np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)

[Virizion]

I know I only play the GBU metagame and things are slightly different, but I never have too much trouble with Thundurus. It usually needs to OHKO the opposition, and if it doesn't, it likely dies unless it's just getting walled/stalled. I don't run into Substituting sets often, but if you don't let it set up a Sub, there's not much to worry about.

Also, for a "counter", there's Lanturn. GK has a weak BP because of Lanturn's light weight, while nothing else Thundurus can use can deal too much to it (unless it gets lucky with Focus Blast).


Edit: Oh, about Drizzle: Maybe it's just GBU, but it's really not that threatening. Chansey/Blissey (I prefer my Snatch Bliss over my Minimize Chansey most of the time, so I can Snatch Kingdra's Subs and such) pretty much wall everything that can abuse rain (with the exception of mixed Thundurus/Tornadus and Toxicroak, and UU Pokés like Swift Swim Poliwrath).

 

[Xephyr]

Hopefully Drizzle actually gets banned this time <_<

 

[SJCrew]

I have no problem with anything other than Drizzle. I'll be looking to get rid of that this round.

Thank God. I thought you flew entirely off your rocker like some of the rest of these dudes, saying everything is just balanced and we should just leave everything at weather wars + a broken Pokemon or two. It's nice to know we have some common ground here at least.

Anyway, regarding a recent UU discussion about certain strategies not being used on the ground of being cheap and honorable...I'm starting to see the similarity with Garchomp last round. I used to use a Sub/SD set with Outrage instead of Dragon Claw, and it just the gayest thing in the history of Pokemon. A couple of test runs and that was it for me.

Landorus is more of a straightforward brute force kind of mon. You know what to expect when he comes out, and you know to send in that Skarmory or Brozong you have in reserve to check it. No "Ice Beam is now Stone Edge" bullshit. I'd at least be happy to know that if Landorus were any bit as influential as Garchomp, it'd be as a legitimate sweeper, not because it changes the game at the flip of a coin. Without Garchomp around, I actually feel a little better about laddering with Sand this round.

 

[alexwolf]

Whose to say Quag cant simply use Stockpile on turn 1, recover on turn 2 and continue on until nothing short of a powerful crit can beat it. Also, at +3 SpDef you'll find that Waterfall is more than suitable for killing off Thunderus.

This is true but quagsire needs to have the move stockpile first(which doesnt seem useful on him) and even with stockpile,a physically defensive varinat can get 2hkoed if focus blast deals near max damage twice(yes with a stockpile factored in for the second turn).
And anwyay stockpile doesnt seem such a good choice to me...you have only 2 moveslots to spare to actual attacks.one of them will be toxic and the other will be what?waterfall?eq?
whatever the choice will be, the number 2 most used poke in ou just spits all over you and 1hkoes you with power whip!i don't think that with ferrothorn arround quagsire has the time to stockpile...

 

[Charro]

You've been...Thunderstruck

Btw I have the same team since Round 3 and it's still working in the current metagame . _. (except for one with Mawile which doesn't count because it was just for trolling)

Time to prove LO Cm Latios uberness on a new team :0

This is true but quagsire needs to have the move stockpile first(which doesnt seem useful on him) and even with stockpile,a physically defensive varinat can get 2hkoed if focus blast deals near max damage twice(yes with a stockpile factored in for the second turn).
And anwyay stockpile doesnt seem such a good choice to me...you have only 2 moveslots to spare to actual attacks.one of them will be toxic and the other will be what?waterfall?eq?
whatever the number 2 most used poke in ou just spits all over you and 1hkoes you with power whip!i don't think that with ferrothorn arround quagsire has the time to stockpile...

Scald, Stockpile, Recover, Toxic, I have been using that set since like ever, and it never disappointed me

 

[Roosh]

Several things that need to be dealt with, in my eyes:

Latios
Weather Wars
Thundurus

 

[alexwolf]

Scald, Stockpile, Recover, Toxic, I have been using that set since like ever, and it never disappointed me

yes ok but with ferro around i wouldnt ever use this set.
also specs latios still rapes you easilly!
i prefer completely walling physical threats like excadrill and terakion with him instead of trying to make him a boosting staller...

 

[??????]

haha Thundrus. Jolteon is almost a perfect counter.

