Metagame NP: RU Stage -1: Message to Oglemi, Nails, and Honko (VENOMOTH STOLEN FROM US))

[EonX]

I guess. Stone Edge has a pretty high chance to OHKO with Stealth Rock if Jolly and guaranteed OHKO with Adamant. Only problem with Adamant is that stuff like +Speed Torn and Raikou outpace you. I did forget about Raikou and I'd throw in Coballion as well I guess.

I don't see where Stone Edge comes into play when it comes to removing Tornadus's counters. If you're using Stone Edge, it's usually on something that can escapve Arena Trap via typing (Flying or Ghost) and everything that is countering Tornadus (think Registeel, Rhyperior, Raikou, etc.) is weak to EQ.

Aside from Tornadus though, I just finished up laddering with a team I made earlier tonight after the bans, and there's a lot of neat things on it. One I want to bring special attention to is Sharpedo:

Sharpedo @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Nature: Rash / Mild
- Hydro Pump
- Crunch
- Ice Beam
- Protect​

So, a common perception on Sharpedo is the fact it has a hard time handling Grass-types, in particular, Shaymin. This set fixes that by going mixed and using Ice Beam over Earthquake as a coverage move. With Ice Beam, Sharpedo gains the ability to wreck Grass-types that think they can actually beat Sharpedo. The fun doesn't end there. That Rhyperior who just came in thinking it can survive the Waterfall and KO you? Yeah, just got its shit wrekt by Hydro Pump. Crunch is still used as most targets of Sharpedo's Dark-type move can utilize Assault Vest (Slowking and Escavalier) or just naturally have higher Special Defense (Delphox, Lanturn, Jellicent, and Gallade) Now, while this set does fix issues with Grass-types and physically bulky Ground-types, it still has its own share of problems. Raikou now becomes very difficult to beat as you have to rely on the brute power of a 4 Atk Crunch to beat it before it pulverizes you with STAB Thunderbolt / Volt Switch. Grass-types that can utilize Assault Vest are still problems. This mainly means Tangrowth, but Shaymin can run it (though it shouldn't) Like with the traditional physical set, priority and Endure + Reversal Hitmonlee suck. A burn still isn't fun, but you at least aren't totally doomed should you have to eat one.

So, have any of you guys decided to use Sharpedo, and if so, do you think a mixed set could potentially be the best set it can use right now?

 

[NotBruceWayne]

I don't see where Stone Edge comes into play when it comes to removing Tornadus's counters. If you're using Stone Edge, it's usually on something that can escapve Arena Trap via typing (Flying or Ghost) and everything that is countering Tornadus (think Registeel, Rhyperior, Raikou, etc.) is weak to EQ.

Aside from Tornadus though, I just finished up laddering with a team I made earlier tonight after the bans, and there's a lot of neat things on it. One I want to bring special attention to is Sharpedo:

Sharpedo @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Nature: Rash / Mild
- Hydro Pump
- Crunch
- Ice Beam
- Protect​

So, a common perception on Sharpedo is the fact it has a hard time handling Grass-types, in particular, Shaymin. This set fixes that by going mixed and using Ice Beam over Earthquake as a coverage move. With Ice Beam, Sharpedo gains the ability to wreck Grass-types that think they can actually beat Sharpedo. The fun doesn't end there. That Rhyperior who just came in thinking it can survive the Waterfall and KO you? Yeah, just got its shit wrekt by Hydro Pump. Crunch is still used as most targets of Sharpedo's Dark-type move can utilize Assault Vest (Slowking and Escavalier) or just naturally have higher Special Defense (Delphox, Lanturn, Jellicent, and Gallade) Now, while this set does fix issues with Grass-types and physically bulky Ground-types, it still has its own share of problems. Raikou now becomes very difficult to beat as you have to rely on the brute power of a 4 Atk Crunch to beat it before it pulverizes you with STAB Thunderbolt / Volt Switch. Grass-types that can utilize Assault Vest are still problems. This mainly means Tangrowth, but Shaymin can run it (though it shouldn't) Like with the traditional physical set, priority and Endure + Reversal Hitmonlee suck. A burn still isn't fun, but you at least aren't totally doomed should you have to eat one.

