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np: RU stage 16 - Ding Dong The Witch is Dead

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Molk, Apr 1, 2013.

  1. Spirit

    Spirit
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    @Hakumen just saying, you're seriously cherry picking here. If you want to say how hail or walrein is broken, be consistent with the set you list. Against physical attackers you put up max defense walrein, against special attackers you put a max special defense spread. None of those spreads are standard and one is quite frankly awful. Moreover, you mention Focus Blast sceptile against walrein, which is fairly stupid because sceptile would be using Leaf Storm instead. Volt Switch manectric is in a similar regard. You also didn't factor in SR, in which case all those threats could OHKO walrein or make it too weak to setup a sub. Your argument is reaking with bias.
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2013
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  2. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]

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    @ ice cream: I think the calcs listed are valid, because it shows that walrein can set-up a substitute on pokes such as cb entei or LO sceptile. While it can't do both at the same time ofc, the fact that either sceptile or entei actually let walrein set-up a sub depending on the set is still rlly, rlly impressive. Also considering rein only needs a double protect to get rid of all sr damage, and spinning is ridiculously easy in hail I don't think this makes too much of a difference tbh.
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  3. Explorer

    Explorer

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    First of all let me say that this is a really interesting thread and a great idea (thank you progenitor). I tend to get lots of new ideas and can share my own!

    Electrics and Bugs

    Molk and ScraftyIsTheBeast have both brought up different types of Pokemon to look at: Electric and Bug, respectively. My favorite of each type is probably the one that shares these two types: Galvantula!

    [​IMG]

    Galvantula (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Compoundeyes
    EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
    Nature: Timid
    -Thunder
    -Bug Buzz
    -Volt Switch
    -Giga Drain

    With two very powerful STABs and an ability that greatly amplifies one of them, Galvantula is not to play around with. Much of RU is hit neutrally, and Thunder's 91% accuracy and 30% paralysis rate make it quite spamm-able. Volt Switch allows Galvantula to pivot out of things such as Magmortar and Typhlosion. Lastly, Giga Drain hits Ground-types very hard, especially Rhydon. Despite having a recovery move, however, Galvantula is worn out very quickly due to its SR weakness. That's why a spinner is important. Generally, between the two spinners of RU (Armaldo and Torkoal don't count, and aren't as good either), Kabutops has much better synergy with Galvantula than Cryogonal:

    [​IMG]

    Kabutops (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly
    -Stone Edge
    -Rapid Spin
    -Waterfall
    -Aqua Jet/Swords Dance

    Despite Kabutops having to give up a key move (priority, spinning, setup, or a powerful STAB move), it functions very well, having great power after a LO boost. It is chosen over Cryogonal since Kabutops is stronger offensively, and Cryogonal and Galvantula share two weaknesses.

    Defensive synergy:

    Galvantula:
    Fire- Kabutops 4x resists
    Rock- Kabutops is neutral, but Waterfall is super-effective

    Kabutops:
    Grass- Galvantula resists
    Fighting- Galvantula resists
    Ground- Galvantula resists; both Pokemon carry a move to hit these super-effectively
    Electric- Galvantula resists; most are hit hard by STAB Bug Buzz

    This is a good offensive core in general, and under rain (provided by a good defensive Pokemon such as Uxie or some Druddigon/Hariyama variants), Kabutops becomes a ferocious sweeper with a Swift Swim boost. In these cases it is a good idea to run Swords Dance.

    New Hail Abuser

    Yes, pretty much every Ice-type gets Blizzard, but many more Pokemon do, most notably Water-types. One that is overlooked is Choice Specs Feraligatr (yes I have tested it):

    [​IMG]

    Feraligatr (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Torrent (Sheer Force when released)
    EVs: 252 HP/252 SpA/4 Spe
    Nature: Modest
    -Hydro Pump
    -Blizzard
    -Focus Blast
    -Hidden Power Fire

    Even with Feraligatr's fairly low special attack, with maximum investment and Choice Specs, it hits surprisingly hard. Hydro Pump is the preferred STAB to maximize damage output; the 120 BP is nothing to play around with. Blizzard is the secondary move, safe to spam under Hail, and hitting things such as Druddigon, Lilligant (on the switch-in), and many others, very hard. Focus Blast is really mainly for when Feraligatr has to combat Water-types and Clefable, and isn't used much otherwise due to the shaky accuracy. Finally, Hidden Power Fire was chosen to hit Ferroseed and Escavalier harder than it can with physical moves, easily outspeeding both despite almost no speed investment.

    When Sheer Force is released, it should immediately replace Torrent on this set for the 33.3% boost to Blizzard and Focus Blast, while removing side effects that occur only 10% of the time anyway.

    So do you think this is a viable Hail abuser outside of being a surprise factor, or is it just a gimmick? Is Ferliagatr best using its standard physical sets? You decide!

    Physical Cleaners

    Many great physical sweepers, specifically cleaners, have amazing offensive presence, but need a speed boost or certain checks/counters weakened or removed before starting their rampage. Some that come to mind:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Which of these (or another one you can think of) is your favorite and why? Which of these has major setbacks or the like? Which of these need more team support?

