Metagame np: PU Stage 4 - October All Over (Throh Remains Banned!)

Status
Not open for further replies.
A bit off topic, but I request an extended time for the PU suspect test on the grounds that the PU ladder is corrupted thus making the desired coil ratting much harder. Me a few other players can vouch on this if needed.

EDIT: seriously this is stupid:
 

Attachments

Last edited:
A bit off topic, but I request an extended time for the PU suspect test on the grounds that the PU ladder is corrupted thus making the desired coil ratting much harder. Me a few other players can vouch on this if needed.

EDIT: seriously this is stupid:
we are aware of the issue so yeah expect a small extension in depending on how long this problem will last
 

Anty

let's drop
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
because if it isn't broken, it shouldn't be banned. that's simply it. i'm fine with banning to make the meta better, but if you think that throh isn't broken but makes the meta worse, you might as well ban exeggutor, the simis, grumpig, or even ninetales. don't change your philosophy for only one pokemon.
You cannot say that the metagame is competitively-wise terrible, but yet think that making the metagame even worse isn't a reason to not unban something. We aspire to have the best tier possible, and even if throh is not 'broken', that doesn't mean it is healthy for the tier. Look at the tiering philosophy, 'broken' and 'unhealthy' are listed separately, and both are relevant when it comes to banning/unbanning mons. So Throh being 'undesirable for the metagame' is a perfectly fine reason not to unban it. The only Pokemon you compared it to that you should have is exeggutor, and if the metagame going offensive is 'almost solely because of exeggutor', then that probably is worth looking into, however that is a different issue and should not be mentioned now (for the record, I don't think any of the other mons were part of the reason why balance got worse). As for the last sentence, you are just jumping to a conclusion that is fitting to your point, without much to support it.
 
Hi so the ladder is working now apparently, you have until December 1st to get reqs
Unfortunately, I can't participate as my GXE is an incredibly low 34.9. I will say, however, that Throh would be a very... interesting addition to the tier. It can check Vigoroth and many other major threats, such as FUCKING PAWNIARD, and it's quite bulky as well. I could see it doing very well as a bulky attacker, and it could even work as a phaser on hazard-stacking teams. However, the lack of a priority move really hurts it, as base 45 Speed is downright terrible. Even Machoke has Bullet Punch to make up for this! It also loses to Pokemon like Exeggutor and Grumpig, both of which are very common in the current meta (especially Exeggutor). Overall, I think Throh would be a fairly good addition to the meta, and I'll be happy to add it to my team if it does get unbanned.
 
Last edited:
Yeah I really don't think Throh is a good addition to the tier at all. While it's less broken than before, it's still almost as stupid, which is saying a lot. The lack of mons that can actually switch into and beat it is still an issue, as is its extreme raw bulk. I'm becoming more convinced that it's a bad influence on the metagame as well, as defensive teams really struggle with it since they lack mons that can effectively defeat it bar a few things like pdef Hurricane Pelipper. Throh's huge bulk, Guts, and ridiculous survivability with Rest make it very difficult for most defensive teams to deal with, which is quite a big issue as it exacerbates the most commonly complained about issue about the metagame by far. The only positive impact on the metagame I can see it having is that it lowers the viability of DynamicPunch Machoke, but that's a trivial benefit at best. Overall, I don't really see why Throh should be unbanned as it doesn't really help many teams deal with threats any more easily while also being hard to deal with itself.
 

SparksBlade

is a Tournament Directoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a member of the Battle Simulator Staffis a Top Dedicated Tournament Host
Community Leader
i hadn't played pu when throh was around, and i haven't played the current meta much either, so i'd like to ask a few questions
And since Vigoroth has become an issue in this meta, I think having another Pokémon that can check it is a good idea. I hope Throh gets unbanned, even if it causes some problems. And even then, it's not as broken as it once was in the tier.
these are some points that i hear a lot(conveniently found in a single post), so my questions(doubts?) are:
  • was the throh retest intended to check if it's broken no more, or was it to have a decent check to vigoroth? if the latter, isn't it a case of keeping broken to check broken?
  • why do people want it unbanned if it's gonna cause problems? just cos it's an easy vigoroth check to slap on a team? doesn't that make vigoroth the issue then, and hence should be the mon in question?
  • this question is directly to Mega-Pokebattlerz: "And even then, it's not as broken as it once was in the tier." so it is broken, just tad bit less, but still broken, then why should it be unbanned? the question then obviously circles back to whether an "obviously broken" mon should be unbanned so as to have an incredible check to a "debatably broken" mon(in this case, throh and vigoroth respectively)
Like I said before, Throh loses to some common Pokémon in PU such as Grumpig and Exeggutor, and it also lacks a priority move to make up for its lackluster Speed.
neither pig or eggy like to switch into throh directly, and it's lack of priority doesn't mean much cos it can just take a hit from many faster mons and respond heavily, except ofc vs super effective stabs

