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np: RU stage 16 - Ding Dong The Witch is Dead

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Molk, Apr 1, 2013.

  1. Explorer

    Explorer

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    I personally have used Mandibuzz as a physical wall in RU, rather than a special one. This is because two of its three weaknesses are primarily found in the form of special moves. It has been successful at handling all but the strongest physical moves in the tier repeatedly, largely in part due to Roost letting it heal itself and compensate for the Stealth Rock weakness. The removal of Hail is another gift for it since it doesn't have to worry about facing Blizzspam.

    One other move Molk did not mention that I love using on Mandibuzz is Knock Off. It removes Leftovers from Pokemon such as Steelix, and removes Choice items from Druddigon and Golurk, among others. Along with removing the advantage of the item, it helps to reveal what set a Pokemon might be using. For instance, Slowking often uses defensive sets with Leftovers or offensive sets with Choice Specs/Life Orb, so now you have a better idea of how to deal with such versatile Pokemon. As a result I sometimes run Knock Off/Toxic/Roost/Whirlwind (remember Knock Off ignores Taunt).

    My favorite defensive partner for Mandibuzz is Amoonguss since both Pokemon have reliable recovery. In addition, Mandibuzz can come in on Psychic moves for Amoonguss, and Amoonguss can come in on Electric-type moves for Mandibuzz. In particular, Amoonguss completely walls Rotom-C for Mandibuzz as long as it does not get Tricked a Choice item, and even then not all Rotom-C use Choice items. Since Mandibuzz is fairly slow (it's a wall...), Amoonguss's Stun Spore support is helpful. Plus who doesn't love 100% accurate sleep moves?!
  2. EonX

    EonX One of a Kind
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    Yeah, I kind of have to agree with @Explorer about using Mandibuzz as more of a physical wall. While it can handle the many Grass-types in RU, I think it pairs better with special walls in general. Not to mention Electric-types are so common and they're going to force Mandibuzz out anyway due to her Electric weakness. Being a physical wall also lets her utilize Foul Play with more consistency. While Amoonguss is a decent partner for Mandibuzz, I want to look at another defensive partner that still does pretty well against Electric-types, Rotom-C in particular:

    [​IMG]
    Torterra (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Shell Armor
    EVs: 248 HP / 44 Def / 216 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Wood Hammer
    - Synthesis

    SpDef Torterra is a pretty cool partner for Mandibuzz. It matches up well against most Electric-types and easily checks Rotom-C as only Specs Leaf Storm has a chance to 2HKO it when factoring in the Special Attack drop for the second hit. Tort also resists Rock-type moves for Mandibuzz while setting up Rocks itself for Mandibuzz to use with Whilrwind. Tort also isn't setup bait as its STABs are powerful enough to keep most set up sweepers at bay. Synthesis ensures Tort isn't worn down quickly and considering Mandibuzz has Roost, that makes this defensive core quite difficult to break down. The beauty of it is that this core can also work the other way around (Tort being the physical wall and Mandibuzz being the special wall) although I feel they aren't quite as effective together this way as SpDef Torterra can handle Rotom-C so well and Mandibuzz just hates the lawn mower with a passion.
    Nozzle and Celever like this.
  3. Molk

    Molk tfw zoroark
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    Now that i've talked about a stall Pokemon with potential might as well post this topic :o

    RU Stall

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Although stall was regarded as not as viable or even in some cases outright bad in BW2 RU because of things like Nidoqueen in the past, stall has recently been seeing a little bit of a comeback in RU, with some very effective stall builds going around that can beat much of the metagame if played correctly, so i'm curious what all of you think of stall at the moment. One pretty cool thing about the concept of RU stall is that there are quite a few viable Pokemon in the tier that can fit on a stall team, RU by usage or otherwise. Good examples of Pokemon like this include Steelix, Druddigon, Slowking, Amoonguss, Qwilfish, Tangrowth, Alomomola, Clefable, Spiritomb, Misdreavus, Cryogonal, Regirock, Poliwrath, Roselia, Ferroseed, and Lanturn, and thats not even all of the viable Pokemon that can fill a good niche on stall teams, just some of the more notable ones because of their overall utility/excellent niches. In particular, Alomomola just breathes life into RU stall imo. Her amazing physical bulk, decent typing, and regenerator really go a long way, and she can serve as a good check to the vast majority of physical attackers in the tier, all while simultaneously performing exceptionally well as a Wishpasser, passing gigantic Wishes and not really needing them for herself that much thanks to her ability to recover with Regenerator. Of course Alomomola can be set up on by certain threats, but i honestly really can't think of a good Stall team without Whirlwind/Roar/Haze/Perish Song, so Pokemon setting up usually isn't a huge problem, especially with alomomola to pass around giant Wishes to the potential phazers/hazers. Listed above in sprites is one of the better stall build out there, turning into black and white by august. The team is incredibly solid, and can deal with pretty much anything as long as the user plays well. Moltres can be a potential problem, but even then, it can be played around between clefable, mixed defensive alomomola, and Stealth Rock. So, whats your experience playing with and against RU stall? how good is it in the metagame at the moment? Do you have any stall builds that you think work well in the metagame? What Pokemon threaten common stall teams, and what possible Pokemon/moves/thinking can be used to get past them?

