weather variants and still have a decent team.

 

[Axa]

Cherrim is another option to set up Sunny Day, as it can deal decent damage with a Flower Gifted Seed Bomb/Nature Power, and can also support via Aromatherapy/Healing Wish.

Interestingly, I wonder if Vileplumes would consider running Chlorophyll over Effect Spore now- while it still won't be able to outspeed anything significant, getting the jump on things like Absol would be useful.

 

[KingQuag]

With Mesprit leaving NU I think that Sawk might actually peak out to number 1 usage considering that Mesprit was one of the biggest checks to it. Also I'm kinda thinking that we will be seeing a lot more Weezing because of this change given the fact that Weezing pretty much forces Sawk out.

As for the newcomers in NU. Weather will probably be more prominent. I have been playing around with weather recently and Volbeat and Illumise are great for setting up Sun/Rain due to priority with Prankster, so this makes it easy to get your weather up for a last 8 turns (given you are holding Damp/Heat Rock) in the even that they are about to die and don't have to worry about any other priority user preventing you from doing so. Sawsbuck, I personally think, doesn't quite match up to Victreebel in the sun as a Chlorophyll sweeper simply because Victreebel can be Mixed due to Growth and has Priority via Sucker Punch, and because of it's typing it can hit some opposing Grass types with a STAB Super-Effective Poison type move in the event that Sun isn't up to boost HP Fire. On the other hand Sawsbuck does get both Jump Kick and Nature Power (Earthquake) which can let it hit Bastiodon for 4x Damage where Victreebel gets stuck. I don't know, I'll have to play around with both of them before I form a final opinion. Charizard is kind of self-explanitory, BellyZard struck fear into 4th gen NU and for all we know we may begin to see that a little bit more this time around (minus the Salac Berry depending on if it ever gets released 5th gen). It's survivability on the other hand may be kind of low depending on wether or not it's Solar Power or not, because as amazing as the power of a Life Orb, Solar Power, Sun Boosted Fire Blast from a Charizard is, taking nearly 25% for that power isn't necessarily worth it in my opinion.

Ludicolo will be a fun one to slap on a Rain team in NU. Not only is it a fun pokemon in general, it is also a fun one to use. I have a few sets up my sleeve that could be fun to use. Mainly Special Tank w/Life Orb + Rain Dish. The big thing I am fearing though is people spamming SubSeed with it, I mean SubSeed Serperior is annoying enough to deal with, having Ludicolo down here will probably just add to that. That is my only dislike about Ludicolo in NU, more potential stall ¬_¬

 

[Axa]

Victreebel's main advantage over Sawk would be that it's resistant to Fighting, while Sawsbuck is weak to it. Victreebel might be weak to Psychic but it does have Sucker Punch, while Sawsbuck can't really cover all of its 6 weaknesses.

Would Rain Stall be any more viable this time round? Ludicolo is a big boon to it, and you also have Hydration abusers in Lapras, Swanna and I guess Dewgong, while on the Rain Dish side you have Ludicolo as well as Pelipper. You can also round it out with Dry Skin Jynx to ice Altaria and Rotom-S to fire off STAB Thunders and Air Slashes to tackle Water- and Grass- types.

 

[erisia]

If you guys are looking for a Rain-check, Gardevoir is pretty awesome. Outspeeds most Swift Swimmers even in weather and can OHKO a lot of them with Psychic / Energy Ball. Ludicolo requires some prior damage but it doesn't OHKO you back without a boost.

 

[Django]

Ah Ludicolo makes an excellent special tank, and can take on a lot of opposing Rain teams on its own. Sun looks harder to deal with on its own, but we shall see.

BAMBI is my favorite drop though, better version of Leafeon weee.

 

[Molk]

yeah sawsbuck is going to be fun even outside of sun, with two great abilities in chlorophyll and sap sipper, along with access to swords dance and its own variation of giga drain (and the ability to OHKO gurdurr with double edge like a beast at +2). sawsbuck will be a top threat in the NU tier for sure

charizard im actually concerned about, the specs set is pretty much the most powerful thing in the tier with sun up, and it outruns most of the unboosted metagame, scarf still hits hard and outruns a lot of the metagame as well, charizard can also run an effective 3 attacks + roost set OUTSIDE of sun. its sheer power makes it seem pretty overpowered to me :/.

ludicolo looks cool, havent tested it yet though :p

 

[kniteowl]

Besides the Prankster users, Serperior seems like a good option to set up sun with it's great natural speed and bulk.

Taunt, Synthesis, Aromatherapy and Glare are great support options.

It can also abuse Solar beam, or just use Giga drain to increase longevity.

The only problem is that it compounds your teams grass type weaknesses (ie grass is weak to fire, ice, flying etc)

 

[Raikaria]

Well, everyone's gonna be abuseing Charizard and Ludicolo...