    NOTE: Torterra is only really a cleaner with Rock Polish, and Emboar only with Choice Scarf.
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  4. col49

    col49 mi amor
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    I'd like to agree that Kabutops+Galvantula is a whole lot of fun to play with, especially right now. I've been using a team centered around the offensive core of Sub Galvantula, Kabutops, and SD Gallade, and it is really effective at breaking through most traditional cores. I would also be inclined to agree with Swamp-Rocket on the matter of CS Emboar, I realize its been said before but this set tends to just get better and better as time progresses, and it really is an effectively offensive gluemon and even late-game cleaner.

    On the subject of Bug-types, I've recently been playing around a lot with SD+BP Scollipede, and its been quite impressive. Scollipede is quite fast and decently bulky, and while its Attack isn't anything amazing its high BP attacks and really nice super effective coverage does a solid job patching it up. BP, while seemingly unconventional on a more dedicated sweeper, has proven to be a really solid utility option, allowing it to scout mid-game, "dodge" Sucker Punch, and generally grant more flexibility overall. Plus the times you can maneuver an SD boost to something like scarf Medicham its just the best feeling ever. But don't take my word for it, try it out for yourself =)
    not even bad though (open)
    [​IMG]
    Scollipede @ Life Orb / Lum Berry | Swarm
    Jolly | 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Swords Dance | Megahorn | Aqua Tail | Baton Pass


    Anywho, on the matter of physical cleaners, I've always had a penchant for Klinklang, since it just so readily lends itself to balanced / spike-stacking teams, having the good natural bulk, typing, and sweeping capacities to benefit such a build (usually I run something along the lines of Klinklang / Water / Grass / SR user / Scarfer / Choice, with the last three usually utilizing a Ground-type to deter rampant Volt Switching and a Ghost-type to dissuade spinners). However, I'm inclined to say that all the Pokemon Explorer notes are very solid 'mons and I've had some degree of success with all of them (with the exception of Crawdaunt, never can get him to work for me :( ). Another 'mon I'd like to note in particular is Durant, aka bane of 80% of my teams' existences. While by no means blazingly fast, Durant's solid 109 base Speed, reasonable Defense stat bolstered by useful Steel typing, and of course its monstrous Attack stat, Durant is one of Balanced teams worst nightmares (imo). It is just fast enough to outpace most conventional non-Scarfed Pokemon in such teams, bulky enough to shrug of most priority attacks, and powerful enough to break through all but a select few Pokemon after a boost (and even then variants like Lum Berry w/Thunder Fang can take out checks like Qwilfish and Poliwrath after a little prior damage). While Durant nearly as common as it probably should be, it is a very dangerous Pokemon to play against.
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  5. EonX

    EonX One of a Kind
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    Agreeing that Durant is incredibly dangerous. It's one of the biggest reasons many balanced teams use Choice Scarf Emboar as their revenge killer since it has the bulk and typing to deal with Durant's STABs on more than one occasion throughout a match. That provides me with a great segway to the physical cleaners topic as Emboar is definitely my personal favorite of the ones listed.

    However, I would like to add Choice Scarf Braviary to the physical cleaners discussion. It plays very much like Choice Scarf Emboar, but its higher Speed means that it outspeeds pretty much every unboosted threat. It also is able to more effectively weaken its checks and counters throughout a match thanks to U-turn. However, perhaps the biggest perk Choice Scarf Braviary has over Choice Scarf Emboar is a safe STAB move in Return. All of Emboar's main moves have the drawback of recoil (Flare Blitz and Wild Charge) or stat drops (Superpower) While Braviary still has a recoil-based move (Brave Bird) and a move that causes stat drops (Superpower) it has a safe move to use in Return which also picks up STAB. This means Braviary can still clean up late-game if it has been weakened over the course of match and can play a bit more reckless throughout the match with Brave Bird since it has a safe move with no drawbacks to clean up with late.
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  6. Explorer

    Explorer

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    I am going to bring up Galvantula again because it makes for a good partner for CS Braviary. You have excellent coverage in two Pokemon and a VoltTurn core, something Emboar could not participate in.

    [​IMG]

    Galvantula (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Compoundeyes
    EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
    Nature: Timid
    -Thunder
    -Bug Buzz
    -Volt Switch
    -Giga Drain

    [​IMG]

    Braviary (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Defiant
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly
    -Return
    -Brave Bird
    -U-turn
    -Superpower

    The majority of RU is hit super-effectively, and pretty much everything else neutrally. It is easy to switch between Pokemon to target a Pokemon properly due to a very fast VoltTurn. For this core to work to its fullest potential, I'd recommend three things:
    1. A Rapid Spinner- both Pokemon are weak to SR, and Braviary has no recovery.
    2. A Rock resist- the common weakness between Braviary and Galvantula
    3. A hazards setter to get the most out of VoltTurn.

