First off, just because something "seems wrong" does not mean it is. If we can keep as many possible styles of play available and take away as many broken or all around unenjoyable styles (talking things like Wobb trapping) at the same time, that is good. Banning morethan is needed simply leads to a barren metagame, and that is no fun to play. Secondly, it is rarely the case that one move makes something overpowered. I would like to cite Ononokusu, who despite not exactly fitting this question, is in a similar situation. Despite having a possibly "broken" 147 attack stat, his meh defenses, lack of a second STAB, and alright movepool make it perfectly within the limits of the OU metagame. This is very similar to the "OMG Rampardos is so strong. BROKEN!" and Porygon-Z hype that early DPP was so famous for. It is usually the combination of a good ability, good resistances (not always), good movepool, and good stats that make a pokemon great (ie Scizor and Heatran, the kings of DPP). Thusly, I don't find the banning of broken abilities to be a slippery slope to a banning frenzy. Only abilities that are grossly overpowered or flat-out entirely luck-based will have a chance of being banned, and I believe that any player who enjoys this game can appreciate that.
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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 1 - ...wait, I'm not Jumpman16!
- Thread starter Philip7086
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I agree entirely with masterful. Bibarel and Octillery weren't monsters until Inconsistent came along. People were never saying Bibarel was broken. They were saying Inconsistent was broken. Likewise people don't say Politoed is broken, they say Drizzle is. I mean, Politoed is usable, but if something like Empoleon or Swampert got Drizzle too you can damn sure bet that people would opt to use them over Politoed. Banning an entire pokemon when the fault is clearly solely on the ability is unfair.
I really have no clue what you are trying to say here. If a precedent for banning broken abilities is set, so be it. I don't understand this irrational fear of precedent. If a good precedent is set, then that is good. That's really all there is to it. It is absurd to ban every inconsistent user, so there is no getting around it.
Lol.
Politoed + 3 Swift Swimmers is stupidly IMPOSSIBLE to wall. They WILL break through.
And? That doesn't mean it's not broken or incredibly hard to beat.
Rhys DeAnno
Slacking Off
From what I could see, most people with ratings in the near qualification range (1300+) were using Sand instead of Rain, and there were plenty of people just below that at 1200-1300 using Rain teams. If Rain is especially hard to beat, it isn't hard to beat enough that those Sand teams were unable to maintain their advantage in the face of a horde of Rain teams below them.
Of course, with no usages at all (forget about rating sorted usages...), this observation is incidental, but I didn't get the feeling at all that Rain was the dominant strategy.
Of course, with no usages at all (forget about rating sorted usages...), this observation is incidental, but I didn't get the feeling at all that Rain was the dominant strategy.
It´s just because rain isn´t the dominant weather, from some month ago Tyranitar has been more used than Politoed (in both, DW and Wifi OU tiers of PO, and you can add Hippowdon and it gives you an idea of the usage of sandstorm), and perhaps it isn´t the best source but in the few warstories of rain vs. sand nearly everytime sand wins (and some warstories have demostrated the power of sandstorm even without Doryuuzu), rain can be a hard strategy to beat, but it isn´t the dominant weather...
Sand is one of few things that can sort of keep rain in check. If you're a good player with good prediction, you can attempt to sneak TTar in on a ludicolo ice beam or a setup move from kingdra or kabutops. If you're not so good, you need to wait for something to die and then bring TTar back in and then go heavy offensive to hopefully stop politoed from trying to get back in.
Of course it's going to come back in after something dies so then the process repeats and becomes I kill 1, you kill 1, I kill 1 and you kill 1.
Being extremely hard to beat is not rain's only problem. It's also very overcentralizing. When you're building your team, think about what viable non-gimmicky ways you can use to prevent a rain sweep. You either need to run TTar and play a sand team, run Aboma and play a hail team or pack your team with at least 2-3 pokemon that can handle ludicolo/kingdra/kabutops/whoever else gets used.
Of course it's going to come back in after something dies so then the process repeats and becomes I kill 1, you kill 1, I kill 1 and you kill 1.
