np: RU Stage 1 - Welcome to the Jungle!

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Archeops, Aggron, Bouffalant, Crawdaunt, Crustle, Durant, Feraligatr,
Gallade, the Hitmons, Kabutops, Krookodile, Medicham, Poliwrath, Primeape, Sawsbuck, Sceptile, Scyther, Sharpedo. They would like to have a word with you.
And all of them get pooped on by Sableye. Honchcrow works because it only needs to work once. and even then it still has a strong priority move in Sucker Punch if it does get burned by Will O Wisp. So it's better off then most of the other sweepers.
 
Archeops, Aggron, Bouffalant, Crawdaunt, Crustle, Durant, Feraligatr,
Gallade, the Hitmons, Kabutops, Krookodile, Medicham, Poliwrath, Primeape, Sawsbuck, Sceptile, Scyther, Sharpedo. They would like to have a word with you.

Also, Nails, I you're probably watching this thread like a hawk, so... am I allowed to make a seperate thread on weather discussion in general? Or is that too much?
I'm saddened how Poliwrath is on the list but not Floatzel.
 
For all those saying rain/sun is a play-style down here in RU... it is not really a play-style. It's practically just an easy way to get points, if we ban one abuser, they'll just go on to the next. (And down here in RU, the abusers are a lot better.) If we ban one setter, they'll just go on to the next. This would work, but it'd require banning quite a few pokemon, possibly more then we need to ban. While if we ban Damp Rock/Heat Rock, sun/rain teams would heavily decrease in usage altogether as 4 turns to abuse weather is a lot worse then 7 turns. We'd also have to advantage of not having to ban any pokemon involving sun/rain unless a pokemon is still deemed broken inside the weather while having only 4 turns to work. (This is assuming sun/rain is deemed broken.)
 
There's no doubt that Sableye is just an absolute menace down here. I've, believe it or not, swept entire teams simply by giving burn and then just stalling because nothing can kill me. I don't know if there's anything we can do about it, but I'm just saying.
 
Floatzel also has Water Veil, making it a pretty solid option to switch into Sableye.
Not to mention Switcheroo, making it a nice CB user.

If it only it could keep Ice Punch with Water Veil.. or had something stronger than Waterfall. It's low BP moves really hurt it. Well, there's Aqua Tail, but nobody uses that.
 
Does adamant Max Atk LO Floatzel do enough damage to KO physically bulky Sableye with a combination of Waterfall + Aqua Jet?
Would really appreciate it if someone ran a calc on that one for me.
 
IMO the only thing that makes Sun/Rain broken is Sableye and possibly Uxie. Sableye really needs to GTFO of RU. Even thou it has a chance of becomming UU, it should really just get moved to BL2 as soon as possible. The fact that it wrecks any physical sweeper that is not Floatzel or fire type is just rediculous.. And priority sun/rain is way too good for RU. Getting swept by a sableye with no attacking moves just breaks peoples heart! It needs to go!

I'm not really sure about Uxie.. It's good for making weather and just U - Turning out, but easily crippled by Taunt and Trick. If Uxie were banned, people would just use Mespirit, so I believe that it would be a pretty pointless thing to do.

When it commes to sun sweepers, the only ones that MIGHT be too good for RU is Charizard and Sawsbuck. Everytime it commes in and it's sun, it's like you have to sack something, which is why I believe so many people complain about it, but it's kinda the same in OU. If Terrakion or Latios get a free switch in, you pretty much have to sack something, just to revenge them and they're not deemed broken there (at least not Latios). However, What makes me believe that Charizard is not broken, is the fact that after SR and and solar power, any sucker punch/ strong Quick Attack/Aqua Jet will kill it, and Charizard aint got no choice but staying in as it will die with the next switch in anyway. Very few of the Sun teams I've faced and made myself have had space for a spinner. The only option I've found is Sunny day/Rapid spin Claydol, but it's bad. Spinning in RU sucks at the moment, because you're facing a sableye like every 3rd match.

I'm not gonna say too much about Sawsbuck, as I've only faced one in the sun, however with it's great speed, great coverage and access to SD, I believe it deserves to be tested. Especially seing that it will most likely become NU. Still it's walled by steelix (Jump kick doesn't kill after a SD and you can just roar it away) and checked by Chice scarf Accelgor (which have gotten a lot of good words in this sub forum).

It would be great if anyone could bring calcs on how much final gambit/ bug buzz does to standard Sawsbuck.
 
Does adamant Max Atk LO Floatzel do enough damage to KO physically bulky Sableye with a combination of Waterfall + Aqua Jet?
Would really appreciate it if someone ran a calc on that one for me.
Adamant LO Waterfall vs Max Defence Sableye: 45.7% - 54.3%
Adamant LO Waterfall vs Max Sp. Defence Sableye: 67.1% - 79.3%
Aqua Jet is exactly half of those calcs of course.

