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np: RU stage 16 - Ding Dong The Witch is Dead

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Molk, Apr 1, 2013.

  1. Detective Scruffy

    Detective Scruffy

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    This is actually a very interesting set! I didn't remember that all rotom forms get Will-o-wisp. I think that it is a very usable set because it burns things that counter it(like Drud) and then VoltSwitches out. So i will definitely try this out!

    On to a set of mine. Although not very original it has helped me very much


    Archeops @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Defeatist
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Hidden Power [Flying]
    - Heat Wave
    - AncientPower
    - Earth Power

    Specs Archeops has much potential in RU. Earth Power and Ancientpower give near perfect coverage( all hail baltoy!). Heat wave is for Escavalier and Durant. Hidden Power Flying is for OHKO'ing Tangrowth and hitting Fighting types for good damage.
  2. EonX

    EonX @TheEonX
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    Hm, never liked any choiced Archeops due to the SR weakness and Defeatist (I think it also effects Special Attack, but I may not be interpreting Defeatist correctly) As for VoltTurn sets that I feel aren't utilized as much, I do have a couple to contribute here:

    [​IMG]
    Braviary (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Defiant
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Brave Bird
    - Return
    - Superpower
    - U-turn

    I feel like Braviary isn't used enough in general, but its Choice Band set is incredibly destructive. (you've heard me talk enough about Choice Scarf Braviary) Unlike most physical attackers that can at least be checked by Qwilfish's Intimidate to let a teammate better handle it, Braviary actually benefits from this thanks to Defiant, giving it a net +1 Attack after both abilities activate. Brave Bird literally 2HKOes every single wall in the tier bar Steelix and Rhydon. However, the recoil can be off-putting at times when you don't need that ridiculous power. In such cases, Return is a good secondary STAB to spam since it still hits pretty dang hard and leaves just Momo and Tangrowth safe from a 2HKO (again, outside of Steelix and Rhydon) Superpower flips the table on Steelix and Rhydon. Thanks to the power boost from Choice Band, 2 simple predictions will eliminate them from the match, thus freeing up Braviary to spam its STAB moves. (it also crushes Aggron who 4x resists Normal and Flying) U-turn makes it quite difficult to be safe against CB Braviary (as if it wasn't hard enough in the first place) as it gains the ability to escape from its only 2 counters, Steelix and Rhydon, safely and let a teammate force them out (think stuff like Torterra, Mixed Emboar, Samurott, etc.) Since they have no reliable recovery (Rhydon has none period) it's quite easy to wear them down in this manner with entry hazards. As far as working in VoltTurn cores, Braviary provides a physical nuke to use that can still be used in a tactical manner thanks to U-turn, its Ground immunity, and decent 100 / 75 / 75 bulk. The EVs outspeed Smeargle, Absol, and anything else below the base 75 crowd and also outspeeds all neutral base 80s. Of course, you can just max Speed, but I do like the buffer provided by the HP EVs to the recoil taken from Brave Bird and possible resisted hits. (living EBelt Magmortar's Fire Blast after BB recoil by 2% rocks) You could run Adamant just to show no mercy, but eh, I like to outspeed Smeargle and U-turn into a sleep absorber. I find Torterra works really well with Braviary as they really handle defensive cores quite nicely and can open up a sweep for a teammate (or Torterra itself if you use the Rock Polish set) Another one though, would be this guy:

    [​IMG]
    Rotom-C @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 48 HP / 248 SAtk / 212 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Volt Switch
    - Leaf Storm
    - Hidden Power [Fire] or [Ice]

    Rotom-C is arguably the best Scarfer in the tier, but the Specs set is really cool as well. This set can better take advantage of Rotom-C's resistances and can bring quite a bit to the table for VoltTurn teams. For starters, it's only one of two Volt Switch users that are immune to Ground-type moves while retaining a way to eliminate most Pokemon that can block Volt Switch (Eelektross being the other) However, Rotom-C is much faster and has a secondary Grass typing that lets it bring crucial resistances to Grass- and Water-type moves. Leaf Storm just hurts like hell. It can 2HKO Tangrowth and Sceptile after SR and OHKO Galvantula after SR... and they all resist the move! HP Fire beats Ferroseed and gives a strong hit on Escavalier (who can still tank a TBolt if needed) and Durant. HP Ice smacks Druddigon and retains coverage on Grass-types, but you may struggle with Ferroseed and Escavalier a bit more. Specs Rotom-C works pretty well with Emboar and most other Fire-types since it can easily punch through what they struggle against. Emboar is the most notable though since it can absorb sleep from defensive Grass-types and run a Choice Scarf to clean up late. Another would be Shell Smash Omastar as Rotom-C easily beats or weakens Omastar's checks and is a magnet for the likes of Entei, Emboar, and Swellow, especially after the opponent figures out you aren't Scarfed. For teammates on VoltTurn teams, Scarf Braviary and any Manectric set can finish off an opposing team (the three together can really do some work as both easily break down Steelix and Rhydon)
  3. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest Screw Water Druddigon
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    Yes, Defeatist cuts both of Archeops's offensive stats if it gets below 50%, you are in fact right. As for VoltTurn, let me weigh in here too! (prepare for a really long post lol)

    [​IMG]
    Mesprit @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Psychic
    - Thunderbolt / Ice Beam
    - U-turn

    Mesprit is a great choice to put on a VoltTurn team because of its bulk and access to U-turn. It also has access to Stealth Rock; and this is nice because hazards are excellent on VoltTurn since the U-turn/Volt Switch will enforce a lot of switching so wearing stuff down while VoltTurning is neat. Mesprit also has nice bulk so it can come in and hit decently hard, while U-turn allows it to grab momentum off the bat. Psychic and either Thunderbolt or Ice Beam provide decent coverage, and although Mesprit isn't remarkably powerful; its damage output is still decent enough to cut it. Levitate is also a great ability, so while Mesprit is constantly U-turning out, it doesn't have to worry about Spikes, which are indeed becoming rather ubiquitous. It has usable resistances to Fighting and Ground so it can come in on some attacks, and its bulk isn't that great but it's feasible. Mesprit also pairs up decently with other VoltTurn members such as Primeape and Manectric. In fact, any of Mesprit's on site sets that have U-turn can fit the bill here, I just put the SR one up for a good example.

