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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by JabbaTheGriffin, Jun 15, 2011.

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  1. SlimMan

    SlimMan

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    "Um, Razza, what I meant is my team is weak to these OBVIOUSLY broken Pokemon, so we should ban them so that my team will do better and I can rise in the rankings."

    I'm not attacking your side of the argument. I hate Drought and Drizzle. But that's literally what you just said. At least try to disguise those sorts of reasons.

    Sand Stream + Sand Rush is not exactly the same as Drizzle + SwSw. People have been over this. The SwSwers ALSO got a 50% boost to their STAB moves, whereas Excadrill gets no STAB boost.
    It's one thing to say Excadrill is broken, but don't compare Sand Srush to Swift Swim.

    Furthermore, Excadrill is the only Sand Rush abuser who doesn't suck. With Swift Swim, we would've had to ban like 5 Pokemon most likely before we got to some un-broken ones, whereas Excadrill is just one Pokemon. I'm not justifying Aldaron's Proposal, I'm just saying that there is literally no reason to not just ban Excadrill.

    "I would have added Chlorophyll + Drought, but Sun doesn't beat my team half as easily."

    Again, I don't disagree with your point of view at all. I just disagree with the awful way that you presented it.
  2. Meru

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    Can we stop arguing that we're "losing playstyles" if we remove weather? Calling it "Rain Offense" is the same thing as calling a team "Blaziken Offense". Offense itself will still thrive. In fact, it'll be open to a lot more diversity since it wouldn't be pulled in five different directions due to weather effects
  3. WinstonShnozwick

    WinstonShnozwick

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    I personally believe that the grouping of weather into one vote for a ban is not the best way to go, because be there a majority of weather pro banners, if more want to only ban drizzle, then the vote would be passed. If they can be separated into 4, they can all be voted on still, and it would work out. I'm like 75% sure that with the group ban, no weather will be banned this round. And people that say other weathers will dominate after rain ban are only half correct. Drought is very powerful yes, but I've always found it quite easy to play against in comparison to drizzle and sand. Hail is lulz, if you think that will rise up and dominate then I want what you're smoking.
  4. Joel

    Joel

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    @ Rosey Oak: As far as your Cloud Nine Pokes comment goes. Yeah, Golduck sucks...However, both Altaria and Lickilicky are "decent" for OU.

    They are only comparabley decent in the way that Politoed and Ninetails are "decent". It's the ability itself that is good. All four mentioned Pokes are rather lackluster otherwise.

    In other words, As far as weather control goes, Altaria and Licky are on the same competitive level viability in OU as DrizzleToed and DroughtTails.

    So, you voting to directly neuter the only viability of two other Pokes because you can't get with the new metagame, right?

    5th gen is weather. Really, get with the program.
  5. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
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    Rain stall and Sand stall are definately going to thrive with rain dance and sandstorm. Excadrill is totally going to rape when sandstorm's 5 turns go like this: turn 1 sandstorm, turn 2: send someone to bait electric move, turn 3: send in excadrill, turn 4: set up SD, turn 5: attack, turn 6: oh... the sandstorm ended...

    I'm also fairly sure that without permaweather, rain dance teams would shred the metagame. Meaning that Aldaron's proposal becomes useless anyways, because the whole point of it was so Swift Swimmers don't destroy everything.

    Isn't being pulled in 5 different directions the definition of variety? 5 different things is surely more diverse than 1 thing. As well, what playstyles are we going to save with a banning of weather? Super Gyaravire Assault? Even hyper offense is useable. If you want to play HO, just use an Air Balloon Terrakion like everyone else. Or wait until Techniloom comes out.

    I also have no clue what the fuck you mean by calling something Rain Offense being similar to calling something Blaziken Offense. "Blaziken Offense" is one really fucking broken pokemon that can kill everything except like Slowbro or something. Rain Offense uses: Rotom-W, Scizor, Dragonite, Jirachi, Latios, Thundurus, Starmie, Gyarados, Latias, Toxicroak, Swampert, Tornadus, Zapdos, Cloyster, Jolteon, Azumarrill, Sharpedo, Raikou. If Drizzle were gone, a good chunk of pokemon will never see the light of day (Toxicroak being the best example), another chunk will lose some of their best sets (Jirachi being the best example).
  6. Rosey Oak

    Rosey Oak

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    I'm kind of speechless.

    *breathes*

    ...

    There is no written rule that 5th gen MUST centre around weather. The game is what we make it. Ever since the competitive nature of the Pokemon existed we have strived to create the most desirable Metagame. This means that whatever is deemed to be broken no matter what it is, is banished to Uber land. We do not excuse something by saying IT IS the game, because we already have taken what game freak has given us and used it to create a Metagame which we have chosen for ourselves.
  7. ZcX

    ZcX

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    I agree with NewWorld Order, if weather is banned many pokemons in the tier will lose their potential.
    And why just not bane the pokemons that are broken under weather?
  8. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    Nor is there a rule saying it must not be weather. Weather is currently the Ou metagame, a metagame that most players are fine with. Try adapting to it first.
  9. Berserker Lord

    Berserker Lord unreliable analysis writer.

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    Lets see. Drizzle would need awhole lot of bans before it is comsidered balanced. Sand has literally one Pokemon that is a problem. Sun has a couple that can be considered, but I don't see any reason to ban anything in it. Hail is Hail. Also, it doesn't matter how many Pokemon we lose in the process of a ban or how many playstyles are lost. All that matters is whether the ban will bring upon a more balanced metagame. Rosey Oak has said everything I wanted to say and more on that matter.

    Don't you think that people that want to ban a form of weather have tried to fucking adapt to it, but are sick at how it pretty muchy forces certain Pokemon to be on your team? It's aalso a good idea to stop twisting our arguements to make it look like we're saying things we've never said.
  10. KurashiDragon

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    Your forgetting about the rocks which has the weather moves last 8 turns not 5.

