np: UU Stage 1 - Changes

[Schpoonman]

Between Klefki's incredible defensive typing (it has the most and best resists out of any type combination, bar none) and priority Thunder Wave, it is virtually a guaranteed stop to any set-up sweeper that isn't already super slow or immune to Thunder Wave, and parahax could even stop something slow like Trick Room Reuniclus. Got a Volcarona about to slap the shit out of your team? Thunder Wave it, then easily revenge it with another Pokemon. Calm Mind Mega Alakazam got you down? Stop it in a heartbeat. Mega Diancie actually was a sort of check, since it couldn't be paralyzed without Discharge or Body Slam thanks to Magic Bounce, but Diancie went as well.

Normally, when you see a threatening set-up sweeper on the other team, you take great pains to make sure it DOESN'T get a free turn to set up. Like Quiver Dance Volcarona or Dragon Dance Altaria, one turn was enough to completely upend a team. With Priority Thunder Wave, you had the luxury of not giving a shit because you had a 100% accurate move that instantly crippled them, and Lum Berry was not always a viable option.

And really, two people calling me out? I didn't demand they resign from the Council, I just very explicitly made my disagreement known. After the utter shit show that was the BW Weather Wars in OU, and after getting infracted for calling out the OU Council on letting Drought and Drizzle stay (way to not check broken shit with other broken shit, guys), I don't believe anyone gets a free pass to their opinion just because they have a prestigious seat. Thankfully, none of this matters, Klefki's gone and I hope it never comes back.

 

[KaiseraAeros]

Could you elaborate here? What is the situation in RU?

If my memory is right Its Mega Gallade rulling the tier with a Iron Duel Disk of Doom

Unless they already quickbanned it and Idk about it

 

[boltsandbombers]

If my memory is right Its Mega Gallade rulling the tier with a Iron Duel Disk of Doom

Unless they already quickbanned it and Idk about it

Galladite is banned from RU.

 

[Liquidos]

-snip-

Ahh, now I understand what is meant. Thank you very much for explaining :)

 

[IronBullet]

Yeah agree that Fighting types are going to have a ball now. Almost all of the suspects banned were either checks or counters to them, and coupled with the exit of Sableye they are really going to dominate. Mega Gallade and Mega Lopunny were good even with all the other broken stuff around, and the bans have now just made them even stronger. Lopunny especially, it gets perfect coverage with just two moves, is blindingly fast and strong, and has one of the best movepools in the game. Will be interesting to see how the metagame develops with these guys! Also expecting a resurgence in Hydreigon now with four Fairies gone.

Orbital regarding Bronzong, it still has plenty of merit to see usage. I used it quite extensively towards the end of XY and I can say it definitely has a niche, even after the bans. Really the importance of Levitate cannot be understated here, it is such a massive advantage over Jirachi and Mega Aggron. It allows it to hard counter some of the top threats in the tier such as Ziggy, Mega Aero, Kyurem, and Nidoqueen. It's also amazing as a bulky SR user, easily one of the best defensive pivots in the tier. It will probably fall in usage because it was one of the few who could check all of Altaria, Diancie, Raptor and Kiss, but I feel it definitely still has a place.

 

[dodmen]

Just for curiosity's sake, can someone explain this a little further? Because I'm not very experienced in battling and I can't really imagine what is meant :(

As someone who agrees whole-heartedly with the careless playing thing, here's what I take it to mean. In a lot of cases, players will just click T-wave on whatever's in front of them, without assessing the risk and reward of doing so, and thus leaving the situation entirely in the hands of RNG. A person with Klefki can easily make the "bad play" and click Twave on something like a Scarf Darmanitan, and 25% of the time they will get rewarded. It's one thing to T-Wave a Sharpedo, Scarf Shao, etc that's about to destroy the rest of your team, but clicking Thunder Wave when you really don't need to/shouldn't and coming out with no consequences for your bad decision a quarter of the time is pretty stupid.

RIP Staraptor.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Also for curiosity, can someone explain why Donphan is so high in usage? I honestly cannot find any redeeming qualities about it.

 

[boltsandbombers]

Also for curiosity, can someone explain why Donphan is so high in usage? I honestly cannot find any redeeming qualities about it.

I guess with sableye gone there really aren't many ghosts that can block its rapid spin, but besides that I dunno.

 

[Machi]

Considering the usage of MGallade and Lop I don't think they'll be sticking around for too long. That said has anyone else tried the other megas that haven't been gaining much attention? MBeedrill is still pretty good in the current meta and he's had very good reception, since he is quite easy to use just spam U-turn LOL and use Knock off if you see an Alo (chances are they are rocky helmet variants).

What about the other megas? Has anyone explored them much? I've rarely seen MSceptile so I'm curious if anyone has good feedback regarding MScept? MPidge also has good potential, it is another mindless addition to Volt-Turn teams, u-turn when bad and spam hurricane otherwise. I guess MSharp will be getting more usage down the line, once the fighters leave.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Considering the usage of MGallade and Lop I don't think they'll be sticking around for too long. That said has anyone else tried the other megas that haven't been gaining much attention? MBeedrill is still pretty good in the current meta and he's had very good reception, since he is quite easy to use just spam U-turn LOL and use Knock off if you see an Alo (chances are they are rocky helmet variants).