    Pocket likes this.
  4. Turtleye

    Turtleye

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    Pfff, Stall.
    The most annoying style to play against, partly beacuse it takes so long and partly because it makes you rip your hair out of your head from frustration.
    Now, I don't have much expierience using stall, but I've played against a few. If used by a good player, you'll be completely helpless unless you have something anti-stall. However most teams get trouble against a Taunter, since most stall-teams don't run much attacking moves and for the pokemon that do, it's very weak most of the time.
    And yes, Mola is pretty much a musthave on any stall team, beause of her walling capabilities and wishpassing. Also, CP Clefable fits good on Stall because of her reliable recovery in Softboiled, her ability, Magic Guard, on of the best abilities out there, which makes her immune to Toxic and Burns so she'll be on the field forever unless the opponent has a phazing move or manages to take it out before she's at +2~3.
    I just had a battle with Molk against his stall team. His stall team was pretty good, being able to switch around nicely with his pokes since I didnt manage to get up SR (Damn Foul Play) with Golurk.
    Ragequitted xD
  5. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent Yeah, well. The Dude abides
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    Not only did Nidoqueen's departure help Stall out tremendously, but also the banning of Snow Warning. Specs Glaceon pretty much ripped through the Pokemon Molk showed as pictures with Pursuit support from Escavalier simply by spamming Blizzard, and there's pretty much nothing that team can do against it. With the departure of these threats, I can see stall being highly effective, even more effective than it was before, and this is one of the huge reasons I adore RU, because of the fact that practically every playstyle imaginable is both viable and effective, even Trick Room :)

    I myself have never been very proficient at anything to do with stall, be that playing against it or using it myself. Initially I assumed that Stall wouldn't be that great in RU due to the fact that the tier has access to possibly the most efficient Rapid Spinners in BW, but that's a farce when playing against a good player (and somehow you only really seem to come across good players using stall ._.). I'd have thought that standard LO Kabutops could simply set up a Swords Dance and blow past Spiritomb, then spin away the hazards, but it doesn't work like this in practise. The problem comes when you realize that it is affected by Toxic Spikes, and the poison, Life Orb recoil, and hazard damage it takes when it comes in to spin adds up very, very quickly. Stall teams can pivot around between Alomomola and Steelix to wear it down, and even if Kabutops does spin away the hazards, it will often come at the cost of its own life, and due to the massive pink shit known as Alomomola, it can simply heal Roselia and Steelix back up again to full health so that they can set up the hazards again. This is now why I have taken to running items on Kabutops that aren't Life Orb: mainly Rock Gem and Lum Berry.

    Other ways that I have found to get past stall involve using Sigilyph, or, if I'm feeling particularly groovy, Scraggy! Both can bypass status through Magic Guard and Shed Skin, have access to recovery, have sufficient bulk to take Stalls weak attacks and can quite happily boost up to power through the opposing team. Sigilyph can be EVed to avoid being beaten by Spiritomb, and in that case there really isn't much that a Stall team can do.
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  6. Double01

    Double01 Hate it or love it the under dog's on top

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    What I think makes stall so effective is that HO and offensive teams lack a tspike absorber. There is hardly any good offensive poison types in the tier so your forced to run scolipede or qwilfish who aren't always the best on HO. Even if you have a lilligant who does great against stall, tspikes will just widdle away it's health and it would be lucky to get 1 KO.
  7. august

    august get a grip mothafucka
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    Yeah basically what double01 said. Toxic Spikes allows stall to stand a living chance against offensive spike stacking teams, because it allows you to check some huge threats (Magmortar comes to mind) while also allowing you to poison ghost-types such as offensive Spiritomb which will let Cryogonal eventually defeat it and spin away the hazards.

    In my experience using stall in ru (which is over a year now), the biggest threats to ru stall include:

    Hone Claws Durant: it can set up pretty easily and smash Steelix pretty hard. 2hkoes Mola as well
    SD LO Sawsbuck: does 65% or so to Steelix and Gyro Ball does not OHKO.
    Sub DD Fraxure: Low Kick 2hkoes Steelix with a boost and Sub blocks Mola from Toxicing you or burning with Scald
    Lilligant: This has always been annoying for stall :(
    Molt/Mag/Typhlosion: since i don't run Slowking, special fire-type mons are bound to be annoying. Shell Smash Omastar too
    Sigilyph: cosmic power set is easy to beat. lo cm is annoying as fuck. 3 atk LO is bearable i suppose

    There are ways to beat every mon listed here, but of course a magician never shares his secrets.

