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np: RU stage 16 - Ding Dong The Witch is Dead

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Molk, Apr 1, 2013.

  1. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    Hey guys, welcome to the RU General Metagame Discussion! This thread is basically used to sum up RU in a nutshell. Sharing your knowledge is a great way to get involved and help the community. The goal is to create good discussion to educate players and keep track of the common trends. Here are some things that should be discussed:

    • New Stage - If there is a new round, make some predictions on what the metagame will be like or comment on the changes.
    • Suspect Testing - If you believe that anything is broken, post about it and why you think it deserves a suspect test.
    • Metagame trends - What are the most common or effective strategies? Are there any Pokemon that you think will rise in usage?
    • Top threats - What should the main priorities be when considering a team for RU?
    • Playstyles - Which are most effective? Are there any that cannot succeed?
    • Cores - What are some popular or solid cores? Why do they work so well, and what can be used to beat them?
    • Underrated Pokemon - Just because a Pokemon isn't used much doesn't mean its bad! There are plenty of hidden gems scattered throughout low RU, NU, PU, and possibly even Little Cup!
    • New sets - If you have a unique set that you've had success with recently, share it!

    So anyways, we probably all know that while Nidoqueen wasn't banned last suspect round, she recently moved up to UU by usage, changing the metagame in the process. Many people would say that Nidoqueen leaving has left us with a completely balanced tier, others would say that RU was balanced even before Nidoqueen left the tier, and still others would say that there are still threats in the metagame worth suspecting. For this suspect round, we're going to be deciding on whether the latter is true or not, and if something DOES need to be suspected, what is it?

    For example: Some players think that hail might deserve another suspect test; if your one of these players, this is the perfect thread to voice your opinion on whether hail deserves to be suspected, and why. This goes for any other Pokemon as well, if you think a certain Pokemon/playstyle still needs to be a given a suspect test, don't be afraid to voice your opinion here!

    Because there were some posts in the last np thread regarding the current metagame before we decided that there should be a new one, I'll be moving all of those posts here so we can still discuss them.

    This suspect round will either end about three weeks after a suspect is determined if that happens and/or there are major metagame shifts caused by Dream World released/tier changes.

    Be sure to keep this discussion civil, and also remember that if we decide theres a definite suspect, good posts here will contribute to recieving a spot on the council!

    And lastly: <Honko> how about be sure to enjoy the awesome tier and only think about potential suspects if the meta sucks

    Let's get this started!

    Also heres the (admittedly silly) song!

    [youtube]PHQLQ1Rc_Js[/youtube]
    Double01 likes this.
  2. speed ghilliesniper

    speed ghilliesniper

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    No new drops, I was looking forward to using Houndoom too :(. And I typed this up for the other thread but it got closed so this is the best place to put it.

    The drops have no relevance I think, they can still be used so if they still have a niche they can still fulfill it.

    Anyways, basically everything defensive that was slower than Nidoqueen will rise in usage, along with offensive things that couldn't OHKO her. Defensive mons such as Tangrowth and Lanturn that suffered the wraith of her STAB attacks and things like Galvantula and non HP Water Accelgor who couldn't muscle through her and were OHKO'd in return. Durant no longer has to run Iron Head so it'll have even less checks now depending on that last move so yay for the psycho ant.

    Magmorter might rise in usage to fill Nidoqueen's niche as a special attacker but he has that nasty Stealth Rock weakness and a worse defensive typing and bulk which doesn't allow it to check random things. Uxie MIGHT drop a bit in usage being as how it was one of Nidoqueens only counters but it's still so good it shouldn't matter much since it's still an amazing mon in the meta, plus it doesn't have to invest into speed now to outrun Nidoqueen so it can afford to invest more in bulk.

    On the whole bulky offense took a shot and pretty much any offensive team who used Nidoqueen as a glue will suffer while stall teams might start to become more viable as people realise the supposed #1 threat to stall is out of the tier. Toxic Spikes just got a crap ton better since most teams #1 way to remove them, and Hail of all things by that virtue got better with things like Stallrein no longer having to use Toxic and the residual damage stacking up much quicker.