What about the other megas? Has anyone explored them much? I've rarely seen MSceptile so I'm curious if anyone has good feedback regarding MScept? MPidge also has good potential, it is another mindless addition to Volt-Turn teams, u-turn when bad and spam hurricane otherwise. I guess MSharp will be getting more usage down the line, once the fighters leave.

From what I hear from the lower tiers, Mega Glalie is a very good wallbreaker. Double-Edge/Earthquake/Freeze Dry/Explosion allows it to do hefty damage against defensive cores, since most run 252 Att / 252 SpA with a -Spe nature. However, the aforementioned quality abour mega glalie is also the reason why it's dead weight against any form of offense.

 

[UU ALL DAY]

the people that think your opinions are full of shit dont say that you're full of shit, js. there's a difference between being an asshat and expressing your opinion. you know who else expressed their opinions in a similar manner? the kkk

anyways, mega-gallade has really good special bulk, so it can kind of actually run a sub bu set with drain punch and coverage, especially since sabeley which walls both its stabs are gone.

i think lopunny is great, but i always find myself for the last slot, waiting ice punch, power up punch, or quick attack, and i can never choose the right one. o well

i just cant wait for mence to drop, would be a decent fighting check

 

[Uribe13]

I think there was a mistake. You sent klefki to OU instead of sending it to the depest corners of hell.
Besides of that i'm totally in agree with this lol

 

[xMarth]

So I've been playing with this Mega Loppuny set since ORAS began and it pulls a ridiculous amount of weight especially when it is unexpected. (which is all the time)

Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Frustration
- High Jump Kick
- Encore
- Substitute

I like to run Frustration because HJK often frustrates me. Anyway you basically spam sub to scout for a support move on defensive mons and then encore the other mon into the support move causing your opponent to switch out and then Loppuny gets two free attacks to wallbreak with. It can really punch holes earlygame, dismantle cores midgame, and clean lategame all in one set. Some supporting replays follow.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-189762088
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-189779865
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-189855411

 

[jamashawalker]

I'm shocked there's not alot of talk about M-Swampert Considering two of it's biggest counters are OU. (Rotom-W and Ferrothorn) Very difficult to revenge kill thanks to it's bulk and speed. Although we are reaching a new stage in the metagame where Lopunny and Gallade are taking the spotlight. I'm pretty sure Swampert can come out on top as being one of UUs most dangerous sweepers

 

[boltsandbombers]

I'm shocked there's not alot of talk about M-Swampert Considering two of it's biggest counters are OU. (Rotom-W and Ferrothorn) Very difficult to revenge kill thanks to it's bulk and speed. Although we are reaching a new stage in the metagame where Lopunny and Gallade are taking the spotlight. I'm pretty sure Swampert can come out on top as being one of UUs most dangerous sweepers

Ferrothorn isn't a counter, Swampert always runs Low Kick to hit it really hard. I feel that mega pert kinda struggles in UU as manual rain is the only option and tends to struggle in such a fast paced metagame. Haven't used it much myself, but I don't think it's a great playstyle.

 

[glock in my toyota]

the people that think your opinions are full of shit dont say that you're full of shit, js. there's a difference between being an asshat and expressing your opinion. you know who else expressed their opinions in a similar manner? the kkk

anyways, mega-gallade has really good special bulk, so it can kind of actually run a sub bu set with drain punch and coverage, especially since sabeley which walls both its stabs are gone.

i think lopunny is great, but i always find myself for the last slot, waiting ice punch, power up punch, or quick attack, and i can never choose the right one. o well

i just cant wait for mence to drop, would be a decent fighting check

honestly if you really want a move for the last slot run toxic, it can whittle its counters extremely easily over time, whereas attacking slots as the 4th are always extremely situational (ice punch, PuP), or just bad (quick attack). toxic and healing wish are both good as last spots atm.

 

[Meru]

Ferrothorn isn't a counter, Swampert always runs Low Kick to hit it really hard. I feel that mega pert kinda struggles in UU as manual rain is the only option and tends to struggle in such a fast paced metagame. Haven't used it much myself, but I don't think it's a great playstyle.

I think a lot of users are actually aware of just how devastating Mega Swampert is, as I actually got to top 10 using Klefki Rain with Mega Swampert (and even beat several council members using it) but I agree with user boltsandbombers in that needing manual rain is such a huge downside for it.

Don't get me wrong, I can assure you that you'll be seeing at least one tournament player putting it to good use during SPL. It completely crushes more offensive teams with its good STABs, which dent a lot common Pokemon and its excellent bulk in tandem with its many resistances and one weakness make it extremely hard to take out. However, losing Klefki was such a huge blow against manual rain as a playstyle because its resistances and support movepool boosted by Prankster were a big driving force for how top-tier it was in the previous metagame.