    [​IMG]
    Primeape @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Vital Spirit
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn
    - Ice Punch

    Primeape is also a good choice to put on a VoltTurn team, and despite its fall to NU, Primeape is still very viable. It's got a really nice Speed tier at 95, which is very good for a Scarfer, and it can outspeed numerous threats in the tier; especially Shell Smash Omastar, which is great because Omastar is a monster atm. It can U-turn pretty quickly, and it lures in threats like Spiritomb and Uxie, and can just U-turn right out to get in a partner like Absol or something. Primeape is also resistant to Stealth Rock, which is nice, although it still gets wrecked by Spikes. Its Close Combat is decently powerful with its usable Attack stat; it's not enough to do extreme damage, but it's pretty decent for a fast revenge killer (and it OHKOes Omastar so Primeape is feasible as an Oma check). Stone Edge and Ice Punch are just there for decent coverage against things like Scolipede and Golurk, which can comfortably come in on a Close Combat. Primeape admires hazards so it can easily do its job as both a revenge killer and fast scout, and is great on a VoltTurn team. If you're looking for something on VoltTurn, definitely give this guy a shot.

    All in all, I like VoltTurn, and it's really good in conjunction with Spikes and Stealth Rock to chip down opponents between Volt Switch and U-turn, and can break some defensive cores, and get something to clean up later. Speaking of hazards, that brings me to this.

    Spikes

    Spikes are really good in the current metagame imo. While Stealth Rock is often better, Spikes can easily chip off a whopping 1/4 of each Pokemon's health upon their entry, which is really nice. This means some walls like Steelix and Spiritomb will get defeated more easily, and many Pokemon dislike Spikes because it cuts their lifespan much more quickly. There are plenty of Spikes users available, and here's two I've been taking a liking to lately.

    [​IMG]
    Scolipede @ Life Orb
    Trait: Swarm
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Spikes
    - Megahorn
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide / Toxic Spikes

    Fast spiking is something I like, and Scolipede is pretty awesome at the job. It's not as good as Smeargle, obviously, but Scolipede definitely has its perks. Aside from the fact that Scolipede is 100% manly, it's pretty fast, and is faster than most of the metagame, and can quickly set up Spikes. LO Spikes has been one of my favorite Scolipede sets so far; it's really consistent. It sets up hazards, but Scolipede also hits pretty decently hard with LO Megahorn, along with QuakeSlide coverage to back it up, so it also poses a very strong offensive threat on its own. Bug STAB is also pretty good to have atm, hitting a good portion of the tier for good damage. Overall this has been a very consistent spiker for me when I need it.

    [​IMG]
    Roselia @ Eviolite
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature
    - Spikes
    - Giga Drain
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Synthesis / Toxic Spikes

    Roselia is really good in RU atm, and it's kinda disappointing that it managed to drop to NU imo. It checks a lot of special threats like Galvantula, Sceptile, Omastar, Lilligant, and Rotom-C, and hence gets plenty of opportunities to get Spikes up. In general it's also a good special wall, handling those special threats and supporting its team with Spikes, or maybe Toxic Spikes if you're up for it. It's also got a decent Special Attack and usable STABs, so it also poses a threat to the thing's it's supposed to. It's pretty physically frail and is bad at escaping Pursuit from Escavalier and Spiritomb, and its physical fraility does hold it back some. Nonetheless, Roselia is a pretty good spiker and is decent for a bulky one (if Qwilfish isn't your cup of tea, that is).

    So what do you think about Spikes and how they impact the tier? What are your favorite choices for a Spiker?
  4. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    Like Scraftyisthebest i often use Mesprit on Volturn teams and the like for its access to U-turn, solid bulk, decent bulk, and pretty solid stats all around. However, i use a slightly different set that i like quite a bit better.

    [​IMG]
    Mesprit @ Leftovers / Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - U-turn
    - Psychic
    - Thunderbolt
    - Healing Wish

    Instead of opting for Stealth Rock on Mesprit, instead i opt to use Healing Wish which is imo one of the things that makes mesprit so threatening, as it can sacrifice itself at any time when no longer needed and fully heal a teammate for another round, which can of course make or break a game (my favorite volturn team doesn't even have a Pokemon with Stealth Rock actually lol). Anyways. Because of Mesprit's good bulk, it makes a pretty good offensive pivot on both volturn and non volturn teams, and is especially useful against teams with quite a few Ground/Fighting moves or things that are weak to Psychic-type moves such as Qwilfish. Mesprit can come in on these Pokemon and moves easily and pose an immediate threat between a combination of its good coverage and offensive stats, often forcing the opponent out and giving me a free opportunity to do chip damage and get out of there with U-turn, which is nice because a lot of mesprit checks are either weak to U-turn (Absol) or lack reliable recovery (Spiritomb), meaning the U-turn damage adds up quite a bit after a while. If Mesprit is no longer useful in the match, i can just fodder it with Healing Wish at any time and heal up something really dangerous such as Specs Moltres for the cleanup, which is a great thing to be able to do in a pinch. Both Leftovers and Choice Scarf work pretty well on this Mesprit. Leftovers gives Mesprit a bit more longevity and lets it take more hits throughout the match, while Choice Scarf makes Mesprit a solid.

    As for other Pokemon i like on Volturn teams, Natu is a personal favorite of mine (don't laugh :/). It might not have much when it comes to stats, but Magic Bounce is great to have on a volturn team, especially on a Pokemon with Eviolite bolstered bulk (not *that* bulky but it can take hits from hazard setters for just long enough to be useful), a slowish U-turn, and reliable recovery, making natu a great weapon against hazard setters. Outside of hazards Magic Bounce is useful for bouncing back and discouraging other moves such as Toxic and Spore, which is great considering how annoying these status problems can be. Personally i almost always use Reflect/Roost/Night Shade/U-turn, which lets me block hits from some of the stronger rocks setters, recover, keep up the momentum, and stop natu from being set up bait with a fixed damage move, respectively. Although i've heard people have used dual screens, Toxic, and Thunder Wave effectively on natu as well. What do you think about Natu? Is it worth using on Volturn teams because of its unique niche as the only available magic bounce user?
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2013
  5. Mylo Xyloto

    Mylo Xyloto

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    [​IMG] @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Shadow Ball
    - Thunderbolt / Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Trick