that's all, and i look forward to getting more involved in the tier in future n_n
 
i hadn't played pu when throh was around, and i haven't played the current meta much either, so i'd like to ask a few questions
these are some points that i hear a lot(conveniently found in a single post), so my questions(doubts?) are:
  • was the throh retest intended to check if it's broken no more, or was it to have a decent check to vigoroth? if the latter, isn't it a case of keeping broken to check broken?
  • why do people want it unbanned if it's gonna cause problems? just cos it's an easy vigoroth check to slap on a team? doesn't that make vigoroth the issue then, and hence should be the mon in question?
  • this question is directly to Mega-Pokebattlerz: "And even then, it's not as broken as it once was in the tier." so it is broken, just tad bit less, but still broken, then why should it be unbanned? the question then obviously circles back to whether an "obviously broken" mon should be unbanned so as to have an incredible check to a "debatably broken" mon(in this case, throh and vigoroth respectively)
neither pig or eggy like to switch into throh directly, and it's lack of priority doesn't mean much cos it can just take a hit from many faster mons and respond heavily, except ofc vs super effective stabs

that's all, and i look forward to getting more involved in the tier in future n_n
I was drunk when I posted that lol. What I meant to say was: "Throh should be unbanned because it can check one of the tier's most common threats, but isn't broken like it was before." Even if Pig and Eggy dislike switching in to Throh's attacks, bringing them in with a slow U-Turn or Volt Switch can get them in safely so they can set up and sweep. Vigoroth isn't the only threat Throh deals with: Pawniard is quite common in the current meta, and Throh's STAB attacks can easily take it out. The same goes for Stoutland and Bouffalant.

UNBAN THROH
 
Since I will be taking part in the suspect vote, I want to express my opinion aswell. I don't like the argument, that throh should only be unbanned, if he is "healthy" to the meta. I assume that a healthy meta is a meta, in which every playstyle is equally viable. The current meta seems to prefer the offensive playstyle and its true, that throh will not change this. You will need more walls to help defensive teams, throh is a wall- and stallbreaker. It should have been obvious from the start, that a breaker will not help more defensive teams (if thats our mentality, then why should we even test it?). I also think, that not many pokemon have the potential to change an entire meta. The PU- meta will probably privilege offensive teams for a while longer (with or without throh) and in this offensive meta, I can't see how throh is unhealthy, it just brings more variety.
 
Since I will be taking part in the suspect vote, I want to express my opinion aswell. I don't like the argument, that throh should only be unbanned, if he is "healthy" to the meta. I assume that a healthy meta is a meta, in which every playstyle is equally viable. The current meta seems to prefer the offensive playstyle and its true, that throh will not change this. You will need more walls to help defensive teams, throh is a wall- and stallbreaker. It should have been obvious from the start, that a breaker will not help more defensive teams (if thats our mentality, then why should we even test it?). I also think, that not many pokemon have the potential to change an entire meta. The PU- meta will probably privilege offensive teams for a while longer (with or without throh) and in this offensive meta, I can't see how throh is unhealthy, it just brings more variety.
So what you're saying is that it doesn't matter if Throh makes the main problem with the meta worse? I don't see how this makes sense, the goal of a suspect test is to improve the meta, not worsen it. The reason it was thought that Throh might help defensive teams a bit is that it provides a blanket check to a lot of things, but it's clear (at least to me) that it hurts them a lot more than it helps them. The only way PU will become less offensive of a meta at this point is with drops/bans /unbans, and to me unbanning Throh moves us in the opposite direction from where we want to be.
 