Being extremely hard to beat is not rain's only problem. It's also very overcentralizing. When you're building your team, think about what viable non-gimmicky ways you can use to prevent a rain sweep. You either need to run TTar and play a sand team, run Aboma and play a hail team or pack your team with at least 2-3 pokemon that can handle ludicolo/kingdra/kabutops/whoever else gets used.
People need to realize that weather is a more substantial factor in a game, now. Banning Drizzle is only going to make Sand and Sun much stronger. Are we going to ban Garchomp and friends next? It's a shame that Drizzle probably won't make it past the next round because of Manaphy (who is broken with or without rain). Here's to hoping we can test one without the other! :D
Wait, didn't we ban Manaphy?
Even though I don't use Rain and my team has some problems with it, I don't think it's ban worthy. I don't think it has proven to be insurmountable so much as annoying, particularly when so many people aren't willing to work around it.
My point is more testing is needed. Sand was everywhere last Gen (still number one this Gen in fact) and could be beaten. I have a feeling Rain will turn out to be the same.
Even though I don't use Rain and my team has some problems with it, I don't think it's ban worthy. I don't think it has proven to be insurmountable so much as annoying, particularly when so many people aren't willing to work around it.
My point is more testing is needed. Sand was everywhere last Gen (still number one this Gen in fact) and could be beaten. I have a feeling Rain will turn out to be the same.
Rain might be called broken but the fact that sand is still number one weather suprise teh heck out of me.
Also. Ttar, a perfectly viable pokemon, a monster in its own right, a beast, a butch to take down, and a vicious attacker blah3x is a great way to use against rain or specifically Drizzletoed.
TBH a planned well Ttar switch in is a VERY big trouble to rain team especialy those who dont use that coughcough Broken toxicroakcoughcough especialy considering Ttar's massive special bulk and pursuit.
One more big reason to add toxicroak (no not that roob) in rain team.
Anyway with that being said :
Poli
Croak
4 sweeper
very interesting AND insane (most probably the best) Drizzle team core i could think off.
Also. Ttar, a perfectly viable pokemon, a monster in its own right, a beast, a butch to take down, and a vicious attacker blah3x is a great way to use against rain or specifically Drizzletoed.
TBH a planned well Ttar switch in is a VERY big trouble to rain team especialy those who dont use that coughcough Broken toxicroakcoughcough especialy considering Ttar's massive special bulk and pursuit.
One more big reason to add toxicroak (no not that roob) in rain team.
Anyway with that being said :
Poli
Croak
4 sweeper
very interesting AND insane (most probably the best) Drizzle team core i could think off.
It had a simple majority, which means it will be suspect automatically next round, as it takes two simple majorities to get the boot.
The difference is that sand was just hippo and TTar for the most part while Rain is full of sweepers.
That said, I don't think rain is broken without Manaphy and we should definitely test it without it first.
sand is everywhere last gen BUTTTTT BUT BUT BUT BUT....... its not more of a playstyle its more of a supporting essence where rain is more of a playstyle even this gen.
I find sand to be a supporting essence this gen too more than a "playstyle" since sand team this gen isnt going to much extreme as rain was. Sand team is more of a normal team but with 2 extremely powerful sweeper splashed in, too small to be considered a "playstyle".
BIGGEST argument i might give against decision IF sand will be banned.
btw i dont find any uber to OU crap again. Well great uber last gen is too overpowered for OU after all(especialy those owner of original drizzle and drought summoner).
I find sand to be a supporting essence this gen too more than a "playstyle" since sand team this gen isnt going to much extreme as rain was. Sand team is more of a normal team but with 2 extremely powerful sweeper splashed in, too small to be considered a "playstyle".
BIGGEST argument i might give against decision IF sand will be banned.
btw i dont find any uber to OU crap again. Well great uber last gen is too overpowered for OU after all(especialy those owner of original drizzle and drought summoner).
OU Suspect Testing Round 2 has begun!
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