Metagame NP: RU Stage 10: Your Makeup is Terrible

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Got reqs a few days ago, so finally decided to write up a post on this.

Noivern... with the coverage it gets from draco/hurricane/flamethrower, not to mention dark pulse and boomburst, there's nothing really that can come in safely on this. With other options such as u-turn, switcheroo, taunt and roost, it becomes just that much harder to deal with. Thanks to that amazing speed tier, there's not much that can revenge kill it either. Fantastic ability in infiltrator as well. Overall, this mon is clearly just too much for this tier, which is why I will be voting ban.

As for Reuniclus, the CM set alone is already ridiculous enough thanks to its immunity to toxic/burn/any kind of residual damage, when you also consider all the other very viable sets it can run like AV and offensive trick room, it just makes it worse. There's only a handful of mons that can handle this thing, and if you don't have one of those mons on your team, you pretty much just lose. It also has not one but two amazing abilities in magic guard and regenerator. All in all, this thing is just too much for RU, it needs to go. Ban
 

Syncrasy

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Wasnt able to get Finish Reqs but still want to give my 2 cents on Noivern and Reuniclus
On Noivern is a pretty versatile mon who can run Specs,taunt,switcheroo ,ect it is also a hard mon to switch into and can keep up momentum with uturn/
On Reuniclus The CM set is a very hard one to handle and only a few things in RU check it reliably(Honorable mention one being Spiritomb) Its abilities are also great being Magic-guard which allows it to not take hazard damage or status damge, and regenerator which allows it to recover 1/3 of its health every switch in(quite nice on AV set) it also has some p cool sets being TR which is p well against offense and CM which can tear apart through unprepared teams
cant vote but i think both these guys Deserve a Ban
 
Got reqs about 2 weeks ago, but was too lazy to post. As a result of that laziness, I won't expound on my choices concerning the two suspects.

With that said, I vote ban to Noivern, and ban to Reuniclus.
 

feen

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Ah I didn't make a post-reqs post yet, so here it is:

Noivern is an incredibly dangerous pokemon in the tier, with one of the fastest mons and with high end attacks in Draco Meteor and Hurricane, with access to coverage and switcheroo, backed up with a great ability in Infiltrator has few switch ins such as Togetic, SpD Aromattaise, AV Reuniclus, Jellicent and such. Even though it has some checks, they can easily be worn down and Specs Hurricane still hurts a lot. I feel that this pokemon is too good for the tier right now. Therefore, I'll be voting ban.

On the other hand, Reuniclus is so versatile. It can tear through offense with TR 3 attacks LO, it can tear through stall with CM Psyshock Sball/SignalBeam/FocusBlast or it can be tearing through balance with AV Future Sight. The only counter to Reuniclus is Spiritomb, nothing else enjoys coming into a Reuniclus, which makes it such a dangerous pokemon. Great bulk, great Special Attack, great coverage and backed with great abilities in Regenerator and Magic Guard. It seems to centralise the tier to an extend it's considered to be broken. Therefore, I'll be voting ban.

If these two pokemons get banned, Cobalion will arise because it's 2 great checks are gone and might be quickban worthy, but the 'broken checks broken' mentality will make the tier unhealthy.
 

Kiyo

the cowboy kid
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Thoughts on supsects (I already voted and most of the info has prob been regurtitated by 20 other people so unless you're curious as to my reasonings you can just skip reading this, haha)

Noivern: Choice Specs is atrociously strong and can cripple common defensive switch-ins with Switcheroo. Taunt+Roost can effectively beat defensive teams when played well. Life Orb Roost just tears apart offensive teams that don't pack a Choice Scarf user able to reliably OHKO it. I never actually lost to a team with Noivern on suspect ladder, but my defensive check (in this case Togetic) could have been overwhelmed by Stealth Rock and double switches if my opponents had played a little better if I'm being honest. The few games I've played with offense haven't been enjoyable matching up against Noivern either, it claims a life every time it comes in. Naturally this is true of a lot of Pokemon that threaten offensive teams; however they're not typically as fast as Noivern unboosted. Overall this Pokemon is very difficult to prepare for and deal with throughout the course of the match depending upon the set, I'm fairly comfortable voting for a Ban on it.

Reuniclus: I've always liked Trick Room offensive Reuniclus in more offensive metagames like early- and mid-XY, and, while still a good set it fails to do anything significant versus more defensive teams. Speaking of defensive teams, they get absolutely shit on by Calm Mind sets unless they're running Snarl+Rest Spiritomb. Calm Mind variants have nothing to worry about when it comes to residual damage, and find various opportunitites to set up throughout the game. Anyone who's played a CM Reuni knows how fucking bulky, annoying, and devestating it can be. I really don't feel like making more points or counterarguments so I'll just leave it at an obvious Ban.
 

Senpai D.M

さようなら
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Okay going to post thoughts before voting..
Pretty much summing up what everyone has said and agrees on.