    Personally I'd suggest Steelix and Kabutops to fill these holes. Of the 4 most common spinners legal in RU (Kabutops, Cryogonal, Torkoal, Armaldo), Kabutops best fits this core synergistically and unlike the others, doesn't have a Rock weakness. Steelix 4x resists rock and can set up Stealth Rock reliably.
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  7. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    Heres a good core that i've really enjoyed using lately =)

    [​IMG]
    Druddigon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 232 HP / 252 Atk / 24 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Outrage
    - Sucker Punch / Fire Punch
    - Earthquake

    [​IMG]
    Alomomola @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Waterfall
    - Toxic


    Druddigon and Alomomola pair exceptionally well in the current metagame imo, while both Pokemon are really good on their own, they work exceptionally well together simply because of how well they cover each others flaws. For example, Alomomola struggles with Special Grass- and Electric-type Pokemon that can switch in on Alomomola because of its low offensive presence and force it out, but Druddigon beats pretty much all of these Pokemon (bar the hail exclusive Rotom-F of course) pretty handily because of its good bulk and Dragon-type, granting it a resistance to both moves. Druddigon's great base 120 Attack and amazing Dragon-type STAB help out Alomomola too, making up for her low damage output and breaking through opponents Alomomola could never hope to deal with. In return, Alomomola makes up for Druddigon's lack of recovery with her massive Wishes, healing more than 60% of Druddigon's health with just a single wishpass, and because Druddigon gets a pretty much free switch in on a lot of the things used to KO Alomomola, there are plenty of chances to get that Wishpass off. Furthermore, Alomomola resists the Ice-type moves Druddigon can't take, and can take weaker Ice-type attacks from things such as Cryogonal with ease (or if you don't mind the loss of physical bulk, Specially defensive Alomomola can actually take Ice-type moves as strong as Specs Glaceon's Blizzard o_O), and has enough physical bulk to take (non Choice Band) Outrages from opposing Druddigon as well, covering Druddigon's weaknesses pretty nicely.

    So what do you guys think of Alomomola+Druddigon? Have you ever used it? and if so, how well did it perform for you?

    Also, have you used any other similar cores that can take on most of the metagame? If so, which ones?
    Double01 likes this.
  8. Explorer

    Explorer

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    I'm seeing/using Alomamola more and more in RU; I wouldn't be surprised if it shifted out of NU (when is the next tier shift?). Pretty much every Alomamola is the set you used, Molk, except some run Scald over Waterfall (and consequently I sometimes run Knock Off over Toxic to prevent conflicting statuses). My only question is why do you run the 24 speed EVs on Druddigon?

    Recently I've been testing a new RU team with various interesting aspects. The first part is considered a continuation of the discussion of defensive cores.

    Proposed Defensive Core

    [​IMG]
    Alomamola (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD
    Nature: Bold
    IVs: 0 Atk
    -Toxic
    -Wish
    -Scald
    -Protect

    [​IMG]
    Uxie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP/128 Def/128 SpD
    Nature: Calm
    IVs: 0 Atk
    -Stealth Rock
    -Psychic
    -Heal Bell
    -Knock Off

    Coincidentally I was using Alomamola too, but with Scald over Waterfall to hopefully cripple Pokemon such as Feraligatr or Absol, who hate burns. The idea for this core came from the idea that I need a Wish passer (I'll explain why later). Otherwise this is standard Alomamola, stalling out all but the absolute strongest of the physical threats in RU (CB Druddigon, CB Escavalier, etc.). Uxie provides the team with a much-appreciated source of hazards, and serves as a cleric, since 4 out of the 6 team members hate burns (Archeops, Scolipede, Aggron, Hitmonchan, so of course). It also gets rid of the effects of Toxic that Alomamola and Uxie tend to attract. Psychic makes for a decently-powered STAB, while Knock Off removes dangerous items such as Choice Scarf and Life Orb, and it accelerates the poison timer set by Alomamola (i.e. removal of Leftovers). All in all this is a very solid core that has little trouble stalling out much of RU, and is great for stall and balanced teams alike, combining two of RU's top defensive powerhouses. I'd be happy to hear what others think of Alomamola in RU.

    The core in action:
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ru-34222923

    New Anti-Lead

    With this same team I challenged myself to design a unique anti-lead. Here is what I came up with:

    [​IMG]

    Archeops (M) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Defeatist
    EVs: 8 HP/248 Atk/252 Spe
    Nature: Naive
    -Stone Edge
    -U-turn
    -Heat Wave
    -Shadow Claw

    This Archeops is in my lead position and is designated to kill off common RU Pokemon. Stone Edge is the classic STAB with amazing power when it connects (Head Smash is counterintuitive with Defeatist). U-turn lets it easily escape the clutches of opposing leads it can't handle as well, such as Aggron and Qwilfish, before they can do any harm to it (thus speed is maximized to capitalize on that). Heat Wave has good coverage off a great but infrequently-used special attack. Here is one calc that was the selling point of this move:

    0SpAtk Expert Belt Archeops (Neutral) Heat Wave vs 252HP/8SpDef Escavalier (Neutral): 105% - 125% (364 - 432 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

    So Archeops pulls a surprise out of nowhere and easily flies through one of RU's top threats, without hazards. Lastly, Shadow Claw is for Uxie, Mesprit, Medicham, Misdreavus, and the like, and is more reliable than Stone Edge. Now, my defensive core's Wish and Heal Bell, plus a Rapid Spinner (I will probably discuss this in another post) let Archeops come back again and again to unleash more surprises at full power, with Expert Belt strengthening its attacks. I suppose Earth Power could go over Heat Wave, but the easy KO on Escavalier is too good to pass up.