    Also Rain Dance teams weren't broken last gen so it stands to reason that it wouldn't be broken this gen especially with new threats like Ferrothron who would be the best check to Rain Dance teams.

    No account to stall teams because I do actually agree with you. Weather stall teams would suck bad without permaweather.

    Also XXD to the pokemon you said wouldn't see the light of day. Lez see how many of those pokemon are actually used in Rain that are ou because the rest BARELY see the light of day in an ou rain team as is.

    Rotom-W, Scizor, Dragonite, Jirachi, Latios, Thundurus, Starmie, Gyarados, Latias, Toxicroak, Swampert, and Tornadus

    Now lez see how many of those pokemon would be directly affected to the point of losing tier if Rain were gone

    Toxicroak, Swampert, and tornadus. In other words 3 pokemon really care about rain in the first place to the point where if it were gone they'd lose tier.... oh and Politoed who's the rain starter.... so 4 pokemon.......

    Also XXD to pokemon losing their best sets if rain were gone. Jirachi doesn't even have a rain set. It's best set is is specially defensive set which is more for latios then rain. SubCM would lose thunder.... oh but wait it still has thunderbolt. So tell me, besides gaining it's fire weakness again and losing Thunder how is any of Jirachi's sets (and by extension Jirachi) affected in anyway by losing Rain?
  11. Rosey Oak

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    Well it's a good job no one has ever said "5th Gen must not be weather" then.

    If the majority of players are fine with it, so be it, but I and others like myself who are 'unhappy' with the current Metagame will continue to voice our opinions on the matter. Whether or not you choose to listen to us, is up to you.
  12. Lady Salamence

    Lady Salamence is a three-dimensional retard.
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    So then, please explain, Rosey Oak and friends, to someone who doesnt understand, why are you complaining, when all that comes out of it is:

    • You get weather into the suspect test, and it doesnt get banned
    • You get a lot of people going 9.9 at you
    • pc++

    Just go get reqs and get it banned yourself?

    I'm sorry if you see this as offensive. I'm just wondering.
  13. Kefka Palazzo™

    Kefka Palazzo™

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    "Weather sux!!! BAN IT!!"
    "Ban teh weathur!!"
    "We want CLeer SKyees!!"
    "Weathur is stoopid, we should get rid of it!"

    Of course, this isn't how people actually say it, but yea, some people are, in a way, saying "5th Gen must NOT be weather".
  14. alphatron

    alphatron Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!

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    At the end of the day, the metagame we shape is a metagame that we enjoy, not necessarily a completely balanced or ideal one.

    Nobody said that hyper offense had to be a viable playstyle either.
  15. Lady Salamence

    Lady Salamence is a three-dimensional retard.
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    alphatron, the metagame will never be something everyone likes, we just have to admit it
  16. KurashiDragon

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    XXD the same thing can be said for people who wanted Garchomp banned and latios and Moody and well pretty much any suspect. People dont like something for some reason or another so they want it banned. IMO a ban is a preference. When something gets banned it's because the supermajority or majority of voters don't like that pokemon/ability so they want it gone.
  17. Berserker Lord

    Berserker Lord unreliable analysis writer.

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    Of course. Making a metagame that everyone likes is a literal impossibility. More spefically, we should aim for a metagame that the majority of people can enjoy.
  18. Lady Salamence

    Lady Salamence is a three-dimensional retard.
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    then please explain why ~70 percent of players want excadrill banned but it never is
  19. Rosey Oak

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    @Lady Salamance

    Well I'm not sure about everyone else, but as for myself, I simply enjoy playing Pokemon for fun and personally, I do not have the time to play it competitively.

    However in saying that, I do not have fun playing the Metagame in the currant state that it is in, which is why I feel the need to voice my opinion on the matter in this forum - it is a discussion form after all.
  20. NoUserName

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    Why? It can stall 32 turns(or being phazed before) and its support movepool is nice.

    The opponent has the same advantages too, you cannot use Fire moves or your Drizzle team, and non water resistants suffer from the opposite water-type moves. Thunder is rare outside Drizzle but may be used to 60% paralysis rate on Jirachi, and not to talk about your opponent Swift Swimmers due to being Drizzle too common.


    Gastrodon is not useless outside against Drizzle, it counters a lot of waters without HP Grass(for those which fear more Gyarados) and can recover off the damage and can try to burn with these annoying Scald.
  21. alphatron

    alphatron Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!

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    In a sense, that's how the current suspect process works. The majority of those who obtain voting requirements enjoy the weather based metagame, so weather is here to stay. Then again, there are those like shrang, who don't bother playing in a metagame they don't like very much anyway.
  22. Nanoswine

    Nanoswine

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    Smogon's goal is to make a competitive metagame, not a fun one. If you aren't having fun go play something else or try out the lower tiers, which have far less weather.
  23. Rosey Oak

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    Just because I don't ladder competitively at the moment, doesn't mean I don't strive for the same type of Metagame that you desire. Yes I would like to have fun, but I would also like a Metagame in which I think is balanced and 'fair' - and at the moment, I personally don't feel that it is.
  24. Berserker Lord

    Berserker Lord unreliable analysis writer.

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    Yeah, thats the exact problem. People who hate the metagame (me included) are not that motivated to play in the metagame because whats the point of playing a metagme if you aboslutley hate it?

    Generally, a fun metagame comes from a competative metagame, and a competative metagame comes from a fun metagame.
  25. Pwnemon

    Pwnemon judges silently
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    And before you say "you just one of them weather users" I realize that all metas are not ideal. In fact, I fucking hate OU. So I grew a pair and play RU, which i like a lot more. There's a reason we have what, eight metas.
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