So, have any of you guys decided to use Sharpedo, and if so, do you think a mixed set could potentially be the best set it can use right now?

Whoops sorry bout that. I though that Dugtrio was being used versus Tornadus.

Anyway, I never used a lot of Mixed Sharpedo. Don't really know how high Hitmonlee is on the usage statistics, but most people I've encountered run Fake Out + Normal Gem which isn't that much of a problem since you can Protect through Fake Out. Aromatisse also poses problems for the set as it can takes Sharpedo's best attack quite well (47% max) while OHKOing with Moonblast

Relevant Calcs

252+ SpA Life Orb Sharpedo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aromatisse: 161-191 (39.6 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 SpA Aromatisse Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Sharpedo: 414-488 (147.3 - 173.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Mudkip727]

So how far out from here is NU?

Anyway, I'll come back to talk about relevant stuff when I can get more games after workxd

Speaking of NU, if RU has the same amout of pokemon like UU or OU(50~80) and counting the pokes in uber NU has to work with 300+ pokemon!! Although it's very early to make a conclusion, I think when NU comes, we need a PU tier...

Tbh, none of those are surprising. Kyurem and Sableye were blatantly obvious while Azelf was probably the most controversial of the 3, yet still broken for the most part. Without focusing on them, who are the biggest beneficiaries of these bans imo? Let's take a look:

Druddigon: With Kyurem gone, Druddigon can go back to being the premier Dragon in the tier. It also loses a defensive counter in Sableye, so Druddigon's pretty happy right now. AV, Choice Band, SR, SpDef, Life Orb. Lots of options.

Delphox: No Azelf means Delphox is going to get a lot more common. Seemingly the "next best thing" when it comes to a hard hitting Psychic-type with solid coverage and a boosting move. Not as fast, as strong, or as good of a movepool as Azelf, but it can certainly cause serious problems.

Gallade: This may not be the first to spring to mind, but it just got granted a ton of freedom. It no longer has to worry about picking between AV to survive Kyurem or Sub to deal with Sableye. It can run both freely depending on what a team needs it to do, rather than having to pick one to help it avoid being crushed by something. Great versatility with Sub, SD, Bulky SD, SubBU, and AV. It also lost Azelf as a solid check, so no more need for Shadow Suck.

Shaymin: Losing two offensive checks never hurt anybody. Shaymin doesn't have to worry about Kyurem coming in on Seed Flare or Azelf coming in on a predicted coverage move. It can fill the void as a solid special attacker that both leave and it has recovery as well, just like Kyurem. To say this thing will become more annoying to face will be an understatement.

Escavalier: As Shaymin rises, so does Escavalier. One of the very few reliable switch-ins to Shaymin, Escavalier also lost a counter in Sableye and check in Azelf. AV sets are insanely hard to kill and CB just flat out mauls stuff. Don't be shocked if this thing becomes the next quick suspect.

Sliggoo: This is gonna sound odd as hell, but here me out on this. While it may sound like a joke, its special bulk is anything but a joke. With Kyurem gone, Grass-types got a ton more viable and Sliggoo can stop about every single one of them thanks to Sap Sipper. Sliggoo also benefits from not having Azelf around since it could carry Psyshock to get around Sliggoo. RestTalk isn't very reliable, but when you're avoiding 3HKOs from LO Moltres's Hurricanes for fuck's sake, you can burn sleep turns on a lot of shit.

I'm sure there's some others out there, but these are just some that quickly came to mind.

And about sliggoo, it's very underrated. I find that a core consisting of doublade & Sliggoo & wish-passing aroama-whatever is very effective. Doublade covers Sliggoo's fairy& Ice & dragon weaknesses and sliggoo covers Doublade's fire weakness both can take hits from both physical and special side.

 

[MAMP]

rip all my teams :(

 

[mallpal]

sub/bulk up tornadus seems to have gained popularity on the ladder.

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

Can Gourgeist (Most likely XS) work as a Sableye replacement? I'm merely only asking.