    Rotom-N is one of my favorites when it comes to fast scarfers and Volturn. Rotom-N has a pretty cool base 91 speed stat, with which it can outspeed every unboosted pokemon. It can even outspeed 'slower' scarfers like Emboar and Rotom-C. Rotom-N, with its excellent typing, can switch into common Fighting-, Bug-, Flying- and Electric-type attacks. With its Ghost-typing it can even block Rapid Spin and even threaten the best rapid spin user, Kabutops, with a STAB TBolt. It has pretty decent Special Attack sitting at base 95 with which it can hit hard with that cool STAB combination. Then there's Trick which stops walls cold. All in all, Rotom-N performs on a Volturn team.
  6. EonX

    EonX @TheEonX
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    I can't really comment on Molk 's point due to my lack of experience with Natu, but I will talk a little bit about the Spikers subject brought up by ScraftyIsTheBest :

    [​IMG]
    Ferroseed (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 248 HP / 248 Def / 12 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Spikes
    - Leech Seed
    - Thunder Wave
    - Gyro Ball

    It should come as no surprise that Ferroseed is one of my favorite Spikers. There's only 2 Pokemon that are exactly the same between the two teams I've done an RMT on (Eagle Sparks and Flare Swords) and Ferroseed is one of them. Ferroseed has an amazing defensive typing and a great support movepool to utilize with it. It easily checks Rotom-C, Druddigon, Kabutops, and Mesprit among others to find opportunities to setup Spikes. Leech Seed is really like a pseudo-phazing move since it heals Ferroseed and drains the opponent's health; really nice move to use if you're expecting anything other than a Grass-type to switch-in. Thunder Wave is amazing. I can't count how many times I've been able to cripple an incoming Fire-type with this thing and then just switch to whatever my check to that threat happens to be on my team. It's incredibly useful on my Flare Swords team where I don't even have a Scarf user and rely on priority to beat faster threats. Gyro Ball finishes it off and ensures that Sceptile can't just setup a Sub in my face. This is a really good thing if Ferroseed has nothing left to check and I simply need to get a safe switch-in to one of my offensive Pokemon without the risk of a predicted switch. The EVs simply optimize Ferroseed's defensive capabilities on the physical side while rounding down Spikes damage. Really cool Pokemon imo. You can even replace Thunder Wave on the set with something else. Protect is cool for stall teams since it just stalls out Leech Seed damage and scouts possible choiced opponents. Stealth Rock puts more pressure on Ferroseed to setup hazards, but it also can free up a teamslot. Seed Bomb is another move if you really need to keep Omastar from having a chance to setup AND sweep your team.
  7. unfixable

    unfixable

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    On VoltTurn teams I normally use a combination of Scyther + Magneton + Lanturn. It really is a great combo as Scyther can switch into all the Ground-types that give Magneton and Lanturn trouble, and also can take the Fighting-types that give Magneton trouble. Now, since Magneton and Scyther are both weak to Fire, Lanturn can handle the Fire-Types that can beat them both. Magneton can take on the Ice and Rock types that give Scyther trouble. I have found these three together form a very strong core together that can reliably beat Regenerator cores as well. They all have there merits, with Lanturn having good bulk, Scyther having high Attack and Speed, and Magneton having nice resistances and Special Attack. Here are their sets:

    [​IMG]
    Magneton @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Magnet Pull
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Flash Cannon

    Magneton works as a great pivot that can trap Steel-Types and pick them off. Thunderbolt hits like a truck, being capable of 2HKO'ing 252/252+ Slowking, one of the most common special walls in the tier. Volt Switch is very obvious to keep up momentum and switch away from it's counters. Hidden Power Fire reliably picks off Ferroseed and Steelix, while Flash Cannon provides a nice second STAB move. This set really covers its partners weaknesses. Of course, Magneton is a very great addition to any VoltTurn team.

    [​IMG]
    Scyther @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - U-turn
    - Aerial Ace
    - Quick Attack
    - Brick Break

    Choice Band Scyther is an amazing addition to any VoltTurn team, as it can keep up momentum while doing a great deal to any Pokemon that is not a Steel-Type. Ariel Ace hits like a truck with STAB and Technician, boost even further by Choice Band. Quick Attack is nice to pick off faster weakened opponents that are faster and can hit it before it escapes. Brick Break helps against a huge threat to VoltTurn teams, Steelix, that is why Lanturn should be used on many teams to beat the counter to VoltTurn. Scyther works well on VoltTurn teams, as they require Spin support anyways, to not soften them up as they keep up the momentum.

    [​IMG]
    Lanturn @ Leftovers
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Modest Nature
    - Scald
    - Volt Switch
    - Ice Beam
    - Discharge

    Lanturn fits well on VoltTurn teams as it provide bulk to fall back on. I prefer it over Galvantula or Manectric for the Water STAB and the bulk. Scald really aids the team as it can help with making it easier to switch in and out of Physical Pokemon such as Druddigon or Aggron. Ice Beam is nice to just get more damage on Druddigon or Amoonguss. Discharge is a nice second STAB that has the nice Paralysis chance. Lanturn is very underrated in my opinion, and can really check a lot of Pokemon.

    These three Pokemon provide a very nice core in my opinion, that can really handle a lot of the tier.
  8. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    That definitely looks like a very solid volturn core chesnaught (as long as you can keep rocks away of course). I've used Scyther and Lanturn on volturn teams before, and they work pretty well together because of their good overall synergy (Lanturn takes Fire, Electric, and Ice-type moves for Scyther, Scythe's immune to Earthquake and 4x resists Grass-type moves in return) and the combination of Lanturn's slow Volt Switch to get Scyther in for free, and Scyther's fast, strong U-turn to pose an immediate threat while scouting the opponent. Scyther in general is a good Pokemon to put on Volturn teams imo because of its combination of speed and power, and the vast majority of volturn teams i've used or faced have had Scyther in some form on them, very good option (i don't like Scyther too much outside of volturn though :s). What i hadn't thought of though is the idea of using Magneton with Scyther and Lanturn as well, which seems to work out pretty nicely as Magneton can trap some of the Steel-types that annoy Scyther, using Scyther's U-turn as they switch in to get in for free and take them out, making it that much easier to simply spam U-turn later on. Magneton helps against Cinccino too which can be quite annoying to this particular volturn core since it outpaces both Band Scyther and Lanturn and can threaten both with Rock Blast and Bullet Seed, respectively, meanwhile Scarf Magneton resists all these moves, outspeeds, and KOs with Thunderbolt or Volt Switches to gain the switch advantage. I think i'll give this core a try with magneton added on!
  9. EonX