    The other annoying thing about stall is that there are a lot of defensive teams (particularly those that run a lot of Regenerator mons + a grounded poison) where you will just have to slowly wittle them to death over the course of 100-250 turns which can be pretty time consuming, but i guess its better than outright losing
  8. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold PLUTO
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    Another things very annoying for stall teams are trappers users like Magneton or Gothorita, or just via Pursuit users which can trap Cryogonal / Slowking, some of the keys for stall teams, for example running hazards + ghost + pursuit support is extremely annoying for this defensive teams.

    Magneton or Gothorita can trap some keys mons on the team for after sweep easy with another mon, for example something like Magneton + SD Sceptile to smash any stall team.
  9. EonX

    EonX One of a Kind
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    Yeah, stall is p. effective right now. It's not the most effective playstyle by any means, but it's certainly viable. A while ago, I mentioned somewhere (maybe in this thread; can't remember) the rise of Bulky SD Gallade being a signal that bulky offense was becoming the preferred playstyle in RU, but there's another Gallade set that has perhaps signaled the viability of stall making a big leap; Specially Defensive Gallade. This variant of Gallade was pretty much a necessity when Snow Warning was still allowed in the tier as it was one of the very few things that could not only deal with Glaceon's powerful Blizzards, but also cripple Pursuit users such as Escavalier and Spiritomb that were typically used with Glaceon. SpDef Gallade is also one of the very few choices for stall teams to maintain some type of offensive presence thanks to a high base 125 Attack that allows its Drain Punches to hit what it needs to, even without investment. In fact, this was key when Snow Warning was still around as it could often times take care of Hail single-handedly thanks to Drain Punch.

    Anyway, on to how it works now. Gallade has a status move, a self-healing move that causes damage, and the ability to fit Protect in its moveset without many issues. However, the biggest gem of all is Wish. While Gallade doesn't have the highest of HP stats (base 65 kinda sucks tbh) it works really well with stuff like Steelix and Regirock, both of whom lack reliable recovery and are perfectly viable on stall teams. Steelix p. much says f*ck you to almost every physical attacker in the tier, especially if Gallade catches them with Will-O-Wisp, and Regirock is the best answer to Moltres on a stall team since it also handles p. much every other Fire-type well with the lone exceptions of Emboar and Magmortar (the latter of which Gallade can deal with on most occasions) While I may not be a good stall player myself, there's no denying that it's on the rise with Nidoqueen moving to UU and Snow Warning getting the boot.
    Kingler12345 likes this.
  10. Molk

    Molk tfw zoroark
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    Going into the stall discussion and also noting an underrated threats, here's a Pokemon that i've been quite interested in trying out, does anyone have any experience with it?

    [​IMG]
    Duosion @ Eviolite
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Psyshock
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Recover

    tbh looking at Duosion i think it could be a pretty cool Pokemon in the current metagame because of a combination of factors. Like RU threat Sigilyph, Duosion has access to the coveted Magic Guard along with Calm Mind and reliable recovery, making it a tough threat to take out and a potentially scary stallbreaker (august stall has no way around this afaik lol, Spiritomb Foul Play doesn't do nearly enough). Although it might seemed outclassed by the aztec bird at first, Duosion has some advantages over it that might make it more effective, most notably significantly more bulk thanks to Eviolite (also means it takes less from Foul Play!, more special attack (although this means less considering Duosion is usually investing in its bulk) and a lack of weaknesses to Electric-, Ice-, and Rock-type moves. Duosion is also significantly less crippled when paralyzed compared to Sigilyph, as the ameoba has a low Speed stat to begin with, while Sigilyph enjoys having as much Speed as it can get. Playing with Duosion in both the past and present i've found that its not that hard to set up a win condition with it thanks to its aforementioned bulk and immunity to passive damage, and that the little goo ball can actually clutch games quite well if played right. Calm Mind, Psyshock, and Recover are of course required for this set, for setting up, recovering, and STAB/hitting Cryogonal respectively. Hidden Power Fire is used in the last slot to deter Pokemon such as Escavalier, although other moves such as Hidden Power Fighting and Signal Beam are viable as well. Outside of Calm Mind, i could see OTR Duosion being effective as well thanks to its low speed, good special movepool, high special attack, and magic guard, but having to choose between Eviolite and Life Orb as well as all the competition from Slowking kinda sucks, so i'm not 100% sure on that. So, does anyone have any experience with Duosion? If so, how did it go?
    Celever, Turtleye, Soulgazer and 2 others like this.
  11. Celever