 

[Jaguar360]

I don't see where Stone Edge comes into play when it comes to removing Tornadus's counters. If you're using Stone Edge, it's usually on something that can escapve Arena Trap via typing (Flying or Ghost) and everything that is countering Tornadus (think Registeel, Rhyperior, Raikou, etc.) is weak to EQ.

Aside from Tornadus though, I just finished up laddering with a team I made earlier tonight after the bans, and there's a lot of neat things on it. One I want to bring special attention to is Sharpedo:

Sharpedo @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Nature: Rash / Mild
- Hydro Pump
- Crunch
- Ice Beam
- Protect​

So, a common perception on Sharpedo is the fact it has a hard time handling Grass-types, in particular, Shaymin. This set fixes that by going mixed and using Ice Beam over Earthquake as a coverage move. With Ice Beam, Sharpedo gains the ability to wreck Grass-types that think they can actually beat Sharpedo. The fun doesn't end there. That Rhyperior who just came in thinking it can survive the Waterfall and KO you? Yeah, just got its shit wrekt by Hydro Pump. Crunch is still used as most targets of Sharpedo's Dark-type move can utilize Assault Vest (Slowking and Escavalier) or just naturally have higher Special Defense (Delphox, Lanturn, Jellicent, and Gallade) Now, while this set does fix issues with Grass-types and physically bulky Ground-types, it still has its own share of problems. Raikou now becomes very difficult to beat as you have to rely on the brute power of a 4 Atk Crunch to beat it before it pulverizes you with STAB Thunderbolt / Volt Switch. Grass-types that can utilize Assault Vest are still problems. This mainly means Tangrowth, but Shaymin can run it (though it shouldn't) Like with the traditional physical set, priority and Endure + Reversal Hitmonlee suck. A burn still isn't fun, but you at least aren't totally doomed should you have to eat one.

So, have any of you guys decided to use Sharpedo, and if so, do you think a mixed set could potentially be the best set it can use right now?

Yep, I've used mixed Sharpedo in UU and it's great (it actually won me a round in a tournament). In RU with the Kyurem and Sableye bans it should be able to perform even better. :)

The next things to look at for potential bans will probably be Shaymin, Tornadus and maybe Escavalier, so be on the lookout of these guys.

EDIT: Cresselia will probably be banned/suspected before Esca

 

[aVocado]

Why would you use mixed Sharpedo though? If it's only for using Ice Beam for Shaymin, then it's pretty redundant, as Adamant LO Crunch already 2HKOs 4/0 Shaymin.

 

[Monte Cristo]

Why would you use mixed Sharpedo though? If it's only for using Ice Beam for Shaymin, then it's pretty redundant, as Adamant LO Crunch already 2HKOs 4/0 Shaymin.

hydro > waterfall
0+ SpA Life Orb Sharpedo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 164-192 (40.5 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mew: 161-191 (39.8 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

edit; yes I know mew is UU but this is just an example

 

[aVocado]

hydro > waterfall
0+ SpA Life Orb Sharpedo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 164-192 (40.5 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mew: 161-191 (39.8 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

edit; yes I know mew is UU but this is just an example

You forgot the Adamant nature for Waterfall.

 

[shadowyoshi64]

Can Gourgeist (Most likely XS) work as a Sableye replacement? I'm merely only asking.

I think Mega Banette would be a better replacement, since it also has Prankster Will-O-Wisp, Taunt, as well as Knock Off. It only lacks recovery, and Prankster doesn't activate until after the turn it Mega Evolves. I makes it up with a really high attack stat, and Prankster Destiny Bond.

 

[Jaguar360]

252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 175-208 (51.3 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
216+ SpA Life Orb Sharpedo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 200-238 (58.6 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Hydro Pump still hits harder with Sp. Atk investment (which it should have if going mixed).
216+ SpA Life Orb Sharpedo Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Shaymin: 221-260 (64.6 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers
252+ SpA Life Orb Sharpedo Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Shaymin: 226-268 (66 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Crunch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Shaymin: 175-208 (51.1 - 60.8%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Physical Sharpedo works fine enough for Shaymin, but Ice Beam does a better job.
There's also other stuff worth noting like this:
252+ SpA Life Orb Sharpedo Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tangrowth: 393-463 (97.2 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Sharpedo Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus: 273-322 (91 - 107.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
One thing that Physical Sharpedo does better is 2HKO Cresselia with Crunch and Aromatisse with Waterfall, so either set is viable.