    EonX @TheEonX
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    Not sure about Scarf Magneton being able to pick off Steelix, but it does pick off Durant very nicely and supports the Lanturn+Scyther VoltTurn core very well as both struggle a bit with Steel-types. As for my own VoltTurn core that I have grown fond of lately, it would have to be this one:

    [​IMG]
    Braviary (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Defiant
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Brave Bird
    - Return
    - Superpower
    - U-turn

    [​IMG]
    Uxie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 156 SDef / 104 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Yawn
    - Psychic
    - U-turn

    [​IMG]
    Manectric (M) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Lightningrod
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Flamethrower
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Volt Switch

    Mixed in with the offensive part is the defensive part. Basically, this is more of a wallbreaking VoltTurn core with a defensive Pokemon to pivot in to take hits and switch back out as necessary. This was actually a core I started using as I tested out the various aspects of Manectric's Special Attacker set as I was writing up its analysis. Anyway, I already mentioned CB Braviary, but it just straight mauls stuff. If you don't see a Steelix, Rhydon, or Aggron on the opposing team, you quite literally can just click Brave Bird and watch shit die. However, for those times where you do see them, you can simply U-turn out of them. From there, Manectric does a masterful job of forcing Steelix out or just flat out KOing it if it decides to stay in. While it can also push some damage onto Rhydon, I use something different on this team to combat that. Manectric generally struggles with special walls when it tries to sweep, so what better way to pressure them than to Volt Switch out of them and go straight into one of the most powerful physical attackers in the tier? The best part is that both Manectric and Braviary are just fast enough to pull off a sweep when the chance arises (Manectric especially) Uxie may look really odd on such an offensive VoltTurn core, but it's masterful at getting them started and saving them from otherwise deadly attacks. With the combination of Ywan+U-turn with decently low Speed, Uxie can very easily get Braviary and Manectric free switch-ins to start wreaking havoc. Whenever they get stopped or predicted around, Uxie is generally a good choice to go to in order to preserve the momentum. The specially defensive EV spread looks a bit odd considering Uxie's set of resistances, but it works better with the Pokemon I use to deal with Rhydon.
    ScraftyIsTheBest, Molk and alexwolf like this.
  10. Explorer

    Explorer

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    I like this core. I would propose physically defensive Tangrowth to handle the Pokemon that Manectric struggles with, like Rhydon. Tangrowth can put them to sleep or outright KO them with Giga Drain. More offensive sets can run Hidden Powers to pick off Pokemon such as Druddigon more easily. Either way, Tangrowth's physical bulk is fantastic and is worth considering, especially since the Bug types that hurt the defensive part of this team are handled by Braviary fairly well.
  11. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    hmmmm since discussion is dying down a little bit, i guess i'll start off a new topic! Not sure if this one has been posted before, but its always nice to see people's opinions on certain Pokemon/types.

    Fire-types

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Fire has been a good offensive type since pretty much RU's inception in my opinion even with things such as Slowking, Rhydon, Alomomola, Lanturn, and Qwilfish running around, and its still rather solid to the present day imo. With many of RU's Fire-types having great offensive stats and incredibly powerful STAB moves such as Flare Blitz, Flamethrower, and Fire Blast to work with. Along with other cool things such as either great coverage options (Magmortar and Emboar) a solid secondary STAB (Moltres) or powerful +2 priority moves (Entei). Overall, Fire-types are powerful. Looking at the Fire-types in the tier individually, Entei is one of the top offensive Pokemon in the tier, and because of its combination of a stupidly strong Flare Blitz and a great priority move in ExtremeSpeed, its a mainstay on many offensive teams that want a powerful attacker and a reliable revenge killer all in one. Entei can also run a Calm Mind set to decent effect, although the majority of the time Entei just wants to smash things with CB Flare Blitz. Simple, Straightforward, and effective. Emboar is quite similar to Entei, but it gives up some Speed and access to a priority move for a neutrality to Stealth Rock, some extra resistances to things such as Dark-type moves, and extra coverage options such as STAB Superpower and Wild Charge. Choice Band and Mixed Emboar are powerful, yet slow wallbreakers that can 2HKO the majority of the tier at worst, while Choice Scarf Emboar has been called one of the best glue Pokemon in the tier along with Slowking and Druddigon, as it can easily check a slew of threats such as Lilligant, Sceptile, Klinklang, Escavalier, Durant, Amoonguss, Tangrowth, Accelgor effectively all in one teamslot. Moltres is pretty much the definition of high risk, high reward. With reliable recovery, two incredibly powerful STAB moves to utilize in Fire Blast and Hurricane, and a massive Special Attack stat, Moltres is one of the most daunting Pokemon to face in the entire RU tier, and can tear entire unprepared teams apart. On the downside, a 4x weakness to Stealth Rock and low accuracy STABs hold Moltres back to an extent and make it a bit riskier to use. Still though, take that risk, and the payoff is almost always enourmous. Magmortar is similar to Moltres, and often gets overshadowed by the bird to an extent, but it has several advantages that make it worth using such as a lack of a 4x weakness to Stealth Rock, Thunderbolt, and Vital Spirit, the latter of which makes it an exceptionally good sleep absorber. Lastly, Typhlosion is a powerful Choice Specs attacker that hits a decent Speed tier, thats capable of tearing apart opponents with either a full power eruption or a Blaze range Fire Blast. Sadly, Pokemon such as Slowking and Druddigon get in the way of this early on, so it needs a bit of support to function to its full potential. So, what do you think of Fire-types in the current RU metagame? What's your favorite to use, or least favorite to play against? How do you usually deal with Fire-types when building a team or battling in practice?
  12. EonX

    EonX @TheEonX
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Contributor to Smogon Social Mediais a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    Explorer , I actually use Torterra so Aggron doesn't shit on the core if it catches Braviary locked into Brave Bird or Return.

