I have always loved to run Dusl stab Entei with Sacred Fire and Flare Blitz. The power is insane. Sleep talk would give that set a big hit, and, if it became popular, would allow mins hat are normally 2HKOd by the flare blitz set (I forget which but there are sum) be able to wall Entei with some leftovers and active healing by bein 3HKOd by sacred fire. I know this isn't really relevant, but it's what I would miss out on if I used sleep talk entie
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
np: ORAS UU Stage 4 - Go with the Flow
- Thread starter Sam
- Start date
- Status
"Hoopa as a very good special attack (150) and a very good typing that gives it two weaknesses in Dark and Fairy"I already made a thread for this but was told to post it here, so that's just what I'm going to do.
Hello, I'm Nicobar. I joined this site very recently and I would like to start to contribute to it right away. One thing I noticed right away was that next month has the potential to create changes (for the better or the worse) for the UU metagame as a whole. Whether it's going to be things rising from RU or falling from OU and our pokemon falling to RU or rising to OU, I'm going to give you my personal opinion on what COULD possibly happen. How the community reacts to it will determine if I do another one in October
Zapdos Suspect
Personally the thing I'm most excited about potentially happening is Zapdos being suspected to UU. It has low enough usage that it has the chance to be suspected and will be balanced for the UU metagame as a whole. I am sure that most people will be pleased with this happening and it would be able to go in on Mega Sceptile, Heracross, Shaymin, Vaporeon, Jellicent, Empoleon, Honchkrow, Crobat, Alomomola and I'm sure some other things as well. It can also pack a punch with moves like Volt Switch, Thunderbolt, Heat Wave, Ancient Power, Signal Beam and HP Ice. It also has some supporting moves like Defog, Roost, Tailwind, Roar, Toxic, Thunder Wave and even Substitute. It can be utilized in many different ways including as an offensive special attacker, a defensive pivot, or even as utility, it is good at all of these.
Although Zapdos is a very good pokemon, it has its weaknesses as well. It gets walled by bulky pokemon like Florges, Goodra, Rotom-H, Blissey, Dragalge, and many others I won't include. Zapdos can also get overwhelmed by strong attackers with type advantages like Kyurem, Tyrantrum, Mamoswine, Mega Abomasnow and in some cases even Mega Aggron and Aerodactyl. Overall, I think it's a pokemon with some flaws and some things that make it good but overall I think it should get suspected or even fall straight to UU.
Hoopa To UU
It's pretty obvious now that Hoopa is going to fall to UU, but what role and impact is it going to have on the UU tier? Will it be able to fend for itself? Hoopa as a very good special attack (150) and a very good typing that gives it two weaknesses in Dark and Fairy. It has a very large movepool with attacking moves like Psyshock, Shadow Ball, Dark Pulse, Grass Knot, Signal Beam, Thunderbolt, Psychic, Knock Off, Zen Headbutt, Fire Punch, Energy Ball and Hyperspace Fury. I can imagine that Choice Scarf will be a popular set because of Hoopa's relatively low speed stat (70). It also gets some support moves like Light Screen and Reflect, Taunt, Destiny Bond, Toxic, Thunder Wave, Trick for a Choice Scarf set, Nasty Plot, Calm Mind, and Substitute. These benefit Hoopa's versatility by a large amount. Obviously because of it's large upsides it as some very large faults. Firstly, Hoopa has it's Achilles heel, its defenses. It has horrible defense (60) but very good special defense (130). The problem escalates when it has it's 4x weakness to Dark Type moves, which include Foul Play, Pursuit, Sucker Punch and most importantly, Knock Off, which is used by alot of pokemon. Pokemon that kill it include M-Absol, Toxicroak, Honckrow, the Hitmons, Dugtrio, M-Banette, and anything that is relatively fast with a dark move and/or Sucker Punch. Overall, I think Hoopa in battle will be a hit or miss pokemon in battle. It will either do a severe amount of damage to the opponent or die right away.
Other
There are some other things that could happen that are not as important but still have an effect.
Slowking Going Back To RU:
Low usage, better options in UU, isn't overpowered in RU
Tyrantrum Suspect To UU:
Kills alot of RU, is already very good in UU, would gain more usage in UU
Gothitelle Going To RU:
Is not used at all in UU, might actually get some usage in RU lol
This is what I've seen so far that would catch peoples interest. I would highly appreciate productive criticism and your recommendations of what could happen this September and maybe even October.
And remember...
Correction: Hoopa is only weak to Dark and GHOST.
Hoopa is free
Not yet, as there was an error in stats generation. Pretty likely though since nobody used it in OU.
Just to throw my hat into the discussion. I honestly don't see either doing much. While, yes, Smeargle is the most versitle 'mon due to the fact it learns everything but I don't see it doing more than a suicide lead and even then custap Forretress does the job better (imo). I think even the best UU players will struggle to use it as other options are better then the painter.
Venomoth might be able to do some work due to sleep powder and QD but rocks, slow speed and lackluster Sp Atk, pre QD, mean it will be outclassed by other sweepers. I'm not bothered by either pokemon dropping down.
XD
Venomoth might be able to do some work due to sleep powder and QD but rocks, slow speed and lackluster Sp Atk, pre QD, mean it will be outclassed by other sweepers. I'm not bothered by either pokemon dropping down.