 

[glock in my toyota]

So I've been playing with this Mega Loppuny set since ORAS began and it pulls a ridiculous amount of weight especially when it is unexpected. (which is all the time)

Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Frustration
- High Jump Kick
- Encore
- Substitute

I like to run Frustration because HJK often frustrates me. Anyway you basically spam sub to scout for a support move on defensive mons and then encore the other mon into the support move causing your opponent to switch out and then Loppuny gets two free attacks to wallbreak with. It can really punch holes earlygame, dismantle cores midgame, and clean lategame all in one set. Some supporting replays follow.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-189762088
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-189779865
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-189855411

ok so i would like to vouch for this post. ive been using a team very similar to one of marths iterations, and lopunny is a fucking beast. encore allows for so much early game punching it isnt even fair and it can late game clean easily with its ridiculous speed stat. high jump kick hits way harder than i would expect, and it never ceases to amaze me with its power tbh. encore is just such a useful move and causes so many "free plays" that its almost impossible to not punch early game. substitute just makes things easier, as you can do this all while in no direct harm if youre behind it. honestly, after using it, i am blown away by this set fullheartedly, and this set alone is enough for me to say ban.

 

[Patrick1088]

Lopunnite - 5

I havent seen one lopunny since ORAS came out. Any reason for almost being banned?

 

[xMarth]

The reasoning before was probably mostly theorymon for that initial vote list because so few people were using Loppuny. Now with the more broken megas out of the way I've noticed a huge increase in usage.

 

[slated]

So I made a mawile team earlier today, and boy can I say I'm impressed. I didn't think I would like mawile so much, since it has 380 BST, rather disappointing HP even with intimidate + a respectable 85 defense, and not good attacking stats by any standards. It serves a very viable role in the metagame, though. It has an incredible typing, allowing it to check the likes of Hydreigon, Jirachi, Crobat and even Lopunny. It actually hits rather hard because it has access to a 90 base power STAB move and an 80 base power STAB move. And the only physical mons realistically that give the little guy trouble are the ones it can't hurt with its attacks (basically steels) and fire/ground types since those are its only two weaknesses. It's a super nice rock setter that seems pretty anti-meta right now given the top threats. It's definitely worth a chance on your team if you're having any sort of trouble with stuff like Crobat, Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Lopunny and Mienshao.

 

[G-Beast]

So I made a mawile team earlier today, and boy can I say I'm impressed. I didn't think I would like mawile so much, since it has 380 BST, rather disappointing HP even with intimidate + a respectable 85 defense, and not good attacking stats by any standards. It serves a very viable role in the metagame, though. It has an incredible typing, allowing it to check the likes of Hydreigon, Jirachi, Crobat and even Lopunny. It actually hits rather hard because it has access to a 90 base power STAB move and an 80 base power STAB move. And the only physical mons realistically that give the little guy trouble are the ones it can't hurt with its attacks (basically steels) and fire/ground types since those are its only two weaknesses. It's a super nice rock setter that seems pretty anti-meta right now given the top threats. It's definitely worth a chance on your team if you're having any sort of trouble with stuff like Crobat, Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Lopunny and Mienshao.

Mawile isn't living a Fire Blast from Hydreigon

 

[Thanks Brock Obama]

Mawile isn't living a Fire Blast from Hydreigon

That's why Mawile is a check and not a counter to Scarf Hydreigon, which is the only variant that I've seen running Fire Blast. As for LO Hydreigon, it can still do 43-51% to you with Dark Pulse, meaning it can still hurt you on the switch and overwhelm beat you over time.

Anyway I'm gonna vouch for LiberalLucario here, Mawile is a ton of fun to use as a SR setter. Personally I prefer using a RestTalk set with rocks and Play Rough to keep Mawile healthy as long as possible, switching STAB moves based on what the rest of the team is weak to, and I have to say that it does its job consistently.

 

[aim]

I actually find manual rain > drizzle simply because i don't have to waste a slot in politoed. Losing klefki definitely made rain take a hit. The immediate hazard setter/ prankster rain was amazing for pert who actually doesnt have a hard time at all running through teams. I'll probably play around with a protect variant more so than 4 atks as getting the speed boost on the next turn for free + scouting for scarf mienshao's hjk is worth it imo. My point is it is still a threat and there are definitely builds that we have not yet explored. Looking forward to expanding on it :]

 

[KaiseraAeros]

I actually find manual rain > drizzle simply because i don't have to waste a slot in politoed. Losing klefki definitely made rain take a hit. The immediate hazard setter/ prankster rain was amazing for pert who actually doesnt have a hard time at all running through teams. I'll probably play around with a protect variant more so than 4 atks as getting the speed boost on the next turn for free + scouting for scarf mienshao's hjk is worth it imo. My point is it is still a threat and there are definitely builds that we have not yet explored. Looking forward to expanding on it :]

also you lose the one of the few things that could take a hit from Mega Sceptile STABs on Rain :( welp I guess lord Tornadus will have to save us