I run a Max Speed Life Orb Jolt with HP Ice/T-Bolt/Shadow Ball/Heal Bell. It's perfect dragon insurance and handles Thundrus and Gliscor switch ins extremely well. I am way to lazy to run damage calcs, but Thundrus usually dies after rocks damage. And Jolteon isn't some useless Pokemon either, Heal Bell throws a lot of people off.

Can't say the same for Latios...that f*cker needs to be banned now. Specs is too much.

 

[rickatick]

You guys do know that any scarfer can easily revenge thundurus.. hes not that threatening tbh, he's frail as hell, least of my worries is taking down one of these guys.

 

[Demoness]

You guys do know that any scarfer can easily revenge thundurus.. hes not that threatening tbh, he's frail as hell, least of my worries is taking down one of these guys.

I can easily apply that to Darkrai and Shaymin-S. Doesn't make them any less broken though.

 

[Katakiri]

2 nitpicks.

1. You name the suspect thread "sandstorm." Normally I wouldn't have a problem with this but due to the recent "bandwagon" been going around, I feel this is just going to create more bias and potential bans of mons/abilities that are unfairly judged.

2. Really?????????? 1400? WHAT THE FUCK SHIT I DON'T WANT MORE SCRUBS VOTING. We had 80~ voters with 1450 who the fuck thinks 1400 is a better fucking idea. If anything make the fucking requirement HIGHER.

Edit: what the fuck is the "brain trust" smoking cause I want some.

This. All of this.

Bring back the Smogon Council. When something's not working don't lower your standards, raise them. I'd much rather have 20 or 30 people that know exactly what they're doing and have proven it to us instead of 50% of voters using copy & paste teams to scoot on by.
Elect for not just ranks. Real. Soviet. Paragraphs.

 

[Tobes]

stuff

GBU is not PO. Please do not act like experience there has any relevance here, because it doesn't. The banlists are very different, and consequently so are the metagames. Please only bring up experience from PO, because that's all that matters in this discussion.

Anyway, back on topic. I was pretty ambivalent on Garchomp's ban, especially since I was there to watch the particular event (I think most of you who were there know which one I'm referring to) that probably shifted a lot of people's opinions of it to Uber.

I'm expecting a rise in Volcarona usage, particularly the LO set, since Landorus can't actually switch in on a Fire Blast safely. Espeon will probably jump a bit too to support it. Sand might decline a bit, but I don't think the loss of Garchomp will hit as hard as the loss of Excadrill would have. I didn't really see Thundurus as too much of a problem before, and although it's lost a check to it, I'd expect the rise in Scarf Landorus usage should help deal with it, but I'm not expecting Thundurus to survive this round to be honest.

 

[goofball]

Anyway, back on topic. I was pretty ambivalent on Garchomp's ban, especially since I was there to watch the particular event (I think most of you who were there know which one I'm referring to) that probably shifted a lot of people's opinions of it to Uber.

if ppl were swayed by watching rey stupid battle THEY DONT DESERVE TO VOTE.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

GBU is not PO. Please do not act like experience there has any relevance here, because it doesn't. The banlists are very different, and consequently so are the metagames. Please only bring up experience from PO, because that's all that matters in this discussion.

Their banlist is even more restrictive (except for Drizzle) and yet she says it's not broken there... It has nothing to do with the banlist lol, if anything, it's the battle format (3vs3).

Anyway, back on topic. I was pretty ambivalent on Garchomp's ban, especially since I was there to watch the particular event (I think most of you who were there know which one I'm referring to) that probably shifted a lot of people's opinions of it to Uber.

You mean when Garchomp evaded a move under Sandstorm? Yeah, I was there too.

 

[jas61292]

2. Really?????????? 1400? WHAT THE FUCK SHIT I DON'T WANT MORE SCRUBS VOTING. We had 80~ voters with 1450 who the fuck thinks 1400 is a better fucking idea.

Ooh, I do, I do. In fact I think lowering the voting requirements is the best thing for the metagame. If we are trying to create a metagame the is ideal for the smogon community, then the community should vote. its not like anyone can just get to 1400 without any effort. Sure, it might not be the most difficult thing ever, but if that's what it takes to get an accurate representation of the opinions of skilled battlers, then that is what we should do.