    One other thing about this lead: it is not supposed to die right away like SashEndeavor Scolipede or Destiny Bond Qwilfish. Once its job is done, it should switch out, have its cuts and bruises mended by the defensive core, and come back again for more.

    Does anybody else like/dislike this Archeops set or have an anti-lead of their own to share?
  9. col49

    col49 mi amor
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    Oooh, I've been using that core myself for a while now (with the minor change of Rocky Helmet on Momo as a personal preference), and I'd have to agree it's quite good. I've tended to pair this core with CB Esca, since it helps handle defensive Grass-types, provides a sleep absorber, and gives a more well-defined check to Blizzspam, and of course appreciates the Wish support Alomomola provides. Between the two of them Alomomola's low offensive presence and general passive nature is largely mitigated, and amongst them they cover a large array of common Pokemon. Select specially-based Pokemon, notably Moltres, Rotom-F, and Galvantula, give this core trouble. Fortunately their SR weakness limits their ability to break through this core, and with the possible exception of Rotom-F these Pokemon have to rely on either timely predictions (Galvantula) or inaccurate moves (Moltres) to effectively play around them. Support Rotom-C is also a bit of an issue, since it can easily force out Alomomola with the prospect of either STAB move, and neither Druddigon nor Esca enjoys a Will-o-Wisp burn. Nonetheless, quite the effective little core, and with proper support it can ward off a ton of threats.

    edit: this is in response to Molk's core, ninja's :x
    Double01 likes this.
  10. EonX

    EonX One of a Kind
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    I haven't been focusing on defensive cores too much as of late although I'll agree that Druddigon+Alomomola is a solid core with Druddigon possessing the offensive presence that makes it difficult to break. That said, I would like to bring up another topic that relates to how the metagame seems to be shifting to Bulky Offense:

    Wallbreaking Cores:

    While not previously as common in RU, the shift of the metagame to Bulky Offense since Queen left has made many Wallbreakers more relevant and better choices for teams. Common ones are Druddigon and Specs Slowking, but I would like to bring up one I've been using as of late:

    [​IMG]
    Emboar (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 232 HP / 252 Atk / 24 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Flare Blitz
    - Superpower
    - Wild Charge
    - Sleep Talk

    [​IMG]
    Mesprit @ Expert Belt / Choice Specs
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 88 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 164 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Psyshock
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt
    - U-turn

    This core embodies the whole Bulky Offense trend of the metagame recently. Emboar and Mesprit have really good synergy together as both can handle many checks to the other. Choice Band Emboar is pretty underrated with its Choice Scarf set being the beast that it is, but Band Emboar quite simply tears apart bulkier teams. It still has the Speed to outspeed minimum Speed Lanturn and has the added bulk to better handle the likes of Escavalier and Defensive Slowking.

    Speaking of Slowking, this is what makes Mesprit so good. Since bulky Water-types are about the only things that can handle CB Emboar's onslaught, what better way to handle them than with Mesprit? Currently, I've been using Expert Belt since Mesprit has such great coverage on many of the top threats in RU (Slowking, Druddigon, and Sceptile just to name a few) The pixie is a fantastic check to Gallade, Slowking, and any Sceptile lacking Leaf Storm (which is most) Once one of Ice Beam or Thunderbolt gets revealed, the opponent will feel safe bringing in something that resists the coverage move used, only to have Mesprit hit home with a key super effective move. U-turn allows Mesprit to be something of an anti-lead for the team since it has great coverage on most conventional leads and can simply U-turn out of a bad matchup (such as against Crustle) Mesprit's bulk and Levitate ability really help it with taking on Emboar's checks while the extra HP EVs on Emboar commonly come as a shock to the opponent. Between U-turn and Sleep Talk, this core also brings a lot of utility qualities to a team, thus allowing the other to pull its weight if one finds it easy to wallbreak an opposing team.

    So, what (if any) wallbreaking cores do you find yourself using and do you think that wallbreaking has become more of a necessity since Nidoqueen left the meta?
    Double01 likes this.
  11. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    This is pretty off-topic but I wanted to share this to see what you guys think. I've played a few matches with these mons but haven't gotten to test them a lot. However, in those matches they performed very well so I think they have potential.

    [​IMG]
    Druddigon (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Dragon Claw
    - Hone Claws
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    I used this together with Alomomola because I wanted something that could switch into the Grass-types that set up on Alomomola or use sleep moves. Druddigon was also good with Alomomola because the two check every common Fire-type in the tier (which is why I chose a specially defensive EV spread). Anyways, I used Hone Claws because I wanted some power, and Druddigon was actually able to straight up 6-0 a few defensive teams with this strategy. With a few Hone Claws boosts, it can get past things like Clefable and Alomomola while they can't touch Druddigon. I hope some more people test this out because it's been really effective from my experiences.

