np: RU stage 16 - Ding Dong The Witch is Dead

[-Sparkbeat-]

Crustle Shell Smash Lead Set and Hazard Lead Set

At the moment, I feel this guy is the definition of anti-meta. The hazard lead can cause offensive pressure to other common lead such as Accelgor and Aerodactyl should they choose to taunt, by KO'ing them if Rock Blast hits 3 times. It also gets up Rocks and 1 layer of Spikes easier, and Spiritomb just spin blocks so well atm. Now, something I've found could be very good at the moment, is leading with a Shell Smash Crustle with a White Herb, much like lead Shell Smash Dwebble in LC. The main attraction of this lead Crustle is its ability to decimate Hail from turn 1. You set up a SS as Snover Blizzards, which gets you to the high 30% iirc. You then live the Ice Shard and smash him with Rock Blast. You can now spam Rock Blast, Earthquake, and X-Scissor until hail or priority finishes you off. Luckily, most hail teams lack priority, so you can usually KO 2-3 Pokemon with him. He can also apply immediate pressure against offense and stall teams, and put your opponent in a tough spot from turn one. Here's a replay of a battle against a hail team that topped the ladder using a Custap Hazard lead Crustle, since this is the battle that made me think of the SS lead. http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ru-36017757

 

[col49]

So is it cool if I post here? Alrighty, cool.

While I wouldn't go so far as to call Crustle "anti-meta", especially for the reasons offered (for instance, the claim it handles lead Aerodactyl kind of loses it's steam when you note that this set generally rather poor now more than ever, and early-game hazards should be no big shakes tbh, a bunch of 'mons do this and have been doing this just as effectively as it for a while now), it definitely is a pretty solid Pokemon, if only as a "lead". The Custap set is arguably more efficient than Smeargle in the task of setting up early-game SR+Spikes nowadays, as every good team has a clear-cut answer to Smeargle barring odd deviations (I myself have began dropping SR for another utility move such as Thunder Wave or Mirror Coat on my Smeargle and simply passing the responsibility of SR to something like Golurk or Mesprit / Uxie in order to get anything done with it), and the noticeable lack of "standard procedures" for Custap Crustle allows it to more effectively lay down hazards. In a similar vein, the good old-fashioned SS+Hazards Crustle of theorymons past (or whatever, idk) is another really cool set I've been enjoying; not only is it capable of handling most lead match-ups reasonably well while still allowing to to get up it's hazard of choice on a pretty regular basis, but its ability to apply added offensive pressure on the opponent and wear down physical walls on it's own in such early stages of the game can really help something like Swellow or Durant get an easier sweep in late-game. For those of you who are curious, this is the set I'm referring to:

Crustle @ Lum Berry | Sturdy
Adamant | 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Shell Smash | Rock Blast | X-Scissor / Earthquake | Spikes / Stealth Rock


Anywho, on the subject of revenge killers (it's a dated subject, but every subject here is '-' ), I kinda feel obligated to give a quick nod to Kangaskan; Fake Out+Sucker Punch gives Kanga the ability to not only check a nice handful of frailer, non Rock- or Steel-type sweepers pretty handily, but also allows it to burn turns of Trick Room, Rain Dance, or Sunny Day (although all are fairly uncommon, especially as a dedicated playstyle as opposing to a quick splash like OTR 'King or something). Speaking of Normal-type revenge-killers, I've actually been really enjoying Choice Scarf Tauros as a revenge-killer and late-game cleaner. Though not utilizing the LO Sheer Force set seems a waste for such a potent Pokemon, Tauros' blazing Speed, strong Normal STAB, and the added buffer of Intimidate (which is rather pertinent considering the abundance of priority in RU) allow Tauros to handle a ton of Pokemon. It even outpaces most pertinent Pokemon with an Adamant nature (stupid sets like Scarf Galvantula outpace with a + Speed nature of their own, but I just imagine the people running them follow the Magmortar rule and run 252 HP / 252 SpA spreads anyway), which is a nice bonus considering 299 Atk just doesn't cut it a lot of the time.