Magnemite said:
So what you're saying is that it doesn't matter if Throh makes the main problem with the meta worse? I don't see how this makes sense, the goal of a suspect test is to improve the meta, not worsen it. The reason it was thought that Throh might help defensive teams a bit is that it provides a blanket check to a lot of things, but it's clear (at least to me) that it hurts them a lot more than it helps them. The only way PU will become less offensive of a meta at this point is with drops/bans /unbans, and to me unbanning Throh moves us in the opposite direction from where we want to be.
I see your point, the reason I debate the way I do, is probably because I dont consider an offensive meta a bad or unhealthy meta, but thats just my subjective opinion. The way I see it, is, since the meta is already that offensive, we might as well have an offensive meta with more choices, but thats again from an perception of someone, that likes such a meta. I think, the only way the meta can shift to a more defensive meta in a short time, is by banning certain threats. If thats, what the goal is, unbanning throh is indeed counterproductive :]
 

SparksBlade

is a Tournament Directoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a member of the Battle Simulator Staffis a Top Dedicated Tournament Host
Community Leader
Mega-Pokebattlerz said:
Even if Pig and Eggy dislike switching in to Throh's attacks, bringing them in with a slow U-Turn or Volt Switch can get them in safely so they can set up and sweep. Vigoroth isn't the only threat Throh deals with: Pawniard is quite common in the current meta, and Throh's STAB attacks can easily take it out. The same goes for Stoutland and Bouffalant.
But that calls into equation the players' choices: did one predict the other to send in Throh and U Turn/Volt Switch? What if the U Turn/Volt Switch was predicted? The fact that you can get Grumpig and Mr.Mime in via U Turn/Volt Switch isn't relevant cos that's about same as getting a free switch, hence labelling them as Throh's revenge killers? But the dearth atm is for a safe switch in, and as i mentioned earlier, Mr.Mime or Exeggutor or Grumpig can't safely switch in on a Throh. The number of mons Throh checks in return is also irrelevant cos the same analogy could be drawn for, say Hariyama, which is revenge killed by pretty much the same mons, and just like Throh, has not many safe switch ins. You say that Throh can easily take out Pawniard and Stoutland with its STAB, but that implies that currently these 2 mons pose a somewhat problem to players while building which is why you seek an easier solution, but this also puts the 2 mons in question. This again calls the "broken checks broken" case, which is not the proper approach.
 

Raiza

is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a defending SPL Championis a Past SPL Championis a Past WCoP Championis a Former Old Generation Tournament Circuit Champion
World Defender
I see your point, the reason I debate the way I do, is probably because I dont consider an offensive meta a bad or unhealthy meta, but thats just my subjective opinion. The way I see it, is, since the meta is already that offensive, we might as well have an offensive meta with more choices, but thats again from an perception of someone, that likes such a meta. I think, the only way the meta can shift to a more defensive meta in a short time, is by banning certain threats. If thats, what the goal is, unbanning throh is indeed counterproductive :]
I'm pretty sure most of the people here don't consider an offensive metagame bad, including me, but the problem is the metagame we have now is so overly offensive, at a point where other playstyles apart from balanced maybe are really hard to pull off, and I think we just took the wrong approach to fixing the issue. Also wanted to point out that Throh isn't going to provide us much more choice, as at best it is just going to replace Pokemon such as Machoke at times, which does kind of the same job anyway, so we're not missing on much alternative by keeping Throh banned. I don't want to say that we need to have a metagame where all playstyles are perfectly balanced and there's not a prominent one, but I think we should at least aim to not annihilate some of them such as stall, therefore unbanning Throh would be counterproductive as you said, because of multiple reasons already mentioned, such as being already a pain for defensive teams and not bringing anything positive on the table at all, apart from a decent check to like Vigoroth and others, but honestly we should just pick other routes if Vigoroth or other things are the issues.
 

DKFirelord

Back this time I swear!
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
I wasn't around when throh was allowed but after gaming reqs and getting some other opions and thought form users I can say yes through is just to unhealthy for the meta right now. Just as Mag said it doesn't really have a switch nothing in PU can switch into a Knock without getting its Evolite or I team knock off and it's massive bulk allows it to be hard to revenge kill or OHKO. Also I see no positives of adding Throh back its better in my opinion to just keep throh ban.
 