    So ya, about the same amount of balance maybe a smidge more stall teams cropping up. Hail, meh, wait until either late this stage or stage 17 until it gets used more and tweaked and playtested, as of now 5% usage isn't screaming broken to me but then again the ladder is notoriously cock eyed with things like Sandslash and Dusknoir getting big usage.
    New Light and Double01 like this.
  3. complete legitimacy

    complete legitimacy Honko's Happy Funtime With Men
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    I think this stage is gonna be the most fun I've had in RU for a long time. I don't think I've ever felt this way since Gothitelle was banned from UU, and thus RU. I just feel as though a lot more things will be good now, most notably defensive balance and full stall as far as playstyles go. The only remotely controversial things in the tier now are hail and maybe Moltres, as only now are we really feeling the effects of having something that has only two real counters that are actually good, but both of them lack reliable recovery and are susceptible to all forms of hazards. There were some positives to come out of the Nidoqueen metagame, and one of those is Wish Gallade. Ironically, Moltres is one of the only special attackers in the metagame that can boast the ability to actually beat Wish Gallade, because it actually has excellent typing that leaves it without a weakness to Electric-, Fire-, Fighting-, or Grass-type attacks, which is extremely helpful to counter a lot of special attackers that use those types of attacks. It also has Will-O-Wisp so that it can shut down physical attackers on the switch, including its most common switch-in Spiritomb. Obviously being one of the few good Wish users in the tier gives Gallade some kind of niche in this role, but Gallade is just a really good Pokemon in general too.

    Set (open)
    Gallade (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Steadfast
    EVs: 248 HP / 244 SDef / 16 Spd
    Careful Nature
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Drain Punch
    - Will-O-Wisp


    Now that I've reflected on the past metagame, it's time to look ahead to the new metagame. I've only played one game in this new metagame (in which SV got donked by Knock Off Escavalier in hail), but I think that Flareon will be a great Pokemon again like it was in the BW1 metagame. Flareon is similar to Gallade in that it's a really good special wall that can take care of almost every special attacker in the metagame, but it's also an extremely good check to Moltres, although it's burdened with a Stealth Rock weakness. It struggled a bit in the past because Nidoqueen was omnipresent and it obviously wiped the floor with Flareon, as well as the fact that more offensive teams meant that it could be easily worn down due to its Stealth Rock weakness. However, without Nidoqueen in the picture Flareon can serve a similar role to Gallade in that they can both pass Wishes while checking a large portion of the metagame's top special attackers. Flareon also can use Heal Bell though, which makes it an arguably better choice on a stall team, which are poised to be better in this metagame. It's also a better hail check than Gallade and can possibly beat SubToxic Walrein and Glaceon with Heal Bell, prediction, and maybe a bit of luck. However, Gallade has better synergy with Regirock, and that deals with the few special attackers that Gallade has trouble with while being a grateful Wish recipient.
    Double01 likes this.
  4. MicfiJasan

    MicfiJasan

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    Something that's caught my mind the past couple of tier shifts is the loss of grounded Poison-types. I remember people saying that Toxic Spikes are practically unviable in RU due to the prevalence of these grounded Poison-types, but with Nidoqueen, Roselia, and Scolipede now out of RU (at least in usage), we now only have 3 Toxic Spikes absorbers with usage in RU range (Qwilfish, Amoonguss, and Drapion). So, are Toxic Spikes viable in RU now?
    Double01 likes this.
  5. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    I'd say Toxic Spikes are more viable in BW2 RU than they ever were before, but still sorta mediocre as a whole. Although Nidoqueen just moved up to UU, it wasnt just the best tspike absorber in the tier, but it was also arguably the best Toxic Spikes SETTER in the tier in my opinion, which kinda nerfs tspikes a bit despite her leave. Out of the three Grounded Poison-types that are still in RU range, both Amoonguss and Qwilfish have the potential to last the entire match thanks to good resists and defensive stats, making it very challenging to keep Toxic Spikes up for more than a few turns. Amoonguss has also become incredibly common on the ladder recently, while both Pokemon see decent amounts of usage in tournament play, making it even harder to consistently keep Toxic Spikes up. Drapion doesnt have as much longetivity as the other two grounded Poison Types, but still has enough to take a few hits and absorb Toxic Spikes at least once over the course of the match. Plus, Drapion's pretty good at eliminating the Ghost-types that block say, Cryogonal from spinning away the Toxic Spikes, yet another way the opponent can keep them off the field during the match. Lastly, while Roselia and Scolipede are no longer NU, both Pokemon are still usable in the tier and both of them are perfectly viable, so both of them are still perfectly good options for keeping Toxic Spikes away.