 

[EonX]

On the subject of Crustle, I do feel that it is very efficient at setting up hazards with its Custap set. It has the offensive presence that Smeargle doesn't and the Custap Berry along with Sturdy make up for the Speed issue. The SS+Hazards set is pretty cool. I've faced it a few times and it has caught me off-guard thanks to its versatile play. It can be more defensive and simply get up its hazard of choice, or it can choose to go straight for SS and weaken down the opposing defensive core for another sweeper to take advantage of. Since most subjects (bar the Crustle one to an extent) are outdated, let's plug in a new one!

Grass-types!:

RU has never really had a shortage on Grass-types. Seemingly, ever since the creation of RU, there have been plenty of Grass-types that players have had to deal with. They are some of the most versatile threats in the current metagame as many are capable of going on the offensive, or playing more defensively. Such examples would be Tangrowth, Torterra, and Amoonguss. Two of the best Spikers in the tier also happen to be Grass-types while Torterra is one of the more underrated SR users (and Pokemon in general tbh) While the introduction of Hail to RU has certainly been a blow, most Grass-types are able to find a way around it one way or another and still be able to provide ample support and/or offensive presence. So what roles do you typically use Grass-types for? What is your favorite Grass-type? Which Grass-type gives you the most trouble when having to face it in battle?

These days, I generally use my Grass-type in a more supportive role. So, naturally, I tend to use Ferroseed, Torterra, and Roselia more than the others. Of the 3, I like Ferroseed the most (though I really have taken a shine to Torterra as of late) thanks to that amazing Grass/Steel typing. Ferroseed is a great team supporter with Spikes and Thunder Wave almost always being on its moveset. You can even use its bad qualities to your advantage. Its 4x Fire weakness can turn into your gain as Ferroseed can attract Fire-types like a magnet and proceed to predict their switch-in with a well-timed Thunder Wave to cripple them for the rest of the match.

As for the one I have the most trouble with, it would have to be Rotom-C. The constant threat of Volt Switch really makes Rotom-C annoying for me to face. This is a big reason as to why I've taken a shine to Torterra lately since it can handle Rotom-C much better than most on average with investment in HP and Special Defense. That immunity to Volt Switch is wonderful and Terra can handle Leaf Storm and HP Fire well enough as well, meaning that a misprediction doesn't spell the end.

 

[ss234]

The ru grass types are rlly, rlly good. Lilligant is one of the most threatening sweepers in the tier, and HP fire lilli is easily one of the best stall killers in the metagame. Rotom-c is my favourite grass type-it is bulky, immune to ground, resists water / electric / grass and has volt switch and a very powerful STAB in the form of leaf storm.

Ik it has been talked about quite a lot in the hidden gems section, but torterra is also very good right now. Ground / grass and that solid defence and HP means it can beat a wide variety of pokemon, including aggron and kabutops. My favourite set right now is rock polish. It is a great cleaner thanks to solid coverage, two strong STAB's and the bulk to tank priority.

Roselia is also rlly, rlly good. Dual spikes rose is amazing in the current metagame, especially when paired with alomomola. It counters loads of special attackers, and once a layer of tspikes are up it becomes so much easier to deal with mons like walrein, spiritomb and many others.

 

[Molk]

Yeah Grass-types have been pretty powerful in RU for a while, there are certainly a multitude of Grass-types available for use in the tier that each play different roles, from defensive Spikers Ferroseed and Roselia to Quiver Dance sweeper Lilligant. Another cool thing about Grass-types is that they help form the FWG core, which is both common and effective in RU given how many good options either fit on or support a FWG core, anyways, on to the grass-types themselves.

Rotom-C is by far my favorite Grass-type in RU at the moment, and the vast majority of my offensive/bulky offense/balanced teams have a Rotom-C varient on them. Rotom-C's nice bulk along with its resistances to common types such as Water and Electric and access to Volt Switch make Rotom-C one of the best offensive pivots in the tier imo, coming in on various threats such as Kabutops and other Rotom-C, forcing them out, and using Volt Switch to grab momentum while doing some chip damage in the process. Of course Rotom-C doesn't always have the opportunity to safely Volt Switch: there are various Ground-type Pokemon in RU that can completely block Rotom-C's Volt Switch: this is where Leaf Storm comes in! a STAB base 140 BP Grass-type move is usually more than enough to take a Volt Switch immunity, leaving Rotom-C free to use its Electric STAB later on in the match.