XD
Haha I use to think the same way but they have been out for a month now and venomoth is pretty good. Smeargle is a little slow to make the splash I wanted it to. Both are fun options that you should try out on the ladder. We have new drop(s) comming soon. Stay tuned for a new thread.
Mine yells Shadow Sneak, but I use Doublade too much, so it might be skewed a little.
Then again, Doublade can get Pursuit......
Definitely! I keep seeing the krookodile and hoopa scenario in my head. If i have hoopa and i get a kill then krook comes in and Im dead. If I click psychic move and krook comes in, Im dead. If im not scarf and krook comes in on shadow ball, im dead.
I expect hoopa to be running grass knot or something similiar so its not a sure switch. Hoopa looks like some major mind games and even if you win, the die to a pursuit whether you switch or not.
Who said it could?
The only reliable viability I see in Hoopa is a tr cleaner set and even that can be shut down by something slower with a dark move.
Just the general assumption of how are you even going to get Krook in to pursuit Hoopa.
So despite the awful 4x weakness to Dark, I think Hoopa will be a huge threat. As YABO said with Sticky Web support, Hoopa becomes a horrifying wallbreaker with literally no counters. Even Mandi dies to +2 Modest LO Focus Blast after rocks. Hoopa's typing also gives us an excellent Reuniclus check, as it walls any variant without Shadow Ball.
Hoopa also has some tricks to avoid pursuit trapping. It can run an Offensive Trick Room set like Reuniclus to not only dismantle offense, but it can outspeed all Pursuit trapped and KO them except Pursuit Doublade, but why the fuck would you stay in on a Doublade? Also, I imagine Sub + NP will be used to alleviate Pursuit weakness and Stallbreaker more easily. So you can sub up on choice locked Fighting type, on a predicted switch, or passive mons like Chesnaught and dent whatever switches in with the appropriate move.
One more thing, What do you guys think Hoopa will run on SubNP sets? I'd run Shadow Ball and FB, since I can't think of a mon you don't hit neutrally and with Nasty Plot, you can break past Blissey without Psyshock
Hoopa also has some tricks to avoid pursuit trapping. It can run an Offensive Trick Room set like Reuniclus to not only dismantle offense, but it can outspeed all Pursuit trapped and KO them except Pursuit Doublade, but why the fuck would you stay in on a Doublade? Also, I imagine Sub + NP will be used to alleviate Pursuit weakness and Stallbreaker more easily. So you can sub up on choice locked Fighting type, on a predicted switch, or passive mons like Chesnaught and dent whatever switches in with the appropriate move.
One more thing, What do you guys think Hoopa will run on SubNP sets? I'd run Shadow Ball and FB, since I can't think of a mon you don't hit neutrally and with Nasty Plot, you can break past Blissey without Psyshock
This is why Hoopa needs Substitute (except for on Scarf or maybe OTR). Avoids Sucker Punch too, so that's good. SubNP or SubCM with Leftovers/Life Orb/Salac Berry will probably be its best UU set, like in OU. Sub + 3 Attacks seems good as well without the competition from Hoopa-U.
Balloon Pursuit Krookodile coming to the rescue :']
The thing about Hoopa is that because of its speed and lack of bulk is that its easily revenged, bopped or pursuit trapped. But how will stall deal with it? Mandibuzz and Umbreon don't live a +2 Focus Blast. It also finds ample opportunites to set up on stall teams as well. I could see Crobat working against it if it switches in on a Nasty Plot (running the risk of getting bopped by a psyshock) Bulky pursuit Mega-aero could also work as well. The rest of the other stall mons viable and are faster than hoopa can switch in and outspeed and beat it, but they run the risk getting bopped by a coverage move when they predict a set up. That is playing with fire, and when you play with fire, sometimes you get burnt.
Hoopa @ Life Orb
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
In terms of defensive answers something like spdef meloetta with shadow ball is the only one I can see. Since it was already an option for dealing with reuni and such via perish song (looking at you serp :]) I imagine it will just be more common now.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...pdate-august-2015.3545972/page-5#post-6413787
Hoopa moved from OU to UU
It's here.
Hoopa moved from OU to UU
It's here.
So has anybody else noticed a shift in the metagame towards bulkier mons? Maybe it's just me, but it looks like things are getting harder to take down.
Noticed that too a bit. The drop of Hoopa to UU might change it to a faster metagame as apparently it defeats anything that's slower than it.
Well if you think about it, it goes in waves. For a period of time, the tier gets offensive, than because it reaches the climax and most people are using offensive teams. Then the tier will become more defensive and when it all becomes defense/stall, it goes back to offense again.
So now that it's here, what Hoopa sets has everyone been running. I have been running this set.
Hoopa @ Leftovers
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast/ Psyshock/ Hyperspace Hole
Used as a set-up sweeper, it can be deadly, as well as it gets a very large number of set-up opportunities as it can force a huge number of bulky mons out, and even if you get a sub up, you can still punch holes in a huge number of teams due to its huge 399 special attack, meaning that it generally gets at least 1 kill per match.
Hoopa @ Leftovers
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast/ Psyshock/ Hyperspace Hole
Used as a set-up sweeper, it can be deadly, as well as it gets a very large number of set-up opportunities as it can force a huge number of bulky mons out, and even if you get a sub up, you can still punch holes in a huge number of teams due to its huge 399 special attack, meaning that it generally gets at least 1 kill per match.
- Status