np: NU Stage 9 - Locked Out of Heaven

[jake]

song - thanks to Starships (and Scolipede rider FLCL)

Hiya, guys.

FOR ONCE, we lost absolutely nothing to RU, and we got drops in return - 3, in fact. Munchlax, Scolipede, and Primeape are joining our ranks - I know Scolipede in particular was really desired among some of our senior players, so that's awesome. We did miss out on a plethora of other potential drops, like Mesprit (I know that was a long shot but I still really wanted it!), Klinklang, Rhydon, and Mandibuzz.

In other news, we'll be having an additional Pokemon rejoining NU; Jynx is going to be released into this metagame and treated as a regular drop. Please do not post about Jynx's "broken-ness" in this thread; absolutely none of you have played with it in this metagame, so therefore anything you have to say about it is theorymon. I anticipate that we'll have a lot of discussion about this and we will likely be hosting suspect tests in some time, so please keep your discussion in this thread tame.

As usual, discuss whatever comes to mind here! How do you think the newcomers will perform, and how is everything else going to adapt? I can already think of multiple "ok" Pokemon that will only get better with these new shifts, so please post your thoughts on the metagame! Remember, any discussion about the stats in particular should go into the March stats thread, while this is primarily to discuss the roles of Pokemon and the metagame in general.

EDIT LOL WE DON'T HAVE A MARCH STATS THREAD YET

FLCL / RAZ GO POST IT

jynx edit: have fun everyone ^___^

 

[Shuckleking87]

When will the jynx phase be implemented?

 

[jake]

Now. Marty will update the tiers tonight, when he gets the chance to do so.

This is also not a late April Fool's.

 

[Punchshroom]

Worst nightmare realized: Scolipede in NU. I think I've already explained in extensive detail why Scolipede is an instant S-Rank threat. I can already see everyone running or preparing for this beast as we speak.

 

[Farobi]

Wait, so Jynx is going back? I've never used it before, and with the drops, I guess it's a bit safe to stay it can find its home back in NU again. :)

Scoliopede will really shape the metagame, it can run multitude of sets, has a strong STAB, Spikes, Toxic Spikes and a lot more.

Primeape is going to be good here, it's about time we get a fast decent U-turner here. It and Sawk can make a good core (if only mandibuzz dropped...).

Munchlax is going to wall a lot of special threats, if not all. It can come in and phase CM Musharna, and any other special set up sweeper for that matter.

Speaking of Musharna, it may decrease in usage because of all the drops threatening it (Primeape also threatens it with encore or punishment on CM sets) meaning Musharna will be less annoying :D

TL;DR : Scoliopede is strongth, Munchlax is decent-ish, Musharna and maybe other Psychic cores will drop in usage, maybe Weezing and Misdreavus will rise in usage, Primeape is going to find a good home here in NU.

 

[Sidfrid]

Wait, so Jynx is going back? I've never used it before, and with the drops, I guess it's a bit safe to stay it can find its home back in NU again. :)

I wasn't around in the Jynx metagame neither so i'm a bit hyped about this. Scolipede being forecasted long ago have already some sets waiting for him when he got to NU.

I really enjoy when NU is shaked like this, with the ladder death because of SPL, I hope to see some action again!

 

[ICB]

Hide

Wait, so Jynx is going back? I've never used it before, and with the drops, I guess it's a bit safe to stay it can find its home back in NU again. :)

Scoliopede will really shape the metagame, it can run multitude of sets, has a strong STAB, Spikes, Toxic Spikes and a lot more.

Primeape is going to be good here, it's about time we get a fast decent U-turner here. It and Sawk can make a good core (if only mandibuzz dropped...).

Munchlax is going to wall a lot of special threats, if not all. It can come in and phase CM Musharna, and any other special set up sweeper for that matter.

Speaking of Musharna, it may decrease in usage because of all the drops threatening it (Primeape also threatens it with encore or punishment on CM sets) meaning Musharna will be less annoying :D

TL;DR : Scoliopede is strongth, Munchlax is decent-ish, Musharna and maybe other Psychic cores will drop in usage, maybe Weezing and Misdreavus will rise in usage, Primeape is going to find a good home here in NU.

