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np: RU stage 16 - Ding Dong The Witch is Dead

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Molk, Apr 1, 2013.

  1. MicfiJasan

    MicfiJasan

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2012
    Messages:
    129
    Okay, so for those who don't know I'm more of a "math behind the game" kind of guy. Recently, I've been looking at how well Pokemon can dish out/sponge hits in the metagame using a metric I call "Clicks to KO" (or CKO for short). Basically it takes the concept of the "Hits to KO", but factors in accuracy. On average, a person using Moltres will click Hurricane slightly more than 2 times for a typical 2HKO. After a bit of work, I found out that the CKO is simply the hits to KO divided by the accuracy. So in our example with a 2HKO with Hurricane, the CKO is 2/0.7=2.86. After creating a MATLAB program to run through the damage formula thousands of times, I came up with some numbers that aim to combine base attacking stats with movepool, while combining typing with bulk.

    Here are the three numbers I found for each "common" Pokemon in the tier: Offensive Clicks to KO (OCKO), Defensive Clicks to KO (DCKO), and Clicks endured Before KO (CBKO).

    A couple notes on my process:
    • I set 10 as the maximum so that immunities don't break the calculator by dividing by zero (and for reference, the Honkalculator displays up to a 9HKO).
    • To attempt to calculate for the current trend of the metagame (read: not the PS ladder) I used the Suspect Ladder's 1850 stats while using only the first set listed in the Strategydex, and only the primary slashes for those sets (though this is more for simplicity's sake).
    • The usage was cutoff at about 2.56%, a bit below the current RU cutoff. I like the number better since it is statistically unlikely that I would find anything below that usage in a random battle. I didn't go lower due to laziness mostly.
    • Due to the recent Snow Warning ban, Walrein, Glaceon, and Snover have been removed from the list (like the Viability Thread).
    • Eruption's Base Power was taken to be 75, about the power it would have at 1/2 health.
    • The OCKO result doesn't take Speed into account. It is purely on a Pokemon's ability to dish out damage.
    • The DCKO doesn't take support options into account. It is purely on a Pokemon's ability to tank hits.
    • The CBKO is an attempt to factor speed into my equations. It approximates the number of hits a Pokemon has to sponge before achieving a KO (since faster Pokemon get hit less, their scores will be lower).
    • Finally, these numbers play the percentages. So changing the percentage on a damage roll will alter the score, even if both chances are unreliable.
    OCKO (open)

    Aggron
    1.3670

    Hariyama
    1.5885

    Escavalier
    1.6402

    Magmortar
    1.6778

    Absol
    1.6851

    Entei
    1.6878

    Rhydon
    1.7099

    Medicham
    1.7182

    Typhlosion
    1.7485

    Emboar
    1.7492

    Moltres
    1.7669

    Archeops
    1.8094

    Rotom-Frost
    1.8278

    Electivire
    1.8514

    Golurk
    1.8799

    Hitmonchan
    1.9686

    Aerodactyl
    1.9745

    Druddigon
    1.9772

    Scyther
    1.9866

    Rotom
    2.0799

    Galvantula
    2.0860

    Crawdaunt
    2.0913

    Sigilyph
    2.1243

    Cinccino
    2.1451

    Mesprit
    2.1466

    Accelgor
    2.1612

    Bouffalant
    2.2376

    Drapion
    2.2991

    Omastar
    2.3012

    Durant
    2.3129

    Gallade
    2.3656

    Rotom-Mow
    2.3749

    Hitmonlee
    2.3928

    Magneton
    2.3955

    Feraligatr
    2.4303

    Kabutops
    2.4461

    Sceptile
    2.4701

    Manectric
    2.5252

    Spiritomb
    2.5897

    Sandslash
    2.6251

    Lilligant
    2.6389

    Duosion
    3.1679

    Steelix
    3.4337

    Klinklang
    3.5817

    Clefable
    3.6977

    Slowking
    3.7904

    Lanturn
    3.9398

    Quagsire
    3.9960

    Tangrowth
    4.0269

    Dusknoir
    4.0874

    Crustle
    4.0874

    Cryogonal
    4.2839

    Poliwrath
    5.0165

    Amoonguss
    5.0282

    Uxie
    5.0841

    Qwilfish
    5.2186

    Ferroseed
    5.5605

    Alomomola
    5.9100

    Miltank
    6.0264

    Whimsicott
    8.2276

    Smeargle
    10.0000

    DCKO (open)

    Ferroseed
    4.7293

    Uxie
    4.5766

    Alomomola
    4.2960

    Dusknoir
    4.1788

    Poliwrath
    4.1349

    Steelix
    4.0921

    Lanturn
    4.0548

    Slowking
    3.9251

    Miltank
    3.9090

    Tangrowth
    3.7983

    Clefable
    3.7420

    Amoonguss
    3.6732

    Quagsire
    3.6505

    Druddigon
    3.6175

    Qwilfish
    3.5644

    Bouffalant
    3.4205

    Escavalier
    3.3823

    Magneton
    3.3403

    Duosion
    3.3128

    Cryogonal
    3.2173

    Spiritomb
    3.1940

    Klinklang
    3.1458

    Crustle
    3.1008

    Whimsicott
    3.0443

    Feraligatr
    2.8108

    Mesprit
    2.7423

    Drapion
    2.6665

    Aggron
    2.6188

    Hariyama
    2.5992

    Rhydon
    2.5984

    Entei
    2.5413

    Golurk
    2.5034

    Rotom-Mow
    2.4641

    Durant
    2.4567

    Moltres
    2.4412

    Sandslash
    2.4094

    Gallade
    2.3837

    Emboar
    2.3728

    Crawdaunt
    2.3391

    Sceptile
    2.3092

    Typhlosion
    2.2908

    Magmortar
    2.2815

    Rotom
    2.1610

    Hitmonchan
    2.1372

    Sigilyph
    2.1251

    Lilligant
    2.1189

    Omastar
    2.1057

    Electivire
    2.0803

    Medicham
    2.0778

    Aerodactyl
    1.9761

    Scyther
    1.9669

    Kabutops
    1.9525

    Rotom-Frost
    1.9070

    Galvantula
    1.8895

    Hitmonlee
    1.8867

    Cinccino
    1.8654

    Manectric
    1.8493

    Accelgor
    1.8180

    Absol
    1.7242

    Archeops
    1.6896

    Smeargle
    1.6009

    CBKO (open)

