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np: RU Stage 12 - Rocket Man

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Oglemi, Nov 21, 2012.

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  1. Oglemi

    Oglemi gimme
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    C&C Leader

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    And with that both Durant and Cresselia have been unbanned and are a part of RU once again, welcome back.

    So where do we go from here?

    Well, we've decided to do something a little different once again. We're going to be doing a staggered ladder; 2 weeks with a ladder with Cress and Nidoqueen, 2 weeks a ladder without them. This is the only feasible way with our playerbase and the only way Zarel is going to implement a way for us to compare two different metas to see which one is really the more balanced one. We should be able to answer at the end of the round if Cress simply made Nidoqueen not broken by itself. We can also decide if a metagame without them is a better more balanced one.

    Some questions to think about. Will Dusknoir usage drop once people realize that it's really not that good? How will Durant effect the metagame with Nidoqueen and Cress absent? What Pokemon will rise to the top without either one in the metagame? Moltres? Sceptile? Slowking?

    This round will end 4 weeks from today, and screenshots will be taken on December 5th and December 19th.

    Keep the discussion civil and remember that you can become a member of the Council by making great posts here, so get cracking!

    And of course here's the song (and the best version of it imo)

    [youtube]L77R2eJ279k[/youtube]
  2. SilentVerse

    SilentVerse Into the New World
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    Moderator

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    Also, I'd like to add that I will be taking screenshots at the end of each two week period, so make sure to get your alts as high as possible before December 5th and December 19th (the ladder will be reset after the 5th, but it will not be reset until then)! Furthermore, for the December 5th screenshot, none of the alts that were in the screenshots of the last Voter ID Thread will count towards voting rights, so get laddering!

    Edit: nvm, the ladder got reset so all alts are fair game!
  3. complete legitimacy

    complete legitimacy Honko's Happy Funtime With Men
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    I'd just like to take the time to point out that after a full year of tiering that BL2 only has one Pokemon (and SmashPass) in it. I personally think that's pretty cool.

    Now onto the metagame. I think it'll be interesting to see a metagame without Cresselia and Nidoqueen, and whether it'll make the tier similar to BW1 RU, where literally any playstyle was not only viable but good. However, I don't think that banning Nidoqueen will stop the offense rampage; there are still many Pokemon out there that have very few counters (Sceptile, Moltres, Gallade, Kabutops) and even without Nidoqueen, RU will still be offensive. I'm not usually a big fan of banning things that require you to be a better player than your opponent in order to win, and both Nidoqueen and Cresselia are like that, but I'l guess we'll see how a metagame without them fares. I'm actually very excited for this round.
  4. agreavesny

    agreavesny

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    I honestly think cress will stay RU, as it's typing and nearly 0 offensive prowess hurt it a lot. Nidoqueen on the other hand is versatile bulky and has a wide movepool, and that's why i think at the end of this nidoqueen will be a not-that-used-in-UU BL2
  5. phoopes

    phoopes The Boss
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    Nearly 0 offensive prowess? Once Cress gets a few Calm Minds up, it can hit pretty hard. This isn't really that hard to do either, because of its fantastic bulk. I'm thinking it will stay RU, though, because a Trick or a strong physical attacker that resists Psychic and your coverage move is a pain. Actually, the biggest problem I've had with Cresselia is that if both you and your opponent carry one, it usually turns into a 100 turn stall war. I think it's a good Pokemon in the current metagame, but only that: good. Not good enough for BL2, however.
  6. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    Im just going to point out some things that i think are really good in this metagame, there are some really cool things that i have tried that arent being used at all, heres a Pokemon and a core that ive been using quite a bit.

    [​IMG]
    Tauros (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Spa / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - Rock Climb
    - Rock Slide
    - Fire Blast
    - Earthquake