    All in All, Toxic Spikes probably arent almost completely unviable like they were in the last metagame, but they still struggle to make their presence known in my opinion, between all the Pokemon that can get rid of them and/or are completely immune to them. Although Toxic Spikes probably still have the potential on certain playstyles, most notably Hail. Most of the Grounded Poison-types available in RU arent going to enjoy taking a 100% accurate Blizzard to face, especially considering quite a few of them are weak to Ice-type moves, and the damage between Hail and Toxic Spikes will wear out Pokemon with reliable recovery quickly.
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  6. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest I Love Goomy
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    Yeah, tbh Toxic Spikes still suck as Amoonguss and Qwilfish are pretty good Pokemon anyways and they will be sure to make T-Spikes hard to keep on the field. Despite Scolipede and Roselia dropping for some stupid reason, they're both allowed still in RU and are awesome spikers, so they both are hindrances to T-Spikes as well anyways (and Scolipede is like on every one of my teams, so good luck keeping T-Spikes up against me, lol)

    Man, how I wish Mismagius or Dusclops (or Houndoom too!) would drop. They'd be real fun to use in the tier...

    Anyways, here's a cool set I've been using in RU lately (mostly for the fun factor), but it's still a really cool set.

    [​IMG]

    Mesprit @ Choice Band
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Fire Punch
    - U-turn
    - Trick / ThunderPunch

    Mesprit's often overlooked 105 Attack make her a viable user of CB imo, and she has enough coverage to use it well. Now before you tell me this is just a worse Medicham / Gallade, Mesprit does have enough perks for her to stand out. U-turn is a pretty cool move Mesprit has in her arsenal and it pretty much deals with Slowking and Absol pretty damn well. Mesprit is often seen running special attacks in most of her sets, but she can do some good damage to things like Clefable. Also, Zen Headbutt, being her STAB, quite surprisingly 2HKO's a lot of Pokemon who don't resist it. Fire Punch is solid, and hits Tangrowth and Steelix decently hard (Oh and it fucks over Escavalier). Although ThunderPunch is pretty cool too 'cause it smashes Slowking and Mandibuzz. Overall I really like using this set and it's been surprisingly good.

    Anyways, I'm really looking forward to this Queenless metagame!
    Double01 likes this.
  7. col49

    col49
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    Well I have to say I'm pretty pleasantly surprised 'Queen is gone, while I'd definitely agree it wasn't broken it certainly made team-building a lot less fun =( That being said, without 'Queen in the tier a lot of more obscure 'mons to see usage, which imo is a good quality for a metagame to have haha. For instance, just on speculation Gurdurr is looking to be a really neat 'mon in the current metagame, being a pretty solid bulky attacker overall and the biggest reason for it to not run Thunderpunch (easily its most generally effective coverage option, despite Amoonguss) for coverage leaving the tier meaning that it no longer has to struggle with letting big threats like Slowking and Moltres in totally for free. Anywho, I'm pretty satisfied with this metagame for what my opinion's worth, and while hail is a little iffy for me this is definitely looking to be one of the nicer metas RU has seen in some time n_n
    Double01 likes this.
  8. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]

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    ya this metagame is a lot of fun :) Queen leaving the tier means that loads more pokes get a chance to shine, such as gurdurr, primeape, tangrowth and steelix at least more than before. I've also found offensive rhydon to be an excellent pokemon in this metagame. I've been using LO rhydon, and it has been nothing but brilliant so far. LO eq hits ridiculously hard, 2HKO'ing amoonguss and quagsire with ease iirc, and megahorn is such a great coverage move, 1HKO'ing slowking and 2HKO'ing tangrowth among others. Rock coverage is also a lot better and easier to spam with queen gone, as there are much fewer rock resists on people's teams since queen was probably the easily the most common rock resist. Although Rhydon loses a fuckton of bulk from eviolite, rhydon still easily handles entei, choice locked electric types, some moltres(subroost mainly), it can take 1 CB megahorn from esca, take 1 cb drudd outrage and can tank CB aggron head smash comfortably as well. Rhydon also has the ability to straight up wreck volt turn, which I suspect might rise in popularity now that queen, which resisted both u-turn and is immune to volt switch, has gone and thanks to rhydon's immunity to electric and excellent physical bulk it can deal with common u-turners such as scyther quite easily.