    Anyway, on to the Fire-types point. Fire-types are really prominent in the current metagame. Most teams have to carry a combination of Pokemon to deal with all the Fire-types of RU as even Slowking, the tier's best Water-type (and arguably, the best Pokemon overall) has trouble dealing with every Fire-type in the tier (Moltres and Magmortar in particular) I love using Entei and Emboar, but my overall favorite is probably Typhlosion. Slowking is really the only thing that can get in its way. Choice Specs Eruption will put most Pokemon in KO range of a Fire Blast (or 2) on the next switch-in, so you really only need Eruption at its peak once. So, yeah, Druddigon can stop it once, but that's it. After an Eruption, it is 2HKOed by Fire Blast the next time (meaning it can't come in directly) Typhlosion is also the fastest Fire-type (without a Scarf) in the tier since Entei has to use Adamant to run Flare Blitz and ExtremeSpeed, so it can sweep quite a few teams late-game as well. Speaking of Entei, it is probably my next favorite (with Emboar close behind) Entei is a great offensive Pokemon that can wallbreak and revenge kill. These days, I actually use Flame Plate on it most of the time as I love the ability to catch typical counters such as Qwilfish and Rhydon with Will-O-Wisp (or you could run Toxic to shit on Slowking)

    As for how I combat them, I just look to counter one end of the spectrum and then have that end check the other. It's almost impossible to counter every Fire-type in the tier. Entei and Emboar are physical while Moltres, Magmortar, and Typhlosion are special. Druddigon is usually a good middle ground that can check any Fire-type you need it to at least once. Slowking fits into this category as well, but I generally just get Stealth Rock up and attempt to outlast them. Outside of Emboar, they're all suseptible to Stealth Rock (Moltres especially) while the only one with recovery is 4x weak to Stealth Rock.

    The one I really dislike facing is Emboar. Most Fire-types are one dimmensional and you'll know a safe innitial switch-in to scout the set, but you don't have that with Emboar. It could be fast (Scarf) hard-hitting, but slow (Band) or tactical (Mixed) and it's sometimes very hard to tell just on Team Preview. Special Fire-types have a hard time with Lanturn while Lum Berry variants of Kabutops and Omastar absolutely stop Entei, but there is no completely safe answer to Emboar until it uses its first move to reveal the set. Slowking is probably the closest to a safe answer, but Mixed and Band sets can predict with Wild Charge to take it out without many problems.
  13. Celever

    Celever

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    Molk that long post looks lonely so I guess I'll reply to it, heh.

    Ok so Fire-Type Pokemon in RU have been around as far as I can remember playing this tier (which is actually over a year now o.O) and they have always been a mixed bag for me. The good, such as Moltres, the decent, such as some Magmortar and some Typhlosion, the laughable, some Typhlosion and some Magmortar and the quite simply excellent Emboar and Entei, the Fire-Type Pokemon have always been a mixed bag for me. There have been some specific boons to Fire-Type Pokemon that I can remember, and the main one I can think of right now was when Durant was unbanned, although I can't quite remember what stage that was. Basically everyone's thought process was "Oh my God a new Pokemon is in the tier that has been banned before how do I counter it? Ah I know Fire-Type Pokemon!" and they slapped them on their teams. Oh, and what Pokemon outspeeds Durant and smacks it hard? Choice Scarf Typhlosion. Yeah this is where that joke came from.

    Fire-Type Pokemon also form a third of the FWG, or Fire Water Grass, cores commonly seen in RU. However, I am not a huge fan of any Fire-Type Pokemon except for Emboar in RU, so this has always posed an issue for me. I always fine problems whichever Pokemon I choose, one of the main parts being they need a spinner, of which there are 2 (possibly 3) good ones of in RU, and Cryogonal leaves you terribly weak to Rock. This means that you almost have to use Kabutops which means the only thing you can choose yourself is the Grass-Type part. However I have got over this lately, with a very odd Fire-Type all the way from NU. I'll probably get back to the RU Fire-Type Pokemon later but for now I want to introduce you to:
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    His shiny is mortherfuggin' gold Ok you've just had a heart attack that someone would seriously use this thing in RU but let me explain. Torkoal still has pretty good defense, and it has good utility in being able to spin, set up Stealth Rock and not being Sandslash or Armaldo. Or Sandshrew or Anorith. Anyway, Torkoal can use his utility options well, and he can actually kind of take out Ghost-Type Pokemon with Yawn, yeah, Yawn. If you Yawn their Ghost-Type Pokemon on the switch then it acts as a sort of semi-Foresight trying to get them to switch out. Now this isn't foolproof and you have to pick your team options kind of carefully, however I find good utility in the little guy. He is also by far the most defensive Fire-Type in RU which I guess gives him the niche there too, since honestly I'm getting tired of seeing Will-O-Wisp used on Moltres when you can actually have a better wall in Torkoal. Seriously y'all should all try it.

    Anyway, back onto the actual Fire-Types of RU:

    [​IMG]
    Entei has always been a pretty fantastic Fire-Type or just Pokemon as a whole in RU. He actually has a variety of sets including SunnyBeamer, however having to use an Adamant nature for ExtremeSpeed (maybe Flare Blitz too? Not entirely sure on this) kind of sucks, since I think Jolly would be the better option if you could. Anyway, Entei boasts 115 Attack, 100 Speed and pretty good bulk with 115 HP. This is the sort of thing you would expect to see in top-tier UU/low OU, but unfortunately he is left here with a metagame not all-too kind to him. One of the first things you realize sucks about him is no Earthquake, Earthquake would improve Entei a lot since he has to use Hidden Power Grass to get past Omastar, Kabutops and Quagsire for the moment. Furthermore he now receives a lot of competition from Emboar, they share the same rank in the viability rankings and there's a reason why. Entei is much faster than Emboar, though, so they have different niches. Looking over to Entei's analysis there is actually a Sub+CM set, but I've never used it so I won't really touch upon that.