    Tauros is really good in RU right now, tbh, i dont think Tauros was ever bad in the tier, and i dont understand why it isnt used more. Tauros is blessed with an excellent base 110 Speed stat, a good 100 attack, 2 great abilities in Intimidate and Sheer Force, and some great coverage options to work with like Rock Slide, Earthquake, Fire Blast, and Zen Headbutt. Combine all of these awesome qualities and you have a physical attacker that isnt just worth using, but is exceptional at its job. It may seem weird to run Fire Blast on a Pokemon with such low special attack, but DAMN does it come in handy a lot. For one thing, it allows the angry bull to hit two of its counters, Steelix and Tangrowth for a shitload of damage, always 2hkoing the latter and taking down the former with some hazard damage. Fire Blast is also a valuable weapon against weakened Escavalier, and can even allow Tauros to serve as an emergency Durant check if you need it! Outside of luring in physical walls to decimate them with Fire Blast, Tauros is still a really good Pokemon. Rock Climb reaches an impressive 118 bp with Sheer Force factored in, which is more than enough to OHKO almost every offensive pokemon and 2HKO the majority of bulky threats at the very least. Because of Sheer Force's bonus of cancelling out Life Orb recoil, tauros doesnt get worn down by residual damage as easily as some other normal-types, and can now take advantage of its decent physical bulk. If Tauros for some reason misses an attack or cant outright KO a bulky pokemon, chances are it can probably take a hit from them and try again the next turn, which is really useful. So far ive only tried the sheer force life orb set, but there are probably some other sets that work too like Intimidate band, and hell even scarf might be a cool niche revenge killer (why cant you get SD nigga tauros ;_;.) Has anyone else tried Tauros in this metagame at all, if so, how did it do? Im probably going to edit this post in a little bit because i had an offensive core i wanted to talk about, but im too lazy to make a longer post atm haha.


    EDIT:
    added core


    [​IMG]
    Escavalier (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Swarm
    EVs: 252 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Megahorn
    - Iron Head
    - Pursuit
    - Sleep Talk

    [​IMG]
    Slowking @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 248 HP / 8 Def
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Trick Room
    - Surf
    - Psyshock
    - Fire Blast

    This is a really powerful offensive core in the RU tier that also has quite a bit of bulk to it, unlike quite a few other offensive combinations. If you have ever played an Escavalier, you will know that it hits really, really hard, but Escavalier is also held back by its very low Speed stat, and while it can take pretty much any hit that isnt a fire move, its low speed still holds it back at times. This is one of the main reasons why Offensive Trick Room Slowking is such a great partner for Escavalier, When under Trick Room, Escavalier becomes a total monster that almost always goes first, hits like not just one, but 10 trucks, is really damn bulky, and to top it all off, takes almost nothing from all of the common priority in the tier, and with its great bulk, nice resists, and regenerator, Slowking has no trouble setting it up. While Trick Room only lasts for three turns counting the turn you take up switching in Escavalier, 3 turns can easily translate into 3 KOs when it comes to something this powerful. Slowking and Escavalier also have excellent defensive synergy, taking out many of the Pokemon the other struggles with. For example, Escavalier can easily come in on the majority of Dark-types that come in in and threaten Slowking, while in return, Slowking can take any stray fire moves the opponent may use to exterminate the snail and set up a Trick Room from there. I would honestly advise any player that needs a solid offensive core that can easily take hits from the majority of the tier to try this combination out, it doesnt need to be used on a full Trick Room team either, in fact, i just stuck it on a random offensive team and it worked perfectly, so dont worry about that.
  7. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold .R
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    Now Durant has Superpower for Steelix, take about 56-66% without boost, only with Life Orb and Hustle, isnt a good check, only for the choice Durant versions.

    I always like Tauros after the ban of Cofagrigus because the meta RU lost the big counter of this mon (also, very used). Tauros is a great wallbreaker with great offensive options and very fast, now the problem is other called: Cresselia.
  8. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    I tried Tauros BEFORE Cresselia came out and it does need quite the support to function even though it can still be effective. It does a ton of damage, but for some reason I found it missing out on a lot of KOs (it 2HKOed everything ever but it often got OHKOed by some thing with Focus Blast and it got OHKO by Nidoqueen with Earth Power). For some reason it is faster than Durant but Cresselia is yet another Pokemon that walls it. To put it into perspective...

    252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs 252 HP/0 Def Cresselia: 40.09% - 47.3% (3 hits to KO)

    Of course physically defesive ones are even more painful and if Tauros gets paralyzed its doomed. I see it, however, as probably one of the biggest late-game threats out there when the opponent's team is weakened to about 50%, because like I said it 2HKOs everything, but OHKOs not that much.

    Speaking of Cresselia and Durant, Durant hasn't changed the metagame that much but Cresselia has really caused a change in the metagame. Nidoqueen, Gallade, Electivire (whatever merit it had), Hariyama, Tauros, Aerodactyl, Uxie, Mesprit, Sceptile, Rhydon, and other Pokemon are really starting to become less effective since either their STABs can't hit Cresselia for good damage or they can only 3HKO it with their strongest moves and have no reliable way to get past the thing since it can just heal them or paralyze them. Since it has instant recovery and an immunity to Spikes and the occasional Toxic Spikes it jsut shows up over and over again. Without something like Drapion, Escavalier, Scyther, or Crawdaunt that thing is impossible to beat - it can just stop you silly Swords Dance sweep with a Thunder Wave if you can't do enough damage.

