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np: RU stage 16 - Ding Dong The Witch is Dead

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Molk, Apr 1, 2013.

  1. EonX

    EonX Rise Above
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    @Hot N Cold pretty sure I had the misfortune of running into that set on the ladder and it caught me off-guard for sure. While it has no coverage on Spiritomb and is unable to cripple it if the opponent isn't itching to switch it in and you Trick away the Flame Orb, Healing Wish helps with this since you can just sac Mesprit (it's probably dying anyway if Tomb gets in safely and you're without your Flame Orb) and bring back something that can deal with Tomb (and hopefully the rest of the opposing team)

    Anyway, on to another SR user that has gone unnoticed thus far:

    [​IMG]
    Uxie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 156 Def / 104 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Psychic
    - Yawn / Thunder Wave
    - U-turn

    While not as offensive in nature as Mesprit, Uxie certainly has its own great qualities for making it a great SR user. Psychic is used so Uxie can deal with Fighting-types and while it may not hit as hard as Mesprit, Uxie's great bulk can make up for this. Yawn and Thunder Wave are both good status moves and it generally comes down to whether you want to cripple something for the rest of the match (Thunder Wave) or just force switches (Yawn) U-turn allows Uxie to get out of bad matchups and to build momentum, thus allowing it to act as a defensive pivot after it gets SR up. While I do greatly prefer Mesprit thanks to the offensive presence, there's no denying that Uxie is a great SR user in its own right and has quite a few things going for it.
  2. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Maybe I'm using it wrong, but I personally don't like giving Druddigon Stealth Rock. Even with Druddigon's bulk, I find that it wears down too easily, and spending a turn setting up Rocks could have been better spent spamming LO-boosted Outrages. Torterra and Steelix are solid SR options, imo. Also that Mesprit set looks fun, HotNCold :d
    Silvershadow234 likes this.
  3. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold hommies
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    [​IMG]
    Magneton @ Custap Berry
    Trait: Magnet Pull
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
    - Endure
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Flash Cannon / Magic Coat


    Here another of my sets, Custap Endure Magneton has a niche than the others sets from him. This Magneton first at all no one expected this set, so is just an important point to favor, this sets works very similar to Magneton Scarf like check / rk against some steel types like Durant and Aggron, but with this set you have a better SpA because Modest nature and for example Aggron after +2 outruns Scarf Magneton, so you can get a better RK with this set to them, another nice thing is that if you opponent calc the damage to your Magneton they expect a Choice mon just Specs or Scarf, since dont run Eviolite because the lower bulk so you can lure of them (for example if you switch into Escavalier and you killed him, depends on the game you can bluffer another item => Choice, and for example after to do this they can switch to Kabutops and Sword Dance so you just Tbolt him).
    Custap Berry also is a safeguard to some sweepers like Omastar on the oponnent team, so you are not going win at the moment but you cant stop a sweep on your side that otherwise you would lose.

    The moveset is pretty simple, Thunderbolt and Endure are mandatory, Hidden Power Fire is necessary too for Escavalier and Ferroseed, with a nice coverage. Last move depends, Flash Cannon helps against stuff like Cryogonal or Druddigon while that Magic Coat is nice against Spore / Sleep Powder mons like Smeargle or Amoonguss and against hazard mons.
  4. august

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    Yeah i agree with pocket, SR Druddigon is definitely a waste of an incredible offensive pokemon. Although offensive teams use it a great deal as their rock setter, i often find it to me a momentum killer. The Sheer Force mixed Drud set is capable of breaking through the likes of Steelix and Tangrowth, while the Choice Band set provides a Sleep absorber that hits like a mac truck. The only time i'd ever even consider using SR on Druddigon was if i was using a very specially defensive EV spread and desperately needed a rock setter (because most of the times if i was using sdef id be using restalk)
  5. EonX

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    Yeah, SR Drudd isn't terrible, but when you have CB and mixed sets to work with, I'd much rather use those unless I couldn't afford the use of something like Rhydon or Golurk (2 other SR setters that can still provide solid offensive presence) The mixed set isn't really stopped by anything except for Alomomola and the CB set is the 2nd best sleep absorber in the tier (behind Emboar) as it literally doesn't care about what Hidden Power Lilligant is running and any move it picks out of Sleep Talk (Outrage, DClaw, or Fire Punch) is gonna nuke the sleep inducer if its ballsy enough to stay in. Also, the cool thing about CB Sleep Talk Drudd is that if Sleep Talk picks Outrage, you aren't locked in. This means you have a 33% chance to use your strongest move without any sort of drawbacks.
    Kingler12345 likes this.
  6. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Druddigon (+Atk) ThunderPunch vs 252 HP/252 Def Alomomola (+Def) : 44.38% - 52.62%
    After entry hazards: 303 - 347 (56.74% - 64.98%)