2xTheTap

YuGiOh main
is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
In order to make a fully informed decision on whether Throh is banworthy or not, I think the voters in this suspect should first examine two key factors as they enter this debate: firstly, is Throh considered to be broken in this current metagame? What sort of counter-play does the opponent have for Throh that would prevent it from being broken? And secondly, would the re-introduction of Throh be healthy for the tier, in that it helps balance each style of play (i.e. Offense, Balance, and Stall in a nutshell)? Along this same line of thought, what are Throh's effects on teambuilding - does it ease teambuilding on the whole and add something that the tier needs, or is it over-centralizing to the point that each team must contain a Pokemon geared toward beating Throh? I think that a lot of the arguments stated before this post have been somewhat incomplete on the whole, as they fail to consider both halves of this basic tiering philosophy; they either state that, 'no, Throh isn't broken, so unban it,' or 'yes, it's clearly threatening to defensive styles of play, so keep it banned.' So, to avoid these sorts of one-sided thought processes that tend to encourage bandwagoning, I'll touch on both questions in this post, as they are equally important when considering whether or not a Pokemon should be removed from a tier.

Firstly, it'd be unlikely for me to ever argue that Throh is broken in the context of PU, especially because it's being re-introduced into a fast-paced, predominantly offensive metagame that is rife with threats which have the capacity to OHKO Throh (or at the very least, revenge kill it from higher HP percentages). For example, the recent popularization of Pokemon like LO Murkrow, Colbur Grumpig, Specs Mime, LO Kadabra, CB Ninjask, and offensive Pelipper, or even older sets like Jumpluff, CB Dodrio, Arbok, Swanna, and Articuno mean that most offensive teams will have at least one check ready to revenge kill Throh. What's more is that its horrible Speed stat (uninvested base 45 - or 126 Speed total) leaves it liable to be revenge killed by a plethora of faster Pokemon, given most of PU is in a higher Speed tier.

Additionally, the presence of new drops have also hampered Throh's effectiveness for the most part. While it takes a lot of damage if Throh is healthy (i.e. above 74%), CB Bouffalant can OHKO Throh:
252+ Atk Choice Band Bouffalant Return vs. 192 HP / 32 Def Throh: 270-318 (62.9 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Bouffalant Head Charge vs. 192 HP / 32 Def Throh: 379-447 (88.3 - 104.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

Another more obvious example is Exeggutor. Colbur Harvest Exeggutor can switch into SleepTalk variants without fear and either force Throh out or do upwards of 80-90% with Psychic STAB while it eats up hits from Knock Off:
252+ Atk Throh Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Colbur Berry Exeggutor: 111-131 (31.8 - 37.5%) -- 89.3% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Exeggutor Psychic vs. 192 HP / 32 SpD Throh: 348-410 (81.1 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Exeggutor Psyshock vs. 192 HP / 32 Def Throh: 308-366 (71.7 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Gorebyss, if healthy, can also use Throh as setup fodder if you know Throh is carrying Storm Throw over Circle Throw, which is actually quite common on more offensive teams:
252+ Atk Throh Storm Throw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gorebyss on a critical hit: 130-154 (51.7 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Gorebyss Hydro Pump vs. 192 HP / 32 SpD Throh: 397-468 (92.5 - 109%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Gorebyss Hydro Pump vs. 192 HP / 32 SpD Throh: 516-608 (120.2 - 141.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Even Gothitelle's CM set is able to bypass Throh; with just 96 SpA and no CM boosts, Gothitelle is able to 2HKO Throh with Psychic with Leftovers factored in:
96 SpA Gothitelle Psychic vs. 192 HP / 32 SpD Throh: 228-270 (53.1 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

With all these factors considered, I would find a situation in which a newer player beats a more experienced one just because the newer player is using Throh to be extremely unlikely. In other words, Throh should not be considered broken because our meta has already made the necessary accommodations for Throh: it has enough checks to prevent it from being broken, it is easy to revenge kill with its horrible Speed, its RestTalk set is easy to outplay with moves like Encore and Taunt, and it has fairly reliable options for counterplay in Pokemon such as Colbur Harvest Exeggutor and Jumpluff, to name two examples from the list I gave above.