    [​IMG]
    Exeggutor (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Sleep Powder
    - Leaf Storm
    - Psychic
    - Synthesis

    Exeggutor was something that I was just playing around with but it's also effective from my experience. For one, it has the strongest Leaf Storm in the tier, and the ability to put something to sleep with Sleep Powder is also quite threatening. It's decently bulky and resists Fighting which is always nice, and it does have the ability to heal through Synthesis. Exeggutor is just another thing that I recommend you try out!
    Double01 likes this.
  12. SilentVerse

    SilentVerse Into the New World
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    Rather than Leftovers + Synthesis, I feel that Rest + Lum Berry and Harvest would be the much better option for recovery, since Rest + Lum Berry fully restores Exeggutor whenever you use it, though I guess Leftovers does make Exeggutor a little harder to wear down. However, having used that sort of Exeggutor a lot before, I can definitely attest to how good it is. Exeggutor's ridculously powerful Leaf Storms just break through so many things, and Psychic hits SO many of the things that resist it, like Amoonguss, Roselia, etc. The fact that Exeggutor also has Sleep Powder further adds to the danger level; common sleep absorbers like Druddigon, Entei, and Emboar won't like taking Exeggutor's powerful Psychics at all, which can make the prospect of switching into Exeggutor seem fairly difficult. It's definitely a Pokemon that has been overlooked in the current metagame, and has the potential to be a huge threat in my opinion.
    Double01 likes this.
  13. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest I Love Goomy
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    Those cores all look pretty solid. Drudd+Mola looks pretty legit, I've used it a bit myself and it wrecks. That said, here's a core of my own:

    [​IMG]

    Mesprit @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Substitute
    - Calm Mind
    - Psyshock
    - Thunderbolt / Ice Beam

    [​IMG]

    Klinklang @ Leftovers
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 100 HP / 252 Atk / 156 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Substitute
    - Shift Gear
    - Gear Grind
    - Return / Wild Charge

    These two make a fantastic offensive core on offensive teams, sweeping like a boss and especially on Spike-stacking teams, and Sub+Setup can be lethal. Mesprit and Klinklang have excellent defensive synergy, allowing them to come in on something the other dislikes, and set up for free to destroy. Mesprit resists the Fighting and Ground moves Klinklang is weak to, while Klinklang returns the favor by resisting Bug, Ghost, and Dark. Klinklang also is a physical attacker while Mesprit is a special, which is a definite plus to this core. Thanks to Substitute, these two can break through stall, and the coverage is nice. You might want to watch out for Steelix though; so bring something like Golurk or Samurott to handle it! Overall I really like this core, and it has given me a pretty solid winning streak on the ladder now, give it a try!
    Double01 likes this.
  14. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    I really dig that Hone Claws set, Dittocrow! Why haven't I thought of it, lol! Outrage seems like a viable option here, too, since you're not locked into it when Sleep Talk selects it. I got to give this set a try later ;d

    I don't dig Exeggutor too much, though. Too many exploitable weakness in the game. All Electric-types barring Rotom-C have coverage moves to lay low Eggy, not to mention all the dangerous Bug, Fire, Ice, and Dark-types that can ruin its faces. It's really good at setting up Trick Room or sweeping in Sun, but I personally would not use it as my conventional nuke mon.

    If I were to use Exeggutor outside of TR or Sun, I'd focus more on its bulk, and go with Harvest + Sitrus Berry, so it does not need to spend a turn using Synthesis / Rest to gain health. The fourth moveslot can then be used for HP Fire, Stun Spore, or even Psych Up to reset special drop from Leaf Storm. Exeggutor would need to be paired with a solid Special sponge and a Fire sponge (Clefable + Slowking / Druddigon?) to not be screwed by this meta.
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  15. EonX

    EonX One of a Kind
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    HC Drudd + (Tank? Not sure what to call it) Eggy: These seem pretty neat. Exeggutor in particular peaks my interest since it can actually threaten most Fire-types that are typically used as Sleep Absorbers with its secondary Psychic STAB (Escavalier still shits on it, but it handles most sleep inducers nicely anyway) The Druddigon set looks a bit like CroCune and CroTomb with the RestTalk + boosting move thing going, though I can see how the lack of defensive boosts to the uninvested defensive stat would hurt in certain scenarios.

    Mesprit + Klinklang: The only worry I would have with this core is that Steelix absolutely shits on this core unless Mesprit runs Ice Beam, in which case, Escavalier now shits on it. Of course, you've already mentioned of how well this core works on Spike-stacking teams and the defensive synergy the two share. That said, I can see Golurk working really well with this core as it beats Steelix fairly easily, can setup SR, has a Bug resistance to ease pressure on Klinklang to cover Mesprit, and is immune to Fighting to ease pressure on Mesprit to cover Klinklang. Oh, and it can spinblock (sort of since Tops and Cryo can beat it rather easily) those Spikes that should be accompanying this core. On the subject of Golurk, this brings me to another topic.

    Hidden Gems:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Ever since RU has come into existence, there have always been Pokemon from NU just waiting to be discovered and burst onto the scene. In fact, some of RU's best Pokemon were once NU. Emboar and Absol are great examples of this as both seemed to rise at around the same time and they're now 2 of the best offensive Pokemon RU has. Amoonguss is another as it ran up the usage charts not all that long ago to show us how good of a defensive Pokemon it can be. This tier shift seems to be the time for Golurk and Alomomola to challenge RU as they attempt to rise up from NU and make themselves known. That said, there are still plenty of solid threats in RU that still reside in NU. 2 easy examples would be Tauros and Braviary. Both are widely considered to be 2 of the hardest Pokemon to actually deal with due to their coverage and power, but they still reside in NU and many believe that they don't receive the usage they deserve. But it's not just NU. There are many RU Pokemon that are down quite a bit in usage that just seem to be waiting for someone to utilize them and make them known to the rest of the RU players. So which hidden gems do you find yourself having success with and which Pokemon do you think may rise from NU before 5th Gen ends? (NOTE: they don't need to be one of the six pictured above.)