    Thunderpunch is a neat niche option too that I used for hitting Poliwrath back when I devised SF Drudd (concurrently with CL), it gets solid hits on Wrath and Slowking notable, allows you to hit flying types like Moltres without locking and is a guaranteed 2hko on alomomola after SR and Spikes, with a shot at a KO after just SR. It would go over Sucker Punch or Earthquake, depending on your team slot. Going over Earthquake is a definite option as Thunderpunch OHKOs Kabutops and always 2HKOs Omastar, two targets for Earthquake. The other primary target for Earthquake is Aggron a mon that can be 2HKOd after hazards with Flamethrower, meaning that you don't even lose out on your primary targets with TPunch over Earthqauke! Overall not a move you want to use every time but a neat option for a versatile mon!
  7. Celever

    Celever

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    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    TanKing.

    One of the best-known cores of RU is TanKing, a mix of Tangrowth and Slowking. Tangrowth is a very physically-bulky Pokemon whilst Slowking is very specially-bulky, Tangrowth's pure Grass-Typing resists the Electric- and Grass-Type attacks Slowking is weak to while Slowking resists Fire- and Ice-Type attacks targeting Tangrowth. To top it all off they both have Regenerator, which heals a third of their HP every time they switch out. This is all basic stuff I'm saying here but TanKing is a very basic core in all honesty. It has fallen out of fashion in recent times due to meta-game shifts and people preparing for it, however this is a good time for the core to make a comeback. Why? People don't see it as a threat any more.

    TanKing can be offensive or defensive depending on your style of play; both are good special attackers however the offensive core means that your team members are limited far more than the defensive core, which is definitely my favourite choice, just because both of them are renowned for walling large portions of the metagame. The problem with the offensive TanKing is that you need Pokemon that beat special walls as support that also cover the weaknesses they have, whereas with defensive cores you only need a Pokemon or two to patch up the weaknesses these two share (main ones I can think of are Manectric due to Overheat and Galvantula) and a bunch of other Pokemon.

    So what are your experiences with this core? How do you think they could perform in the current metagame? Who do you think are good partners and who counters the two Pokemon well?
  8. Kirbles

    Kirbles

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    I've never really had a problem with this core, my main teams always used Galvantula.
    252 SpA Life Orb Galvantula Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Tangrowth: 374-439 (92.57 - 108.66%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Galvantula Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 213-252 (54.06 - 63.95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    So, if you are using this as a core you would need something to take care of Galv. Cinccino is one solution to a non scarfed Galvantula as is is able to outspeed and hit it with Rock Blast. Another great pokemon would be Magneton, it resists its STABs and Giga drain and depending on the hidden power it uses (Smogon suggests ground so be careful). If Galv does carry HP ground, another pokemon that resists it's STABs and giga drain along side being immune to Ground is Rotom-H (Edit: Thanks atomic, i forgot it was UU. I kwas thinking it was NU for some reason.)

    Of course there is always Aerodactyl/Archeops being able to scare it out with their STABs
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2013
  9. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas on good days I am charming as fuck
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    Hmm, well Rotom-H is UU, and Aerodactyl has no flying STAB except for maybe power herb Sky Attack (<--- I've seen that, it actually surprised the hell out of me and was kind of effective). But otherwise, you are correct that Galvantula is a great check to the Tangrowth core, although it doesn't like to switch in on either (scald or HP fire really hurt, and SR is very limiting). The best response to the TanKing core is somethink like CM sigi, which can set up on and destroy the core, offensive sigi does p well too. Another good choice is Mixed Absol (lol I talk too much about that), but it beats Slowking 1v1, and lures in and destroys Tangrowth with Fire Blast.
  10. col49

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    ayte, so i gues i don't post here much (might be ocd or something acting up, why is this still round 16 ;-; ), but i guess i'm feeling motivated right now. this might just be personal bias getting at me, but i honestly feel as though the tanking core has been fairly mediocre for quite a while now, and it's only gotten worse as of late. i mean, to an extent i have to agree with celever in that it isn't prepared for nearly as heavily as it was in prior stages of the metagame; i know i haven't been giving much mind to this core in particular in my team-building much, regardless of the playstyle i was building for. however, i still have yet to struggle against this core, and i had a little trouble explaining clearly why, but i think i finally have a decent explanation for it: at its core, every aspect of this core is relevant to the point that most teams should already have them covered, without the need to immediately address the tanking core itself.

    this probably sounds really awkward, so i'll explain a little bit. for instance, look at tangrowth. practically every offensively inclined team will already be packing something to eat Sleep Powder, whether it be a sleep talk user, vital spirit 'mon, or maybe even a sap sipper 'mon, and from there-on in it's just a matter of verifying coverage moves, if that's even necessary. what's more, there are plenty of circulating lure 'mons out there, such as fire blast absol, lo sheer force druddigon, and generalized ebelt electric-types, that are already that are perfectly useful even without tangrowth in the equation (considering stuff like esca, steelix, generalized electric-immune 'mons are already worth baiting). defensive teams might not have these sort of responses per say, but they're already going to be carrying 'mons like roselia and cryogonal for other purposes in addition to tangrowth, and most are going to be carrying clerics and / or spdef normals on top of that. as for slowking, every team should already have a couple answers to this, it's basically the most relevant 'mon in the tier lol. it's one of the biggest reasons pursuit is as worthwhile an investment for offense as it is, and no playstyle would be giving it too much leeway.