    Celever

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    We all know that NU brings lots of potential to RU, but what about LC Pokemon?
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    All of the listed Pokemon have significant niches in the metagame (well, maybe not Munchlax but I included him here because he was RU for so long... and Yanma is just a boss) in one way or another. While their LC status doesn't technically improve their use over that of an NFE since both can use Eviolite their cute fluffy face in the team preview could think your team is some kind of joke. Two of these LC Pokemon have RU status, Ferroseed and Scyther, whilst Misdreavus and Murkrow are infamous among the RU community, however the rest of these Pokemon are hidden gems hidden in the debris of Druddigon's Outrage. What are your opinions on these Pokemon? Any Pokemon that I missed?

    Edit-For-HnC: Yes Ok Sneasel and Scyther are LC Ubers...

    Edit-For-Eroticllamas: YES OK YANMA IS LC UBERS TOO
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2013
    atomicllamas and Explorer like this.
  12. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    Duosion seems extremely cool and hipster, but if you want to fuck over spiritomb, why not include minimum attack IVs? I'm not sure but I think you can put 2 attack IVs on the standard PS set to get hp fire. Fuck foul play :3
  13. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas Pope Druddigon the 420th
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    Hmm, I feel somewhat qualified to talk about Duosion in RU cause he was on my RU Conquest team the whole time (lol that died), and I will throw in my opinion that defensive calm mind completely outclasses OTR, because even with eviolite, its base 50 defense isn't taking an super effective or stab hits too well, where as the defensive calm mind can set up on physical pokes all day. OTR also doesn't have enough power to blast through the meta meaning it is still p easily revenge killed in TR. Duosion, like Sigi has great stall breaking potential, but is the more defensive version of Sigi, with better defensive typing (worse offensive typing) and better defenses (with eviolite and investment). Duosion is also cuter. I'm gonna make a Duosion team now I think :).
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  14. Spirit

    Spirit
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    [​IMG]

    So on the topic of LC mons, I've always been kinda interested in Trapinch. Its got a nice 100 Base Attack stat and fairly good coverage moves consisting of Earthquake, Crunch, Rock slide, Super Power, and Quick Attack. What originally turned me off was its horrendous Speed (even slower than Slowking, lmao) and its horrid defenses. But I thought because of how good it's Arena Trap ability was, it could overcome those flaws, and I was right. I decided to run a gimmicky team to test out Trapinch and it did its job a good majority of the time. Not only that, but it was surprisingly bulky with Eviolite and some defense EVs factored in. I used a set of 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Atk with an Eviolite and it worked wonders. It was quite bulky because it was rarely ever OHKOed by anything. It could even stomach a CB Head Smash from Aggron and OHKO back! So when I constructed my team, I made the effort to support Trapinch under Trick Room and have it sweep late game or occasionally trap something here and there. I built a VoltTurn core around Monferno (yes, you heard it right) and Rotom because both of them dealt with each other's checks fairly well. I used suicide lead Smeargle to get up entry hazards asap and possibly put something to sleep. Then I used an offensive TanKing core to bust holes in the team whenever necessary, or tank some strong attacks here and there. When it was late game, I would have Slowking set up Trick Room and have Trapinch sweep and it worked out a good majority of the time. The ladder wasn't the best of course, but I was about to beat a few good teams before they quit on me, so Trapinch didn't get much action unfortunately. =/ But anyway, I saved some replays to show how Trapinch worked out. My conclusion? I think Trapinch is a little too good to be called a gimmick, but its niche is just so damn specific, not to mention the amount of support it requires just to work well. Overall, I was pleasantly surprised with how good it was despite the amount of support it needed. I think pretty much any NFE with a trapping ability (except for Diglett, sorry bud) is viable in someway. But it's really how consistant something performs that determines whether or not it's analysis worthy, and I don't think poor little Trapinch is; it's very much a hit or miss kind of Pokemon. Well, without further ado, here are the replays:

    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ru-48399650
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ru-48393383
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ru-48391772
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2013
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  15. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest lovin'
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    As far as LC Pokemon viable in RU, here's what I consider among the most viable.