    Personally, I've been having a lot of fun using Mesprit, Golurk, and Braviary recently. CS Braviary is one of the most underrated revenge killers while Mesprit is pretty good offensively. Psychic + BoltBeam coverage is amazing in RU right now and it has amazing utility moves in Healing Wish, U-turn, Trick Room, SR, Rain Dance, and Sunny Day. Golurk is no secret anymore as it's one of the best offensive SR users in the tier currently as it has the bulk to take a few hits and the offensive presence (and coverage!) to keep most opponents from trying to setup on it. Samurott is another that I've used to a decent extent lately, but not as much as I've used the other 3. It's coverage is really good right now, crushing most common defensive cores with its Mixed Attacker set and it actually works very well with Amoonguss who can shore up Samurott's Speed issues with paralysis support and it checks most Grass- and Electric-types for the otter.
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  16. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    [​IMG]
    One of my favorite hidden gems at the moment is probably Swellow, Swellow's been an old favorite of mine since RU's inception, and some of my best teams are actually built around getting a late game swellow sweep (in fact, i made a post on the first page of this same np thread regarding how good the combination of Swellow+Drifblim was, so check that out if you want). Although Swellow doesn't really look like much at first because of its fraility and mediocre initial Attack stat, it can actually be quite the monster given the chance, with Guts boosting its 269 Attack up to a great 403 while also giving it a great STAB move to utilize in Facade. Swellow's speed is also a very important factor in why its so good: it outpaces pretty much the entire unboosted tier bar Aerodactyl and Accelgor pretty comfortably, and can even outrun some boosted/scarf threats such as +1 Crawdaunt and Choice Scarf Emboar without a problem, swiftly OHKOing them, this makes Swellow that much harder to stop once it gets going, and also means it can play a revenge killing role if needed. U-turn's great as well, letting Swellow escape its checks and counters while also doing a decent amount of chip damage in the process. Now of course Swellow isn't perfect in the slightest, it needs support just like any other Pokemon, it has a lot of trouble with bulky Steel- and Rock-types, and Stealth Rock weakness and overall fraility don't help out either. Thankfully, these flaws are easy to cover with proper team support: pairing Swellow with another bird, Magneton something like Gallade, or even the dedicated bird Support Drifblim helps Swellow break through its checks immensely, wearing them down over the match until they're in Facade's KO range. Spikes work great with Swellow too, as almost all of its checks are grounded and lack forms of recovery. Swellow's Stealth Rock weakness can be covered by running a Rapid Spinner such as Kabutops or hell even Sandslash if you absolutely need the bulk and Electric and Rocks resistances (they both help break Swellow's checks to boot!) Lastly, a good defensive backbone to fall back on helps Swellow with its fraility, and because most of the Pokemon that can set up the entry hazards Swellow loves so much are quite bulky (and even resist Swellow's weaknesses), its not too hard to find a solid core that can take hits for the bird if need be.
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  17. Explorer

    Explorer

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    The amazing coverage in this core makes me think it would be very potent in today's RU, but I strongly recommend paralysis support for this core. Druddigon comes to mind with its standard lead set because it is an excellent tank and it also provides Stealth Rocks. Ferroseed has good defensive synergy with Emboar and Mesprit, and it gets Stealth Rock, Spikes, AND Thunder Wave to let it be most effective to such a wallbreaker core. Which one you use is up to you (you could even do the support Ferroseed and CB Druddigon for another wallbreaker if you really want one).
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  18. col49

    col49 mi amor
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    I could probably go on forever about hidden gems, they're basically my favorite "build-arounds" to work with. For instance, Kangaskan, Emboar, Absol, Alomomola, Druddigon and Amoonguss are just a couple Pokemon that I was positively enamored with even before they rose in popularity, and to this day they continue to be good (Kanga's still pretty obscure to the common ladderer, but meh :/ ). Not trying to say I'm in any way responsible for these Pokemon's rise in popularity (I repped them all a bit, and I revamped all but Absol, though that's about it), though it just goes to show how many 'mons that were previously low-name can become significant in the metagame with a little acknowledgement.