    Medicham
    0.7794

    Emboar
    0.8239

    Typhlosion
    0.9230

    Archeops
    0.9406

    Entei
    1.0004

    Moltres
    1.0427

    Rotom-Frost
    1.0572

    Magmortar
    1.0613

    Aerodactyl
    1.0629

    Aggron
    1.0703

    Electivire
    1.0971

    Scyther
    1.1503

    Absol
    1.1880

    Accelgor
    1.2116

    Galvantula
    1.2391

    Cinccino
    1.2482

    Hariyama
    1.2575

    Sigilyph
    1.3230

    Rotom
    1.3353

    Rotom-Mow
    1.4051

    Rhydon
    1.4251

    Durant
    1.4530

    Hitmonchan
    1.4558

    Mesprit
    1.4874

    Golurk
    1.4950

    Drapion
    1.5286

    Manectric
    1.5326

    Sceptile
    1.5902

    Escavalier
    1.5988

    Crawdaunt
    1.6401

    Hitmonlee
    1.7517

    Druddigon
    1.7643

    Gallade
    1.7815

    Omastar
    1.8500

    Bouffalant
    1.8527

    Kabutops
    1.8620

    Lilligant
    1.9147

    Feraligatr
    1.9665

    Magneton
    1.9916

    Sandslash
    2.2767

    Spiritomb
    2.4229

    Klinklang
    3.0270

    Duosion
    3.0615

    Clefable
    3.3813

    Steelix
    3.4177

    Lanturn
    3.5747

    Slowking
    3.6840

    Tangrowth
    3.7572

    Cryogonal
    3.8052

    Dusknoir
    3.8385

    Crustle
    3.8385

    Quagsire
    3.9332

    Uxie
    4.5479

    Poliwrath
    4.6797

    Qwilfish
    4.7912

    Amoonguss
    4.9219

    Miltank
    5.4901

    Ferroseed
    5.5561

    Alomomola
    5.5616

    Whimsicott
    7.6024

    Smeargle
    9.3589

    Now before all of you blindly trust these numbers, I will admit to several flaws:

    • Choice items don't exhibit their locking capabilities.
    • Life orb recoil is missing.
    • Double-edge and Flare Blitz recoil is missing.
    • Secondary effects (e.g. Scald burns) are missing.
    • Leaf Storm and Superpower don't lower stats.
    • Some popular nonstandard sets are missing (Specs Slowking, Band Druddigon).
    • Set-up moves (Shift Gear, Quiver Dance, etc.) are unaccounted for.

    Each of these has their own issues with consistency that prevents me from including them this time. Although some (like set-up moves, Life Orb recoil, and Choice items) might be improved on in the near future.

    tl;dr Just read the line before the bulleted list and browse through the hide tags.

    PS: Sorry if the formatting sucks, my original plan yielded some sketchy results and if I'm going to make a pantsuit post in an np thread about math I want to make sure you can see the numbers.
    Scene, atomicllamas, Celever and 7 others like this.
  2. Psylink

    Psylink

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    256
    This is annoying for people who are beginning to ladder like me: Cosmic Power Sigilyph, and just Sigilyph in general.

    There's absolutely no skill whatsoever to using Cosmic Power. You need an immensely powerful Pokemon with STAB and maybe LO or Band/Specs to get past that thing. If you don't have it, then, gg. The time you have to sit around and spam Thunderbolt or Ice Beam, fishing for crits is very annoying and occasionally rage inducing. Maybe if it didn't get Magic Guard I wouldn't be posting about this. That's what makes it though: I would normally Burn or Toxic it, and it would die, but I can't! Not only that, but it's a status guard, and a perfect accuracy Burn/Toxic spreader, all in one. I'm stuck around 1300 on the PS ladder because of those things. Additionally, people run other annoying things with it, such as Stallrein (before the ban), Alolololololololomola, etc. Aside from being a giant blob that's a mixed Blissey, it get's Stored Power, which is essentially Psychic Hyper Beam on steiroids once it sets up, which makes it the unkillable (w/out Crits, of course), and it's a powerhouse on it's own. Roost is another annoying part too, 50% back in one freaking turn.

    The offensive sets are equally annoying, as Tinted Lens lets it setup Calm Minds, and can just spam Psychic or Psyshock for non x4 resists. The Life Orb Attacker can negate LO recoil (I think), and other status to take it out, and with Magic Guard it's annoying. Also, Sigilyph has a surprising amount of coverage it can use if it's not using Cosmic Power, such as it's STABs, Heat Wave, Giga Drain, and some others. Overall, not as annoying as Fucking Shit Cosmic Power, but still, hard to take down.

    Sigilyph's Psychic-Flying typing is also a reason why it's so good. It gets a Ground immunity for switching in to Choiced EQs, and can set up Cosmic Power or Calm Mind on the switch, or even a Sub, then CM, or can predict the switch-in and attacking accordingly in the case of the LO Attacker. Additionally, Flying has some good resistances, such as a 4x Fighting Resist (with Psychic of course), Bug, and Grass moves, some of the most common in the tier. Psychic, only resists Psychic, which is not as nearly as bad as the additional Flying-type it received.

    It's stats aren't spectacular, but it's enough to make sure just typing, Abilities, and movepools aren't enough for Sigilyph. Notably, it gets 103 Special Attack and 97 Speed, enough for it's offensive sets, decent defenses, OK HP, and shit Attack, but it doesn't use that. It's defenses are another part of making CP a viable set in RU, just enough to make the cut.

    Sigilyph doesn't need a lot of support, either, so it's a very compact sweeper/wall that can easily fit into a team needing a setup sweeper.

    I think Sigilyph is a big threat in RU, one that is unreasonable in one case, and two that have amazing coverage and power. I think it is worthy of a ban.
    Silvershadow234 likes this.
  3. Psylink

    Psylink

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    256
    I have used a core similar to this (You get it lol), and it works well. I created a team with Emboar and Mesprit with the exact same sets, and it works very well, only I don't have Samurott. I don't really have much to say about it, though.