Time to pull out Altaria again I guess, she laughs at Sun and Rain due to her Dragon typing and Cloud Nine [Barring Ice Beams, which aren't even that common in NU unless you want to specifically hit Altaria, or are Jynx/'Byss]. DD Altaria is still in the list of 'What you should never allow to set up in NU' because it's nigh impossible to revenge, take a hit from or outspeed after it's set up. Especially with Mespirit gone.

Might even run Yache Altaria to dampen down the sign that says 'Ice Beam me!'.

Also, I lost Mespirit. Damnit. I'm not good at making teams, and Sub CM Mespirit was a vital member on my previous one.

Also, Jynx laughs at rain too. Quagsire can too, with Water Absorb. Hell, MARACTUS can troll in weather, between Chlorophill and Water Absorb. [Not saying she's viable, but she can troll Rain teams at least with her pretty high Sp.Atk]

 

[Cinccino]

OMG, the best part of this round is Absol's Sucker Punch failings against Nature Power'd EQ.

I haven't tried Sun, but Sawsbuck is awesome on its own. Wish it can have all five SD, Horn Leech, Return, Megahorn, and Nature Power on a set. -_-

 

[erisia]

Once I've finished with my rain team, I'm going to see how good Ludicolo is as a bulky Water. Giga Drain for other Waters, Synthesis for recovery and resistance to Ground make it pretty cool in general, and it has pretty good Special Defense too.

 

[Django]

From previous experience I can say that Ludicolo makes an excellent bulky water. Just keep it out of the way of powerful neutral physical attacks and you should be fine. Does a great job of stopping rain and makes an acceptable Jynx check too.

 

[marilli]

I found that I was constantly disappointed by Ludicolo's performance as a pure 'bulky water.' From other tiers, I naturally expect Water-types to tank boosted Ice Beams and Fire Blasts like it's nothing, but Ludicolo's subtyping leaves it unable to. The extra Flying-type weakness makes it weak to Charizard, the most common Fire-type. I guess not having weakness to Grass and Electric should be cool, I guess, but those tend to be not very common. Other than hard-countering Water-types like Gorebyss and Ground-types like Golem, it can't really switch into a lot, considering Ludicolo's typing yields little resistances or weaknesses, but a boatload of neutralities. However, it acts as an ok bulky pivot, taking most hits once and hitting back hard.

 

[ChaoticaMortis]

Ok, I've been using Sawsbuck as a scarfer, and for real, it's actually pretty good. It's attack is just high enough to get it some OHKO's off of SE hits, and it out-speeds most of the tier.

Charizard has also been blasting things to hell, and I'm not even using a Sun team for either of these guys. If Stealth Rock is off the field, 'Zard can come in and do tons of damage with just a LO equipped. It's still surprising me how easy it is to get KO's with him.

 

[KingQuag]

I also forgot to mention that I love the title for this discussion topic. Probably my favorite songs by The Doors :3

 

[Raikaria]

Played a few games, with an edited version of my old team. Still weatherless, I came to NU to specifically get away from weather wars after all...

The only game I've lost so far is against a Ice-type team [Not even Hail] because my team currently has a rather large Ice weakness, opened my eyes to a few changes that need to be made.

Kangashkhan is still brutally scary, and getting at least one KO per game I play, as is Altaria, although it's not as easy to set up as it was before, if it gets a Dragon Dance in, the complete lack of viable steels in NU means something is going to have to eat one or two hits from 120 STAB from a +1 Altaria.

And that list is very, very small, if you're running Life Orb.

Also, now Mespirit's gone, who's a good replacement for a Sub CM role? I'm thinking Gardevoir but it's a bit slow compared to Mespirit, and lacks physical bulk...

Speaking of Kanga, I just realised she gets Drain Punch. Might try out a bulky Drain Punch + Work Up set. After all, 105/80/80 is bulky, and 95/90 is pretty decent in terms of offense... she gets perfect coverage with Drain Punch and Return, so she can run Sub in the final slot to block status... or maybe Sucker Punch for faster, frail foes.

 

[kniteowl]

^ Serperior Could Possibly replace your sub calm mind spot if your only looking for good physical bulk and speed. Otherwise you may have to fall back on the slower calm mind user that can recover like Musharna and Duosion.

Kangashkhan also gets Scrappy as an ability so she gets neutral Coverage from Drain Punch and Return alone.

 

[Django]

Grumpig can run a pretty decent Sub CM set, but its inferior in almost every way to Mesprit.

 

[Envoy.of.Water]

Besides the Prankster users, Serperior seems like a good option to set up sun with it's great natural speed and bulk.

Taunt, Synthesis, Aromatherapy and Glare are great support options.

It can also abuse Solar beam, or just use Giga drain to increase longevity.

The only problem is that it compounds your teams grass type weaknesses (ie grass is weak to fire, ice, flying etc)

Wait, Serperior doesn't get Synthesis or Aromatherapy. Meganium and Vileplume do, and neither of them get Taunt or Glare.