    Also heck yeah the title has Rocket in it.

    EDIT: The average RU player will think that Dusknoir can get past Cresselia and Durant probably. Too bad it doesn't

    132 Atk Dusknoir Shadow Punch vs 252 HP/0 Def Cresselia: 29.05% - 34.46% (3-4 hits to KO)

    That's pretty weak

    252 +1 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Iron Head vs 252 HP/124 Def Dusknoir (+Def) : 73.47% - 86.73% (2 hits to KO)

    That is pretty sad too but at the very least Dusknoir can be a last-second check provided its at full health / got hit by Stealth Rock. That isn't much though since it still dies.
  9. Windsong

    Windsong .dancin
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    I have to admit, I'm rather disappointed with the results of the voting. A few of the votes, in my opinion, took far too heavily into question the fact that the metagame is ever so slightly more diverse than stage 10 (imho it's not, just a different playstyle is on top), and outright skimmed over the fact that Cresselia walls hugely significant portions of the metagame and is capable of individually beating almost every single so called "hard counter" depending on the set that it's running. It single handedly warps the metagame to "kill Cressy or get killed with Cressy", a situation that occurs in a huge number of games. It centralizes the metagame to a ridiculous extent, and while that alone is not a reason for Cresselia to be unbanned, the way the metagame skews around Cresselia is.
  10. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]

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    Found a really cool mon in this metagame, that absolutely demolishes Cresselia stall: Cacturne.

    [​IMG]
    Cacturne @ Life Orb
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Substitute
    - Swords Dance
    - Sucker Punch
    - Seed Bomb

    Cacturne is such a great wallbreaker at the moment, since it takes full advantage of cresselia, setting up a Substitute with ease against mono-attacking Cresselia, and then getting up a SD with near impunity. At +2, not much can take it's assaults-and the best part is that Poliwrath, which is normally used to handle all cresselia counters such as Absol, falls to a +2 Seed Bomb. He even 2HKO's Tangrowth after one layer of spikes and SR with Sucker Punch! Unlike some other poli+cress core counters, such as Leavanny, Cacturne is not useless against offensive teams-instead, it can use it's immunities and typing to get up a Substitute, set up a SD and start wrecking things with Sucker Punch. Or, if you don't get the chance to use SD, Cacturne still hits pretty damn hard straight off the bat, 1HKOing Galvantula after SR, as well as Manectric after SR and a layer of spikes for example and Moltres after rocks as well. Although Cacturne is not as powerful as Absol, Cacturne still packs one hell of a punch thanks to it's base 115 attack and powerful priority move, and the secondary grass typing gives it a great secondary STAB to break through Poliwrath and Qwilfish with. Seriously, try this guy out, he's a great mon in this metagame and won't dissapoint you as long as he has the right support.

    Fear the shaqtus
  11. Double01

    Double01 Hate it or love it the under dog's on top

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    Well after making a new offensive team surrounding klinklang and subcm uxie. I have found some other cool pokes along the way. The best one I have found was Piloswine.

    Piloswine @ Eviolite
    Trait: Thick Fat
    Evs: 252 HP / 252 def / 4 def
    Adamant nature
    - Stealth Rocks
    - Earthquake
    - Icicle Crash
    - Ice Shard

    I have found piloswine to be one of the best SRer in the tier. It beats and kills all rapid spinners due to it's massive bulk, unique typing, and Great 100 base attack. Ice shard is particularly useful because it allows it to pick off weakened grass types like sceptile and lilligant aswell as just being a pretty good priority move. I really think more people should be looking at stuff in NU cause I'm sure piloswine isn't going to be the only thing good in this tier that come from the depths of NU
  12. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]

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    Yeah Piloswine is a really great SR tank. I prefer Stone Edge over Ice Shard, since then I'm able to check Moltres with Piloswine, as well as beating Cryogonal with ease(pilo actually makes a really good cryo counter if it carries Stone Edge, as it basically resists Ice Beam thanks to Thick Fat). This guy's bulk is so under-rated as well-it take around 50% from Nidoqueen Earth Power iirc, and only take 80% max from Adamant Kabutops Waterfall. It also survives max damage Moltres Hurricane. It even survives CB Escavalier's Iron Head 75% of the time, and will always survive a CB Megahorn, although it can't really do anything back like it can with the other mentioned mons.
  13. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    I can definitely support Piloswine being a good Pokemon in this metagame after stalking some of Double01's matches and trying it a little bit myself :P.