    EDIT: double post, sorry.
    EDIT 2: There's a team I put in the RU RMT, and there's a core I have there that I can't decide which ones are part of. Maybe it just synergy.:eek:
  4. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest Screw Water Druddigon
    is a Contributor to Smogon
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    1,486
    Cosmic Power Sigilyph is actually really bad, and although it may perform well against an incompetent player, it performs extremely poorly against good players. One of CP Sigilyph's main problems is that it is far too weak to pose a threat without any boosts, and without any boosts Stored Power has a paltry 20 Base Power which means it isn't doing much to anything. It takes far too long to set up for CP Sigilyph to pose a legitimate threat, and while setting up Sigilyph is extremely vulnerable to critical hits, and repeated hits will keep wearing it down while setting up leaves it super prone to critical hits in the process. Also, it gets stopped extremely easily because Taunt, Encore, and Trick all fuck CP Sigilyph pretty hard and a Scarf Rotom-C (the most common set) can Trick the Scarf onto Sigilyph while it grabs a CP, so now Rotom-C can repeatedly fire Thunderbolts at Sigilyph while it can't use Roost since it's locked into CP. Sigilyph is also completely helpless against the relevant Dark-types in the tier because they're immune to Stored Power, as CroTomb can set up alongside Sigilyph and Rest away the burn, while Mandibuzz can Taunt it and Whirlwind it to erase all of its boosts. There's also Absol who can use Super Luck night Slash which has a good chance to crit and to heavily damage Sigilyph before Absol succumbs to the burn. There's also Haze Cryogonal and to a lesser extent Encore Quagsire since they stop Sigilyph from being too threatening.

    While CM/AoA Sigilyph is really good and Sigilyph is definitely an awesome Pokemon, I wouldn't say it's completely unbeatable. I haven't seen Tinted Lens ever used on Sigilyph, as Magic Guard is infinitely better imo. Sigilyph is definitely a legitimate threat, but you can take it down with something like Absol or anything faster like Galvantula or Cinccino. I haven't seen Sigilyph as extraordinarily dominant even with the greatness of this set.

    The Ground immunity honestly also applies to Mesprit, who can also come in on choiced EQ's and proceed to CM away. Mesprit also hits harder than Sigilyph, although it doesn't have Heat Wave to handle Escavalier. Also, Mesprit has the nice resistance to Fighting anyways. I get Sigilyph also has the Grass resist, which is nice, although Sigilyph still isn't an extreme problem in this meta, just a high level threat.

    Yeah Sigilyph doesn't need large support, although same could be said about other Pokemon like Lilligant, Absol, Gallade, etc. I honestly don't think Sigilyph is in any way broken.
    New Light, Goutland and DittoCrow like this.
  5. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    RU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,647
    Defensive Cores

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    As with any other tier, RU has quite a few offensive threats to deal with, some of which can be pretty hard to handle at times! Luckily, RU also has quite a few solid defensive Pokemon to work with to deal with these threats, and while no Pokemon can take all of them on at once, a lot of defensive Pokemon in RU are well known simply because of how well they work with other defensive Pokemon in the current meta. Forming all kinds of defensive cores that can take on most of the metagame (not all though, no defensive core is perfect :/). These defensive cores are very important/common in the current metagame, and are often seen forming the defensive backbone of teams that use them. So, what are your favorite defensive cores in the current metagame? How does this set of Pokemon pair well together? How do they cover common threats the other can't deal with? and what Pokemon could potentially threaten your defensive core and how do you deal with them? As for me, one of my favorite defensive cores is listed below.


    [​IMG]

    Alomomola @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Waterfall
    - Toxic

    [​IMG]
    Roselia @ Eviolite
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature
    - Spikes
    - Giga Drain
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Aromatherapy / Toxic Spikes

    In my opinion, Alomomola and Roselia make an exceptionally good defensive core together, provide a lot of utility to their team together, and cover potential threats to each other quite well. For example, Alomomola has a lot of trouble against the various offensive Grass-types in the tier such as Sceptile, Lilligant, and Rotom-C. Roselia happens to possess a 4x resistance to Grass-type moves, and has more than enough special bulk to take any other coverage move they might have to throw at it at ease, even things like super effective hidden powers. Also, while Roselia is a bit more afraid of random coverage moves, she can take various Electric-type moves that might be aimed at Alomomola as well from Pokemon such as Manectric and Rotom-N, set up Toxic Spikes to wear down the opponent and make it easier for Alomomola to stall a team, and can absorb Toxic Spikes when needed, preventing them from crippling Alomomola. In return, Alomomola can take all the physical Fire-type moves aimed at Roselia such as Entei and Emboar's Flare Blitz, and can take pretty much any physical attack for Roselia outside of that when needed because of her massive physical bulk. What really makes Alomomola+Roselia cool though, is Wish. Alomomola has by far the biggest Wishes available in the tier, and because of Roselia's low base hp stat, mola's Wishes pretty much fully heal her at any given time, and because its easy to simply wish on the switch as something like Sceptile comes in then go directly to Rose, mola has plenty of opportunities to pass one on, greatly increasing Rose's longevity. Of course, like any defensive core, there are Pokemon that give Mola+Roselia trouble. For example, Special Fire-types such as Moltres and Magmortar break through the core with ease, being able to prey on mola's lower special bulk and take her out with either Thunderbolt or Hurricane, and simply OHKOing Roselia with their STAB. Sigilyph gives this core trouble, boosting on both Pokemon with ease and just using Psychic/Psyshock/Stored power to break through both Pokemon.
    EonX likes this.
  6. EonX

    EonX @TheEonX
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    Solid defensive core there Molk. The added bonus is that both have a means of recovery outside of Wish. Mola has Regenerator for passive healing while Rose has Giga Drain to damage the opponent and heal herself some. If Mola uses Wish and switches to Rose, then they both get healed since Mola's Regenerator kicks in when it switches to pass the Wish on to Rose. As for my own defensive core, this will be a 3-Pokemon defensive core:

    [​IMG]
    Druddigon (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Dragon Tail
    - Glare
    - Earthquake

    [​IMG]
    Steelix (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Gyro Ball
    - Roar

    [​IMG]
    Qwilfish (M) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 248 HP / 84 Def / 176 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Spikes
    - Pain Split
    - Waterfall
    - Taunt

