np: NU Stage 5 - Won't Get Fooled Again

[jake]

I don't foresee much use. It may be able to stop setup attempts with Spore and Clear Smog, but it has a pitiful 30 speed, outpaced by resident snail Conkeldurr.

Also, its defenses, even with a good 114 base HP, are vastly inferior to CeleTran cores, and its typing pits it against super-effective STAB from Latias, Latios, and Infernape.

foreseeing and estimating usage =/= usage

point is that it's being used quite a lot and is OU in the dream world meta; a similar treatment is expected to happen in this scenario. @ all: please don't post any more about the viability of amoonguss in OU / likelihood for it to leave the tier / any other gobbledygook about gastrodon and thundurus or w/e, this is a thread about the current NU metagame and i'd like to keep it that way. thanks

 

[TROP]

This is not the topic for discussing Amoongus performance in OU. But wasting this to get my post count up.

I don't foresee much use. It may be able to stop setup attempts with Spore and Clear Smog, but it has a pitiful 30 speed, outpaced by resident snail Conkeldurr.

Stopping most Keldeo, Breloom, Terrakion, Dragonite(Amoonguss in rain and assuming standard DD nite), and other dangerous threats doesn't guarantee enough Amoonguss usage for you?

Also, its defenses, even with a good 114 base HP, are vastly inferior to CeleTran cores, and its typing pits it against super-effective STAB from Latias, Latios, and Infernape.

A pokemon takes hit worse than a core? Stop the presses. And of those 3, only Latios can actually ohko Amoonguss no matter what.

Now, can we go back to NU discussion?.

Edit: Bs Zeb ninja.

 

[Machineae]

Is anyone actually using No Guard Golurk? Dynamic Punch & Stone Edge are nice but I think I like a CB'd three punch+EQ Golurk more with Iron Fist.

 

[watashi]

Is anyone actually using No Guard Golurk? Dynamic Punch & Stone Edge are nice but I think I like a CB'd three punch+EQ Golurk more with Iron Fist.

DynamicPunch isn't the best attack to spam on a Choice Band set due to its low PP and the numerous physical walls in the tier that are immune or resistant to Fighting, such as Musharna, Amoonguss, or Misdreavus. Speaking of Misdreavus, it will completely wall the set unless Golurk opts to use a weak Shadow Punch, which is now set-up bait for many bulkier sweepers in the tier. Although a decent option, Stone Edge is generally inferior to Ice Punch in terms of coverage.

Additionally, Choice Band Golurk can't really take advantage of the confusion provided by DynamicPunch since it's easily forced out. A Substitute set with Stone Edge, DynamicPunch, and Earthquake as attacking moves is certainly viable, but is extremely underwhelming and will not be able to break through physical walls without excessive luck from DynamicPunch.


Edit: Sorry for misunderstanding your post; I thought that you said you'd like a Choice Band set with Dynamic Punch better. Nevertheless, I think I explained most of No Guard Golurk's flaws in my post.

 

[gali]

If you're going to use no guard DynamicPunch, use Machoke. It's got a better typing, better bulk with Eviolite, and STAB.

 

[Incon]

If you're going to use no guard DynamicPunch, use Machoke. It's got a better typing, better bulk with Eviolite, and STAB.

While this may be true, machoke is hardly viable and is outclassed by other fighting types. To go along with that, while machoke has better typing, golurk has three useful immunities allowing it switch in with prediction. However the flaws of the no guard golurk were already pointed out by flcl. Neither of these mons can use no guard to its full potential.

To add to all that, fighting types arent too good in the meta right now imo. With so many amoonguss' and alomomola's running around, fighting types arent as effective. Sawk and emboar, two of the most common fighting types, are countered by the common core. Another check to the fighting duo is the commonly used musharna. She cant take a hit from either mon and threaten to ko back with psychic. Dont get me wrong, fighting can be pretty damn effective in certain circumstances, but not as much as they used to be before bw2.

 

[/B/utterfree]

Is anyone actually using No Guard Golurk? Dynamic Punch & Stone Edge are nice but I think I like a CB'd three punch+EQ Golurk more with Iron Fist.