    As Silvershadow234 already mentioned, Piloswine is incredibly bulky with Eviolite factored in, taking the vast majority of attacks with ease, this helps the mammoth pig get up Stealth Rock that much more easily. I personally like max attack Adamant Piloswine to deal as much damage as possible, because 100 is actually really good for both a NFE and a defensive Pokemon. Piloswine's Ice attacks come in handy quite a bit quite a bit thanks to their cool special effects, Ice Shard is priority and gives Piloswine the ability to revenge kill things like offensive Grass- and Dragon-types as well as some frail Pokemon. Icicle Spear is great for breaking down substitutes and getting through Focus Sashes and/or Sturdy, which is also very useful in a pinch. Thick Fat is a godsend for Piloswine as well, as it completely removes its Fire weakness and gives it an extra resist to Ice-Type moves, somewhat patching the wounds that the Ice-type left defensively. Im personally finding Piloswine to be pretty good both from damage calcs and playing experience, and ill be sure to add more to this post after further testing :).
  14. TheBaron

    TheBaron

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    I use a core of specs Slowking and specs Tangrowth. And now an ode to my lovely regenerator core. Ahem...

    although my core is very slow
    they are difficult to one hit k-o

    with specs they blow their foes away
    thus i rack up wins today

    surf, leaf storm, and hp fire
    my core will never start to tire

    their one weakness is the type of "bug"
    the type of bug makes me say "ugh"

    o fie, the evil nidoqueen!
    it defeats my core, how so very mean

    They tank physical hits quite well, (can't switch into Escavalier, however) but my team lacks a special wall. Slowking can take the weaker hits of the aforementioned type of "bug". Tangrowth, I feel, is an overlooked Pokémon in the tier. Coming from 110 Modest 252 Choice Specs Special Attack, a STAB Leaf Storm is a kick in the pants to almost every Pokémon in the tier. However, it needs good support to be able to succeed. I don't really know who that would be, though. While my team readily deals with either Nidoqueen or Galvanutla, the two in conjuction mean an almost certain loss for me.
  15. Leman

    Leman

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    I've seen a couple Piloswine on the ladder thus far. It does pretty well. I feel like Pokemon with more power such as Aggron, Rhydon or Aerodactyl do a better job as offensive/bulky offense SR setters.

    Some observations on the ladder.
    - Moltres is really, really, really good. Both the SubRoost and the Life Orb set. LO just powers through everything other than Cresselia, Slowking, Munchlax and Lanturn, but it can take most of those Pokemon down with some prior damage (or, in Slowkings case, decent Accuracy rolls from Hurricane). But yeah, Moltres has a lot of opportunities to come in on balanced and defensive teams (ie, against Steelix, Spiritomb, Tangrowth, Sandlash, Ferroseed) and fire off an obscenely powerful attack. Even with SR on the field if you time Moltres' strike properly, it can do a ton of damage.
    - I didn't play the last round, but Cresselia is broken as fuck. When you check/counter every Pokemon in the tier besides ~5, you probably need to go. Stupid stuff like LO Absol doesn't even 2HKO (it does like 45%, enough to let Cresselia Paralyze and switch out). Speaking of which, she spread Paralysis like nobody's business.
    - Nidoqueen is also ridiculous, in my opinion. I feel like it almost invalidates balance as a play style, since it will get in pretty easily against your slower stuff. Kill something on the switch with its great coverage. its really hard to revenge since it can take most non-SE attacks, and most non-STABed SE attacks as well.
    - Also offensive Slowking, Escavalier and Klinkklang are really good right now.
  16. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest I Love Goomy
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    Cresselia is simply ridiculous. Its bulk is equivalent to that of God itself, so much that Absol needs a Swords Dance boost to whoop its ass. And Esca can't KO it with Pursuit. Thunder Wave is an annoying move, it allows Cress to get more Calm Mind boosts, and a full paralysis can be annoying. It can just sit there and wall all day. Not to mention it pairs well with Steelix and Poliwrath. Utterly broken and to overpowered for the metagame. Sorry if it looks like ranting. To conclude, I feel Cress needs to go.