Im also thinking sawk will drop in usage considering scollipede kinda walls it's stab, which it loved to spam once musharna's were gone... Hmm this is an interesting drop, also Muchlax, dropping really is mindblowing, considering it's awesome special bulk.
Im thinking musharna is gonna drop in usage a bit, from the scolli dropping not enough to not be regarded as top tier NU, though. Considering Primeape also dropped, and musharna does a good job taking it on.
I think these are some quite interesting drops, we will see how the metagame shifts to accommodate them.

 

[skylight]

I started with Jynx (actually... a year ago tomorrow I started NU, iirc lmao), and I'm glad to see it back. :)

I think the metagame is going to be pretty fast, and make whole choice teams actually viable! Because when you've got access to fast mons like Jynx, Ape, and Scolipede, why not?? But yeah, I'm looking forward to actually playing in it and what it'll bring about for NU.

 

[elchupo]

Woah, didn't realise how long it's been since I posted.

I remember Jynx being quite the terror when she was last in NU, but I was also a Jynx abuser, so I'm excited to see it back.

Jynx and Scolipede also put a lot of pressure on Mushy to the point where I think we may be seeing the end of Musharna's reign as the most potent Pokemon in NU. The former can just sleep it and use it as set up bait, whereas the latter is going to be pretty much the only thing that comes close to OHKO'ing Mush, with the aid of STAB Megahorn.

Having said that, the amount of Choiced Sawk/Primeape that are going to be around is going to give Mushy twice as many chances to switch in and cause some damage.

I could see Sun teams being pretty anti-meta this metagame. For a start, sun;

1)Totally fucks up Jynx thanks to Dry Skin.
2)Lets Chlorophyll abusers outspeed Scolipede and KO with Sun boosted HP Fire/ other Fire move.
3)Lots of Sun abusers have a secondary type that resists fighting, such as the Poison/Grass types and Exeggutor, making switching in on Sawk/ Primeape all the more easy.
4)Said Poison/Grass types can absorb T-Spikes, removing one of Scolipede's main utilities.

So yeah, Sun teams.

 

[Punchshroom]

I retract most of what I said about Scolipede's supposed "overpowered-ness". Who would have thought that one of the greatest metagame-defining threats is both an amazing Riolu partner and the most common Riolu fodder? We welcome you Scolipede to usher in a new world of terror.

Also, you do realize that the prevelance of Pede itself severely nerfs Toxic Spikes, right (thus meaning it isn't one of Pede's good utilities)?

 

[Cherub Agent]

The Speed level of NU has just vastly increased, with the addition of two base 95 Speed Pokemon and of course Scolipede. Primeape has notable advantages over Sawk, i.e. U-Turn, Speed, sleep immunity and Punishment. This last one is a pretty nifty tool of you're considering BandApe, as it does a number on Musharna. I adored the Jynx meta and I hope that some of you have appreciated it during NUPL, but I honestly don't think that it can be broken in this meta, at all. Munchlax fully walls it unless it's LO with Nasty Plot and Psyshock, which falls to any Scarfmon. Primeape puts it in a checkmate position with U-Turn and is immune to Lovely Kiss, and Scolipede can also outspeed and OHKO.

All in all this meta looks to be a lot more fun than the last and I might decide to start laddering again~

 

[Infernis]

My, this should be interesting. Scolipede will lay down the hurt on Musharna, and a CB U-Turn from Primeape is going to make a mark as well. Perhaps switch out to Skuntank or, hell, Scolipede?

I can see Scolipede slowing down Sawk very slightly if it's already in, but most Sawk I've seen run Stone Edge anyway. CB Sawk will OHKO even the most defensive possible Scolipede, and CS Sawk can OHKO frailer variants after Spikes. Expert Belt Sawk will have an easier time than CS, obviously, and can KO some balanced-EV sets. There is no way in hell any Scolipede is going to be switching into a Sawk that isn't locked into another move, mark my words.

That said, maybe Expert Belt Sawk will see some additional usage.