I personally don't want a metagame in which only an elite few have a say. Everyone battles under the same rules, so as long as you understand the metagame, you should be given a say.

Oh, and not directed at anyone particular, but if people could stop acting like disagreeing with you makes someone an idiot, that would be appreciated. There are many views, and just because someone doesn't agree with something that you think is obvious does not make them any less of a qualified user.

 

[TheFourthChaser]

Ooh, I do, I do. In fact I think lowering the voting requirements is the best thing for the metagame. If we are trying to create a metagame the is ideal for the smogon community, then the community should vote. its not like anyone can just get to 1400 without any effort. Sure, it might not be the most difficult thing ever, but if that's what it takes to get an accurate representation of the opinions of skilled battlers, then that is what we should do.

I personally don't want a metagame in which only an elite few have a say. Everyone battles under the same rules, so as long as you understand the metagame, you should be given a say.

Oh, and not directed at anyone particular, but if people could stop acting like disagreeing with you makes someone an idiot, that would be appreciated. There are many views, and just because someone doesn't agree with something that you think is obvious does not make them any less of a qualified user.

This is just gonna make the metagame worse than it already is, no thanks.

 

[goofball]

Ooh, I do, I do. In fact I think lowering the voting requirements is the best thing for the metagame. If we are trying to create a metagame the is ideal for the smogon community, then the community should vote. its not like anyone can just get to 1400 without any effort. Sure, it might not be the most difficult thing ever, but if that's what it takes to get an accurate representation of the opinions of skilled battlers, then that is what we should do.

I personally don't want a metagame in which only an elite few have a say. Everyone battles under the same rules, so as long as you understand the metagame, you should be given a say.

ubad? I sure as hell don't want random mcrandom doing my tiers !! btw anybody somewhat decent could get to 1400 with no effort -.-

Anyways, I'm somewhat delighted that the reqs were raised back up to 1450. Tho I do wish it was higher, I feel this is a step in the right direction

 

[Every1XplodeNOW]

Ooh, I do, I do. In fact I think lowering the voting requirements is the best thing for the metagame. If we are trying to create a metagame the is ideal for the smogon community, then the community should vote. its not like anyone can just get to 1400 without any effort. Sure, it might not be the most difficult thing ever, but if that's what it takes to get an accurate representation of the opinions of skilled battlers, then that is what we should do.

I personally don't want a metagame in which only an elite few have a say. Everyone battles under the same rules, so as long as you understand the metagame, you should be given a say.

Oh, and not directed at anyone particular, but if people could stop acting like disagreeing with you makes someone an idiot, that would be appreciated. There are many views, and just because someone doesn't agree with something that you think is obvious does not make them any less of a qualified user.

Well the way I look at it: I rather have a small amount of people that know what they're doing to vote than a lot of people that who possible have no ideal what they're doing. I know how you and other people feel about the community being part of it, but I think letting me people who met the requirements with little effort is a bad choice. And don't think I'm someone who makes voting every time, because I haven't even made it once or to me more precise, I haven't tried because I just don't have the time to battle that much(though don't get me wrong, I can make them if I want to lol) But I trust smogon and the voters, and I've supported their decisions almost every time. *cough*salamence*cough*

Even though I said that, I might try to make it this time because people are really pushing for the drizzle ban, and if that happens, it will be the most stupid thing smogon will have ever done.

 

[yond]

shit wont change

all that shit that countered chomp covers excadrill.

say hi to the same metagame without sand veil hax....

edit: also if anything 1450 was to low....70 man pool is excessive. top 30 is a better solution to make this a good metagame if anything.

1400 to low BS JABBA

 

[IcyMan28]

So I'm thinking that with all the Excadrill noms, people would have discovered its best set. But I get on the ladder and its still the same old Jolly + Balloon. Some weak ish, in other words.

Where is the Adamant LO? THAT I would be afraid of and that is definitely something that might be worthy of suspect consideration. Outside of Gliscor, Skarmory, and Bronzong, you cannot take it down without resorting to revenge killing. It is immune to the most common forms of status, cannot be outsped (except for lol balloon jolly variants of itself), and all but ignores SR. Play with that, then make your cases.

 

[Virizion]

GBU is not PO. Please do not act like experience there has any relevance here, because it doesn't. The banlists are very different, and consequently so are the metagames. Please only bring up experience from PO, because that's all that matters in this discussion.