    [​IMG]
    Brought into RU by a spammer that spammer had better realize what he just did. He unleashed the force of Emboar onto RU, and turned him into a S-Rank threat. It still sucks that Emboar doesn't have Reckless yet, however his weakness to hazards and recoil-inflicting attacks means that he will usually be able to get off a Blaze-boosted Flare Blitz before he faints. It is a common misconception that Emboar can only run Choice Scarf and be a decent revenge killer but oooh not that good ahh. Yeah people often use him wrong. Now I'm not saying that Choice Scarf isn't a fantastic set to use on Emboar but people play with him incorrectly. They assume that Choice Scarf means that he outspeeds everything so they send him in on things like Galvantula and smack he just took a lot of damage, and this leads to him being unpopular. However you need to learn that with a Choice Scarf Emboar outspeeds things like Durant and non-scarf Jynx. However Emboar also has a pretty fantastic set called Choice Band. Choice Band lets Emboar become a fantastic wall-breaker, albeit with quite a lot of switching, but being more powerful than Entei (123 Attack compared to Entei's 115) let's it hit things... well harder. Emboar has incredibly high BP attacks as well and pretty good coverage, with Wild Charge instead of Earthquake to also hit Flying-Type Pokemon harder. Emboar also has a pretty respectable base 100 Special Attack letting it go mixed for some good results, making it the most versatile and in my opinion the best Fire-Type in RU.

    (run out of time I'll edit in the other three Fire Pokemon in a while)
  14. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold PLUTO
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

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    [​IMG]

    Sceptile (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Overgrow
    EVs: 48 HP / 252 SAtk / 208 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Substitute
    - Leech Seed
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Fire] / Focus Blast

    One of my favourites Sceptile set right now, I dont like run max speed on this Sceptile set this is all that needs, solid lure for stuff like Escavalier or Druddigon, mostly slow stuff. With Leech Seed + Giga Drain to keep healthy Sceptile, Substitute is another mandatory move, last is a filler move;Hidden Power Fire for grasses like Roselia / Amoonguss / Sawsbuck Sap Sipper / Lilligant and steels like Escavalier, Focus Blast is another decent option especially against Bouffalant and Miltank, hits harder also another steel types.
    Only problem is that requires a good support, stuff to handle bulky grasses / sap sippers / clefable mostly.
  15. InsaneDragoniteHD

    InsaneDragoniteHD

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    123
    Hm, my favorite Fire type to use in RU, would probably have to be Typhlosion as well, because he's insanely fast and can run a really good choice specs set. Although,Typhlosion is stopped by Slowking,(who walls juts about everything) he does end up dishing out a lot of damage against a lot of mons in this tier, unless they are Fire type themselves,(bar the rare Flareon,which you don't see much in RU.), Typhlosion is the one mon that I've seen misused too, as a scarfer instead of a choice specs mon. Choice Scarf is okay, but you don't get that extra damage needed to take out some threats. Also, Specs allows you take full advantage of Typhlosion's speed and his sp. atk stat to destroy the tier.(minus fire types, flash fire mons,etc.)

    Also, when it comes to fire types I started to love after coming to this tier, one would have to be Emboar. Emboar is a pretty good fire type in RU, being able to deal with the likes of Slowking with Wild Charge, being able to deal a good amount of damage and then switching out to the more appropriate mon for the job. Emboar also can dish decent damage with a special set too, which often does good, but not near as good as the physical one,because you have to run Fire Blast, and compared to Flare Blitz, that is not always reliable to be running really. I ran a mixed set, and that did pretty well, being able to deal with a lot of mons in the tier. Emboar does lose to Slowking if its not locked into WIld Charge,because Slowking can take him out with Psychic/Psyshock.

    A mon I have been getting recent success with is CB Aggron. I'd like to say that he is easily the 2nd best banded mon in the tier imo, (Entei being first of course)because his head smash does heavy damage to things that resist its head smash, and it normally does 20-30% to things that do resist it. Not only that, you have other moves to rely on, like Fire Punch does a hefty amount to Tangrowth or Ferroseed, which would get destroyed by this. CB EQ destroys Steelix, as I am pretty sure you can 2HKO Steelix with a CB Earthquake. CB Aggron does have slow speed though, so you have to watch out for Fire types,Water Types, and pretty much any special mon, or anything that he is 4x weak to. WHile being very strong, even Aggron has his flaws. I've made a team around sweeping with Aggron late-game, and I'd say its been pretty successful so far. Especially when paired with something that can take hits and can dish them out a lot harder.
    (First post in RU forum, it seems okay)
  16. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent come at me winter
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    Aggron is definetly a cool mon Draggi, but unfortunately Earthquake doesn't 2HKO Steelix; what you can do however is use Low Kick, which has 120 BP vs Steelix compared to 100, and has around a 70% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock. Also remember not to Fire Punch Tangrowth, as it only has an effective 150 BP against it compared to Head Smashes 225. It is definetly useful against Ferroseed though, or against stuff like Galvantula where you can't afford to miss.

    What I wanted to ask RU's opinion on is Calm Mind Slowking. I was making a standardish team with normal defensive Slowking, with near max physical bulk (only ran enough Speed EVs to outspeed Spiritomb, and by consequence speedy Escavalier) when I decided I didn't want to run Toxic, and then looked at some other options. Dragon Tail initially struck my fancy, but then I saw Calm Mind and was hooked, especially when I saw that my defensie piot could just as easily become a nasty little sweeper, but as a primiarily defensive Pokemon Slowking also really benefits from the SDef boost from CM!

    0 SpA Lanturn Volt Switch vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Slowking: 74-90 (18.82 - 22.9%) -- possible 6HKO (obviously can't do anything at all to stop you, while you just set up on it and Scald spam

    ---

    252 SpA Life Orb Sceptile Giga Drain vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Slowking: 172-203 (43.76 - 51.65%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    +1 48 SpA Slowking Flamethrower vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Sceptile: 248-292 (87.94 - 103.54%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    (the calc against Lilligant is even better, as it has less special bulk than Sceptile)

    252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Hurricane vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Slowking: 153-181 (38.93 - 46.05%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    +1 48 SpA Slowking Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Moltres: 312-368 (97.19 - 114.64%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Here are two offensive Pokemon Slowbro normally cannot beat, but with the boosts from Calm Mind Slowbro only gets 3HKOd and OHKOs in return

    +1 48 SpA Slowking Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Escavalier: 300-356 (87.46 - 103.79%) -- 93.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    This is also a cool calc, and shows that you don't need Fire Blast and its shaky accuracy, although it is of course still a completely viable option should you not get a Calm Mind in. I've been using Flamethrower because I've been using a bulky offense team that doesn't really fear CM Sigilyph, but stallier/semi-stall teams might also really benefit from using Psyshock over a Fire-type move, as Slowking then not only becomes a cool win condition but also a counter to CM Sigilyph:

    +6 48 SpA Slowking Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Sigilyph: 217-256 (75.87 - 89.51%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    While I think that Sigilyph mostly runs Psychic, not Psyshock on its CM sets.