    [​IMG]
    Ferroseed is probably the best LC Pokemon available in RU. Its RU status is very well deserved, as Ferroseed has an incredible set of resistances and good bulk with Eviolite, which make it a good defensive Pokemon. It's one of the best Spikers available along with things like Roselia and Scolipede, and Ferroseed has its perks. Its typing allows it to set up Spikes very reliably, and the hazard support is valuable to many teams. Thunder Wave is also awesome, so it can cripple faster Pokemon which is helpful for slower Pokemon like CB Emboar and friends. It also has ways to wear down its opponent with Leech Seed and Iron Barbs so they won't last very long; Iron Barbs and Gyro Ball also go a long way in allowing Ferroseed to handle spinners. It walls Kabutops, and punishes it when it spins via Iron Barbs and Leech Seed. It also destroys Cryogonal with Gyro Ball. Also, Ferroseed's Steel type means it's one of few Pokemon that can switch into Druddigon's Outrage well. Overall, Ferroseed is a great Pokemon in RU; and it's in RU for a good reason; as it's one of the top defensive spikers available (it was only ever bad in the Queen meta, but that was because being a defensive mon was not a good idea in that metagame).

    [​IMG]
    Despite its NU status, the Queen of LC is a great Pokemon in RU; so much that I'd say it almost deserves to be RU. Its spinblocking ability is pretty great, and while it faces competition as a defensive Ghost-type from Spiritomb, Misdreavus has some pretty valuable traits that warrant its use. For one, Misdreavus has the important Bug resistance, so unlike Spiritomb, Misdreavus is a great bet to handle Escavalier and Scolipede and burn them with Will-O-Wisp; it also is immune to EQ from the latter. Levitate is also a really good ability, since Spikes and Toxic Spikes have become ubiquitous, and being immune to them is a great trait to have in this metagame. Misdreavus has nice bulk in general, so it spinblocks well while it can support its team with Heal Bell, Thunder Wave, or even Perish Trap. Perish Trapping is a cool trait, and if you want that, Misdreavus is a fun bet. Overall Misdreavus is a great Pokemon, and is very underrated; if you're looking for a bulky Ghost-type not named Spiritomb; I highly recommend you try Misdreavus; you won't be disappointed.

    [​IMG]
    Murkrow isn't that great compared to Misdreavus and Ferroseed, but imo Murkrow is a pretty fun Pokemon to use in RU. Prankster is a nice ability and Murkrow has a nice support movepool as well, so it can use Prankster Thunder Wave and such moves to be a pain in the ass. Murkrow also can run SwaggerPlay, so it can pseudo sweep and be annoying in general. Murkrow has the ability to Perish Trap as well, so it can get one free kill in. Liepard might seem better, but Murkrow is just as fun to use, and it also has Roost. It's a pretty decent choice if you plan to be annoying.
    Kingler12345 likes this.
  16. EonX

    EonX One of a Kind
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    I feel qualified to talk about Murkrow considering I've been testing it out lately. While most people take advantage of Prankster, it does have some cool offensive perks as well that can lend themselves to a p. neat offensive 'mon as well:

    [​IMG]
    Murkrow (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Insomnia
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Sucker Punch
    - Heat Wave
    - Brave Bird
    - Roost / Hidden Power Grass

    This is the offensive set I've used a bit lately and it actually is pretty decent. Base 85 offenses don't set the world on fire by any means, but a high BP STAB move in Brave Bird, priority in STAB Sucker Punch, and a convenient coverage move in Heat Wave gives it enough. There's also two other really big things it has going for it; ability and Speed. Most people think of Prankster when they think of Murkrow, and rightfully so. It has a fantastic support movepool and the ability to abuse it with. However, in a tier where there seems to be sleep inducers at every corner, Insomnia can also be a great ability. What makes it work so well as a sleep blocker is its Speed. Base 91 Speed trolls the hell out of Lilligant, the fastest sleep inducer in the tier, and it also outspeeds a decent portion of RU as a whole; just getting the jump on stuff like Moltres, Rotom-C, and Gallade. This makes offensive Murkrow quite the useful Pokemon if an offensive team is in need of stopping sleep from ruining momentum, and unlike most other sleep absorbers, Murkrow doesn't have to rely on Sleep Talk to still function. The other moves have been explained, but the last slot is tricky. Roost can be nice to offset Brave Bird and LO recoil and help Murkrow hang around for a little bit, but HP Grass screws over Rhydon and Alomomola if that's desired. Finally, for those of you wondering "Why don't you use Super Luck, Eon?", the answer is simple; Murkrow doesn't learn Night Slash. Even if it did, I think Insomnia is still better since Krow outspeeds all sleep inducers and can KO or seriously dent them. The big problem with offensive Murkrow is that it can't switch-in... on anything. Its defenses absolutely suck without Eviolite, but slow Volt Switch / U-turn users, like Eelektross, Lanturn, and Support Uxie, can help this problem.
    Magical Magmortar, Molk and Pocket like this.
  17. Molk