    So, yeah, a lot of you probably remember this defensive core from Team Study a couple of weeks back, but it works really well. Druddigon and Steelix are great by themselves due to their sets of resistances, but with Qwilfish added to the mix, a lot of things that could give the core trouble are covered. The best part is that it's almost impossible to safely setup on any member of the core as each has a way to stop opposing set-up sweepers. Druddigon is the first part of it and thanks to that pure Dragon typing, it gets a lot of cool resistances. With resistances to Fire-, Water-, Grass-, and Electric attacks, Druddigon can handle many of the most dangerous special sweepers in the tier. Magmortar, Sceptile, Manectric, and Lilligant are just some of the threats that Druddigon can check. With Steelix supplying Stealth Rock, I can use Substitute on Druddigon to create more guess work as to the set as both Leftovers and LO Druddigon do sometimes run Substitute. Glare cripples p. much any sweeper that tries to break Druddigon while Dragon Tail ensures that any set-up sweeper without Sub is unable to successfully setup. EQ is mainly there for Klinklang who commonly uses Substitute to try and setup, but it's also nice for Aggron, Magneton, and various other Steels that typically come in on Druddigon to resist a predicted STAB move.
    Steelix and its massive physical bulk comes next. Any physical sweeper without a super effective STAB move is p. much getting checked by Steelix. Stealth Rock is great as it deters one of the bigger threats to this core, Moltres, from coming in as much EQ and Gyro Ball serve a couple of purposes. Although I don't invest in Steelix's Attack, its STABs hit some very important things for super effective damage; spinners and Taunt users. Kabutops, Qwilfish, and Drapion all get hit hard by EQ while Gyro Ball hammers Cryogonal, Aerodactyl, and Accelgor (who has Encore) This lets Steelix put the common methods of dealing with hazards in a catch 22 situation. Sure, they can stop Steelix from setting up SR and/or phazing with Roar, but it comes at the risk of taking a super effective STAB move to the face. The EV spread helps with Rotom and Galvantula, 2 Electric-type threats that could otherwise cause some issues thanks to their secondary STABs hitting Druddigon for neutral damage (with a chance of SpDef drops, because fuk hax).
    Qwilfish brings up the rear and does a lot of important things. First and foremost, it stops suicide hazard leads cold. Smeargle, Crustle, and Omastar are stopped dead in their tracks by Taunt while Accelgor and Aerodactyl are ruined by Waterfall. Aside from that, the puffer fish gives me a solid switch-in for physical Fire-types that could otherwise muscle past Steelix and Druddigon (CB Entei 2HKOes Druddigon with Flare Blitz). It also handles Escavalier and Durant quite nicely, thus easing the pressure on Steelix to handle them. Spikes support is really huge as the other parts of this defensive core have phazing moves to abuse the hazards with. Taunt stops opponents from trying to setup on Qwilfish and, as already mentioned, helps when the core is faced with a suicide hazards lead. With paralysis already being covered by Druddigon, Pain Split is used so Qwilfish can be used more as a pivot with Intimidate as its EV spread isn't as defensive as most. Speaking of that EV spread, it outspeeds Smeargle which is really cool, ensuring that it won't be able to do a thing.
    There are a couple of things that do give this defensive core problems. Public enemy #1 is undoubtedly Gallade. Since its STABs hit Steelix and Qwilfish for super effective damage, it is about the only physical attacker in the tier capable of breaking down both of them. Omastar and Samurott are also problematic as they pack Ice Beam to work around Druddigon. While Omastar can be handled to an extent if Qwilfish is able to get in on a double switch, Samurott is hard to fend off since it doesn't rely on any setup moves and just attacks right off the bat. For this reason, Choice Specs Slowking is neat partner for this core. It resists both of Gallade's STAB options to at least provide a pivot into what you're really wanting to use to beat it while Omastar can't OHKO with +2 HP Grass as Slowking fires back with a powerful Choice Specs-boosted Surf. Samurott, however, has Megahorn and/or Grass Knot to fight back against Slowking while having decent enough physical bulk to endure a STAB Psyshock if needed, so extra support against it is needed (though very few things can straight up wall Samurott) Another partner is Spiritomb. It spinblocks the hazards this core sets up and is the best bet for any team against Gallade. It has a harder time with the Water-types, but it has Sucker Punch to hit them with which can KO if they're weakened from a switch-in.
    Explorer, Kenny and Molk like this.
  7. Explorer

    Explorer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2012
    Messages:
    684
    Here's my shot at proposing a defensive core.

    [​IMG]
    Aggron (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def
    Nature: Impish
    -Stealth Rock
    -Thunder Wave
    -Stone Edge
    -Roar

    [​IMG]
    Amoonguss (M) @ Damp Rock
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP/252 SDef/4 Spe
    Nature: Calm
    IVs: 0 Atk
    -Spore
    -Stun Spore
    -Giga Drain
    -Rain Dance

    This is actually a defensive core I have been using on a rain team that aims to hazard-stack with Accelgor and Aggron, use Aggron and Amoonguss to spread status, and then set up rain, letting a barrage of sweepers (Seismitoad, Kabutops, Beartic) overwhelm the opponent.

    Anyway, I have my physical wall and special wall here together. Aggron is my hazard setter, and Thunder Wave is also very important for crippling fast Pokemon that could threaten my setup with their speed (as this core is very slow). Stone Edge is my STAB move to hit most the tier neutrally or super-effectively, and Roar + Sturdy makes Aggron a great emergency phazer in case I'm up against Quiver Dance Lilligant or something like that. It only works once per battle, but usually once is all I need, as by the time the opponent has another chance to set up I have rain up and my sweepers just blaze past Pokemon trying to catch up to the ~550 speed benchmark. Roar also lets me rack hazard damage up to make a future sweep easier, especially if Aggron and the opponent wall each other but switching out would put me at a big disadvantage. HP and Defense are maximized to make Aggron one of the best physical walls in RU, letting it tank most physical attacks easily that are not Ground, Water, or Fighting-type.

    Now, many people use Steelix in this slot instead, but there are three reasons why I use Aggron here.

    1. Neutrality to Fire-type moves- this is something that gives Steelix a lot of trouble, so Moltres will have much more difficulty sweeping if Aggron is healthy.
    2. STAB Rock-type move- Along with the neutrality to Fire-types, Aggron also has a quadruple resistance to Flying-type moves, making Aggron a good check to Swellow, Archeops, etc. Earthquake, the main STAB move for Steelix, doesn't hit these Pokemon at all unless it catches them using Roost. Stone Edge boosted by STAB and a base 110 attack lets me put these Pokemon in their place, especially the aforementioned Moltres with its 4x weakness to Stone Edge.
    3. Thunder Wave- this is the big one. It lets Aggron support its team more, pinning down fast Pokemon trying to switch in on Aggron. It ruins all of the common Choice Scarf users in RU besides Manectric with Lightningrod (who is hesitant to switch into Aggron anyway). Steelix's lack of Thunder Wave is usually what makes me pick Aggron, even if it loses STAB Earthquake

    @EonX it might be worth trying Aggron over Steelix in your core too :)

    Let's move to Amoonguss.

    I love Amoonguss for its ability to repeatedly tank non-SE special moves, and, wait for it....spore. Spore lets me take out a Pokemon on the switch (of course if there is an Emboar I might start with Stun Spore predicting a switch), and Stun Spore cripples more opponents, including Ground-types (offensive Torterra otherwise nukes this core). This may help facilitate a future sweep if Aggron is eliminated or can't switch in. Giga Drain is the STAB move of choice, giving me extra recovery and prevents Amoonguss from having the need to Struggle if it gets hit with Taunt. Rain Dance + Damp Rock lets Amoonguss set up rain very well, with the lack of Black Sludge being compensated by Regenerator (if you want to use this core outside of rain, replace this with Clear Smog//HP Ice and Black Sludge). Since Amoonguss is my special wall, the EVs are geared towards maximizing special bulk, with a bit of speed for speed-creeping other Amoonguss in the Spore Contest.