 

[Bluwing]

Really cool that Jynx dropped down as well, as everybody knows Jynx are extremely weak to hazards and our good spinners are as well, this will make it a lot harder for her to setup and shes quite frail on the physical side of the spectrum. We all know that Lovely Kiss + Nasty Plot is a strong combo, especially with her amazing dual STABs, but we also got another drop, Munchlax which are spotting amazing synergy with Musharna and this core can really wall and phaze Jynx to hell and back, we also got Primeape which can revenge her and Scolipede which is going to be the main hazard star for HO teams, this meta is going to be crazy.

 

[Mylo Xyloto]

I'm really excited for this new meta. A meta I've never played, with Jynx and Scolipede. I've played a couple of games with Scolipede and its really good. I've been using CB Sawk + Scarf Ape + Spikes Scolipede. And really loving it. I still want to test out Jynx. Theorymoning now, but I don't think its broken not with Munchlax, Lickilicky, Skuntank, etc. In the tier. Powerful but not broken. Kinda agreeing with elchupo on Sun Teams it seems like a cool idea.

But yeah, I'm looking forward to actually playing in it and what it'll bring about for NU.

Sums up my thoughts

 

[Malekith]

Jynx and Scolipede are going to break the NU metagame.

Primeape is interesting, it can't be slept and have U-Turn so is better than Sawk and Munchlax is a good mon but I think he's gonna be one NU more.

 

[Punchshroom]

Goddamn, why are people even saying that one Fighting-type outclasses the other: Primeape is our first speedy Fighting-type able to launch Quick Close Combats and U-Turns while being a wicked revenge killer/momentum keeper with Scarf; Sawk is insanely powerful and CB Mold Breaker sets totally wreck shit and are difficult to wall. If anything, these two could be used as a duo where Primeape softens up counters with U-Turn or switches to a trapper so that Sawk can sweep unhindered.

 

[The Quasar]

Always interesting, when a tier is so "mixed" like the last up. Jynx and especially Scolipede could be focal point changes, sometimes extreme.

OT: Will be Ladder Points reset? I can use at least a dozen nicks to make a decent score ;)

 

[Farobi]

I feel like the ladders should reset because of the major changes, but its not up to me, so idk.

 

[jake]

The ladder will not reset. There's no real reason for it to.

edit: To clarify this; people who are at the top of the ladder now will either have to adjust their teams for the new metagame and continue laddering or let their accounts decay. It's not like the ladder is especially challenging to climb currently, and resetting it won't change a thing on that end - I took an alt to 2200 after around twenty battles (though I probably got a bit lucky with the fact that I got to play a bunch of people that were on the higher end of the ladder when I did so).

I'm going to start posting sets and thoughts on the metagame sometime soon.

 

[Ewil]

Whoa ! Lots of big changes and i love each one !

Primeape: Is a last resort Musharna counter with Punishment and U-Turn. He's fast and has a lot of good option.

Munchlax: Balanced, Spike stacking and stall can benefit a lot from his famous Rest/Talk set and can be a real good special wall, maybe even better then Lickylicky in some cases (specially as a phazer and with 2 more resistances).

Scolipede: Yeah, i've used him when he was avaible in early NU and he was awesome as a spike setter and frail&fast sweeper. At the times we didn't find the full potetials of Musharna, so Scolipede was a bit underrated to me. Now he can shine and can be even broken ! Countering Musharna, being so fast and set spikes so fast are all good points for Scolipede, let's see what he will do for us :3

Jynx: Finally we decide to drop her ! I personally believe that she could be okay even in Round 8 since it was pretty balance in a form that Jynx can makes her come back, but now the counters and checks are a lot more ! Primeape being immune to sleep and can outspeed her with a Scarf set and can seriously hurt her with a STAB Close Combat and a momentum catch in U-Turn. Scolipede being faster with a STAB Megahorn and Munchlax with a resistance to one of her STABs and a good special defense thanks to Eviolite pseudo-immunity to Sleep if you use the Rest/Talk set. So she can come back for a test :D

 

[Five Green]

This shift has been kind to NU, after being robbed in the last one. The icing on the cake would have been getting back Emboar and Amoonguss as well, but that's ok :S

 

[ryan]

Yeah, I am stoked about this tier change. Jynx, Scolipede, and Primeape are all Pokemon that I have toyed around with in RU but never really had a lot of luck. It's cool being able to use them in NU. Still teambuilding for the new meta, but I'll post more thoughts after some battling.