    Molk tfw zoroark
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    As someone who uses Life Orb Murkrow for fun on and off, i'd have to say for myself that its actually quite the decent Pokemon (not 100% sure if i'd use it in a serious match but its definitely very fun to use imo, especially with Spikes). From my experience Murkrow rarely lives more than a few turns because of its frailty, BB recoil, and Stealth Rock weakness, but when used properly can do quite a bit of damage during those turns. Of course it recieves quite a bit of competition from Absol as a physical attacker, but looking at krow the bird actually has a few advantages that seperate itself from the disaster Pokemon. Most notably, Murkrow's high Speed stat and STAB Brave Bird make up for its base 85 Attack stat quite a bit (LO Murkrow BB is actually slightly stronger than LO Absol Sucker Punch lol). Because of the extra Speed, Murkrow can outpace and strike many Pokemon hard that Absol would have to rely on Sucker Punch to hit, meaning it requires less prediction at times. The extra coverage provided by Brave Bird is nice too, giving Murkrow a reliable way to hit Fighting-type Pokemon that might trouble say Absol. As EonX- mentioned, Insomnia is another cool advantage that makes Murkrow an interesting Pokemon. This means i can (with some prediction of course because of the fraility) get Murkrow in on Pokemon such as Amoonguss, Lilligant, Smeargle, and Tangrowth for free, absorb the potential sleep move, and pose an immediate threat with Brave Bird, Sucker Punch, or Heat Wave, which is always really nice. Although Roost and Hidden Power Grass are both definitely good options for the final moveslot and have their uses, i've also been experimenting with Pursuit a little bit. Murkrow's Pursuits aren't the strongest in the world, but a quick Pursuit is always nice to have for Pokemon like say Rotom or Offensive Mesprit, and the bird would probably have an easier time trapping these Pokemon than something slower like say Absol. As mentioned, Murkrow is far from a perfect Pokemon, and it definitely has some very annoying flaws, but i've actually had quite a bit of fun with the little guy and he's better than he looks imo.
    Kingler12345 and EonX like this.
  18. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]
    is a Pre-Contributor
    Mentor

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    SR setters

    Every team rlly needs a sr user. The residual damage helps netting ko's a lot easier, and many pokes such as moltres are incredibly difficult to deal with without sr. There are many viable sr setters in ru, thanks to the wide distribution of the move. Here are two of my fav sr setters in the current metagame:

    [​IMG]
    Golurk is a great poke right now, thanks to its typing, bulk and attack stat. It's also the only sr user in ru that can block spin. The other great perk of using golurk over say rhydon is the fighting immunity. Golurk can counter hitmonlee and many other fighting types consistently while still maintaining a strong offensive presence, unlike uxie.
    [​IMG]
    Smeargle is a rlly cool lead for offense, since it can set-up sr and spikes as well as sleep a troublesome poke. It doesn't have the bulk or resistances of smthing like omastar, which can set-up sr and also has the bonus of spikes, but it makes up for this with spore, its speed and also a fourth move of choice, such as ww which lets it phaze out boosting mons or explosion which stops rapid spin for one turn from the likes of defensive cryo and adamant kabutops.

    These are two of my favourite sr'ers. What is your go-to sr setter and opinion on these two?
  19. Mylo Xyloto

    Mylo Xyloto

    Joined:
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    I love using Sash lead Smeargle on my offensive teams. The fact you can reliably set up hazards is pretty cool. Spore is one of Smeargle's main advantages over other hazard setters. With the terrible gen 5 mechanics, that pokemon is pretty much dead weight for the duration of the match. The toughest choice when using Smeargle imo, is the 4th move slot. The choices of Memento, Explosion and Whirlwind. I actually prefer Explosion since Exploding on something like Cryo is pretty cool for blocking spin etc. Same with Kabutops (kabu gets a free speed boost though). Whirlwind is another option, which helps prevent set up sweepers from using Smeargle as set up bait. Memento is yet another option. Memento helps gain a set up opportunity for another teammate.

    [​IMG]
    Hazard Lead Omastar is one of my favourite hazard setters. Being able to get Stealth Rock and Spikes up on the opponents side with relative ease since most opponents expect a Shell Smash set. With 252 Special Attack EVs and an awesome 115 base special attack, Omastar hits really hard with Hydro Pump and Ice Beam. With Focus Sash Omastar can survive any hit from full hp. Weak Armour coupled with Icy Wind gives Omastar the much needed speed advantage, outspeeding and setting hazards simultaneously is pretty awesome.
  20. Molk

    Molk tfw zoroark
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    RU Leader

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    Here are two Stealth Rock setters that i enjoy using myself =).