    I've not used it much yet, but if anyone here has I'd like some ideas on how you use CM Slowking (it's also a perfect counter to other Slowkings lacking Toxic)
  17. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas NIPPLE BLADES OF FURY
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    Hey, not to necro an almost dead forum, (jk it's totally my intention) I was wondering if anyone else had ever tried out psychic/ghost spam in RU (it was super popular in NU for a while). More specifically I am talking about using one mon to lure in counters to another mon and use destiny bond. One such core (coincidentally an NU core :o) is LO Jynx + LO Haunter as follows:

    core (open)
    Carmen (Jynx) (F) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Dry Skin
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Ice Beam
    - Lovely Kiss
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Psychic

    Born to Die (Haunter) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Shadow Ball
    - Thunderbolt
    - Destiny Bond


    This core is really cool, because besides the ability of Jynx to clean up slower teams once its check is eliminated by a Haunter DB is nice (also this core is a nice reference to Lana Del Rey). This core has issues with Durant as it can outspeed and donk both, so teammates that can eliminate durant, such as Phys. Def. Emboar and Scarf Magnet are really good choices for teammates. Hidden power fire on Jynx is for Escavalier, but focus blast could be put there or w/e your team needs. You could also make one of the two mons scarfed, but I am not a huge fan of CS D-bond.

    Also Jynx is criminally underused in RU, just sayin'.
  18. col49

    col49 what.
    is a Contributor to Smogon
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    I post in support this thread necro'ing!

    Ghost / Psychic spam is a concept I've really enjoyed in the later stages of the metagame onwards, and I personally consider it a very potent concept; many teams discount such Pokemon as threats on the basis that their Escavalier / Pursuit Dark-type is capable of dispatching them comfortably enough, or their dedicated special wall will sponge up their hits decently enough, and that kind of mindset can easily be preyed upon by a team that focuses on exploiting such Pokemon. This sort of planning comes in a few forms, the first of which is the one AL brings up; having a dedicated bait, such as Haunter, that can entice these responses to take it on and proceed to either wear down or KO these Pokemon, paving the way for your more dedicated win condition to set up and sweep comfortably. In addition to Haunter / Jynx, there are two Pokemon I have been utilizing to good effect to achieve this effect, being Kadabra and NP Misdreavus:
    Sets (open)

    [​IMG]
    Misdreavus @ Eviolite | Levitate
    Timid | 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
    Nasty Plot | Shadow Ball | Hidden Power Fighting / Thunderbolt | Will-O-Wisp / Taunt


    [​IMG]
    Kadabra @ Focus Sash | Magic Guard
    Modest / Timid | 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Encore | Psychic | Hidden Power Fire | Shadow Ball


    Being NU NFEs is just a coincidence, I swear :x Anywho, I've found that both of these Pokemon are quite effective on Psychic / Ghost spam teams, albeit for somewhat different reasons. NP Missy, despite being a little more frail than one might like, can really prey on the slower metagame we have right now, and can, depending on the utility move it exercises, apply significant pressure on common lynchpins for Ghost- and Psychic-types; Will-O-Wisp can effectively cripple Absol, Escavalier, and Spiritomb that attempt to check it, and Taunt can allow Misdreavus to restrict and thereafter wear down most conventional defensive responses to these 'mons (SpDef Normal-types, certain Steels, etc.). Kadabra sacrifices some potency against more defensive or generally bulky teams, though it accommodates with sheer utility value. The value of a support-free Focus Sash user makes it not only allows it to revenge-kill a fair sum of Pokemon comfortably, but also allows it to press damage on Pokemon more effectively, punishing recovery move users with Encore. Speaking of, Encore support is great under scenarios such as this, since the windows it can open for set-up sweepers is excellent as well. On top of that, Kadabra can carry on to bait unaware Escavalier and such, which never hurts either.

    Another route these sort of teams, or at least one I personally have enjoyed and / or found effective, can take is that of capitalizing on the fact that many balanced / offensive teams utilize Pursuit users to respond to such Pokemon. By partnering these cores alongside Pokemon that can effectively set up all a Pursuit user, the opponent is put in a difficult position wherein they have to decide whether the Psychic- or Ghost-type in questions poses enough of an immediate threat that it would be worth giving a free turn to the consequent sweeper or nuke that will inevitably follow it up. One such example would be the core of Sash NP Jynx+bulky Agility Moltres, a core I've been enjoying thoroughly for some time now (iirc I started using it in the hail metagame?); the pool of 'mons that can switch into a Jynx w/intact Sash is actually pretty limited, and naturally entices Escavalier to come in to trap, but the moment it does, Moltres gets an entirely free turn to do whatever it wishes, and usually you don't want to give that kind of liberty to a Moltres. Of course this course does necessitate some sort of response to Slowking, but as an example and core as a whole I think it reflects the concept fairly well. The role of "Pursuit abuser" can be filled by something to the effect of Durant, SS Oma, etc. depending on the necessities of the team, but it was just a concept I wanted to throw out there, perhaps get some further opinions on it '~' That said, has anybody else built around this concept, and if so, what did you use, and what were your opinions on it?
  19. InsaneDragoniteHD

    InsaneDragoniteHD

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    Now, one thing that I've been enjoying lately in RU right now, is CM Entei. CM Entei is a good, but not great alternative to the Physical variant,mainly because with CM Entei, you are walled by Slowking, which already kinda walled Entei before. Sure, ya got HP Grass, but for it to do a fair amount you have set up. 90 Base sp. A isn't too shabby, because after a boost or two, you can be doing good damage to mons that normally would do better against the physical version. HP Grass is a big help to this set, as it allows you to hit things like Kabutops, KOing them after a boost, or almost after no-boost, or I might be mistaken.

    Lava Plume, is better to run on this set imo, because I think that burn chance does help quite a bit, because you can get that lucky burn on something, like Druddigon or something. You can run other moves, but honestly, the burn is better,because burning something that wants to be burned can help a lot more than the damage output in some situations, so I always like to think that. Now honestly, when it came to this mon, I decided to run a F/W/G core, which is a basic, but fairly solid core. I hadn't used it in a team really until now, mainly because I dunno, just hadn't, but I'm definitely impressed with the effectiveness of this very basic and simple core. It focuses on the resistances of one another,making it very effective, but also very dependent at the same time.