    let me give a quick example. a few days ago i decided i wanted to make a casual team built around cm+bp musharna. the first thing i decided upon was to utilize scarf magneton, since it would make a solid recipient for cm boosts that could multi-purpose alongside mushy really well, trapping problem Steel-types quickly to open a better window for mushy to sweep itself, cleaning decently late-game (outpacing ScarfBoar being p.relevant), and applying pressure to the common dark-types of the tier without much trouble. from there i decided it would be a great opportunity to use an old favorite set of mine, bulky agility moltres, since it makes an effective breaker and cleaner in one, has nice synergy with both mushy and magneton (ridiculous with a cm boost, smashes ground-types / spdef grass-types for magneton, etc.). deciding to determine how to go about my means to hazard prevention later, i pretty quickly pick up seismitoad, since it has ridiculously good synergy with moltres, offers a nice check to bulky waters that can re-posses momentum on volt switchs and such nicely, and of course provides sr support. as much as i dislike fwg cores, it looked like roselia would be a really nice 'mon to have at this stage; having a clean status and tspike absorber looked to be really nice, it formed a decent "defensive core" between it, 'toad, and mushy put less pressure on the team to exert constant offensive pressure on the opp, and tspikes of my own helped wear down a ton of 'mons that check / counter my win-cons (plus it meant that i could splurge for protect on 'toad :] ). lastly, i decided to splash in a variation of offensive cryogonal w/lum berry in order to offer spin support, bait bulky waters to get poisoned, and offered some kind of game plan v.smeargle x_x

    kinda longer than i thought, whoops lol. regardless, this is what i'm talking about; even without addressing the tanking core once in team-building, this team takes it on pretty well. tspikes ruin tanking, moltres ruins the core if it can hit consecutive hurricanes, individually both are covered cleanly between toad and rose, mushy sets up on the core fairly easily, etc. while i can't exactly say that my team is the best example of a "standard team", it does follow a lot of the regular cadences of the tier (fwg core, couple of things to pressure drudd, bulky psychic-type "pivot" 'mon, etc.), and in a lot of cases other teams are better prepared, running bug-types like esca or sd pinsir (still the man :> ), cb drudd, actual pursuit / baits as i mentioned, and so forth. i'm not going to go as far as to call the core outright "bad", since it still is moderately effective at checking generalized stuff and can probably get by if you're just laddering around, but i'd be lying if i were to say that it's some kind of big problem for most teams.
  11. Explorer

    Explorer

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    Some other Pokemon to consider for handling Galvantula:
    Crustle provides both Stealth Rock and Spikes and thus really helps to wear Galvantula down, plus it has STAB Stone Edge
    Aggron/Gigalith/Golem are in a similar boat to Crustle, but it cannot switch in on some moves
    Steelix easily handles Galvantula without HP Ground
    Wacan Berry Moltres is a situational check to Galvantula
    Trick Room makes Galvantula a liability, so any Trick Room setter not weak to either of Galvantula's STABs does well, such as Dusknoir
    Scarf Typhlosion/Magmortar/Moltres destroys non-Scarf Galvantula
    Choice-locked Galvantula can be handled by Ground-types with good prediction
    Escavalier can take any single hit outside of HP Fire and nail Galvantula with Megahorn
    Absol can trap it

    However note none of these are hard counters, besides the Rock-types with a Sturdy intact, so I'd recommend packing at least two Pokemon from this list. Crustle and Typhlosion in particular work nicely with TanKing for synergy and hazard support.
  12. EonX

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    I wouldn't say special walls are a complete stop to an Offensive TanKing core considering Choice Specs Slowking runs Psyshock and possibly Trick as well. That being said, I do think the core is much more managable now than it was in the early days of RU and I'll list a few reasons as to why:

    Escavalier: This is perhaps the worst offender. With a brutal STAB Megahorn and base 135 Attack, neither Slowking nor Tangrowth stand much of a chance against it. It doesn't help that Escavalier is perhaps the 3rd best Sleep Talk user in the tier (behind Emboar and Druddigon) which allows it to quite easily absorb Tangrowth's Sleep Powder.

    Druddigon: This is another major offender. Druddigon's Choice Band and Mixed sets can easily plow through the core and the CB set is the likely the 2nd best Sleep Talk user in the tier (behind Emboar) The only hope the core has is for Slowking to successfully burn Druddigon with Scald.