    TL;DR use rhydon more.
    Double01 likes this.
  9. Spirit

    Spirit
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    This was pre-nidoqueen meta, but mola has gotten so much better since then. Mola along with clefable are the two things that glue my team together. Their wishing passing abilities are by far the best RU has to offer. Wish + Regenerator is awesome, it allows her to simultaneously support her team and heal herself at the same time. I really think it's about time mola hops on over to RU. Her unmatched ability to wall almost every physical attacker to hell and back is amazing. She does have trouble with setup sweepers. I fixed this problem by pairing her up with whimsicott who can force the control of the battle in my favor. Whimsi can encore a setup move than u-turn(they either switch or stay in, so I always get momentum regardless of their decision) to my phaser and rack up hazard damage. So in all honesty, despite the fact that she has an issue with sub users, a little bit of team support goes a long way. Next to poliwrath, she's probably the bulky Water-type of choice in this meta. I find that using waterfall instead of scald allows her to break more subs. So always capitalize on her higher offensive stat in that regard.
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  10. NfskMjmMal

    NfskMjmMal

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    Alomomola is great. 252+ Life Orb Gallade can't even 2HKO with Close Combat, a testament to how physically bulky it is. Pretty much every offensive poke in the tier heals ~90% of its HP or more with Alo's massive 277 HP Wishes. I run Scald on mine instead of Waterfall, since especially in RU, Waterfall really doesn't do much and things that are crippled by Burn and things that are crippled by Toxic are in very different categories. Plus, the attacking move is partially there so Alo isn't Taunt bait. About being set-up fodder, I can kind of do hazard control against physical ones with Scald, but it's also partially about recognizing the set up and having a partner to deal with it or sending in something better than Alomomola against a setup sweeper.
    Double01 likes this.
  11. Chenkovsky

    Chenkovsky Hula's waifu.
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    I have more to say on this but currently not the time.

    Now I have a question as it says in the op nidoqueen was banned by usage, but even in the three month stats slowking has higher usage. By the term usage are you referring to its' usage in UU alongside in RU?
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  12. speed ghilliesniper

    speed ghilliesniper

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    Nidoqueen was used in UU enough that it shifted up a tier and became a UU pokemon, the RU usage had nothing to do with it.
    Double01 likes this.
  13. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    So, after playing about 100+ matches in the new meta, i've found the combination of Acrobatics Drifblim, Swellow, and Spikes to be absolutely amazing in the new metagame. Drifblim and Swellow are already threatening enough on their own, but when paired together they make quite the formidable offensive core, wearing down each others common checks to help the other to sweep late game easily. Drifblim usually starts things off, having plenty of opportunities to switch in thanks to its multiple resistances and immunities and decent bulk (despite its reputation for having pathetic defenses, Drifblim's bulk is about on par with Braviary, which isnt bad at all tbh). After Drifblim gets itself into the match it usually immediately uses Acrobatics, which hits incredibly hard first turn with the Flying Gem boost even with Drifblim's average base 80 Attack. After the initial Acrobatics Drifblim becomes the fastest Pokemon in the tier by far, outpacing things such as Scarf Manectric with ease, from here Drifblim can either continue to use Acrobatics and attempt to sweep, Burn the opponent (possibly a Rock- or Steel-type!) with Will-O-Wisp, or use Substitute to block things like Thunder Wave and paralysis that could end Drifblim's reign of terror early. When Drifblim's about to die, it can go out with a bang with Destiny Bond, automatically taking down the Pokemon that scored the KO against it with it (once again, possibly a Rock-or Steel type!). After Drifblim's work is done, Swellow can usually come in, activiate its Toxic Orb, and clean up the rest of the opponents team uninterrupted with its powerful STABs. Entry Hazards are especially good with this core, as both Swellow and Drifblim score a bunch of OHKOs they wouldnt be able to normally with simply Stealth Rock+1 layer of Spikes, not to mention the vast majority of Pokemon used to check these two are both grounded and lack reliable recovery, making them incredibly easy to wear down. As an added bonus, Drifblim can block Rapid Spin with some prediction, and can OHKO Cryogonal with Acrobatics/Force a double down vs Kabutops with Destiny Bond in return. Of course this core isn't without its flaws, with Swellow and Drifblim sharing common weaknesses to Ice-, Electric-, and Stealth Rock, making things such as Scarf Electrics quite annoying when not properly prepared for. The weakness to Stealth Rock is quite annoying when using this core as well, especially with Swellow switching in and out a lot, so i'd strongly recommend using a Rapid Spinner or at least some way of keeping hazards off of your side of the field when using this core. Nonthenless, these two Pokemon work really well together, and while they need some support to bring out their full potential, the payoff is definitely worth it imo, try it out if you get the chance!