    Struggles:

    CB Druddigon can destroy this core with proper prediction, as Outrage blows right past Amoonguss and Earthquake KOs Aggron easily despite the defensive investment. Specs Slowking can also be a problem with proper prediction because Psyshock/Fire Blast brings Amoonguss down for the count, and Aggron won't like any of its common moves besides Psyshock. Often the best way to handle these Pokemon is to play around their move lock and hit them with Spore--that is much of why Amoonguss's Regenerator is useful. My sweepers can also come into the mix if needed. My Beartic outspeeds Druddigon and runs both Icicle Crash and Shadow Claw, and Seismitoad runs Grass Knot SPECIFICALLY for Slowking. Accelgor's Spikes also makes it easier to wear down these Pokemon and limit their switch-ins as I play around them.

    Scarf Manectric is also really annoying if it hits either of my defensive Pokemon with Switcheroo, and a weakened Amoonguss will succumb to Overheat. Luckily it is very predictable--I haven't seen any other set besides the Scarf one in at least a month.

    Lastly, the rising popularity of Mixed Emboar is bad news for my team, as unlike the Choice sets, it can switch moves and give my defensive core a lot of trouble (if Rain is up Amoonguss can live a Fire Blast and cripple it). Fortunately Kabutops and Seismitoad both scare it.
  8. Spirit

    Spirit
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    Snazzy (open)
    [​IMG]

    Just like Rebecca, there are many Pokemon that like to express their lesser known side. Lately, I’ve been having fun using defensive Pokemon as offensive ones.

    Lanturn: Defensive Pokemon turned offensive

    [​IMG]
    Lanturn@Expert Belt
    Modest Nature
    136 HP / 252 SpA / 120 Spe
    -Hydro Pump
    -Volt Switch
    -Ice Beam
    -Scald / Thunderbolt / Hidden Power Fire

    Lanturn doesn't have the best Special Attack, but it makes up for it by having amazing coverage. When equipped with an Expert Belt, Lanturn can do a surprisingly decent amount of damage. Hydro Pump is pretty powerful, as it is capable of OHKOing Scarf Magneton after rocks!!! Volt Switch gives you some nice momentum and can OHKO stuff like Qwilfish without any prior damage. Ice Beam 2HKOes stuff like Druddigon and Tangrowth on the switch, which is pretty neat considering those two would normally switch into Lanturn without much worry. The final slot is a matter of preference, really. You can decide from wanting more coverage or a more reliable Water- and Electric-type STAB. The EVs in question allow Lanturn to outspeed Adamant Aggron and the rest are put into HP so that Lanturn can still function as a bulky mon of sorts. I find that this set in particular works very well on bulky offense and it has a lot of surprise factor for its ability to lure out would-be counters and smash 'em to pieces. So what kind of Pokemon have you guys been using unconventionally?
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2013
    Celever, Molk, Explorer and 1 other person like this.
  9. EonX

    EonX @TheEonX
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    @Explorer P. interesting defensive core there. I don't think I really need Aggron as Steelix really helps me with Galvantula, and Rotom-N. Plus, I already have paralysis covered with Druddigon, so Aggron's biggest edge over Steelix is kinda nullified.

    @Icecream Neat offensive Lanturn there. As for stuff I've been using unconventionally, I'll again turn to something I've already posted about a few times:

    [​IMG]
    Emboar (F) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 68 Atk / 252 SAtk / 188 Spd
    Rash Nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
    - Fire Blast
    - Superpower
    - Grass Knot
    - Sleep Talk

    Specially-based Mixed Emboar is really cool in the current meta. It's perhaps the easiest set to stack Fire-types with as it's capable of luring in and taking out common Fire-type responses. Emboar's STAB moves are capable of catching p. much every RU wall on their weaker defense stat. Steelix, Tangrowth, and Qwilfish are all caught by Fire Blast (Qwilfish gets 2HKOed by Fire Blast after SR) while it hits Clefable, Cryogonal, and Lanturn with STAB Superpower. From there, Emboar can utilize Grass Knot on its own convetnional counters such as Poliwrath, Alomomola, and Slowking (SR + 1 layer of Spikes assured the 2HKO on defensive Slowking) to open the door to another Fire-type or physical attacker in general. Sleep Talk retains Emboar's utility against sleep inducers such as Lilligant and Amoonguss. As Mixed Emboar primarily relies on special attacks, I use a Rash nature (to still handle Escavalier and Spiritomb better) and max Special Attack to allow Emboar to hit as hard as possible with Fire Blast and Grass Knot. With 188 Speed EVs, Emboar can outspeed most variants of defensive Qwilfish as well as anything slower, which allows Emboar to 2HKO it with Fire Blast without getting hit by STAB Waterfall first. The remainder is put in physical attack to ensure Emboar can 2HKO Lanturn with Superpower after factoring in stat drops.

    There are plenty of partners for this set. Entei is the first that comes to mind as Emboar is fully capable of luring in and heavily damaging/KOing Slowking, Qwilfish, and Alomomola to clear a path for Entei. Braviary and Durant have better defensive synergy with Emboar and can capitalize on Emboar's ability to quickly take out the likes of Steelix, Qwilfish, and Rhydon.
  10. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest Screw Water Druddigon
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    That's a really fun Emboar set, it makes a great wallbreaker like CB except it's more of a lure since Emboar typically attracts Qwilfish and Rhydon into the scene, and proceed to kill 'em. Speaking of Emboar, I'd like to talk about an offensive core that I've been using lately that I like using.

    [​IMG]
    Exeggutor @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Sunny Day
    - SolarBeam
    - Psyshock
    - Sleep Powder

    [​IMG]
    Emboar @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Flare Blitz
    - Superpower
    - Wild Charge
    - Sleep Talk

    This is a pretty fun offensive core that I've been using lately, and it's pretty cool. Exeggutor and Emboar have excellent synergy both offensively and defensively, and they cover each others weaknesses very well while still posing very powerful threats on their own. Exeggutor handles Water-types like Kabutops and Feraligatr quite nicely, while Emboar handles Escavalier, Ferroseed, and Lilligant. Sleep Powder is also nice to get a literal free kill, and Emboar also has Sleep Talk to absorb opposing sleep. Sunny Day, however, is the big draw to this set imo. With Chlorophyll, Exeggutor becomes a very fast sweeper and can destroy shit with its powerful SolarBeam and Psyshock, while Emboar still handles everything that Exeggutor is countered by and Emboar also loves the sun; since its already powerful Flare Blitzes get even more powerful, giving it CB+Scarf in one with its nuclear Flare Blitz. This is a pretty good core and I really like it.