    Samurott: Samurott isn't too common, but the fact that mixed Samurott is a p. good thing makes it harder to use any Regernator core. Mixed Samurott is one of the best core breakers in the tier and TanKing is no exception. Tangrowth is soundly OHKOed by Ice Beam while Slowking is 2HKOed by Megahorn and can only threaten a status condition.

    Emboar/Absol: The rise of these two threats, their mixed sets in particular, really hurts TanKing. Absol easily beats Slowking with Night Slash and can use Fire Blast to lure out and KO Tangrowth. Emboar's Fire STAB spells doom for Tangrowth while Wild Charge can take care of Slowking. It doesn't help that Emboar's choiced sets are amazing Sleep Talk users.

    There are probably others and there's the stuff there always has been to combat TanKing (Galvantula, Manectric, etc.) but I feel the rise of these threats has made it quite easy to deal with TanKing without having to over-prepare for it.
  13. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]

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    Durant
    [​IMG]
    Durant is a rlly good poke in the metagame with quite a few sets. CB, hc and scarf are all great in the current metagame imo-all play differently but are all effective. CB is a fantastic wallbreaker and hole puncher thanks to its coverage and immense power, hone claws is a solid sweeper and is still a very effective breaker with LO. Scarf isn't onsite, but I've been using it a lot lately and its a solid revenge killer thanks to its coverage and the power of hustle.

    So what do you guys think about durant, and how do you deal with it? For me durant is probably the hardest poke in the tier to deal with if I don't run emboar, so I'd like to hear how you guys deal with the ant :]
  14. SilentVerse

    SilentVerse Into the New World
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    Yeah, I honestly feel that Durant is probably one of the most dangerous Pokemon in the tier right now, and like I've said on IRC a bunch of times, I feel that it definitely is so good that it might even deserve a suspect test. Unlike a lot of other really powerful offensive threats, Durant has the speed and power needed to really threaten both fast-paced and slower teams, and when you consider that it also has a fantastic typing and deceptively good physical bulk, it can be incredibly difficult to deal with when it's well played and doesn't miss. As far as dealing with Durant though, probably the easiest way to have a decent answer to it is to slap Choice Scarf Emboar / Qwilfish onto your teams. From my experience, if you have one of these two Pokemon on your team, you can at least be partially safe from the ant, though if the ant player predicts very well, Durant can still get past them (CB Superpower OHKOes Emboar on the switch, Qwilfish is 2HKOed by CB Thunder Fang after Stealth Rock). For the most part though, they give you a solid switch in to Durant's STABs, which is definitely appreciated since Durant's STABs are just so incredibly destructive. Steelix is also an OK answer, though taking so much from Superpower is a bit of a pain, and Alomomola can wall Durant so long as it isn't Hone Claws + Lum Berry. Faster specially-offensive Pokemon can also check Durant to an extent, but they generally won't be able to switch in so they can only come in to revenge kill it. I guess you can also "play around" it with a bunch of Pokemon that resist it's moves, but this is risky and not always very effective due to just how fast Durant is. Other than that though, there's not really much else that answers Durant very effectively, other than hoping that it misses at an untimely moment.
  15. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    Agreeing with Silvershadow234 and Silentverse that Durant is an incredibly powerful Pokemon in the metagame as long as you don't get incredibly unlucky with Hustle rolls thanks to its combination of Speed, typing, and (Hustle Boosted) power. Durant (and Escavalier for that matter) are some of the Pokemon i think about most when teambuilding, as leaving your team open to them can be potentially painful. Personally my two favorite Durant sets in the current metagame are Choice Band and Lum Hone Claws. The former is simply incredibly good at punching holes in the opponents team and putting offensive pressure on the opponent whenever it switches in, although missing can be infuriating at times. Wheras Hone Claws with a Lum Berry can be a quite incredible late game sweeper, especially considering Durant is actually relatively recent to priority. I never really found Durant needed the extra power of a Life Orb after a Hone Claws boost, so i always opt for a Lum Berry to potentially gain more set up opportunities and get past teams that rely on crippling Durant to stop it. As for playing against Durant, most of the time i just pack a Qwilfish or Emboar when i feel like i'll have trouble with Durant otherwise, but there are a few other ways to check Durant that haven't been mentioned yet. Poliwrath is a pretty solid answer to Durant as long as it remains healthy enough to take a boosted Superpower or Thunder Fang, resisting both STAB moves along with any Rock-type coverage Durant might carry and either hitting it with a Scald or phazing the ant out with Circle Throw. Do note though that Poliwrath lacks reliable recovery and can often get overwhelmed if relied on too much for physical threats. Choice Scarf and Bulky varients of Rotom-N can help deal with Durant as well, Choice Scarf Rotom can take pretty much any hit except a Choice Band Rock Slide after Stealth Rock from Durant thanks to its typing and poses an immediate threat in return with Choice Scarf Thunderbolt or Volt Switch, the former of which OHKOing after Stealth Rock and the latter grabbing the user momentum, great one time check. Bulky Rotom can take hits from Hone Claws Durant pretty well and can either 2HKO with Thunderbolt or attempt to burn Durant in return, making it a pretty solid check, just be aware of prior damage. Lastly, Choice Scarf Magneton is a pretty good way to deal with Durant, as it resists any hit Durant can throw at it except a Superpower, outspeeds, and OHKOs with Thunderbolt. Unlike other Fast Special Attackers though, Choice Scarf Magneton has Magnet Pull, meaning Durant is as good as dead once Magneton gets onto the field.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2013
  16. EonX