    Sets (open)

    [​IMG]
    Drifblim @ Flying Gem
    Trait: Unburden
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Acrobatics
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Substitute
    - Destiny Bond

    [​IMG]
    Swellow @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Protect / Quick Attack
    - Facade
    - Brave Bird
    - U-turn
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  14. sickweare

    sickweare

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    Molk, imo wouldn't it be better to give Drifblim an Adamant nature, as its speed will be boosted really high regardless after unburden and it could use the power boost. I don't see what else that would be outrunning besides other unburden users, and they don't do very well against Drifblim. This is all just from what I think of course, so if there's a reason it should be jolly>adamant then what would it be out of curiosity?
    Double01 likes this.
  15. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]

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    Jolly over Adamant on blim allows you to kill off adamant kabutops, which is by far the most common variant, with Destiny Bond before it can kill drifblim off in a double-down. Because Kabutops is a common check to swellow on offensive teams and can also spin away spikes and stealth rock which swellow loves, eliminating it with blim makes it much easier to win and you need a jolly nature to do this.
    Double01 likes this.
  16. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    aside from the ability to force a double down vs kabutops that SS234 mentioned, running Jolly Drifblim also allows me to outrun threats such as Adamant Gallade, Adamant Hitmonlee (i can switch in on close combat/mach punch to stop unburden from activating then acro before it can stone edge), Modest Magmortar, Jolly Absol (so i can play mindgames against it with sub+wisp), Modest Mesprit, and pretty much anything usable in RU that runs a +speed nature and has 70+ base Speed pre Unburden. In my opinion its really a matter of personal preference, if you dont think you need Drifblim to specifically outrun these threats, then Adamant's certainly an option, but i think Drifblim needs the extra Speed for my specific team.
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  17. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold hommies
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    I'm going to post a set that i make with the help of Molk recently, this set should work amazingly well on the right now meta. This set help luring a ton of mons such Escavalier (always won against Esca any version, Occa berry too), tanks Durant +1 w/ LO and HKOed with Hidden Power Fire, helps to down another steel types such Steelix. Finally, Giga Drain is choosen to Kabutops, Rhydon, Sandlash & another stuff, just being a better lure all-round and because isnt at all bulk like the another Uxie sets with support moves: T-wave, Heal Bell, U-turn etc. Try this set guys.


    [​IMG]
    Uxie @ Tanga Berry
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 140 HP / 140 Spd / 228 SAtk
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
    - Stealth Rock
    - Psychic
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Giga Drain

    228 SpA Uxie Hidden Power Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Durant: 372-440 (144.18 - 170.54%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    228 SpA Uxie Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Escavalier: 200-236 (58.3 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    228 SpA Uxie Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Occa Berry Escavalier: 100-118 (29.15 - 34.4%)

    228 SpA Uxie Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Escavalier: 148-176 (43.14 - 51.31%) -- 62.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    defensive calcs:

    +1 252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant X-Scissor vs. 140 HP / 0+ Def Tanga Berry Uxie: 246-290 (75.46 - 88.95%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ Atk Choice Band Escavalier Megahorn vs. 140 HP / 0+ Def Tanga Berry Uxie: 241-285 (73.92 - 87.42%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Megahorn vs. 140 HP / 0+ Def Tanga Berry Uxie: 144-172 (44.17 - 52.76%) -- 18.36% chance to 2HKO
    Double01 likes this.
  18. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    Grass-types

    This metagame is pretty fun, though I've only played about 70 matches so far. Nidoqueen was either at the #1 or #2 spot for months, and it's departure makes it so that a lot of Pokemon do not have to worry about seeing it often. One of the types of Pokemon that benefit the most from this are Grass-types, both slow and fast. Nidoqueen had little trouble switching into defensive Grass Pokemon, while it could usually take a hit from the offensive ones and OHKO with Sludge Wave or Fire Blast. Grass-types have a little more room for success now.