    In terms of lesser known NU 'mons (not including Kanga, I mention it too much as is '~'), I have been running Samurott, Fraxure, Golurk, and Scolipede quite a lot (not in the same team, of course, though it might work :P ), and they all are quite capable and neat 'mons. I've already given mention to Scoli recently, so I'll just refer those curious to this post for some of my thoughts on that. 'Rott has that nice "uncounterable" aspect to him, as his checks and counters are entirely based on the set he's running, meaning that it's always a good time sneaking it in and having the opponent struggle to pick a good initial switch-in. Admittedly the mixed set is a bit better in the current metagame, but that does in itself give some more leeway to the SD set to find free turns against specially bulky Normal-types and other such 'mons that attempt to dance around it. Speaking of dancing (A+ segway), Fraxure has been really good to me as of late, a bulkier SubDD set really puts some common defensive cores on ice since most checks to it rely on their ability to whittle it down with Scald burns, Leech Seed damage, etc. Golurk has been a 'mon that's been pretty solid since BW2 (Stealth Rock and elemental punches really sealed the deal for him) and is only beginning to get more widely recognized now. His unique typing is a huge draw, both allowing him two solid STAB options and a bunch of nice resistances and immunities to work with. While he can't spin-block very efficiently, his ability to at least force 'Tops or Cryo to attack it rather than spin is a nice boon.

    I also already mentioned my thoughts on Swellow+Drifblim+Spikes earlier, so I guess if you want there are my thoughts on that. Mono-Attacking Drudd looks obnoxious as all get out, I'll definitely have to try that sometime lol. As for Eggy, I'd have to agree with SV that I'd personally prefer the utility of LumRest, the added ability to switch into status inducers+the more extensive recovery is much appreciated. While I realize that Druddigon can answer these moderately well thanks to RestTalk, I'd rather Eggy be taking status than being forced into RestTalk cycles earlier on tbh, but perhaps that's just me haha. I do actually mention the merits of LumRest Eggy to an extent in the playstyle classification thread, though honestly I feel I've been tossing around too many links in this post tbh x_x

    Anywho, and I know this post has been kinda on the longer end for me (I promise it'll be over soon), I'd like to bring up a wall-breaker I've found to be quite potent in response to EonX-'s point.

    [​IMG]
    Gallade @ Lum Berry | Justified
    Adamant / Jolly | 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Swords Dance | Close Combat | Psycho Cut | Shadow Sneak

    I've always considered SD Lum Gallade to be one of the most dangerous Pokemon for stall or otherwise defensively inclined teams to face, and the influx of Spiritomb on such teams is proof of that. It's impressive Attack stat and unique STAB combination make it a pain for conventional defensive Pokemon to wall, as even standard defensive Slowking is 2HKOed by a +2 Adamant CC (+2 252+ Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 144 Def Slowking: 212-250 (53.94 - 63.61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO), and its natural special bulk and single-use status avoidance allows it many an opportunity to set up. While this is of course "vacuum logic" and such a scenario is not laid out readily for Gallade, especially when a good player is capable of recognizing it as a threat and accordingly limiting its free turns, the fact that its presence alone results in uncomfortable play on the opponent's part and / or the use of Pokemon such as Spiritomb to handle it (disclaimer: I'm not saying 'Tomb is only used in stall to handle Gallade, it is a nice asset on such teams for other reasons as well, but it is a big reason) is a pretty solid sign that Gallade is a real challenge to handle from a defensive outlook.

    edit: nvm on the comment on birds+spikes, can't seem to find the post '-'
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  19. EonX

    EonX One of a Kind
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    @Explorer: funny you should mention Support Ferroseed since I actually do use it to supply Spikes, T-Wave, and Leech Seed recovery. (I have a different SR user on the team I use Mesprit + Emboar on) Always nice when Mesprit or Emboar can get some free healing from Leech Seed as it can often times provide them with that 1 extra turn they need to seal the deal. The fact that Emboar and Mesprit cover Ferroseed's 2 weaknesses just makes it all the better.

    @col49: Well, this will take a minute to cover everything, but (cracks fingers) here goes.
    Samurott is one of my favorites from NU. Its mixed attacking set is about the hardest thing for any defensive team to switch in on. That decent 95 / 80 physical bulk means priority alone will rarely be enough to take it down. Its SD set is cool too since Megahorn allows it to make Tangrowth cry while Alomomola can't really do much to it directly either. However, there is one thing that I don't think a lot of people realize; the fact it has Blizzard up its sleeve. Sure, it may not be your conventional Hail Pokemon, but the fact that its Mixed Attacker set deals with so many things that give Hail teams issues allows it to perform fairly well. It can run Blizzard over Ice Beam in Hail as well, making that much harder to switch into.
    Golurk is a cool Pokemon for sure. After Nidoqueen left for UU, I feel this thing does a lot of what Nidoqueen did on the defensive end. It can provide SR, an answer to the many Electric-, Bug-, and Rock-type Pokemon in the tier, and it still gives good offensive presence. While it may not have as good of a defensive typing as Nidoqueen does, it can still do a fairly large amount of defensive things Nidoqueen did while it was in RU.
    Also, agreeing that Gallade is a fantastic wallbreaker. That SD set is really a pain to deal with since it has the firepower to just attack right off the bat to try and weaken the opponent's main response for later in the match. Give it Spikes and Paralysis support, and Gallade just wrecks shit. Personally, I prefer the Bulky SD set due to its more flexible play, but I certainly wouldn't want to stare down Offensive SD Gallade in a dark alley...
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  20. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    "Hidden Gem":

    [​IMG]
    Torterra (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Overgrow
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Wood Hammer
    - Earthquake
    - Synthesis