    PS: You can also run TR Eggy+CB Emboar to again be able to sweep the meta in a different way.
  11. SilentVerse

    SilentVerse Into the New World
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    [​IMG][​IMG]

    This is a defensive core that's been consistently good throughout RU, and it probably has to be the favorite one I've used since I started playing RU. Steelix and Slowking just share such fantastic natural synergy together, with Steelix beating many of the physical attackers that pose a large threat to Slowking, while Slowking beats stuff like Entei, Typhlosion, other Slowking, and similar stuff that gives Steelix issues. The sheer amount of threats that this core covers makes it incredibly easy to fit onto teams, since even though defensive Slowking and Steelix can lack offensive presence at times, the fact that this core is able to provide Stealth Rock and T-wave support, as well as an answer to so many common threats in the metagame makes it a solid choice for any team that isn't heavy offense, or else heavily reliant on offensive momentum. It IS a bit weak to the Grass-types that are so common in RU though, so make sure to pack an answer to those if you want to use this core, though considering that RU has so many options to deal with said Grass-types, that shouldn't be TOO much of a problem. Overall though, it's a solid core, and a very good place to start your slower, defensive teams off with.
  12. Explorer

    Explorer

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    @EonX- I see your point with Steelix. It handles the Scarfed Electrics better than Aggron because Steelix can halt their momentum with good prediction.

    I also like the possibility of running Stone Edge in the last slot over Sleep Talk if you already have Bouffalant or CB Entei with Sleep Talk to nail Moltres on the switch-in.

    @ScraftyIsTheBest Why do you run Psyshock over Psychic on Exeggutor? Is there something in particular you wish to hit harder?

    @SilentVerse Depending on whether you want a defensive or offensive way to get around Grass-types, you could try Tangrowth, CS Braviary, Acrobatics Sceptile, or Bouffalant.
  13. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    Sunny Day Exeggutor+Choice Scarf Emboar is definitely an offensive core that looks pretty solid in this metagame, actually, i've used it quite a bit in the past few days since this post was made and august mentioned that he was trying a similar core, and i was definitely impressed at how well the two Pokemon worked together tbh. As Scraftyisthebest mentioned, Exeggutor and Emboar synergize well both offensively and defensively, helping each other out against their respective checks and counters while still posing an immediate threat to the opposing team by doing so. For example: Emboar can revenge kill/check two Pokemon that give Exeggutor quite a bit of trouble effectively: durant and escavalier, switching in on anything but a superpower from durant, outspeeding, and KOing with Flare Blitz. In Return, Exeggutor threatens Qwilfish, Poliwrath, Alomomola, and Slowking that put a stop to Emboar's sweep, coming in on them, and either threatening sleep or setting up Sunny day to begin its own sweep. Speaking of Sunny Day, Emboar just happens to benefit from Exeggutor's Sunny day even if the palm tree can't immediately sweep: taking half damage from various Water-type moves and getting a boost Flare Blitz out of the deal as well, which means even if Exeggutor doesn't get the job done, Emboar sure might, cleaning up what's left after eggy ravages the opposing team with massively powerful solarbeams. Another option on Exeggutor is to run HP Fire>Sleep Powder to make eggy less dependant on Emboar to handle Durant and Escavalier as it can just get rid of them with a sun boosted Hidden Power Fire. Sleep is often too good to pass up, though, making it a tough deal.

    Also @Explorer, Psyshock hits Pokemon such as Cryogonal and Clefable quite a bit harder than Psychic would, making it potentially the better move in this scenario.
  14. august

    august free the robots
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    hmmmmmmm i dunno if im the only one that noticed this, but CM sigilyph is really good in the current meta.

    lo cm sigilyph with a bulkier ev spread is fully capable of defeating stall singehandedly, since most stall runs spiritomb as the only check and foul play damage maxs around 40% and you can just boost until you're ready to OHKO at around +2 and then manhandle everything. you can also switch into alomomola really easily as well as clefable, slowking, roselia, and poliwrath so its not like cm sigi is hardpressed to find time to set up. its also pretty good vs more offensive teams because it gets decent coverage and can threaten strongmons like kabutops / entei that may switch in (psyshock is a 2hko on both).

    the other cm sigi set that does very well in the current meta is the flame orb shift cm set that i first saw silentverse use in spl. it allows sigilyph to spread burns (which imo has always been the only advantage to using cosmic power sigilyph) while still being able to boost special stats and threaten things offensively. it doesnt have the same coverage that the bulky lo cm set runs though, so in particular you should pack counters to the likes of escavalier, steelix, klinklang, durant etc (magneton???)

    ev spreads for those interested in trying these sets out!!

    bulky lo: 252 hp / 48 def / 208 spe timid
    cm shift: 240 hp / 16 spatk / 252 spe timid (courtesy of molk)
  15. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas NIPPLE BLADES OF FURY
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    @ScraftyIsTheBest The core you made with Eggy and Emboar is really cool, and Exeggutor itself is surprisingly threatening in this meta, blazing speed in the sun (watch out for Manectric though :/), two powerful STABS that hit on opposing sides of the defensive spectrum, and a sleep move allow it to just tear through the tier.

    Some other things I have been trying in the current meta include specially leaning Samurott who just blasts through the physical switch ins, as they often expect a physical SD variant, and Kangaskhan.

    Has anyone else tried Kangaskhan recently in the current meta? It actually has a nice base 90 speed stat that I think gets overlooked, while maintaining good bulk and a decent base 95 attack stat, making it probably the most overlooked revenge killer in the tier. I use the following set (which is very standard in NU, and probably RU too).

    [​IMG]

    Kangaskhan (F) @ Silk Scarf
    Trait: Scrappy
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Fake Out
    - Earthquake
    - Double-Edge
    - Sucker Punch

    There are many positives about Kangaskhan besides the dual priority that I mentioned, it naturally wastes threatening turns for the opponent, especially since manual rain is so threatening in the current meta, and fake out eats a turn (other manual weathers and trick room teams don't appreciate it either), and sucker punch can often finish frail sweepers off. The other cool thing is that Kanga lures in steel and rock types, so with good prediction, you can just go straight for the earthquake and severely damage them (or 2HKO them).