    The two I've tested the most so far were Amoonguss and Lilligant. Amoonguss is really good at absorbing hits, and it's really frustrating when it puts a Pokemon to sleep AND paralyzes another. It's also a great check to Lilligant and Sceptile which have been gaining some usage lately. Lilligant was the other Grass mon that I used. I used an offensive Quiver Dance set which is extremely hard to overcome once your team is weakened. I actually had Amoonguss on the same team as Lilligant, so because Amoonguss already had a sleep inducing move, I swapped out Sleep Powder on Lilligant for Aromatherapy. This aided the whole team and helped Lilligant set up against bulkier teams with something like Toxic Clefable or Audino, which was very useful in my experiences, though at times I missed removing a threat such as Cryogonal with Sleep Powder. I also tried out Sunny Day, though I rarely saw any hail teams so I barely used it. Other Grass-types that I think gained potential are Ferroseed and Roselia, who seem like pretty good Spikes setters.

    Escavalier

    Escavalier is one of the most threatening Pokemon in RU. The CB set is very hard to switch into; you can even wear down Emboar with constant Megahorns if you have a solid switch-in. The other great thing about Escavalier is its typing and bulk which is really important in this metagame because of the popularity of Pokemon like Druddigon, Sceptile, Cinccino, and Accelgor. I chose a set to capitalize on this trait, since I wanted something to take a lot of hits and still be able to threaten the opponent. CB Escavalier wasn't doing the trick since it had no recovery and got worn down a bit too easily from entry hazards and Focus Blasts and the like. Thus I decided to try this set out which wasn't that bad.

    [​IMG]
    Escavalier (M) @ Chesto Berry
    Trait: Overcoat
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Megahorn
    - Iron Head
    - Rest
    - Pursuit

    After Escavalier takes enough damage, I use rest to give me a healthy Escavalier. Escavalier can check a lot of Pokemon, so this was especially useful for teams that had both Cinccino and Druddigon or something or the sort. Chesto Berry also enables you to bluff a Choice Band, allowing Escavalier to fake that it's locked into Pursuit (or another move), then give Absol (insert other example here) a surprise Megahorn.
    Double01 likes this.
  19. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    You know, Aromatherapy Lilligant sounds really interesting, from my experiences using Lilligant she did have quite a bit of trouble with status, especially paralysis (while Giga Drain restores poison damage, it still starts adding up over time after a few turns). With Aromatherapy Lilligant could use a free turn to rid not just herself, but her whole team of status, possibly turning a failure into a victory. Another move i've thought of running over Sleep Powder on Lilligant is Substitute. Substitute protects Lilligant from status just like Aromatherapy, but can also be used to ease prediction, give Lilligant more chances to set up, and stop Pokemon such as Extremespeed Entei from revenge killing her as long as the Substitute is up. After enough Quiver Dances, Lilligant's subs will become almost impossible to outright break with special attacks, while Giga Drain would restore any hp lost from making the Substitute when used, furthering sub's utility.