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    Agreeing that Durant is an incredibly potent Pokemon in the current meta right now. Most of my teams end up being weak to it one way or another. As SilentVerse and Molk have broken down the ant's limited checks and counters, I'll break down each of its sets in order of effectiveness:

    Choice Band: Most agree that this is Durant's best set in the current metagame. Considering Durant has a hard time setting up due to the ubiquity of Choice Scarf Emboar and Rotom-C, Choice Band is an amazing item to throw on Durant. It lets Durant hit stupid hard right off the bat, and as long as you predict the switch-in correctly, shit's getting wrecked. Hustle makes it miss at the worst times, but it's an incredible wallbreaker and still has the raw Speed to sweep late-game when presented with the opportunity.

    Lum Berry + Hone Claws: While this Durant isn't capable of breaking down walls like the Choice Band set, it stands a much better chance at sweeping. Generally, you want to use Durant's deceptively decent physical bulk to find a setup opportunity and proceed to impose your will on the opposing team with Durant's solid coverage. Although three of the best Choice Scarf users in the tier can revenge kill it with little effort (Rotom-C, Emboar, and Braviary) it can force your opponent to play much safer with these threats than they would like due to the sheer threat of a possible HC boost.

    Choice Scarf: Although this set isn't on-site, I've actually had quite a bit of success with it. Instead of relying on its amazing power, Durant can use its great Speed to revenge kill some p. serious threats. It outspeeds +2 Omastar, +1 Lilligant, and just about every other boosted threat in the tier thanks to its great Speed. I personally use Adamant with Swarm for the reliability it brings, but Hustle is possible due to the power boost. Just beware that it makes all of the moves on your primary revenge killer have a measly 80% accuracy (AKA, everything is Stone Edge) if you use Hustle. The main reason Scarf Durant can run Adamant is that it misses out on just two relevant threats; Scarf Manectric and Scarf Typhlosion, the latter of which is neither very good nor something Durant should stay in on to begin with. I also run Baton Pass on this set as Iron Head hits nothing that Stone Edge and Superpower can't and it lets me preserve Durant if my opponent happens to have a Magneton.
  17. Tyki7125

    Tyki7125

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    Molk told me to post here so I guess I am. Gotta start somewhere.

    About Durant, I agree that it is a very top tier threat. It has a very nice typing and very nice offensive stats and can run a multitude of sets that keeps the opponent guessing, not to be redundant of course.

    One set that I find very underrated though is is the AdaScarf Swarm Durant that EonX was talking about. Yes, it does not have the raw power as a Swarm Durant may have, though the Adamant makes up for that. Its speed is high enough to make it work, and the Scarf really catches people off guard who expect to out speed it with a slower Scarfer or something. You don't run the risk of missing X-Scissor and Iron Head, and if you do get into Swarm range, X-Scissor may as well be Hustle boosted. you don't need to set up Hone Claws and you can revenge kill much easier and reliably.

    The main reason why Hustle isn't used on Scarf Durant is because of that miss chance. Scarf Durant is primarily used (at least for me) as something to come in on a death, and revenge kill right after. However, after the revenge, Durant can keep going with it's very nice coverage, speed and power. One miss will ruin both the revenge and the mini sweep, and because of Durant's nonexistent Special Defense it will die if it misses. Even better, the only Special priority is the uncommon Vacuum Wave, meaning that the best way to kill a scarf Durant is by using a faster Scarfer (fuck HP Fire Cinccino).

    I do like the idea of Baton Pass, though it has many options for the last coverage move.
  18. spuds4ever

    spuds4ever

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    I've been using durant a lot recently and it is godly to be fair to it. Lum HC is what I've been using and I really like it as it's one of the few set up sweepers that has a lot of utility early to mid game. For example, it can take down smeargle and uxie leads thanks to its lum berry and high speed (it is a little shaky smeargle counter, though) or can save it so it can land a hit on a check like qwilfish and come in and finish the job later.