Reuniclus - Like Cressellia it has insane bulk and can eat up knock offs then recover the damage. It really feels too good for the tier as it restrains teambuilding. I had to use two dark mons just to be prepared and even then a good player can wear and tear checks and outlast to lategame sweep. Thats just the cm set but also what takes a future sight? No mon should be this unhealthy and it threatens all playstyles reason why I'll be voting Ban.

Noivern - Noivern reminds me of Moltres but a much more diverse in movesets and speed that gives offense a nightmare lol, but not only offense... It also can run taunt for balance/stall to shut teams down it also tricks an important mon and its over pretty much outlasting any threats to it then clicking roost to remain a pain to teams. With noivern you had to run perhaps a ice mon and hope for the best also bulkier walls dont like confusion haxx. ;_; So I'll be voting Ban.
 

DKFirelord

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Already voted on these two and everyone mostly said everything already that I written

Noivern: The choice specs set (which I've used the most ) is unbelievable strong it even has a chance to 2 hit KO Special Defensive Togetic after rocks or if you don't need specs you could just trick it on a mon to cripple it. I've also seen the Taunt + Roost set an it's pretty good to making it a good anti lead stoping Uxie from Thunderwaving it or being a weather setter and Seismatoad from getting up rocks. Also this thing pretty much just breaks offense since not really anything can switch in on it if running offense. Ban

Reuniclus: I've used mostly the otr set and no one prepares for it since they mostly are going to prepare for Calm Mind and unless you have like a Spirtomb pretty much you get a kill each time it sets up tr or just straights up attack. The Calm Mind set just breaks Stall and Bulky Offence and can still take dark types attacks like Knock Off and recover it off. Ban
 

atomicllamas

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Reuniclus and Noivern were both banned from RU in a landslide vote

We are going to be letting the meta game settle for a bit to see if anything seems supsect worthy (yes, Cobalion is already on our radar, it was even before this test z_z, other things may pop up though so we'd like to see what the meta looks like before jumping straight into another test).

Tagging The Immortal so he knows to update the ladder (thanks in advance!).
 

Holiday

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An Arcadia is a utopia for 1 person or a few people so make this the NP music bc this is Cobalion, MGlalie, and Scrafty's arcadia.

Coba was already best mon in tier, and it just lost two checks so it's only gotten better. Don't even need to discuss how potent it is.

MGlalie has always hit like a truck, and now with Flygon becoming main dragon, it's gonna have fun ice sharding that, setting spikes, or exploding.

Scrafty is arguably the most versatile sweeper in meta. Roseli, Coba, and Chople Berry for setting up on weaknesses, Band or Leftovers for Power or sustainability, either Bulk Up or DDance as your set up move, and three great abilities that allow you to dodge status, lower attack, or boost your own. Definitely a mon to look out for.
 

DKFirelord

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Say hello to reun number 2 ,Musharna, she will enjoy her stay in RU now and will possible becoming part of it sorry NU ;;
EDIT:Here goes some possible sets for it so far shout out to HypnoEmpire for the CM set​
Musharna @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Moonlight
- Heal Bell / Thunderwave / Baton Pass

Musharna @ Life Orb
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Psychic
- Trick Room
- Dazzling Gleam
- Shadow Ball
 
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MrAldo

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Ive been shouting musharna since the beginning of this suspect test as a "replacement" (nothing will replace reuniclus, lets be honest) so it could possibly be something interesting to test.

Cobalion... is just so freaking good, holy shit. With reuniclus and noivern gone it lost 2 of its best checks and now it can run rampant on the tier with little consequence. Damn

Will let the metagame settle but cobalion easily stands out, but definitely gonna keep an eye on mega glalie and fighting lizard.

I welcome uxie and musharna usage with open arms.
 
Musharna has several flaws, really, that would make it far less potent than Reuniclus was. A Calm Mind set only has space for one attack as it's pretty much forced to run Heal Bell to avoid being crippled by Toxic. It also can't run a Trick Room set nearly as well because it's significantly weaker, doesn't get Focus Blast and feels Life Orb recoil.

If Musharna has a place in this metagame, it's as a wall and/or defensive pivot, or for Baton Passing Calm Mind boosts. I don't think it would be that effective as a sweeper. If anything, comparisons to Cresselia are more appropriate than Reuniclus, though it isn't anywhere near as good as Cresselia was either.
 
Musharna has several flaws, really, that would make it far less potent than Reuniclus was. A Calm Mind set only has space for one attack as it's pretty much forced to run Heal Bell to avoid being crippled by Toxic. It also can't run a Trick Room set nearly as well because it's significantly weaker, doesn't get Focus Blast and feels Life Orb recoil.