    This, I absolutely love Ferroseed in this new meta, and its kinda weird to think that there was a time where i wouldnt even think of putting it on a team tbh .-.. I think Ferroseed is easily one of the best defensive spikers in RU at the moment, using a combination of its excellent mixed bulk and typing to find multiple opportunities to set up Spikes, while being able to discourage other Pokemon from switching in on and/or setting up on it with a combination of Leech Seed and Thunder Wave, these two moves also give it some more defensive utility outside of simply setting Spikes, allowing it to wear down defensive Pokemon while being able to switch in on and cripple faster, offensive Pokemon respectively. Another cool thing about Ferroseed is its ability to beat both Kabutops and Cryogonal one on one. Kabutops cant hope to break through Ferroseed if it lacks Superpower while it gets worn down via a combination of Iron Barbs, Leech Seed, Gyro Ball, and possible Life Orb recoil over time. Cryogonal has no real way of threatening Ferroseed bar the rare Hidden Power Fire, and simply gets OHKO'd by Gyro Ball in return. Furthermore, Ferroseed discourages the use of Rapid Spin with its Iron Barbs ability, and can even stop a very weak Kabutops and Cryogonal from Rapid Spinning before they go down, as Rapid Spin's hazard removing effect doesn't activate if the user is KO'd by Iron Barbs the same turn. As for teammates: i've been using Ferroseed with various Flying-types including Swellow, Drifblim, Moltres, and Braviary. All 4 of these appreciate the Spikes and Paralysis support that Ferroseed provides, and also appreciate Ferroseed's ability to take on many of the Rock- and Steel-types in the tier that might give them trouble, such as Steelix, Kabutops, Rhydon, Aggron, and Regirock. Ferroseed can switch into all 4 of these with ease, and can slowly wear them down over the course of the match with repeated Leech Seeds, making it easier for one of the Flying-types i previously mentioned to break through the opposing team. Ferroseed can use all of them bar Kabutops as Spikes fodder, as well.
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  20. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest I Love Goomy
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    Those two sets look really cool, I oughtta try 'em. I'm really liking the Queenless metagame right now, and it's pretty awesome. Here are two sets I really like using right now.

    [​IMG]

    Samurott (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Naive Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Megahorn / Superpower

    Mixed Samurott is pretty awesome and is pretty difficult to wall overall. Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, and HP Grass have pretty good coverage together and hit fairly hard, with not many things walling it. Megahorn ensures Slowking is no problem, and Megahorn+Ice Beam makes Grass-types think twice about coming in. Superpower, on the other hand, nails Ferroseed and Clefable. Samurott is not that fast, but he has enough speed to suffice, outspeeding a lot of walls and Absol, which is a good benchmark to hit. Samurott is overall a great wallbreaker that can be really tough to face.

    [​IMG]

    Scolipede (M) @ Salac Berry
    Trait: Swarm
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Substitute
    - Swords Dance
    - Megahorn
    - Aqua Tail

    While Scolipede may have recently dropped to NU, that by no means he is bad. Truth be told, Scolipede is just a beast; the Spiker and all out SD sets are pretty awesome as is, but this set in particular is really awesome and underrated. It combines a lot of Scolipede's positive points to make it a manly sweeper that can really wreck up teams. Substitute allows Scolipede to evade status and Sucker Punch while if he spams it to Swarm level, Salac activates making Scolipede even faster and having a stronger Megahorn. SD can work too and grab the boost to get the needed power. Megahorn and Aqua Tail provide great coverage together, being resisted only by Poliwrath iirc (and Poliwrath walls every physical attacker on the planet bar Sceptile). Scolipede hits hard and is fast; most of the time you only need one boost and you have yourself in a neat win condition. This thing is just awesome and I think it should be used more (and lol this thing's NU status is highly questionable).

    Not to mention both sets I posted work really well together, quite interestingly enough.

    EDIT:

    Speaking of which, yeah, Roselia is a pretty good Spiker that I really like using in this meta. It can take on a lot of common special attackers such as Sceptile, Lilligant, Rotom-C, Omastar, Galvantula, and a lot more. Roselia really finds a lot of opportunities to set up Spikes and fits well on teams that need to deal with special threats while also appreciating Spikes support. It can also catch Kabutops and Sandslash with Giga Drain if they try to come in and spin on Roselia. A good defensive core I've been thinking about using lately is Poliwrath, Roselia, and Spiritomb; they have really good defensive synergy together and work really well, as Poliwrath and Spiritomb both benefit from Roselia's Spikes, with Poliwrath Circle Throwing opponents around racking up the damage and Spiritomb spinblocking preventing them from going away. I also like using Roselia with Moltres because it can handle Lanturn and Regirock while the Spikes help Moltres punch holes in the team more easily. Rhydon works really well too, they have nice synergy, can tank a lot of hits, and set up hazards for the team. Overall I find Roselia to be really good and useful whenever I need it.