    Sorry if this post is overly cluttered or if someone already brought up Kanga, I'm tired :p.
    Explorer likes this.
  16. Explorer

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    @atomicllamas I should try that set out. I hardly see Kangashkhan in RU, but you use a great-looking set there. I think it would work beautifully on bulky offense to complement an offensive core such as CB Druddigon and Mixed Emboar (EonX-'s set).

    @august- what is the rationale for your EV spreads for Sigilyph?

    Also, do you run Roost, or CM + 3 attacks?

    Personally, Roost is helpful, but Sigilyph's coverage is excellent and should not be overlooked. I prefer a Psychic STAB + Heat Wave (Ferroseed/Escavalier/Sceptile) + Ice Beam (Druddigon/Sandslash).
  17. august

    august free the robots
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    molk created the ev spread for cm shift sigilyph, but the life orb sigilyph spread is enough to beat rotom-n and the rest is in hp/def so you can take attacks like lo durant iron head as well as having a little room vs cb tomb. you can also take shit like scarf emboar flare blitz and ohko back. overall i just like being bulkier on the physical side since im buffering my special defense and since im using life orb (which gives it more power to begin with) i can get away with using more defensive evs. but you can use 60 spatk evs to ohko 0/0 gallade with +1 psyshock after rocks if you really want to.

    edit: you need roost to beat stall. sandslash is not nearly enough for me to want to use ice beam on sigilyph when heat wave probably 2hkoes anyway
  18. EonX

    EonX @TheEonX
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    Yeah, definitely agreeing that Sigilyph is p. cool in the current meta. It's got a solid typing, decent movepool, and Magic Guard, which is its ace in the hole. Getting a free pass on all forms of passive damage is good for defensive Pokemon, but it is arguably even better for offensive Pokemon. Alakazam shows us this in OU while Sigilyph is here to remind us of that ability here in RU.

    However, I want to focus on a different point that got brought up a few posts above mine, and that's Samurott. Imo, it's one of the scariest wallbreakers to face in the tier right now. It may not have the sheer power of stuff like Escavalier and Aggron, but it still has more than enough to get by with and it also has decent Speed and amazing coverage in one set:

    [​IMG]
    Samurott (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 84 Atk / 180 SAtk / 244 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Grass Knot
    - Megahorn

    Samurott is arguably the best mixed attacker in the tier right now thanks to great coverage, high BP moves, and 100 / 109 attacking stats. All great wallbreakers have a "nuking" move and Hydro Pump is that move for Samurott. If you're in doubt, just click it. Odds are, something will get hit p. hard. Ice Beam is cool since Druddigon is so common and it may attempt to take Samurott's Water STAB. What makes it even sweeter is that Samurott's 95 / 85 physical bulk means that Druddigons's Sucker Punch won't be able to KO unless Rott is weakened significantly already. Grass Knot gives Samurott really important coverage on the likes of Slowking, Poliwrath, and Alomomola. You could use HP Grass if you're wanting a stronger hit on Lanturn, but I just prefer using my physical move of choice on it. Speaking of that physical move, that is what makes Samurott so hard to play around imo. The 3-move coverage is the same thing that makes Omastar so hard to defend against once it gets a SS up, but now you add either Megahorn (my preferred move) or Superpower to the mix. Fact of the matter is this: you can't defend Samurott until you force it to use the physical move it carries. Megahorn is generally preferred as Uxie and Slowking are 2 of the most common Pokemon in RU. It's really cool since it smashes Slowking while also defending against the possibility of a Grass-type coming in to protect Slowking from Grass Knot. Superpower has its uses as well. It allows Samurott to easily break past Ferroseed and it will allow Samurott to beat special walls such as Clefable and Cryogonal with more consistency.

    The reason I only use 244 Speed EVs is that there really isn't much of anything that Rott can outspeed past the neutral base 80s benchmark. This is a huge advantage Samurott has over the other premier mixed attacker in RU, Emboar. Thanks to this, it's much more difficult to force Samurott out with the likes of Kabutops, Omastar, and Gallade as they will rarely outspeed Samurott and all 3 get hit hard by Hydro Pump or Grass Knot. The other key advantage Samurott has over Emboar is its typing. Pure Water typing has always been great defensively and Samurott, despite being an offensive Pokemon, can still use this to its advantage. With 95 / 85 physical bulk, a resistance to Aqua Jet, and neutrality to all other forms of priority, Samurott can be quite annoying to deal with as you aren't able to use priority moves to minimize the damage Samurott does as easily as you can with Emboar.
  19. Explorer

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    @atomicllamas I began testing your Kangaskhan set today, and it's working well so far.

    @EonX- If you want to hit Ferroseed hard, I suggest this partnership:

    [​IMG]
    Samurott (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 12 Def/252 SpA/244 Spe
    Nature: Timid
    IVs: 0 Atk
    -Hydro Pump
    -Ice Beam
    -Grass Knot
    -Hidden Power Fire

    [​IMG]
    Spiritomb (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP/248 Atk/8 Spe
    Nature: Careful
    -Will-o-Wisp
    -Pursuit
    -Snatch
    -Sucker Punch