If Musharna has a place in this metagame, it's as a wall and/or defensive pivot, or for Baton Passing Calm Mind boosts. I don't think it would be that effective as a sweeper. If anything, comparisons to Cresselia are more appropriate than Reuniclus, though it isn't anywhere near as good as Cresselia was either.
I think the question isn't, "Is Musharna as good as Reuniclus or Cress?" but rather, "Can Musharna fill their niche?" That niche being a bulky calm mind poke (as I understand it) and while I'm not sure if Mush, Cofagrigus, Spiritomb, Uxie, Mesprite or Mega-Audino are completely worth it they do seem like they can fill that void.
 
The thing with cobalion is it has little to no way to fight ghosts and psychics effectively. Yes, it is fast and versatile, but psychic and ghost types can check/counter it pretty well. Not to mention emboar who is usually a good offensive threat to cobalion. True, Cobalion is very good in this tier, but i wouldn't go too far as to say it needs to leave. Just as a side note, if/when milotic and trevenant come down to ru they too will handle cobalion well.
 

Meru

ate them up
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Musharna can't even beat Cobalion if it switches into SD, especially if it's running Psyshock. Cobalion +4 Iron Head 2HKOs Musharna while Musharna's Psychic only 3HKOs Cobalion, although it can weaken Cobalion for something faster like Durant Sneasel or Scarf Tyrantrum to sweep past it.

0 SpA Musharna Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cobalion: 135-160 (41.7 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+4 252 Atk Cobalion Iron Head vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 244-288 (56.3 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life
I think Sigilyph should get some discussion now that one of it's competitors, Reuni, is gone
 

DKFirelord

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After some battles testing Murshrna sets tbh I like the Otr set more then CM it hits harder then you'd expect it to (if only it got Focus Miss lol ) I've been using TR Psyschic Dazzling Gleam and Shadow Ball on this set it hits everything for at least Nuetral damage but I advise using SR with it. Uxie however I've used CM T-Wave and CM Heal Bell and it's actually really good ( Also seen some Duision on the ladde lol xD)
 

sniperr

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coballion is definitely looking like a even bigger threat for sure now. Looking at ru, I just noticed how many pokes he can set up on and potentially sweep. not saying he's broken, just a more powerful force than before. looking forward to seeing how the meta handles the cob now after bans.
 

atomicllamas

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I'd rather use toxic + SD to beat jellicent. Cobalions special STABs are inferior to its physical STABs and it takes so much longer for CM to be threatening.
 

Lord Death Man

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I think Sigilyph should get some discussion now that one of it's competitors, Reuni, is gone
I really don't think they were ever directly competing. Sigi does like a billion things and bulky CM is one of the less interesting ones.

Anyways, Scarf Emboar is back and even more of a monster than usual, Virizion does stuff again, I think Sub sets in general got a little better because people won't feel as compelled to run roar and Spiritomb and Noivern is gone, people will stop pretending HP Ice was the only relevant coverage move on Accelgor (it has a really nice movepool guys :(), Tangrowth will rekt even harder now.

I didn't have a problem running Offense in the Noivern meta but I admit it got a *huge* boost in that I can run through teams with less risk.

Anyways cool mons that probably got better: Cobalion, Scrafty, Tangrowth, Virizion, Medicham, Emboar, Accelgor, the move "Substitute", Mega Steelix, Jolteon, anything without super effective coverage on Reuniclus, status in general, anything slower than Noivern that couldn't kill it before it killed them, Dugtrio probably, Escavalier sort of, Druddigon, Amoonguss, Gurdurr, other stuff I don't use and never see on the ladder, etc.
 

HypnoEmpire

Yokatta...
One set that I've had decent success with is Thunder Wave Baton Pass Musharna. Here's the set I've been using:

Musharna @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Bold Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Baton Pass
- Moonlight
- Psychic

I gave it enough speed to outpace Black Glasses Spiritomb by 1 point and I dumped the rest of the EVs in HP and Defense to take on threats like Cobalion to paralyze them. I'm still tweaking the EVs as I'm not 100% on the Speed EVs and it could run less to invest more in Def to take Scarf Emboar's Flare Blitz a bit better. Musharna not only paralyzes threats but also takes advantage of its low Speed to get something in safely. The best thing is, Musharna can continue to do this throughout the match thanks to its solid bulk and access to reliable recovery. Psychic also hits for a nice amount of damage, 2HKOing or 3HKOing many offensive Pokemon in the tier that don't resist or are immune to it. It has some competition with Uxie in this role but I think it has enough going for it to give it a niche.

A couple replays just to show how it works:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-239314474
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-239319148


They're not the best replays but I think you get the basic idea. I'll try to get some battles where I can get more use with Baton Pass. As Meru pointed out above it doesn't actually counter Cobalion, but it's a nice check as it threatens to Thunder Wave it and if it Taunts or Subs when you go for Psychic instead, Musharna can win bar Iron Head flinch hax. It's not the best Pokemon but it gets its job done pretty well.
 
Since Reuniclus and Noivern are both banned, your boy is coming back to RU.

I'll post on what the meta might look like in the moment but i'm saying, Meloetta's usage will spike like crazy in the next few weeks.
 
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