 

[Monte Cristo]

You forgot the Adamant nature for Waterfall.

Doesn't matter, I also forgot any EVs on hydro pump, I put the most basic spread that could be on one set 252 atk/4 Satk/252 speed rash

 

[EonX]

Why would you use mixed Sharpedo though? If it's only for using Ice Beam for Shaymin, then it's pretty redundant, as Adamant LO Crunch already 2HKOs 4/0 Shaymin.

While Adamant LO Crunch does 2HKO Shaymin, you have to predict the switch-in to avoid being creamed by Seed Flare before getting the 2HKO. It can switch into Waterfall and EQ with ease, live the subsequent Crunch, and murder you with Seed Flare. Whereas, if you're using the mixed set, you can use either STAB move, and the damage Shaymin takes coming in will put it in OHKO range of Ice Beam quite easily. Obviously, the mixed set has its own share of issues, like having more problems with Creselia, Aromatisse, and Raikou. But being able to crush Shaymin, Tornadus, Tangrowth, and other random Grass-types is really cool. It generally depends on what you need from Sharpedo. Do you need it to fare better against the likes of Cresselia, Aromatisse, and Raikou? Or do you need it to be able to handle Grass-types on its own?

As someone brought up Hitmonlee, can I just say how much cooler this thing got with the Sableye ban? Endure + Reversal w/Liechi Berry is an insanely good late-game cleaner right now. The LO set got a good bit better too considering Sableye could just come in and burn it while detering the use of HJK so long as it was around. LO set is a pretty cool wallbreaker right now while Endure + Reversal is the best set to use if you want to utilize Unburden. Two very solid sets that have different playstyles and goals.

 

[KingQuags]

I think Mega Banette would be a better replacement, since it also has Prankster Will-O-Wisp, Taunt, as well as Knock Off. It only lacks recovery, and Prankster doesn't activate until after the turn it Mega Evolves. I makes it up with a really high attack stat, and Prankster Destiny Bond.

While you do have a point here with Mega Banette being big boy offensive Sableye, like you said, lack of recovery really sets it back. So Mega Banette is pretty much just a ticking time bomb waiting for when it's time to Destiny Bond. So working as a defensive Ghost type that burns things, Gourgeist-S takes the cake by a landslide.

--------------------------------
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Tyrantrum Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Banette: 348-410 (104.8 - 123.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Strong Jaw burned Tyrantrum Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Banette: 174-205 (52.4 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Strong Jaw Tyrantrum Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 172-204 (45.9 - 54.5%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Strong Jaw burned Tyrantrum Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 86-102 (22.9 - 27.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
--------------------------------

Tyrantrum is just my offensive subject for these calcs since I was running calcs with it anyways.

So to answer Koishi yes, I definitely think that Gourgeist-S will start to catch on now. Or I can at least hope anyways. Gourgeist is such an amazing pokemon with super crazy bulk that I think has been underrated this entire generation. I just want to see it get its fair share of usage.

 

[Holy Dom]

I was just building a team and got pissed because I had no way to counter Sableye and that Azelf can come in and easily revenge kill. Needless to say, I shed a tear looking at the past page. :') now I don't have to run Lum Berry on my Virizion.

Delphox will become the premier Psychic type, as well as Fire type in the tier now, which I find pretty cool. I'm surprised how good it is in this tier compared to UU.

But a problem I see in the tier right now is Froslass. Being able to Taunt, set up Spikes, and D-Bond, as well as having exceptional speed, it's hard to deal with. Especially when paired with Spinblockers and Defiant Tornadus.