    Would've been nicer if Dusclops dropped though. Roselia+Dusclops would be really cool.
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  21. Brophlosion

    Brophlosion

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    Why use HP Grass over Grass Knot? jw
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  22. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    Hidden Power Grass hits Lanturn much harder than Grass Knot because of how light it is. For reference, Grass Knot hits Lanturn for a measy 40 BP, while Hidden power Grass hits Lanturn for 70 BP, possibly 2hkoing it after Stealth Rock damage with the onsite spread. Outside of this, the two moves are pretty much interchangeable.
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  23. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]

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    HP Grass hits Lanturn much harder than Grass Knot, since Lanturn is very light. HP Grass still gets all the relevant 2HKO's as well, such as on Poliwrath.

    Edit: bs ninja'd by molk

    Here is a poke that I think is also really good in this metagame:
    [​IMG]
    Rotom-Frost @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Thunderbolt
    - Blizzard
    - Substitute
    - Pain Split

    SubSplit is such an amazing set on rotom-f in this metagame. For one, the metagame is becoming slower with nidoqueen leaving, and rotom-f typically straight up 6-0's most stall teams since outside of things such as piloswine and HP fire cryogonal it is insanely hard to switch into due to its great STAB combo and the residual damage of hail as well as the threat of Pain Split, which can mean that special walls such as clefable can actually lose to rotom-f if they switch in. Because of this excellent wall-breaking power, it is very easy to smash through defensive cores with this set, and rotom-f also makes an excellent lure for pokes such as cryogonal, which rotom-f can considerably weaken or outright kill with pain split and tbolt, which makes it very easy to then sweep late game with a second ice type, such as scarf glaceon.

    Obviously, rotom-f pairs excellently with snover, as hail allows it to abuse 100% accuracy blizzard's, and the extra residual damage is always very nice. Pairing rotom-f up with toxic spikes from say qwilfish is also a very deadly strategy, as toxic spikes and hail damage wear down both counters to rotom-f very quickly, as well as some checks to rotom-f such as entei and scarf emboar. Again, pairing rotom-f up with a second ice type(preferably a scarfer)is very effective, as subsplit frotom weakens most blizz spammers counters to the point where they can't then counter another one.

    Overall, I've found rotom-f to be an amazing pokemon in the current metagame, especially with toxic spikes support. Its ability to destroy most defensive teams, as well as weaken almost all blizzspam counters makes subsplit frotom a great pick for any hail team imo.
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  24. Meru

    Meru
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    I took this set for a spin and it's bloody brilliant. Aside from LO Magmortar, Moltres, Typhlosion, Lilligant, and Slowking, special attackers just fold to you, and you can choose whether or not you want to wish pass or just do damage and simultaneously heal up with a strong Drain Punch, making you less predictable to switch into than normal Wish users. Having a SR resist on a special wall is such a subtle blessing, as you'll be having to switch that bastard in a lot in this tier. I paired him with Scarf Emboar for sleep absorb. The Wishes passed to him are usually for high powered Fire attacks that Gallade can't handle and easily offset the Flare Blitz recoil that adds up. Just make sure you pack Lanturn or Regirock so that you have something that can switch into Moltres. They'll appreciate the Wishes. Such a shame Gallade has such a low base HP stat. If it were a big higher, he'd be a solid counter for Landorus in OU, which is talented in and of itself.

    EDIT: Also found it important to note it's something on stall that can easily shut up Clefable without putting some awkward move into its set. Stall staple in this meta for sure.
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  25. Living So Zambian

    Living So Zambian formerly VN.
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    Damn yeah that Gallade set honestly wrecks, my hail stall honestly couldn't touch this thing since it was paired with a heal beller and the fact that it got Will O Wisp really just surprised me, overall that set is just baller. Unfortunately another of the strong special attackers in Sigilyph [honestly I think this thing was a lot better at breaking stall than Nidoqueen, I have no idea how it keeps getting overlooked] sets up all over it, so if you plan to use it on stall or whatever it might be a good idea to have a check for Sigayliph. Also Dittocrow that set on Escavalier looks like it honestly wrecks; so many Cryogonal manage to stay in and live 40 bp pursuits from CB Escavalier on the old stall I used which was really annoying but making that bluff and then Iron Heading is huge, unfortunately I'm not sure how much Pursuit will do if it does 'activate' since you lack CB [I think it did like 75-80 with CB which was huge since if SR went up Cryogonal was dead], but overall that set seems like it owns.
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