So no, it never KOes defensive Sableye even after rocks but it does KO sp.def versions provided they stay in on the Aqua Jet.
 
Thanks for that, most sableye users I have seen do tend to stay in because they think their recover will go first. I just wish floatzel was stronger...
 

Stratos

Banned deucer.
Can we call an emergency vote on Sableye? It's just broken out the window, and the earlier it leaves the better.
 

Molk

Godlike Usmash
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Can we call an emergency vote on Sableye? It's just broken out the window, and the earlier it leaves the better.
Seconding this, it just makes to much of the tier useless, it basically destroys stall, yet also makes stall much more viable. its just to much of a defensive threat for ru.
 
To all of you saying "Oh, it will go OU/UU," if a poke is not banned, it will only move from that tier if it has the usage stats of that tier for three months. So if you want to have Sableye here for two more months to let it go UU, have fun with that.

And I know its a bad argument to say "Beat a broken poke with another broken poke" but Download Porygon-Z does well against Sableye if it gets the Sp. Atk raise... and why is no one saying we need to ban PZ anymore? It's just a freaking menace.
 

Windsong

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About the whole Sableye thing, I had a short little discussion with Nails and some other guys on #rarelyused about quickbanning it, and we're all pretty much against it.

17:04 <Nails> what should we do about sableye
17:04 <Zeph> hi
17:04 <Zeph> idc
17:05 <badabing> ^
17:05< Nails> i havent done shit on smogon over the past week so i should prolly play the meta...
17:05 <windsong> it's really not that broken
17:05 <Nails> but is it worth quickbanning?
17:05 <windsong> no
17:05 <Zeph> ^
17:05 <Honko> it's super annoying IF you don't prepare for it
17:05 <Honko> and nobody likes preparing for things
17:05 <badabing> like bp
17:05 <Honko> so everyone wants to ban it
17:05<Nails> what are good ways to prepare for it
17:05<Nails> natu doesnt count
17:05 <windsong> bring a special attacker
17:05 <Honko> entei
17:06 <windsong> or a fire type
17:06<Honko> or any special attacker
17:06<Nails> have people used cm sableye yet
17:06 <windsong> nope
17:06 <Honko> only one i've seen was oglemi lol
17:06<windsong> it really needs taunt/recover/wow though
17:06 <Nails> yeah i figured
 

Windsong

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Careful 252/ 132 Sableye takes 26.64-31.58% from Modest SpecsLens Yanmega. I rest my case.
Um, get your damage calculations correct please.

Modest SpecsMega deals 69.4% - 81.9% to 252/252 Careful Sableye.
Modest SpecsMega deals 79.93% - 94.08% to 252/132 Careful Sableye.

Not that either calc really matters what with Mega being banned from RU now, but it's worth noting that Yanmega's Bug Buzzes were by no means the strongest special attack in the tier.
 
@ Waterwarrior

"To all of you saying "Oh, it will go OU/UU,"

Nobody has said that in the last 3 pages lol let alone saying they want to wait for it to possibly rise.

Porygon Z is not a suspect because if it's a scarf set, it's not strong enough to KO walls, If it's a specs set, then it's not fast enough, if it's a sub agillity set, then it still has problems taking down it's checks and the last resort set is walled by pokes like Bastiodon and Steelix. Comming to think of it, Bastiodon walls any set of him to hell. Alakazam is a great check to any non scarfed Porygon OHKOing with Focus *cough* Miss and also gets a second chance to hit with it's sash. When even Mandibuzz can toxic stall it, you know it's not too strong for RU. Zam is a greater treat to most teams than Porygon anyway, so if any special sweeper is broken, it's him.
 
I personally never had any problem with Sableye but then again my team is more than prepare for it. My only physical attacker are Hariyama (with guts) and choice band Gallade with trick.
 

Honko

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You just have to remember Sableye's defenses are terrible. Way too often I see someone trying to set up with SD or DD while their opponent switches Sableye in and burns them. If instead of setting up you just hit Sableye on the switch with any decently powerful attack, you're gonna do 70% or more, so it will have to sacrifice itself to get that burn off. Slap a Lum Berry on something and it's even easier. And if you misplay and a couple of your attackers get burned, there are some excellent clerics available.
 
Saybleye is not broken. I use one but it is the worse at switch ins.

Also Saybleye can be 2KOed by Foresight Hitmonchan or Hitmonlee by a Hi Jump Kick EVEN WITH A BURN!
 
Sableye would certainly make a good suspect, as any unprepared team is going to get destroyed. Any non-boosting special attacker most likely will destroy Sableye, or a phaser + entry hazards would work well, possibly.
 
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