    Nidoqueen is pretty damn strong too. 112 Special Attack accounting Sheer Force is great. Not to mention it's got great coverage in its STABs alone, plus Thunderbolt and much more. It's simply too powerful. It basically screams "If you don't have a Mesprit/Uxie, you're done!". That aside, it's got good bulk to take a hit too. It is pretty broken.

    Well, that aside, Piloswine seems like a really good Pokemon. Thanks to Eviolite, it's got some massive bulk, even enough to take a special hit despite its initially miserable Special Defense. Ground and Ice provide good coverage together, so it's pretty good. 100 Attack isn't the most impressive Attack ever, but for a more defensively inclined Pokemon, it's pretty good. The bulk, as I said before, is amazing. It can even take Escavalier's Megahorn from my past experience. Earthquake and Icicle Crash are nice. And Ice Shard too, for priority. It's a really good Pokemon in this meta.

    Tauros is VERY underrated. With Sheer Force+LO it's a very strong Pokemon. Rock Climb is very powerful. It also boasts QuakeSlide, which is awesome. Fire Blast says "Tangrowth, Steelix, and Esca are nothing". Very good from my experience.

    EDIT: Also, it seems as though these people will never realize that Dusknoir isn't THAT good. It's sadly outclassed, but these people keep using it.

    And Durant is a pretty awesome Pokemon in RU. I have no idea to why it isn't used more.
  17. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
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    One pokemon that is REALLY underated is pinsir. With Mold Breaker it can break through sturdys and Levitators and Bug/Ground coverage is excellent. It is similar to mamoswine in that it has very few offensive switch ins. After a SD there are not many pokemon that can switch into it at all.

    The best part about it is that it immediately threatens cresselia, so you can usually get a SD boost in right there or put pressure on your opponent's team.
  18. Valentine

    Valentine ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ
    is a Tutor

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    This has been a really fun test so far, i'm having a lot of success with hazardbalance. I can attribute most of my wins to Accelgor. Spikes are ridiculous in this tier, and SashGor can practically guarantee all three layers. RU has great spinblockers in Rotom-N, Spiritomb, and Golurk. Rotom-N in particular can threaten out the tier's best spinner, Kabu, with Volt Switch, which maintains momentum after you spinblock. Accelgor not only provides Spikes support for your team's sweeper, but it also checks some of RU's most threatening pokemon like Sceptile, Slowking, Cresselia, Absol, Lilligant, Tangrowth, Uxie, Moltres (assuming HP Rock), Kabutops (assuming Focus Blast), and much more. Its blazing 427 speed outpaces positive natured base 80 scarfers like Gallade, Medicham, and Mespirit. You don't even need to run a +speed nature to outpace the tier's fastest non-scarf sweeper, Sceptile. I'm not going to give you my EV spread or set, but i'll give you the best one from the site ^-^

    [​IMG]
    Accelgor @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Sticky Hold
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    -Spikes
    -Final Gambit
    -Bug Buzz
    -Focus Blast / HP Rock


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Yeah, I know it is NeverUsed, not even ranked in the RU Usable Pokemon thread, and 'much worse than Drapion', but hear me out. Skuntank is a great pokemon in RU. Access to Taunt allows it to shut down a plethora of the tier's walls and set up mons. This allows you to beat things like Uxie, Mespirit, Clefable, Spiritomb, Dusks, Cresselia, hell, even things like Sceptile one on one. What's more, after you shut your opponent down, you can hit it with a Pursuit on the swap. That definitely hurts coming from Skunk's respectable base 93 attack. Skuntank has an easy time switching straight into Cress' STAB Psychic, or Ice Beam, then Taunting on the T-wave, and scoring a huge amount with Pursuit on the switch. Pursuit also allows you to trap ghost types like Rotom-N and Golurk, which opens up the possibility of spinning yourself. Sucker Punch (which Drapion does not receive) is an excellent priority move, which gets a handy STAB boost. Skantank also has access to Fire Blast, which penalizes pokemon like Steelix, Escavalier, and Klinklang if they try and get sassy. Skunk also has an excellent ability in the form of Aftermath, which can come in handy in both normal game and clutch situations.

    I made this set quite awhile ago in NU, and i've never seen anyone else run it. It's about time I share the powerful BlackGlasses Skunk.