 

[breh]

Does anybody have any clue as to how to counter Delphox? I can't think of anything in the tier that's able to take all of the possible attacks it can have (assume specs Fire Blast / Grass Knot / Psychic / Psyshock) short of Slowking (which takes a lot from Grass Knot with AV 252 HP and has a shot at getting 2HKOed with 252/252+ leftovers when rocks are up) and Zweilous (which I don't think should really be a problem).

It has a lot of checks (it's decently frail enough and weak to sucker punch; it's also slow enough that things like tornadus and the almighty purugly outspeed it) but it sure is scary.

 

[Davon]

I can see Braviary getting more usage now that Kyurem and Sableye are gone. It also counters Shaymin, taking advantage of seed flare spdef drops with defiant. Since kyurem is gone, I think Gligar is going to rise in usage, making the Sub BU Braviary set have an easier time setting up. On the other hand, I think Rhyperior will rise in usage also because of Kyurem's absence, so maybe Braviary won't rise in usage, who knows!

 

[g]

Does anybody have any clue as to how to counter Delphox? I can't think of anything in the tier that's able to take all of the possible attacks it can have (assume specs Fire Blast / Grass Knot / Psychic / Psyshock) short of Slowking (which takes a lot from Grass Knot with AV 252 HP and has a shot at getting 2HKOed with 252/252+ leftovers when rocks are up) and Zweilous (which I don't think should really be a problem).

It has a lot of checks (it's decently frail enough and weak to sucker punch; it's also slow enough that things like tornadus and the almighty purugly outspeed it) but it sure is scary.

Assault vest druddigon is the only other possible answer i can think of. It can switch in without hazards on almost any move (psyshock does ~50% if the delphox user predicts) and OHKO with Sucker Punch.
The only option for stall is scout with Slowking and then deal with it switching to a resistance. If Delphox is in Blaze range and hazards are up Fire Blast becomes so powerful it can 2hko even Slowking(doing up to 40 %). Delphox is amazing.

 

[Jaguar360]

Does anybody have any clue as to how to counter Delphox? I can't think of anything in the tier that's able to take all of the possible attacks it can have (assume specs Fire Blast / Grass Knot / Psychic / Psyshock) short of Slowking (which takes a lot from Grass Knot with AV 252 HP and has a shot at getting 2HKOed with 252/252+ leftovers when rocks are up) and Zweilous (which I don't think should really be a problem).

It has a lot of checks (it's decently frail enough and weak to sucker punch; it's also slow enough that things like tornadus and the almighty purugly outspeed it) but it sure is scary.

Eviolite Sliggoo is 3HKOed by Choice Specs Psyshock with Defense invested, but it fails to 2HKO with Muddy Water without Sp. Atk investment and has to watch out for any Magician sets lurking about to take its Eviolite.
Assault Vest Skuntank gets 2HKOed by Choice Specs Fire Blast, but OHKOs with Sucker Punch and can Pursuit trap it if it does not have Specs. It must watch for Will-o-Wisp however if Delphox does not have a Choice item.
Spiritomb can also survive Specs Fire Blast and OHKO with Sucker Punch or do over 52% with Shadow Sneak if Delphox is weakened.
I've had to find freaking Eviolite Dragonair as something that can barely live two Psyshocks or Psychics and 2HKO with Aqua Tail or phaze out with Dragon Tail. At least it can Rest Talk its way out, but it don't think it's worth it for RU.
252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 120 Def Eviolite Dragonair: 144-171 (44.1 - 52.4%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 120 Def Eviolite Marvel Scale Dragonair: 96-114 (29.4 - 34.9%) -- 10.1% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Psychic vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Eviolite Dragonair: 138-163 (42.3 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
Yeah. This is sad. Delphox has way too few counters in RU.

 

[Holy Dom]

Does anybody have any clue as to how to counter Delphox? I can't think of anything in the tier that's able to take all of the possible attacks it can have (assume specs Fire Blast / Grass Knot / Psychic / Psyshock) short of Slowking (which takes a lot from Grass Knot with AV 252 HP and has a shot at getting 2HKOed with 252/252+ leftovers when rocks are up) and Zweilous (which I don't think should really be a problem).

It has a lot of checks (it's decently frail enough and weak to sucker punch; it's also slow enough that things like tornadus and the almighty purugly outspeed it) but it sure is scary.