    [​IMG]
    Druddigon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Outrage
    - Sucker Punch
    - Earthquake

    As whats arguably one of the best mons in the tier, Druddigon is one of my favorite Stealth Rock setters for its reliability and all that it brings to the team. As a Dragon-type in a tier pretty much completely devoid of similar Pokemon, Druddigon has a pretty big niche and little competition in RU, with the majority of other Dragon-types usable in RU being not fully evolved. This means Druddigon brings a unique set of resistances to the table, most notably giving the common FWG cores trouble and making an excellent check to common Electric-types such as Galvantula, Manectric, and Rotom-C, not even fearing their coverage moves such as Hidden Power Grass, Overheat or Leaf Storm like something like Rhydon or Steelix would. Combine these important resistances with, great neutral coverage, priority, good bulk, and a massive Attack stat, and you have one of the best Stealth Rock tanks available in RU. Personally i find myself running Druddigon on the vast majority of my teams that need a bulky Stealth Rock setter, simply because of how useful it is overall and how much it can easily cover in a single teamslot, being locked into Outrage can be annoying sometimes though ;_;. (Speed EVs are used to speed creep other Druddigon by the way, OHKOing other Drudd before they can do anything is really nice).

    [​IMG]
    Steelix @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Stealth Rock
    - Gyro Ball
    - Earthquake
    - Roar

    Looking at all the potential Stealth Rock setters in the RU tier, i'd say Steelix is probably one of the best, if not the flat out best Stealth Rock setter for defensive balance/stall teams in the whole tier. Steelix's combination of incredible bulk, phazing, and slew of resistances is just too good to give up most of the time, and the iron snake can cover an incredible amount of Pokemon in one teamslot that no other one Pokemon could, including incredibly scary wallbreakers such as Aggron and Druddigon, who simply get hard walled by Steelix once they're locked into Head Smash and Outrage, respectively. This massive physical bulk also means Steelix is pretty much guarenteed to get up Stealth Rock at least once during a match, as it has a huge amount of switch in opportunities and is nearly impossible to OHKO without a strong special move (actually from full health, its completely impossible to OHKO because of Sturdy, making this even easier). To make things even better for Steelix, while its Attack stat isn't anywhere near say Golurk or Druddigon's, its high Base Power Gyro Ball makes up for it, hitting most faster opponents for max or near max power, and doing surprising amounts of damage even when uninvested, this along with Roar ensures that Steelix is never a sitting duck for the opposing team, and its quite hard to use it as set up fodder, which is especially important on a defensive team where teammates usually aren't hitting nearly as hard.

    Also agreeing that Smeargle, Omastar, and Golurk are excellent Stealth Rock setters, i've had good experiences with all 3.
    Worldtour likes this.
  21. EonX

    EonX One of a Kind
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    Here's some that I've had some success using:

    [​IMG]
    Rhydon (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Lightningrod
    EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 76 SDef / 92 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rock Blast
    - Earthquake
    - Megahorn

    Rhydon isn't much of a secret to experienced RU players. Rhydon is a fantastic offensive tank in the current meta; being able to beat Druddigon one-on-one while also being a complete stop to p. much anything Entei tries to throw at it offensively. Its great physical bulk lets it easily check most Normal- and Flying-types throughout the match as well. Rhydon is just a perfect fit for any type of offensive team. It's best on bulky offense teams, but even more offensive teams can get use out of it as it doesn't give up offensive pressure to set Stealth Rock. Rock Blast is a really neat tool to deal with Sub users like Sceptile and Cinccino, but it's obviously very risky to stay in on either one of them. Rock Blast also ensures that sash leads such as Crustle are limited to one layer of entry hazards and Rhydon can simply use its bulk and resistances to get Stealth Rock up later in the match. Rhydon's biggest advantages over Golurk and Druddigon lie in its typing and primary STAB move. Golurk finds itself at a severe disadvantage against Pursuit users, especially Spiritomb and Absol while Druddigon must lock itself in to use its primary STAB move. However, Rhydon lacks the Pursuit weakness of Golurk while still possessing the reliable STAB move that makes Golurk so good in the first place. I personally run a few extra Speed EVs than the on-site spread to speed creep the on-site Druddigon spread since Rhydon soundly 2HKOes it with Earthquake, thus limiting Druddigon to a layer of Stealth Rock or just one EQ on Rhydon.