    [​IMG]
    Skuntank @ BlackGlasses
    Trait: Aftermath
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpAtk) / Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
    -Sucker Punch
    -Pursuit
    -Crunch / Fire Blast
    -Taunt

    If you don't like the whole BlackGlasses thing, Lum Berry is a fantastic alternative item. As I already mentioned, Fire Blast can be used over Crunch to hit things like Excav, Steelix, and Klinklang.
  19. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    This is going to be kinda random, but Lum Berry is one of the top items at the moment, especially with Cresselia in the tier. Thunder Wave is super common nowadays, since stuff like Cresselia, Uxie, Qwilfish, Slowking, Lanturn, and many more all carry the move. It's also kind of necessary for things like Durant, if you don't want it to get crippled by Cresselia. It's extremely effective for sweepers such as Absol and Gallade as well, especially with all of the Dusknoir usage, since they can evade Will-O-Wisp (-.-). It's also great if your team needs something to take on Smeargle. Something like Lum Berry Drapion can easily prevent Smeargle from getting up any hazards if Smeargle uses Spore. Anyways, yeah, with all of the Cresselia Twave teams around as well as the usual amount of Toxic, Sleep Powder, & Will-O-Wisp, Lum Berry is extremely effective.

    Anyways with even more time passing with Cresselia in the tier, it's being used way more. Now I see it on nearly every team. Without stuff like Lum Berry Durant, I'd usually be sacrificing a mon to paralysis which is not good. People's arguments in the suspect thread that Cresselia was too centralizing are becoming true from my experiences.

    [​IMG]
  20. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    Im going to agree with Dittocrow that Lum Berry is a very useful item in this metagame for a multitude of sweepers such as Durant, Absol, and Gallade. While the power drop from giving up say, life orb is pretty noticable at times, it also gives said sweeper the ability to simply set up in the face of many defensive Pokemon such as Cresselia, Qwilfish, and Lanturn, all of which are pretty big defensive threats in the RU tier. Lum berry also gives these Pokemon insurance against things like random scald burns and tbolt paralysis that would otherwise not just stop your sweep, but also piss you off a ton. I often use at least one Pokemon with lum berry to stop Smeargle leads as well, usually my favorite set, offensive lead uxie, who can still take most of the hits it has to take, hit significantly harder, spread paralysis with twave, and set Stealth Rock as well as screw up offensive teams that rely on Smeargle pretty badly. So yeah. Lum Berry is a cool item for multiple purposes and can end up saving your ass much more than you would initially think, it really deserves more usage!
  21. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    DittoCrow, Cresselia may be centralizing, but to what extent? (ie is it overcentralizing?) For any big threat, the metagame will accommodate through a shift in tactics or Pokemon usage. Is opting for Lum Berry or Escavalier, Absol, etc such a distasteful or intolerable shift seen in RU meta?

    I have been laddering, and I still stand by my original stance on Cresselia - it makes RU offense not so stupidly easy any more, and I find the various mons that are coming out in the limelight to effectively wallbreak stall cores a nice shift for RU.
  22. Leman

    Leman

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    Lum Berry has a very profound negative effect actually. Without a boosting item Pokemon like Absol and Drapion do very little damage to Cresselia without Swords Dance boosts. I know LO Night Slash from Absol does like 40%, so I'd imagine a +2 Night Slash would only manage like 60%. Meaning Cresselias got the time to just Thunder Wave again. And switch out with half it's health which is more than enough to come back and Moonlight on something wimpy. Or if you switch in on a Thunder Wave you can set up and get paralyzed again or just fire off an attack Cress can easily sponge and then get paralyzed. And a paralyzed Durant is pretty useless.

    I feel like Lum Berry/Substitute is better on Pokemon that Cress would come in on and try to wall, like Gallade, Klinklang or Sceptile or something. Which gives you two free turns, the switchin turn and the turn where Cress tries to Paralyze. That allows Gallade to boost and then 2hko or cripple with Night Slash.
  23. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    Well, Cresselia walls a massive portion of the metagame, severely limiting the number of options you can use on both offensive and defensive teams. I'm tired of using Durant / Escavalier / Taunt Drapion / Crawdaunt etc. on every offensive team, especially because they're walled by Poliwrath which pretty much forces you to use another mon to wear down the core. Cresselia makes stuff like Seismitoad and Ludicolo a hassle to use, since they're basically dead weight against it; many other Pokemon suffer from the same problem, and I don't think this is really a good effect on the metagame. If Cresselia is removed, a huge amount of Pokemon are going to become viable again which is a good thing imo. Though soon we'll see how hail effects the metagame :s.
  24. SilentVerse

    SilentVerse Into the New World
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    We're gonna cancel this test because Hail has been unbanned from UU, and it's being allowed in RU and NU as well. I'll be posting a new np thread in a bit so you guys know what's happening.
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