Now that I've touched on why I don't think Throh is broken, I'll talk about its effects on teambuilding and on the tier in general:

I'll argue that Throh actually eases teambuilding - in my experience, there have been defensively oriented teams that I've tried to build where I absolutely needed something for Knock Off absorption as I was using Eviolite-dependent options like Roselia. At the same time, I needed the resistances a Fighting-type would provide, along with the ability to phaze in order to take advantage of entry hazards. In the past, I would have used Poliwrath for such a role, but since its rise to NU, Machoke never quite had this same ability to act as a Knock Off absorber, phazer, bulky Fighting-type, and, without being dependent on Eviolite, to act as a blanket check to offensive Pokemon. So, while it can't be stated enough that Throh is a huge threat to defensive teams, its presence is actually helpful for building Stall itself because of its ability to beat huge threats to Stall, such as Vigoroth and Pawniard, while providing the utility I mentioned.

In addition to beating these stallbreakers handedly, Throh also acts as a balancing presence when viewed under the lens that fast and frail offensive Pokemon are dominant in PU. For example, Zebstrika is used quite often in this meta for its ability to check Floatzel fairly reliably, and its presence in the top of A+ in VR is proof of my statement that PU is a predominantly offensive metagame. However, the re-introduction of Throh provides PU with an answer to Pokemon similar to Zebstrika, in that they are unable to OHKO (or even 2HKO Throh, in Zebstrika's case), while Throh can survive a hit with ease and strike back with a Storm Throw that does up to 80%, or it forces Zebstrika to Volt Switch out as Throh finds an opportunity to use Rest.
252 SpA Life Orb Zebstrika Thunderbolt vs. 192 HP / 32 SpD Throh: 153-181 (35.6 - 42.1%) -- 88.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Zebstrika Volt Switch vs. 192 HP / 32 SpD Throh: 121-142 (28.2 - 33.1%) -- 87.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Floatzel finds itself in a similar position to Zebstrika. At best, its Specs boosted Hydro Pump is a 2HKO (not including its chances to miss), while Banded Waterfall is a 3HKO with Throh's Leftovers factored in:
252 Atk Choice Band Floatzel Waterfall vs. 192 HP / 32 Def Throh: 186-220 (43.3 - 51.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Floatzel Hydro Pump vs. 192 HP / 32 SpD Throh: 223-264 (51.9 - 61.5%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

These examples of Throh putting faster, offensive teams in tight spots via its high bulk are numerous. Most of the time, if Throh is healthy, it finds itself in a position to either force a switch on something frail like Raichu, Zebstrika, or Floatzel, or it is able to take a hit and OHKO in return after SR damage. In other words, what I see happening generally is that the mere existence of Throh is often enough to threaten offensively based teams if they do not possess a Pokemon that has something to check Throh (i.e. Psychic or Flying STAB, most of the time). This could be enough to slow down our overly offensive metagame to the point that slower wallbreakers could gain popularity again, lending viability to other, somewhat slower and bulkier teams on the whole. This, in conjunction with the fact that Throh is able to beat Stallbreakers like Vigoroth and Pawniard, says to me its presence could be balancing to the meta in the longterm.

With everything considered, I am currently leaning toward it staying because I do not think it's broken thanks to its low Speed, its ample number of checks, opportunities for counterplay when facing Throh, along with the idea that its overall effect on teambuilding is positive and that the meta has already adapted to threats like Machoke and Monferno, making Throh much more balanced than when it was here earlier this year.
 
Last edited:
For the last couple weeks, I've been reading the posts in this thread and taking in all of the opinions on both sides of this discussion. I've been reluctant to participate thus far as I have been trying to formulate the most informed and impartial viewpoint on Throh and where this meta is headed. Throh's presence in the meta heavily influences playstyle choices and the inclusion of specific "power mons" on every team to apply offensive pressure. I've found that it's better to handle Throh through offensive means rather than defensive ones as rest/talk sets are near impossible to break without strong psychic types like Exeggutor (I'll get to that in a moment) and volt-switchers like Rotom-F (as evident by its rise in viability). This being said, I've also concluded that Throh provides much needed bulk to a lot of teams to prevent potential sweeps from one turn setup mons like RP regice/Relicanth and SS Gorebyss. Its role as a status absorber/guts user also allows it to fill certain places on teams that are weak to stall, a playstyle that is almost non-existent nowadays in PU. Taking all of this into account, I don't think Throh is broken but I do think that it only further adds to a problem of making the meta extremely hyper offensive to the point where I feel like I am playing a mirror of my own team in every high ladder battle.