I tried using No Guard. Golurk was much more problematic against foes while it was running Iron Fist. No, that doesn't make No Guard useless on Golurk; only something that's situational. It's much better at using No Guard than Machamp, since it has useful resistances and immunities which permit it to switch in and smack things with DynamicPunch alone.

Ground/Ghost is actually a pretty good typing, at worst a mixed bag when it comes to being revengekilled. However, both offensive STABs are effective in beating the living daylights out of the opposing team, which is what it's supposed to do. It's got good defensive stats and is immune to paralysis bar Stun Spore. Again, No Guard is good, but Iron Fist is much, much better. Especially since Golurk runs more punching moves in its sets now.

Also, I agree that Machoke is terrible and shouldn't be used.

 

[Yonko7]

Is anyone actually using No Guard Golurk? Dynamic Punch & Stone Edge are nice but I think I like a CB'd three punch+EQ Golurk more with Iron Fist.

I think Drain Punch is more useful, being able to gain health back is invaluable!

 

[Fun With Knives]

Add in the fact that every one of Golurk's base stats is higher than Machoke's, Golurk has better moves to go with No Guard (Machoke doesn't even have Stone Edge), a reduced restriction in held items, and the fact that Golurk can actually do something about its speed deficiency, and Golurk is usually going to be the better of the two, even in spite of a crippling five weaknesses.

 

[InterruptingDonphan]

You also have to remember Golurk's 3 immunities. It can easily switch in on Normal Fighting and Electric attack attacks, making it a nice check to many choice users such as Braviary and Emboar and even, on occasion, bulkier pokemon such as body slam Lickilicky.

 

[Raseri]

guys guys guys.

Specs Beheeyem. Analytic is out. It has Base 125 Special Attack. It is super slow. It has Thunderbolt, Signal Beam, Psychic and HP Ice. Seriously, only the bulkiest of walls can even switch into this thing, and even if you mispredict anything that comes in is getting smashed. Use it. Smash things. That is all.

 

[Ewil]

^ That sounds very good. I want to try him since the first round and now that he get Analytic i forgot about him lol. I'll give him a try for sure !

On another note, did someone founds any pokemon ban-worthy ? Personally the most broken thing that i see in the meta is gone with the tier shift (Magmortar) and now i really don't see anything that give me trouble. Even CB Golurk and Emboar, two real powerhouse are manageble or you can play around them. I wanna see if Gothitelle will be broken trapping a lot of pokes once 9th August comig. She's one of that mons that i really can predict her fate.

 

[ChaoticaMortis]

I'd say the biggest candidate for a ban right now would be Cinccino, but I'm not seeing it hardly as much as I thought I would. Am I missing something? Is there some crazy thing that's keeping Cinccino from being on everyone's team?

 

[Ewil]

I completely forget him !

Personally i don't like offensive team, so i play Cinccino very rarely, but i've faced many and i run every counter/check for him (obviosly not ONLY for him) like priority, steel type, scarfers, hazards and bulky physical mons like Alomomola and Amoongus, so Cinccino is not a big problem for me, but i see that he's a huge threat in general and something is gonna die when Cinccino switch in.

 

[Full2Half]

Yeah, I would say that if anyhing is broken, it's cinccino. It was good enough with technition, dispite being slightly luck reliant. But now that it doesn't have to rely on luck, it becomes one of the best revengers in the game, and it's very reaistic that it will sweep unprepared teams under the proper circumstances (which arnt diffacult to get to.)

Other potential nominees are amoonguss for that bulk, regenerator, and spore. He'll be leaving soon anyway, but I think it's worth consideration.

Also, there's obviously alomomola. Being able to burn/poison stall about everything is pretty goddamn annoying. Not to mention regenerator and being able to pass those huge wishes.

To be honest, there are probably more, but these are the three I usually find myself struggling against, even if I am running proper checks. None of these are unstoppable of course, but I feel that if something is going to be suspected, it should be one of these.

 

[CrashinBoomBang]

The way I see it, people have found countless ways around Cinccino, such as Rocky Helmet, Rock/Steel types (or really just Regirock), teams that are too offensive to grant it any switch-ins, etc. It is also really, really frail. I guess suspecting it is an option but I don't think it's broken at this point in time.