 

[FortressDoor]

NU has gotten even more interesting now! I don't see Munchlax being that useful, due to things like Primaepe and Sawk running around, but the rest of it will drasticly change the meta. I already gave my praise to Primeape, but Scholipede will be interesting. Garbador usage will plumment, but I can still see Rosealia being useful.
Jynx will also be something I am interested in using, but I don't know enough about Jynx to give any thoughts.

Going to make a VoltTurn team with a Primeape/Eelektross core, wish me luck!

(once PS comes back up, of course)

EDIT:

Another thing that was mentioned before is the chance of Weezing becoming useful again in NU. While things like Mushy do not like tier shifts, and Sawk does not like the fact there is now another viable fully evolved fighting type it has to compete with (unless you use both, as part of a double fighting core, which will probably be quite excellent, but still), Sawk usage might drop. Both of those Pokes, among others who did not like the tier shifts, were huge problems for Weezing. I also really look forward to trying out Weezing in this new NU

 

[SaberSeven]

Jolly Scarf Primeape's U-Turn deals 86.49-102.1% damage to 248 HP/8 Def Jynx (it's as bulky as one can make it without having it get thumped by Stealth Rocks. Has a 7.69% chance to OHKO without hazards and a 92.3% to OHKO with 1 layer of Spikes. Problem is, Primeape can't risk switching into it due to the fact that it carries Psychic. Same deal goes to Scolipede. Jynx gets outsped & destroyed by Megahorn, but Scolipede can't switch in because of either Lovely Kiss or Psychic (unless Scolipede is carrying a Focus Sash, but switching Scolipede in on Jynx to tank a Psychic is a no-no). Also Megahorn has a chance to miss, so Jynx can take advantage of that. Munchlax can tank whatever Jynx has to dish out at it with its massive special bulk & access to Sleep Talk, but Sawk and Primeape are things and will destroy it with Close Combats. Liepard can switch in on Psychic & set up a Substitute to block Lovely Kiss due to its access to Prankster (and it's faster anyways) and then T-Wave, Swagger, Foul Play, rinse & repeat (or Nasty Plot if someone runs that set). Skuntank is slower than Jynx, but can come in on Jynx after something goes to sleep and take an Ice Beam decently (248 SpAtk Jynx Ice Beam vs 0 HP/220 SpDef Skuntank: 45.24% - 53.6% (2-3HKO with Black Sludge)) and she's trapped from there Either Pursuit or Sucker Punch. Your choice. Jynx will be interesting to see in NU with the new tier shifts, but we'll see if she's broken or not in time. IMO, Jynx is a bit like Darkrai to the NU tier. Something most likely goes to sleep when it's on the field due to its solid base 95 speed and then it's easier to counter (preferably by a physical threat).

 

[tennisace]

Honestly for all the hype around Scolipede, I still haven't had a battle where either my or my opponent's Scolipede just kinda took over the battle. That's not to say it isn't an integral part of my current batch of teams though, since I've definitely had battles where grinding out a couple layers of spikes turned the battle in my favor. The fact remains that Scolipede is still 3hko'd by Close Combat from Sawk/sometimes Primeape, and it has trouble switching into much else. I might try a more defensive variant since I guess it doesn't need max speed, just enough to outspeed Jynx and maybe creep Liepard if you're feeling adventurous.

Jynx on the other hand is the same monster it always was, and there aren't many things that can absorb sleep and take an Ice Beam/Psyshock/Focus Blast to the face. Literally the only things holding Jynx back right now are Scolipede and that dangerous little "is that Primeape scarf??" game. Between the sleep and raw power, it's putting something out of commission.

PS: double Fighting-type cores with Sawk and Primeape are easily exploitable if both of them are choiced. There are just too many good Psychic-types right now, and switching is a fair bit harder with easy spikes just a bug away.