    Spiritomb lets you handle Poliwrath, Slowking, and Uxie well so Samurott can run HP Fire for Ferroseed, Escavalier, and any other Grass-type that is neutral to Ice Beam. Snatch finds its way so you don't get set up on by SubBU Poliwrath and any other Pokemon with Substitute, as you steal the substitute (yes I have tested this). As it tries to break the sub, you can burn it. Pursuit traps Slowking and severely hurts Uxie should it try to switch out. Spiritomb is also an excellent switch in when you predict Uxie will TWave Samurott since Spiritomb doesn't mind paralysis. This also lets you go purely special with Samurott, and there is no need to use mixed attacking EVs. Spiritomb's EVs let it do nearly as much as possible to fleeing Psychics while maintaining great bulk and speed-creeping other Spiritomb that run 0 or 4 speed EVs. Sucker Punch gives you a source of priority to compensate for Samurott's lack of Aqua Jet, and will hit hard in general, letting Spirotomb serve as a decent revenge killer.
  20. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    @atomicllamas Having quite a bit of experience using and playing against Kangaskhan myself (especially playing against, really annoying mon ;-;), i can say for a fact that its definitely an underrated Pokemon in the current metagame. While it recieves some competition from the other Normal-types in RU such as Tauros, Zangoose, Cinccino, etc, i feel Kangaskhan has many unique qualities that help it seperate itself from these Pokemon and make it an exceptionally unique and effective choice. Scrappy is a big one: many teams rely on Ghost-types such as Spiritomb and Golurk to handle Normal-types such as Kangaskhan (not all though, mons such as Steelix Escav and Durant are pretty damn common), but because of Scrappy they end up utterly useless against the kangaroo, simply getting Double Edged to death before they could do anything notable to kanga, making her Normal-type moves that much more spammable. This also means that Kangaskhan can use her Fake Out to revenge kill Rotom-N if needed, which is nice if not pretty minor. Speaking of Fake Out, thats one of the other main reasons Kangaskhan is so fun to use/annoying to play against. Fake Out's flinching effect in combination with Sucker Punch and Kanga's above average bulk make her a pretty cool revenge killer, using Fake Out to inflict a decent amount of free damage on the opponent, then using Sucker Punch to pick them off the next turn, letting her outpace and take out a variety of Pokemon such as Sceptile, Accelgor, Cinccino, +1 Lilligant to an extent, and Absol for her team. Something else interesting to note is that Fake Out's priority is faster than even ExtremeSpeed, which means the opponent can't even attempt to outspeed kanga with their own priority. Fake Out's flinching effect also makes it useful for certain other things, the most notable of which is making Kangaskhan one of the best ways to stop smeargle in the entire tier, flinching it the first turn while breaking its sash and KOing it the next before it can accomplish anything. Outside of the standard Silk Scarf set, i could see a Choice Band Kangaskhan being interesting too, as while it loses some of its revenge killing capabilities, it gains a pretty significant amount of power in return, and because of the aforementioned Scrappy ability and the reliance on Ghost-types certain teams have to take on other Normal-types, CB Kanga would have the potential to do quite a bit of damage. All in all though, Kangaskhan is definitely incredibly underrated in my opinion, and i'd advise all of you to give it a shot.
  21. EonX

    EonX @TheEonX
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    @Explorer While I certainly see the intrigue of HP Fire on Samurott, I think the biggest draw of Samurott is its ability to run a physical move and successfully go the mixed attacking route. Outside of Psyshock users like Mesprit and Slowking, there are so few mixed attackers here in RU and Samurott can not only do this, but it can also stay around in the face of priority thanks to that 95 / 85 physical bulk and pure Water typing. Also, with that moveset you mentioned, Lanturn is a solid check while when Samurott runs a physical move, it not only can handle Lanturn better, but it can also lessen its reliability on Hydro Pump to overwhelm special walls as Megahorn and Superpower hits many important defensive Pokemon harder than Samurott's special attacks on average. Stuff like Slowking, Lanturn, Ferroseed, and Cryogonal all get hit much harder by at least one of the moves and that's what makes Samurott so hard to deal with imo.

    As for Kangaskhan, I don't have a lot of experience using it, but I have faced it before and it can be quite annoying. It has decent coverage and Scrappy makes it to where it can spam its STAB moves with no worries as EQ handles Rocks and Steels well enough. It's definitely something I want to try out soon as it certainly looks p. cool.
  22. Explorer

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    Yes I see that Lanturn is a hard counter since Grass Knot doesn't do as much as you'd like and Samurott can't learn Earthquake (otherwise say goodbye to NU buddy). Who do you suggest I replace Samurott with to accomplish this? Ludicolo with the same four moves? Specs Slowking?

    Also let me know what you think about the Spirotomb set :D
  23. Psylink

    Psylink

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    256
    I'm wondering if there's going to be a new rp thread after the Snow Warning ban, like stage 17.

    This metagame is the most balanced I've ever seen any metagame, not favoring any particular playstyle. I feel if we ban a higher used Pokemon, that we'll ruin our "perfect" metagame.
  24. Explorer

    Explorer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2012
    Messages:
    684
    @Psylink do you mean if we ban Slowking, a top Pokemon in RU that is not broken, it will disrupt the equilibrium that has created our balanced RU metagame?

    Also, I thought I'd share some replays featuring the team I made with atomicllamas's Kangaskhan set. It aims to set up hazards with Specially Defensive Camerupt and Mixed Cacturne so I can pull off a Hitmonlee sweep. Kangaskhan is featured as the primary revenge killer despite the fact that my Mesprit has a Choice Scarf.

    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ru-46259170
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ru-46257469
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ru-46249472
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ru-46032358
  25. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    RU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,647
    Alright, i know that this Pokemon dropped to NU pretty recently, but i've been thinking about it a bit and i think she might have some potential, what do all of you think?

    [​IMG]
    Mandibuzz (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Big Pecks
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Taunt
    - Foul Play
    - Whirlwind / Toxic
    - Roost

    So anyways, Mandibuzz has been decently well known for her phenomenal defensive stats since the start of BW RU, even serving as one of the best Cofagrigus counters while it was in the metagame, but her popularity went down quite a bit in BW2 RU because of a combination of Nidoqueen, the readdation of Hail, and her lack of offensive potential. Now that Mandibuzz has access to Foul Play to make up for the lack of offensive presence somewhat, and both Nidoqueen and blizzspammers have left the tier, i think Mandibuzz just might be able to find a niche in RU again with her amazing bulk, decent support movepool, and decent set of resistances. Of course, because of her amazing all around bulk and reliable recovery, she can check and counter many common Pokemon with ease such as Uxie, Mesprit, Sceptile, Lilligant, Slowking (one of the best slowking checks in the whole tier actually) and even Sigilyph to an extent, although the Stealth Rock weakness can be somewhat annoying at times. Outside of providing a defensive check to many common Pokemon, Mandibuzz can provide a somewhat fast taunt to stop defensive Pokemon such as Slowking, Amoonguss, Clefable, Tangrowth, Alomomola, and Steelix, preventing them from using their support moves or recovering as Mandibuzz or a teammate wears them down, if they decide to use offensive moves instead, Mandibuzz's amazing bulk lets her take them with ease and recover off the damage with Roost, making trying to take her out by brute force futile for these Pokemon. Whirlwind is quite useful as well, letting Mandibuzz rack up hazards damage and repeatedly phaze out Pokemon such as SubCM Uxie and Quiver Dance Lilligant, preventing them from becoming big threats. Although Toxic is a good option too to wear down defensive Pokemon more quickly. The cool thing about all of this is that many of the Pokemon that could threaten to immediately KO Mandibuzz hate being hit with Foul Play, meaning them switching in is always a risk. Despite all this though, there's still one thing that could hold Mandibuzz back, and thats her Stealth Rock weakness, which requires her to be used with a spinner if she wants to be used to her full performance. Still though, i could definitely see Mandibuzz being a viable and possibly even underrated choice in this meta, does anyone have any experience with her?

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