Referring back to my Exeggutor comment, I feel as though Eggy is the real problem with killing the stall and balance playstyles in PU. In my opinion, Exeggutor is the only reason why Throh would possibly stay in PU. For teams that don't choose to run it, you face a much more difficult time vs Throh as your other possible switch-ins do not appreciate SR damage and a knock off. So, I guess I just wanted to bring this to the attention of everyone voting in the suspect. Teams without Eggy face a very bulky, hard to kill threat, that has the ability to cripple switch-ins and come in on slow rockers and walls for healing. Without Exeggutor, teams are still pushed toward the Rotom-F volt switch pressure teams anyway because again, that's the easiest way to deal with these two threats right now.

So I guess I'd like to conclude with my opinion on the suspect. Throh shouldn't stay because it being allowed back is very dependent on Exeggutor and an extremely offensive playstyle.
 
Last edited:

Twix

jicama
is a Contributor Alumnus
Hi, my name is Twix, and I recently got requirements to vote for this suspect using a Throh based team. Throughout my experiences, I really have no reason to believe that Throh will be unhealthy to this current meta. It's a solid check to a lot of offensive threats including Pawniard, Bouffalant, Zebstrika, and Vigoroth, and is a really great option for teams. Even though it makes Machoke pretty terrible, the lasting effect of Throh has the potential to balance it out.

From my extensive 97 battle journey, I found no reason to believe that Throh was remotely unhealthy or broken in the metagame. There are plenty of checks to it, including Pelipper, Exeggutor, Kadabra, Mr. Mime, Swanna, Jumpluff, and Murkrow, and even though they can't all switch into it, can take it on relatively well. Throh isn't really centralizing either, as most of these Pokemon are really common.

Okay since I forgot to post this overnight, I'd just like to respond to what GeneralAnnoyance just said above me. Exeggutor isn't the only decent Throh check, when there are a bunch of Pokemon that can take it on (that I've listed before). Granted, as I also stated before, not all of them are solid switch into it (neither is non Colbur Eggy), but they are all strong enough to beat Throh given the right circumstances. Just because you have to bring checks to a certain Pokemon doesn't mean that it's unhealthy for the metagame (see Water Spam, Chatot).
 
Hi guys, so if you weren't aware, the PS ladders have been reset, which means that if you were midway through getting reqs, you'll have to either start over again, win the upcoming suspect tour, or (if you happen to have it) PM galbia and I with legitimate proof that you had at least 2700 COIL before the reset. You will then be required to show proof of other 5-10 battles with decent record depending on your score. There will not be an extension because of time concerns. We sincerely apologize if you worked hard for reqs but didn't quite get them in time, but this was outside of our control. Thank you for your understanding.

If your alt is displayed on this screenshot (or other recent screenshots in the alt id thread) to be over 2700 you can also get reqs by proving you own it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Alright, so instead of typing out a huge block of text, which is normally my way when it comes to almost any post, I thought I would try to make this a little interesting and post a discussion Optical Real and I had on this whole Throh debacle via Video, shedding some light onto his and my thoughts on the matter and, who knows, maybe we said something that hasn't been touched on as of yet. shameless promotion below Enjoy!!

 
Last edited:
A mon that has access to Circle Throw I don't think is unhealthy for the metagame. It can be used as an offensive powerhouse but also as a phazer for more defensive teams, that's what many want for the tier. Actually, I reached the reqs with a pseudo-stall team supported with Throh, Misdreavus and Pawniard.
 

MZ

And now for something completely different
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
A mon that has access to Circle Throw I don't think is unhealthy for the metagame. It can be used as an offensive powerhouse but also as a phazer for more defensive teams, that's what many want for the tier. Actually, I reached the reqs with a pseudo-stall team supported with Throh, Misdreavus and Pawniard.
Why does having circle throw make it not unhealthy? Not to mention storm throw is much more commonly run anyway. This doesn't address any of the main points regarding it or give any sort of reason why you're voting one way or the other. I'll post my thoughts in the next 3 days or so, I just wanted to get that out.
 
Another user said that Throh doesn't help making the tier move towards other playstyles (involving that because of this it is unhealthy for the tier), and I just came to say that it can perfectly fit stall teams. So, using this reasoning, I do not find it unhealthy. If it's unhealthy I think it should be because of it's capabilities and power, as it doesn't benefit offensive playstyles much better than defensive ones.

Personally, I think the tier has plenty of options against it. I find Exeggutor way more dangerous than the red judoka.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top