    However, what I want to discuss mostly in this post is this monster right here:
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]


    Basically, Torterra is the perfect wrecking ball for destroying the popular bulky offense teams that are running rampant on the ladder, the set I've been using quite successfully has been Swords Dance Torterra. Here:

    Torterra @leftovers/Lum berry
    Ability: Overgrow
    EVs: 156 HP, 252 Atk, 100 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    -Swords Dance
    -Wood Hammer
    -Earthquake
    -Stone Edge

    Basically, this guy is a nightmare to stop defensively (not even defensive tangrowth can beat it provided it's already used sleep powder). It gets a good few opportunities to set up, especially thanks to its handy t-wave immunity, making stuff like qwilfish easy fodder though usually it's easier to set up by forcing something out, which torterra does no problem. Once it's set up, I'll show you a few calcs:

    Show Hide
    +2 252+ Atk Torterra Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 304-358 (88.62 - 104.37%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    +2 252+ Atk Torterra Earthquake vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Druddigon: 346-408 (97.74 - 115.25%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    +2 252+ Atk Torterra Earthquake vs. 156 HP / 0 Def Bouffalant: 331-390 (89.45 - 105.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    +2 252+ Atk Torterra Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 632-746 (118.35 - 139.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    +2 252+ Atk Torterra Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 88 Def Amoonguss: 378-445 (87.5 - 103%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock


    On top of this, it has really nice bulk for an offensive pokemon that isn't absurdly slow, being able to take stuff like LO Gallade Close Combat, Rhydon's Megahorn, and Feraligatr's +2 LO waterfall (without SR on the field for the latter). I've been using torterra in an offensive core with CB emboar and HC durant which has been working pretty nicely as they pivot of eachother's counters quite well but more importantly, they're immune to all status between them apart from druddigon's glare. It's main problem is fire types, but with drudd and king being so popular, it's not difficult to get some good synergy with it.
  19. EonX

    EonX Rise Above
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
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    While I'm not so sure on SD Torterra, it certainly is a good offensive Pokemon in the current meta. It actually tanks neutral physical hits better than Pivot Amoonguss... and that's without any investment in its defenses! While SD Terra can certainly catch people off guard, this is the offensive set I've been using with Torterra lately:

    [​IMG]
    Torterra (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Overgrow / Shell Armor
    EVs: 72 HP / 224 Atk / 212 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Wood Hammer
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Synthesis

    This is, like, the best offensive counter to Aggron in the tier. It resists Head Smash, is actually heavy enough without a Steel weakness (hi Rhydon) and only fears Fire Punch (which fails to OHKO and Terra outspeeds) Torterra actually matches up well against most of the defensive Pokemon in the tier (fuk you Tangrowth) thanks to its STAB moves. Wood Hammer crushes Water-types like Slowking and Alomomola and gives Rhydon the ol' finger. Earthquake is cool to hit Amoonguss decently hard and beat Steelix and Qwilfish one-on-one. Also destroys Aggron. Stone Edge is mainly used to catch Flying-types. Think Moltres, Sigilyph, and Braviary. Synthesis is really cool though. This lets Torterra hang around throughout the match to constantly pressure the opposing team's defensive core and to mitigate recoil damage taken from Wood Hammer. The EV spread gives Torterra a little extra bulk and makes sure that it always outspeeds Aggron (outside of the odd Jolly variants) which is the biggest threat that Terra can shut down. Basically, if your team is weak to Aggron and you can afford the use of a Grass-type, use this set. Both abilities are useful (which is why both are slashed) Overgrow gives Wood Hammer some extra pop to it if Terra is low on health and has served its purpose already. Shell Armor makes sure that Aggron (or anything else for that matter) doesn't get an untimely crit with Fire Punch if it predicts the switch-in.
  20. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold hommies
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

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    [​IMG]
    Slowking @ Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    - Scald
    - Dragon Tail / Psyshock
    - Slack Off
    - Thunder Wave

    I make this set recently; is just a twist in overall that I did from the standard set, the novelty here is Rocky Helmet + Full Physically Defensive Slowking with Dragon Tail; this allows to check much better physical threats like Emboar, Entei, Druddigon, fightyng spam and also deal with one of the big problems for Slowking: Pursuit. With a physical spread means that if you switch out to Pursuit you can get in again Slowking, while that a mixed wall Slowking is gonna fail and will be dead. Rocky Helmet helps against physical mons such Emboar or Klinkang, you can play much better with this Slowking around stuff like Druddigon or people is gonna expect a much less bulkier Slowking like against Aggron CB which should wrecks you in 1 vs 1. About the movepool, Scald and Slack Off are mandatory for defensive Slowking, Thunder Wave is necessary for this set to beat some stuff easier or predicting some switch mostly against more offensive teams, finally Dragon Tail is really cool on this set because physical and works like parashuffler thanks to Thunder Wave, Slack Off and Dragon Tail, while the opponent many times cant touch you with a physical move because Rocky Helmet, this is because I run Relaxed nature to a stronger Dragon Tail! Psyshock can work as well on last move but this usually helps more against some special threats which now you can handle worst but you can play around them anyways

    Some relevant calcs:

    252+ Atk Life Orb Druddigon Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowking: 220-261 (55.97 - 66.41%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252 Atk Emboar Wild Charge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowking: 158-186 (40.2 - 47.32%) -- 3.91% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowking: 137-162 (34.86 - 41.22%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

    252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowking: 173-204 (44.02 - 51.9%) -- 78.52% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ Atk Choice Band Aggron Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowking: 297-351 (75.57 - 89.31%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ Atk Choice Band Escavalier Pursuit switch out vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowking: 246-290 (62.59 - 73.79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ Atk BlackGlasses Spiritomb Pursuit switch out vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowking: 228-270 (58.01 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  21. Celever

    Celever

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
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    [​IMG]
    I would like to see some discussion on Hariyama. I have found Hariyama to be often over-looked in a tier filled to the brim with Fighting-Type Pokemon. This is apparent, since looking at last month's usage stats Gallade, Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan, Emboar, Medicham beat it-- this is actually ever Fighting-Type in RU except for Hitmonchan. The same can be said for the 1850 stats, too. So why is Hariyama so unpopular? I've noticed a general consensus that Hariyama is really bad, but with a colossal attack stat beaten only by Emboar, Escavalier and Rhydon in RU (even more than Aggron!) and with Medicham and Hitmonlee actually tying with it it is extremely powerful. Now as you can see Medicham and Hitmonlee have the same attack stats, so that would be why they are used more, right? Well, Hariyama also has Guts, which boosts it's attack to the highest second highest third highest (SilverShadow informed me that Choice Band Escav hits harder... and then he informed me that Choice Band Medicham does too) in RU. Now, I understand that Hariyama is extremely slow, but this gives it a good place on teams using Pokemon such as Slowking, a great Trick Room setter who uses it for himself. Hariyama also gets access to various priority attacks; Fake Out gives it some free damage that usually does quite a lot thanks to it's colossal attack stat. Unfortunately, he doesn't learn Mach Punch, however he does learn Bullet Punch. Bullet Punch, even though it doesn't get STAB, is still pretty powerful and good for picking off some threats. Hariyama is also incredibly bulky, with 144 base HP, the highest in RU by FAR (Lanturn is second, with 125 base HP). Counting NU, Alomomola IS higher but she just has way too much HP to be good for her... For an offensive Pokemon, that HP stat is huge, and while his defenses are actually pretty... bad... (60/60) his HP picks up the slack to make him the best mixed defensive Fighting-Type in RU. Gallade and Hitmonchan suffer from poor Physical Defense, whereas Hariyama is pretty good in both aspects. One of the big issues with Hariyama is when you use a Flame Orb; people do this a lot for the extra power, but this is actually a large hindrance to Hariyama's bulk. I usually run Guts to absorb things such as the renowned Cosmic Power Sigilyph, Scalds from Alomomola or Will-O-Wisps from Spiritomb if need be; otherwise I find he is powerful enough as it is. There is a large reason to use Flame Orb though; and that is because Hariyama is a FANTASTIC wall-breaker. Bulky, Powerful and Slow is a rather generic wallbreaker, but Hariyama is so powerful it doesn't need a Choice Band and as such it can switch moves as much as it wants. Choice Band Sheer Force is decent though.

    So what are your favourite sets of Hariyama? Good sets, good partners or good counters?

    Silvershadow also said some calcs would be a good idea:
    252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Hariyama Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 381-448 (71.34 - 83.89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Hariyama Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 204-242 (50.49 - 59.9%) -- 83.98% chance to 2HKO
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2013
  22. Kirbles

    Kirbles

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2013
    Messages:
    125
    Everyone knows Hariyamas best set is sheer force fakeout

    Hariyamas HP means that it can 123HP subs, Its just a shame it can't baton pass them to other teammates such as Durant to allow them to set up.
    Its also a shame that Hariyama can't learn Drain punch which probably sets it back a bit as it can't run a nice Sub bulk up set with additional healing.
    Offensivly its movepool is pretty barren outside of Normal/Fighting type moves, the most notable moves not of those types being the Elemental punches/Stone edge/EQ/Iron head
    Its low 40 Special attack also means it can't abuse a mix set with Surf and HP for coverage
    Saying that, it has a few other tricks up its sleeve

    [​IMG]
    Hariyama @ Leftovers
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 SDef / 248 HP / 8 Def (I'm not good with EVs so...)
    Careful Nature
    - Knock Off
    - Substitute
    - Whirlwind
    - Force Palm

    I think its obvious what this set does. And i think it goes without saying that it works best when rocks/spikes are up
    This set is somewhat of a parashuffler, Knock off helps by removing useful items and allowing hazards to deal more damage by not letting them heal with leftovers. Substitute helps as Hariyama has no means of instant recovery aside from rest so unless you want to use chesto rest then this is probably the safest option. Force palm has a nice 30% chance of Paralyzing (And if scald has taught me anything 30% = 100%) so it slowers the opponent and helps other team mates deal with them. Whirlwind then allows Hariyama to phaze to stop setting up/deal additional damage by hazards