    [​IMG]
    Torterra (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Shell Armor
    EVs: 248 HP / 40 Atk / 220 Def
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Wood Hammer
    - Earthquake
    - Synthesis

    Another Ground-type, but much more defensive. Torterra makes for a fine defensive user of Stealth Rock thanks to its unique typing and great overall bulk. That overall bulk actually lends itself to two different spreads that are possible on defensive Torterra, but more on that later. With this spread, Torterra becomes a great physical tank and takes advantage of its resistance to the ever-common QuakeEdge combination. This is vastly important and makes Torterra one of the most reliable Aggron counters in the tier, even moreso than Steelix imo thanks to its reliable recovery in Synthesis. Torterra retains what's so good about Steelix and that's the ability to hit back with some force as a defensive Stealth Rock user. Grass+Ground gets pretty neat coverage in RU and thanks to Torterra's solid base 109 Attack, few opponents will actually be able to use Torterra as setup bait. Now, at the outset, I mentioned there being another EV spread for defensive Torterra. If you don't need one of the most reliable Aggron checks in the tier, then you can use a specially defensive spread (248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef and a Careful nature) to make Torterra one of the best switch-ins to Rotom-C in the tier while still keeping the current moveset in tact. You may wonder why I use 40 Attack EVs on the physically defensive spread, but not the specially defensive. Well, the on-site Aggron spread is OHKOed 100% of the time by Earthquake after Stealth Rock with the Attack EVs should Aggron predict the switch-in with Fire Punch. (which only has a 6.64% chance to 2HKO after SR) As a side note, Shell Armor ensures that Torterra can setup Stealth Rock on everything it's supposed to as it prevents opponents from landing untimely critical hits on Torterra as it attempts to setup Stealth Rock.
  22. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest lovin'
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    Here are some SR users I like using atm.

    [​IMG]
    Mesprit @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Psyshock
    - Thunderbolt / Ice Beam
    - U-turn

    Mesprit is one of the better Stealth Rock users in RU imo, and it does well at this job. It has pretty good bulk, Levitate, and a decent defensive typing which allow it to set up SR rather reliably. Mesprit also has a Fighting resistance and a Ground immunity, which allows it to check a good array of Fighting-types; Mesprit also has a strong offensive presence, unlike Uxie. Mesprit is also a lot cuter than Uxie too, imo. Mesprit's great coverage as well as U-turn allow it to hit plenty of things rather hard; and U-turn means it can grab momentum for your team rather handily. Mesprit also has the moves so it can beat the viable spinners in RU; Thunderbolt nails Kabutops while Psyshock does a good amount of damage to Cryogonal. Hitmonchan is also crumbling to Psyshock. Ice Beam though is nice to nail Druddigon, so Mesprit can put up a fight against Druddigon and Golurk if it uses SR. I use this a lot because I like its qualities, definitely an underrated threat imo.

    [​IMG]
    Crustle @ Custap Berry
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 204 HP / 252 Atk / 52 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes
    - Rock Blast
    - X-Scissor

    One of the better suicide leads out there. Crustle does very well because it can set up both SR and Spikes, which gives you a lot of early game momentum. It has Sturdy, and along with a Custap Berry, Crustle can guarantee at least SR and a layer of Spikes; it has nice physical bulk so it can grab even more. Smeargle may give it competition, but Crustle has the usable bulk as well as decent offensive power; which means it can hit for good damage, unlike Smeargle. If you're in for a hyper offense lead, go for this thing, it'll do well.
  23. The Quasar

    The Quasar

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    I like Crustle like SR/Lead, I find it more useful, so much that I prefer it over other solutions. Another Nature/EVs (Lonely nature and 252 Atk / 252 Spd with some changes about IVs HP, Def and SDef) can get into Custap range easily.
  24. Kirbles

    Kirbles

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2013
    Messages:
    123
    [​IMG]
    Torkoal @ Leftovers
    Trait: White Smoke
    EVs: 48 Def / 252 HP / 208 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rapid Spin
    - Lava Plume
    - Toxic/ Will-O-Wisp/ Yawn

    I quite like using Torkoal as my Rocker, the ability to lay down rocks and spin them away (Despite taking 25% damage from rocks) is something I like. Despite its slow speed it has great Physical bulk and half decent special defense allowing it to take hits from many unboosted, and even some boosted moves. Torkoal also has some other nice moves that it can use such as Will-O-Wisp which allows it to take physical hits even better, Yawn to either force a switch or put something to sleep and Toxic to wear down pokemon over time. Offensively it gets Lava plume which has a nice 30% burn chance, it also gets Eruption but that doesn't work well with the low speed.
  25. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold PLUTO
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    I'll post my set and one of my favourites Stealth Rock atm :p

    [​IMG]
    Mesprit @ Flame Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Stealth Rock
    - Psychic
    - Trick
    - Healing Wish

    This set is just very utility, first work of this set is just setupp Stealth Rock very early on the game, Flame Orb + Trick helps luring Spiritomb, Escavalier etc or crippling mons that you cant touch like Slowking or Cryogonal. The nice thing about Flame Orb is that pass Rest when awake or just is useful against Lum mons since you're switching your item, finally Healing Wish helps a lot on late game with some sweepers or necessary mons on your team that you needs be healthy to win. :)
    alexwolf, Hollywood, Wepwn and 3 others like this.

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