Dugtrio can trap it then OHKO with EQ, but you'd have to clear hazards and have a Sash.

Your own Delphox can wall it lol. But finding a place for Shadow Ball is hard unless you forgo Switcheroo or Calm Mind. If only regular Houndoom was allowed in RU..

Specially Defensive Uxie is bulky enough to eat a hit (Guaranteed 3HKO with Specs Fire Blast.. yeah) then cripple it with T-Wave and/or 2HKO it with Knock Off without investment. That's your best bet.

 

[Monte Cristo]

Iirc this is why imo Cress should be manditory on stall, due to it's ability to basically ruin most H due to it's titanic bulk and support movepool. I've been using the timid 252 screens/lunar dance gariant on HO as a pivot and reliable wall/screener, I've been using the CM moonblast set on balance, stall and offense and it works well imo. I've also been using 2 underrated sets on stall:
Cresselia @ Expert Belt
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest | Timid Nature (been using both, timid can do fast 95 speed tier stuff but modest ebelt moonblast vs sabel is fun)
Moonblast |Lunar Dance / Hidden Power [Fire] | Ice Beam | Psychic

Finding this to be a great lure in RU rn, it can break subroost kyus subs easily with Moonblast and outspeed it for a 2HKO. HP fire kills esca hard while LD lets common offensive mons sweep more than once, the lure factor of hp fire v esca is great for weakening it for things like Kyurem to sweep later. Psychic > shock cause most things in the tier rn are hit harder by Psychic. Ice beam is the best last slot coverage for cress on this set by far so using it n stuff.

Cresselia (AwesomeCress) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
Calm Mind | Psyshock / Moonblast | Rest | Sleep Talk

Standard CM spread for taking things like sneasel knock off and laughing at it. Resttalk meand you only have 1 coverage which leads to psyshock for STAB and CM wars or moonblast to not be sableye hard shitted on. It also means this set is subjective to the RNG, but just like Cromat's CroCune, it has the titanic bulk to deal with punishments from getting greedy from the RNG. Honestly, this thing can shit on HO rn, Cress used to take like ~40% from gene uturn in OU (+1 too!) So I doubt it takes much from the uturns in RU like azelf's. Same with Knock Off, barely any 2 back to back knock offs can kill it in the tier, and sabeleye's is kind of pathetic considering how well it takes the offensive ones in the tier. I would post imgs or calcs but I'm on mobile.

Have a fun Cresselia time in RU! ^_^

Does anybody have any clue as to how to counter Delphox? I can't think of anything in the tier that's able to take all of the possible attacks it can have (assume specs Fire Blast / Grass Knot / Psychic / Psyshock) short of Slowking (which takes a lot from Grass Knot with AV 252 HP and has a shot at getting 2HKOed with 252/252+ leftovers when rocks are up) and Zweilous (which I don't think should really be a problem).

It has a lot of checks (it's decently frail enough and weak to sucker punch; it's also slow enough that things like tornadus and the almighty purugly outspeed it) but it sure is scary.

Use my own custom awesome cress or sdef cress pls :]

• 252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 195-231 (43.9 - 52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
  
• 252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Fire Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 130-154 (29.2 - 34.6%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
  
• 252 SpA Life Orb Delphox Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 172-203 (38.7 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
  
• 252 SpA Life Orb Delphox Fire Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 114-136 (25.6 - 30.6%) -- 2.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
  
• 252 SpA Life Orb Delphox Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cresselia: 129-152 (29 - 34.2%) -- 99.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
  
• 252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cresselia: 147-174 (33.1 - 39.1%) -- 11.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
  
• 252+ SpA Choice Specs Delphox Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cresselia: 192-226 (43.2 - 50.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

seriously cress is fucking amazing in this metagame:

• 252 Atk Tornadus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cresselia: 168-198 (37.8 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
  
• 252 Atk Tornadus Knock Off (65 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cresselia: 112-134 (25.2 - 30.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
  
• 252 Atk Tornadus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 124-148 (27.9 - 33.3%) -- 90.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
  