    [​IMG]
    Hariyama @ Damp Rock/Heat Rock
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 SDef / 248 HP / 8 Def (Same again, not good with Evs)
    Careful Nature
    - Fake Out
    - Rain Dance/Sunny day
    - Cross Chop
    - Toxic/Ice punch

    Lead Hariyama
    To be fair, there are probably other mons better at doing this, but hey.
    With nice bulk and fake out, Hariyama makes a nice weather summoner for weather teams, Fake out is to deal small damage on the switch ins. Rain dance/Sunny day are the main points of this and with the respective items they last for 7 turns and allows time to switch to other mons. The last two moves are so Hariyama isn't useless after setting up weather Cross chop is its strongest attack that doesn't lower defense and Toxic is to help with Pokemon such as Slowking whilst Ice punch gets more coverage and allows Hariyama to hit Flying/ghost types.
  23. Explorer

    Explorer

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    Messages:
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    I have used Hariyama as a weather-setter too, particularly for sun teams, but I generally use a physically defensive set:

    [​IMG]

    Hariyama (M) @ Heat Rock/Leftovers
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 Spe
    Nature: Impish
    -Sunny Day
    -Cross Chop
    -Stone Edge
    -Toxic/Ice Punch/Fire Punch

    The physically defensive set with Thick Fat allows Hariyama to tank many attacks very well, and it is more or less a hard counter to every Aggron set out there (if Aggron got Psycho Cut then maybe not, but Aggron has enough coverage moves to choose from as it is). Running Thick Fat also lets it handle Entei and Emboar fairly well--Entei in particular fears Hariyama's Stone Edge, so Fire-types can be removed before you set up sun. Other threats trying to switch in on a Fighting STAB, namely Moltres, are demolished by Stone Edge. Finally, Toxic is the best option to handle physical walls Hariyama can't break down such as Alomamola and Tangrowth, but Ice Punch is another option for Ground-types, namely physically defensive Torterra, and it also has 100% accuracy. If you really want Hariyama to abuse the sun itself, Fire Punch can be run, but it is really only good for Escavalier.

    Sadly even though Hariyama is my favorite of the Fighting-types in general I almost always use something else, typically Hitmonlee. Still, Hariyama is bulkier than any of the other Fighting-types in the tier and has immense firepower to back itself up. Therefore it is my fighting-type of choice for weather-setting.
  24. The TurtleLord

    The TurtleLord

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Messages:
    171
    OMG torterra is my all time fav pokemon (he's a fucking giant turtle with a mountain on his back!!!)

    Anyways, I've been using the same sd set as spuds4ever and have found its power just astonishing, ripping apart practically all defensive mons. Imo his best partner is cb entei w/ sleep talk. This set deals with tangrowth easily (probably one of the only defensive pokemon not afraid of torterra) and entei has a good speed and access to extreme speed, making up for torterras lack of speed. The 2 cover their weaknesses quite well, with entei resisting bug, ice and fire while torterra resists the common edge-quake, giving them lots of opportunities to switch in.
  25. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas on good days I am charming as fuck
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    So I have a couple cool sets that I would like to talk about, I by no means invented them or anything, but I just find them to be really underutilized. These sets I find to be especially useful on Volt-Turn teams, which is definitely one of the most threatening playstyles in RU atm with plenty of good abusers. Two of such can be found here:

    [​IMG]

    cuttin' (Rotom-Mow) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 24 HP / 252 SAtk / 232 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Leaf Storm
    - Volt Switch
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Thunderbolt

    This is a super cool set, as most things think you are choiced, luring in stuff like Gallade or something to set up on you, but they can be stopped with a swift will-o-wisp to the face. This also allows you to soften the hit for whatever you volt-switch too, making it a good team player. I chose expert belt, because I want to bluff the choice set and the EVs are for timid Magmortar (I think I don't actually remember, lol). This is a variation of support rotom-c on site, but I think my changes make it a little less predictable, and a little more useful, cool set either way, please try it out.

    Another cool member for volt-turn, or any team for that matter:

    [​IMG]

    nappin' (Uxie) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 152 Def / 104 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - U-turn
    - Yawn
    - Stealth Rock
    - Psychic

    This is the standard SR support set on sight, except I chose to use the second slash, yawn, over thunderwave. Yawn should really be the first slash however, as I can just come in and take advantage of Uxie's great defenses to tank a hit, yawn to force it out, and gain momentum with u-turn. Even if they stay in to absorb the sleep uxie isn't dead weight as it can still tank hits and u-turn to something for momentum. This is just a really underutilized set in the current meta (yawn is only on 10% of Uxie, while SR is on like 70%).

    What do you guys think, any underutilized/cool volt-turn mons/sets (CS or encore Primeape :o), share them please :).

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