    Specially defensive Torterra is a great Pokemon that I've been using lately. It's main niche is that it can absorb Volt Switches, especially from Rotom-C. It has reliable recovery in Synthesis and supports the team with Stealth Rock. Aside from a great Electric resistance, it also resists Rock, making it a solid Kabutops and Aggron check. In general, Torterra is just a great check to a ton of Pokemon in RU, and is a great team supporter with good survivability. It's also seems like a pretty versatile mon, but this is the only set I've used a lot so far. Discuss Torterra I guess~
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  21. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    [​IMG]
    Camerupt (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Solid Rock
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Lava Plume
    - Earth Power
    - Roar / Toxic

    Another gem I've found is Camerupt. While it does not have reliable recovery, it boasts the ability to not only manhandle almost every specially offensive Fire and Electric in the tier, it can also hold its own against a variety of walls, such as Tangrowth, Steelix and even Uxie. It is a full stop against Magmortar, Galvantula, and Manectric, and also stops Escavalier and Durant to an extent. While it is forced out by virtually every Water-type in the tier, it's not giving most of them a free-switch, with STAB Earth Power keeping Kabutops, Lanturn and Qwilfish from strolling right in, and even Poliwrath doesn't particularly appreciate being forced to Rest early if it gets burned by Lava Plume on the switch. Slowking doesn't like Toxic either. I've found Roar to go in tandem with the Stealth Rock it sets down to fantastically check SubRoost Moltres which it otherwise cannot do anything about, or phazing out threats such as Calm Mind Sigilyph / Uxie / Clefable.
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  22. EonX

    EonX One of a Kind
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    Torterra: Torterra is a pretty cool Pokemon. I've never used it in RU myself, but I can see the potential in it for sure. It's really the only Grass-type in RU that Fire-types really don't like switching in on due to STAB EQ (or Stone Edge) Imo, its biggest quirk is that it's the only Pokemon in RU (to my knowledge at least) to resist QuakeEdge. Its stat spread is pretty decent as it has solid physical bulk even without investment. Terra's low Speed kinda hurts, but it even has Rock Polish to fix that to a certain extent. Cool Pokemon for sure. Really need to try it out soon.
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  23. SilentVerse

    SilentVerse Into the New World
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    Torterra is a Pokemon that I've used quite a bit in this metagame, and I'm actually going to say that imo, it's almost a Pokemon that's so good it should be RU. It just has so much utility thanks to its great offensive and defensive stats that it can actually fit really nicely onto a lot of teams. Rock Polish is incredibly lethal once bulky Grass-types and levitators are removed since Grass and Ground STAB is just so absurdly strong, and access to Synthesis gives more defensive sets the ability to stick around and continue to check big threats like Aggron or Rotom-C depending on whether you go physically or specially defensive. Definitely a very solid Pokemon in this metagame that people should be using more.

    Camerupt also seems like it could be cool again given the resurgence of Choiced Electric-type Pokemon, as it handles pretty much all them extremely well, bar Hidden Power Water Galvantula or something. I can definitely see it being used again to support the Tangrowth + Slowking core like it was used a year ago, though the emergence of incredibly powerful physical Bug-types like Escavalier and Durant, as well as Hurricane Moltres, might mean that it doesn't pair quite as well with that core as it used to. Its a cool Pokemon that I could see myself using however.
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  24. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    Wow, SV's suggested changes to Exeggutor made such a HUGE difference. Here is the revised set for reference:

    [​IMG]
    Exeggutor (M) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Harvest
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Sleep Powder
    - Leaf Storm
    - Psychic
    - Rest

    Now with Lum Berry and Harvest, Exeggutor can absorb status and cure it's own status conditions with Rest, which is instantly cured by the Lum Berry. Exeggutor can also deal with sleep users, especially Smeargle and Amoonguss, and regain its Lum Berry with Harvest. For example:

    Anyways, Exeggutor is actually quite bulky, and it can take on threats such as Gallade and Lilligant. However, for this set, I believe that there's a better EV spread for it. Since I suck with EVs, I just maxed out SpA and Speed lol.
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  25. col49

    col49 mi amor
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    Cool, rep for Eggy, never a bad thing :] I would seriously encourage anybody to run the set that DC posted (possible exceptions of Giga Drain > Leaf Storm for staying power and Psyschock > Psychic depending on personal necessity), its honestly a really solid utility 'mon, especially since its effectively "immune" to status. Having secondary Psychic STAB is great for it, since it deters common Sleep Talk users like Emboar and Entei (latter takes 55-65% on average from Psychic, obviously the former is OHKOed) from switching in to it, making it a really nice Sleep inducer in comparison to some of the other users of such moves. Personally I run enough Speed to outpace Lanturn (being 100 EVs), since its bulk is a serious boon to it and I'd rather that be preserved. As for Tortellini, whatever man, I was using that months before anybody else, goml :< it really is a solid and pleasantly versatile 'mon, sporting some nice STAB moves, a nice set of resistances, and pretty usable stats across the board. Personally I'm more of a fan of its boosting sets myself, since RP is a really solid late-game cleaner as SV entails, and if you haven't run SD Turtle against Stall then I'll tell you right now its a lot of fun (hint: Synthesis >>> Rock move on SD, it does nothing unless you're hitting the 'mon on the switch, and lack of recovery makes it so much worse against slower teams).
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