 

[Full2Half]

Yeah, it can easily be handled (CB gurdurr mach punch anyone?) but with the only things that can really switch into it being probo and bastiodon, it can be pretty difficult to stop for teams without one of these. However, it's frailty means it is fairly easily handled by priority, but is nonetheless a major threat that can ravage weakened or unprepared teams.

 

[/B/utterfree]

I'd agree to a ban on Cinccino. Although, it does face competition as a sweeper from the likes of Zangoose, so it's not as monopolizing in NU as it could be. However, if a Pokemon is broken, it doesn't matter - they need to be out of the tier regardless. And honestly, Cincc would be one of those Pokes that just needs to leave NU pronto.

 

[DTC]

Let's not talk about suspecting or banning yet. There will be a thread for that in a few days.

I'm sure we've all noticed the influx of priority in NU. Personally, I've been using about 2-3 priority users on almost every team. There are a ton of viable options from Mach Punch Gurdurr to Sucker Punch Absol to Aqua Jet Samurott. What are some of your favorite priority users?

 

[ChaoticaMortis]

Skuntank is a great user of priority, as it has a very hard-hitting Sucker Punch. What's cool about it is that it also has access to Taunt, which forces your opponent into letting Sucker Punch hit (they could try to switch out of course, but that's what predicting with Pursuit is for). Skuntank's STAB Sucker Punch is coming off of a good base 93 Atk stat, often being boosted by Life Orb, which allows it to OHKO many weaker Pokemon as well as things it is SE against. The only problem I ever have with Skuntank is going up against Pokemon with Nature Power, as they cancel out Sucker Punch and hit with a SE Earthquake. Still, Skuntank is a great Pokemon, and a great user of priority attacks.

EDIT: Speaking of Sucker Punch, Absol is just as good as it's always been. Nothing likes taking an Absol Sucker Punch, especially one that's being boosted by Swords Dance. In a metagame as offensive as our current one, Absol can really shine against players who throw strategy out in place of entire teams full of fast, frail attackers (which, sadly, includes quite a few players). Even though it's not very common right now, don't ever forget that Absol is down here. Absol is still a monster, and it will still dominate offensive teams that aren't prepared for it.

 

[CrashinBoomBang]

I personally love Zangoose for its insanely strong Quick Attack. Reducing Absols health by 50% with no drawbacks is too good to not use.

I also use Aqua Jet on a Special, Modest-natured Samurott. Priority is, in many ways, way too useful to not have around right now.

 

[Full2Half]

I enjoy using good ol' espeed linoone. Whether CB or bellynoone, the +2 STAB 80 BP priority is great to have for any circumstance. Especially with how reliable it is!

 

[Ewil]

I love Mach Punch Gurdurr. Once you Bulk Up one-two times (or 1 BU+status) and the resistor are gone (there are max 1-2 fight resist in every team i see) or slighty weakened he can decimate teams and gain energy with Drain Punch and even if the Mach Punch is not boosted there are a lot of top-tier mons that are weak to fight like Cinccino, Zangoose and Absol. Very unique and useful.

 

[Fun With Knives]

I'd say the biggest candidate for a ban right now would be Cinccino, but I'm not seeing it hardly as much as I thought I would. Am I missing something? Is there some crazy thing that's keeping Cinccino from being on everyone's team?

The fact that it's not just walled, but killed by Audino.

For anyone who hasn't noticed, I love Audino. It has all the bulk of Kangaskhan in base stats alone, has a better support movepool, a status move in Thunder Wave, and more reliable recovery. The only thing in the entire tier that can shut it down at no real risk is Golurk.

 

[ChaoticaMortis]

That makes perfect sense, as I've seen even less of Audino this round than I've seen Cinccino.

Speaking of Audino, however, what are some of your favorite defensive cores, NU? I know that anything with Regenerator is probably popular right now, but is that it? I know we have more defensive 'mons than Alomomoonguss and Audino, post some!

Don't bother mentioning Lickilicky though, as its currently begun being recognized as the strongest sweeper in the tier (ask Keiran). ;)