    Also, do you think Entei should just stick to the physical set, or do you think you think people should run the special set a but more ?
  20. speed ghilliesniper

    speed ghilliesniper

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    Yay for necroing stuff, on the topic of psychic ghost cores I'v been using this one to great effect:
    [​IMG]
    Uxie @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4 SDef / 252 HP / 252 Def
    Bold Nature
    - Psychic
    - U-turn
    - Yawn
    - Stealth Rock
    [​IMG]
    Haunter @ Black Sludge
    Ability: Levitate
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Disable
    - Substitute
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power [Ground]

    So yea, basic lead Uxie lays rocks and grabs momentum with Yawn and U-Turn, if what comes in can't touch Haunter / is slower and can only hit it with 1 move it's in deep trouble thanks to the combination of sub and Disable. Sub Disable Haunter is probably my new favorite toy to play around with as it's just so effective at stopping so many dangerous threats such as CB versions of Escavalier, Aggron, and Druddigon plus being very disruptive to Regenerator cores beating Amoonguss and Alomomola easily, some variants of Slowking (neither can or should switch in on the other but S-Ball 2hko's while Scald can't ko after Haunter subs and disables it's other STAB) and most variants of Tangrowth struggle against it. This really opens up the opposing team for other sweepers to do work, while even if they retreat and gain health Uxie's rocks punish the switch in still.
  21. InsaneDragoniteHD

    InsaneDragoniteHD

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    Good core you got there ^__^ I'm not the best at naming cores and really rating them, but I'll give it a try. Having Uxie definitely defines this core, because Uxie is a pretty bulky mon, taking hits that Haunter can't really take. Sub Disable Haunter is something you definitely don't see much in RU, and it definitely works very well if used properly. Now, Haunter is really frail, unlike Uxie, meaning you kinda have to predict their switch if you are going to sub up, because most things are able to counter haunter pretty easily. Honestly,CM Spiritomb is something I see being a problem to this set(I think), because CM Spiritomb can take out both pretty reliably, but you can predict their sucker punch pretty easily, but if your opponent is smart, they'll know you'll predict that.

    Uxie is very good as a lead, because U-Turn is something many leads wish to have. In this gen, Yawn pretty much disables a mon the whole match, so getting that in there is pretty useful.

    Tried to say what I though on a core, first time xD
  22. Lost Soul

    Lost Soul

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2009
    Messages:
    244
    [​IMG]



    So how do you guys feel about the giant hovering nose of steel? He seems to have a niche as a steel trapper much like Magneton, but a lot more bulky defensively with 145 base Sp.Def and a 150 base Def, He also seems to have a respectable Sp.Att stat for something as bulky as he is with a base of 75. He also has access to Volt Switch and Stealth Rock which are two really useful moves. With magnet pull he can trap other steels such as Escavalier, Magneton, Steelix, Aggron, Kinklang, Ferroseed and Durant to name a few. The drawbacks i see with Probo is his low base hp which is a rather weak 60 and his slow base speed of 40 it has a nice typing of Steel/Rock that gives it numerous resistances but at the same time it is one of its weaknesses and it doesn't have any real form of recovery. However it seems to be a excellent support team mate because of its ability of a slow volt switch and having access to Stealth Rock and even access to Toxic. So what do you guys think? Does Probo warrant more use or do you feel it where it belongs?


    [​IMG]
    here is how i think i would set it up.

    160 HP / 252 SpA / 96 Spe , can be changed around if you want more bulk as well.
    Nature:Modest
    Item: Either Leftovers or Air Balloon, both have there advantages and disadvantages of course
    Ability:Magnet Pull
    Moves:
    -Stealth Rock/HP Fire, if i already have a SR user then i would of course go with the HP Fire
    -Power Gem/Flash Cannon
    -Earth Power
    -Volt Switch

    Any thoughts or suggestions or ideas on how you would use it?
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2014
  23. noobcubed

    noobcubed

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    Messages:
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    Why bother with Probopass when Magneton exists? There's a reason nobody has done an RU Probopass analysis and that's because it's totally outclassed by Magneton, who is faster, more powerful and more versatile (capable of running Specs, Scarf and Eviolite, depending on which Steel-types you need removed).
  24. Lost Soul

    Lost Soul

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2009
    Messages:
    244
    It is true that Magneton outclasses it both offensively and in the speed category but i still feel Probopass has potential as a support pokemon as well as having really really good defenses, I see him functioning better personally on a more defensively based team not to mention if you really wanted to he does get access to Rock Polish which i don't think I'd use myself, and he can function as a bulky toxic setter if he is needed in that role i just feel he can be a productive Pokemon for what he is. Also i realized something later after i posted this, he also has access to Earth Power which can help you against electric types like Gavantula and Lanturn just off the top of my head which i also find to be very useful.
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2014
  25. Ningildo

    Ningildo

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    759
    As a steel trapper, its completely outclassed by Magneton who hits harder, is faster and can even be more bulky if need be due eviolite. Secondly, Rock/Steel is an pretty average typing. Yes, more resistances, but now you're extremely weak against Fighting and Ground type moves. Finally, it lacks recovery and is outclassed by steelix in an defensive role who can Phaze and has Sturdy to be a one time check in a pinch to nearly everything, all while lacking massive weaknesses. It does handle mons that hit it neutrally fairly well, but it needs to be defensive to make the most out of it and then it lacks offensive presence and on top of that, every team has at least one mon with a Ground / Fighting type move so forcing it out isn't that hard. So most of the time, it will be more trouble then its worth.

    On the topic of Magneton, I prefer to use it as a bulky attacker rather then a Steel trapper. It has great resistances, which lets it check nearly every physical Water-type mon in the tier and check a few Grass-type mons as well. And, of course, it checks the omnipresent Druddigon and 2HKOs with Flash Cannon. Honestly, the amount of mons it can check and KO is pretty ridiculous. I just use 252 HP/252 Sp Atk/4 Def with Analytic and Eviolite and hits far harder then the lack of a boosting item would suggest. People should use it if they need Maggy's resistances for use as a check to things, rather then a Steel trapper.
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2014
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