• 252 Atk Tornadus Knock Off (65 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 84-100 (18.9 - 22.5%) -- possible 5HKO
  
• 4 SpA Cresselia Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus: 124-148 (41.3 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
  
• +1 4 SpA Cresselia Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus: 186-220 (62 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

EBELT CRESS IS FKIN AMAZING:

• 252+ SpA Expert Belt Cresselia Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus: 216-257 (72 - 85.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  
• 252 Atk Tornadus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cresselia: 168-198 (43.9 - 51.8%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO
  
• 252 SpA Life Orb Delphox Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 172-203 (45 - 53.1%) -- 25% chance to 2HKO
  
• 252+ SpA Expert Belt Cresselia Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Delphox: 161-190 (55.1 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Expulso]

Does anybody have any clue as to how to counter Delphox? I can't think of anything in the tier that's able to take all of the possible attacks it can have (assume specs Fire Blast / Grass Knot / Psychic / Psyshock) short of Slowking (which takes a lot from Grass Knot with AV 252 HP and has a shot at getting 2HKOed with 252/252+ leftovers when rocks are up) and Zweilous (which I don't think should really be a problem).

It has a lot of checks (it's decently frail enough and weak to sucker punch; it's also slow enough that things like tornadus and the almighty purugly outspeed it) but it sure is scary.

The type combinations that resist Fire / Psychic / Grass are (with their RU counterparts):
Dragon/Dark (Deino, Zweilous)
Dragon/Psychic (N/A)
Fire/Dark (Houndour)
Fire/Psychic (Delphox)

Interestingly, Delphox has 75/100 Special Defense, as well as WishTect recovery. It also gets access to Magical Fire, which lowers the target's Special Attack one stage.

The set to which I refer is:

Delphox @ Leftovers
Ability: Magician
EVs: 232 HP / 24 SDef / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Wish
- Magical Fire
- Protect
- Grass Knot / Will-o-Wisp / Hidden Power Ground

About the last slot: Grass Knot nails Rhyperior and Gastrodon, but HP Ground hits more targets SE and neutrally overall. Will-o-Wisp burns physical attackers, neutering them fairly well and patching up Delphox's mediocre Defense stat.

252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Psyshock vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Delphox: 117-138 (33.5 - 39.5%) -- 20.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Fire Blast vs. 232 HP / 24 SpD Delphox: 120-141 (34.3 - 40.4%) -- 51.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 232 HP / 24 SpD Delphox: 44-52 (12.6 - 14.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever
-1 252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Shadow Ball vs. 232 HP / 24 SpD Delphox: 156-184 (44.6 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

In conclusion, I urge you all to try out Defensive Delphox!

 

[migzoo]

One significant beneficiary from the bans that has gone overlooked is Lilligant. Lilligant benefits from Sableye being banned because this means no more priority taunt shenanigans stopping Lilligant from setting up. Lilligant benefits HUGELY from the Kyurem ban because scarf Kyurem outspeeds +1 Lilligant, it resists Giga Drain, takes little from HP Fire, and kills with Ice Beam. Lilligant also benefits from the Azelf ban because Scarf Azelf could outspeed +1 Lilligant and wreak havok.
Another thing note is that these were three checks to Lilligant that could NOT be trapped and killed by Dugtrio. Of the remaining checks to Lilligant, most of them are Fire types which resist Giga Drain and HP Fire. Dugtrio CAN trap and kill these most of the time, so I foresee Dugtrio + Lilligant being very effective with these bans.

 

[Davon]

Does anybody have any clue as to how to counter Delphox? I can't think of anything in the tier that's able to take all of the possible attacks it can have (assume specs Fire Blast / Grass Knot / Psychic / Psyshock) short of Slowking (which takes a lot from Grass Knot with AV 252 HP and has a shot at getting 2HKOed with 252/252+ leftovers when rocks are up) and Zweilous (which I don't think should really be a problem).

It has a lot of checks (it's decently frail enough and weak to sucker punch; it's also slow enough that things like tornadus and the almighty purugly outspeed it) but it sure is scary.

Grumpig duh. Counters everything.