Please do not act as if you know the GBU metagame (you clearly don't, when you say "the banlists are very different" although the only differences are:
Moody is allowed (quite rare)
Blaziken is allowed (uncommon still)
Garchomp is allowed (I don't see it often, anyways)

The main difference is the 3v3 format - in theory, sweepers should be even more threatening than usual since you only have 3 Pokémon to stop them - which means, since I still don't have much trouble with Thundurus, that you people clearly aren't being creative (as from what I hear, Thundurus' best counters are UU Pokés, which you PO-players are scared to death by even thinking about using them).

@ Icy
It'd make a difference if any of the unbanned Pokés were used often.. Chomp is the only slightly common one of them, and even then, it's like PO's September-through-May when it was allowed.

3v3, as I said, should make sweepers more threatening; yet Thundurus isn't much of a threat to my team.

Also: Quag/Gastro are, IMO, not-too-great checks for Thundurus because of the possible Grass Knot.

 

[IcyMan28]

Yeah, that still makes it irrelevant. 3v3, Chomp/Blaze and Moody still allowed?

No one is afraid of using UU pokes - look around and you'll see Mew, Gastrodon, Quagsire, and even the odd Staraptor. GBU =/= PO.

 

[alexwolf]

So I'm thinking that with all the Excadrill noms, people would have discovered its best set. But I get on the ladder and its still the same old Jolly + Balloon. Some weak ish, in other words.

Where is the Adamant LO? THAT I would be afraid of and that is definitely something that might be worthy of suspect consideration. Outside of Gliscor, Skarmory, and Bronzong, you cannot take it down without resorting to revenge killing. It is immune to the most common forms of status, cannot be outsped (except for lol balloon jolly variants of itself), and all but ignores SR. Play with that, then make your cases.

I totally agree with you!!!
To me it seems that everyone runs jolly balloon dory just because they are bored of giving the right support to him.Why running jolly and balloon just to have a 50-50 chance with opposing excadrills and get a few more setup oportunities?its not like excadrill cant find oportunities to setup.
he still forces every ground weak poke out,he still sets up on ferro he still sets up on blissey,on jirachi(with t-wave) and many many more pokes.if you are a good player you can anyway find a setup oportunity without ballon.
jolly excadrill is so weak that cant even 1hko jellicent or reuniclus(bold 252 def).also if you mispredict and your opponent hits you with an attack when u tru to switch in to a ground attack you just wasted an itemslot for nothing.
lo adamant exca flat out 1hkoes the standart rotom-w set with return.he also 1hkoes the standart hippowdon with eq.
Also +2 lo return does 56.8% - 66.9% to gliscor.so if you manage to weaken hima little bit you are golden.also it easily ohkoes virizion one of excadrills checks.
i still don't get it...

 

[Super Mario Bro]

So I'm thinking that with all the Excadrill noms, people would have discovered its best set. But I get on the ladder and its still the same old Jolly + Balloon. Some weak ish, in other words.

Where is the Adamant LO? THAT I would be afraid of and that is definitely something that might be worthy of suspect consideration. Outside of Gliscor, Skarmory, and Bronzong, you cannot take it down without resorting to revenge killing. It is immune to the most common forms of status, cannot be outsped (except for lol balloon jolly variants of itself), and all but ignores SR. Play with that, then make your cases.

There isn't really a "best Excadrill set", since its role totally depends on the needs of the team. Life Orb is good for teams that need a powerful revenge killer and wallbreaker, while Balloon is good if you need extra security against other Excadrill. I also like to use Balloon over Life Orb when I use rapid spin, because an immunity to spikes is very useful if I want to spin several times.

But ya, Jolly Balloon will always suck. Use Adamant, people.

 

[Thorns]

Please do not act as if you know the GBU metagame (you clearly don't, when you say "the banlists are very different" although the only differences are:
Moody is allowed (quite rare)
Blaziken is allowed (uncommon still)
Garchomp is allowed (I don't see it often, anyways)

please do not act as if anybody gives a shit about gbu

well now i have to find a new shell smash recipient to stomp the ladder with, thanks a lot guys -.-

i guess i'll try landorus, i may actually play seriously to develop an opinion on drizzle. with the removal of garchomp perhaps drizzle will become a more dominant force