The two Grass-types i probably have the most trouble with overall are (once again) Rotom-C and Lilligant. While Rotom-C's Volt Switch shnenanigans are a great asset for any team to have, they're also some of the most infuritating to play against. Rotom-C's typing and ability to force switches and threaten common Pokemon make it an excellent scout, and theres always that inherent risk to switching in a good Electric immune Pokemon because of that STAB Leaf Storm. Lilligant is always a pain to handle given she has one of the scariest boosting moves in the game in Quiver Dance and a why to put her checks and counters out of comission in the form of Sleep Powder (although some people run Sleep Talk specifically for this now). Of course Lilligant does have quite a few common pokemon standing in the way of a swee such as Druddigon, Entei, Emboar, Escavalier, and Bouffalant, but most of them are vulnerable to Sleep Powder, and some of them are specific to the Hidden Power Lilligant has decided to run. I've often made teams where i have no trouble with one varient with Lilligant, but the other Lilligant varient can mean game over unless i play especially carefully. I also find that Hidden Power Fire Lilligant is pretty threatening towards certain stall teams due to her ability to take out checks and counters with Sleep Powder and the reliance on Roselia and Amoonguss many Stall teams have to beat Grass-types, both of which really hate Hidden Power Fire.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Yeah Grass-types are excellent in this metagame, and are a staple on many of my teams. Rotom-C is easily an important member of numerous teams thanks to his utility, and he is amazing thanks to his access to Volt Switch, nice stats, and exceptional(ly annoying) typing. He has access to Volt Switch and Leaf Storm to easily be one of the best revenge killers in RU, as he has good Speed to revenge kill and can scout the team effectively with Volt Switch. His STAB Leaf Storm handles any Rhydon or Lanturn hoping to absorb a Volt Switch. Rotom-C also has nice support moves in Rain Dance, Will-O-Wisp, etc. making him good on rain teams, which is pretty cool imo. These are also what make Rotom-C rather annoying.

Sceptile and Lilligant are really good as sweepers in this metagame, and have the stats to be able to sweep. Lilligant has her well known QD set that can just sweep whole teams like a hot knife through butter, running Sleep powder to remove a check, and after some boosts she can just sweep that whole team with speed and power. Sceptile is very versatile as an attacker and has very few counters between a physical and special set, and both of the sets are very lethal with Sceptile's speed, coverage, and power. Sceptile also enforces a mindgame by his appearance in Team Preview, for example, you could send in that Roselia or Amoonguss expecting a special set, only to get wrecked by SD Acrobatics. Or you could send in Ferroseed to beat physical Sceptile, and get maimed by a Focus Blast. This really makes Sceptile one hell of a threat in RU.

Now onto Roselia and Amoonguss. I love using Roselia in this metagame, since she's one of the best bulky spikers RU has to offer, having the bulk to set up Spikes and Toxic Spikes (this is really good in RU btw), and is an excellent special wall. She can set up hazards, but also wall common special threats such as Sceptile, Galvantula, Omastar, Lilligant, Rotom-C, etc. She isn't a sitting duck either; she has some nice offensive presence with 100 SpA and Giga Drain and Sludge Bomb, meaning she can deal some legit damage to the things she walls. Rest+Natural Cure is also really cool, so she can fully heal her HP and switch out with the Rest cycle removed. Amoonguss, on the other hand, has nice physical bulk to handle physical threats as well, as well as Spore. He has Synthesis and Regenerator, meaning when he switches, he can keep his HP high up throughout the match, a decent advantage over Roselia. He can also take on Pokemon such as Hitmonlee decently, and has Clear Smog to prevent any setup opportunities. Both of these are really good as defensive Pokemon in RU (Roselia should never have dropped to NU btw)

Ferroseed is also a really good defensive spiker much like his friend Roselia. While he's really weak offensively, his typing is really useful defensively and Iron Barbs also is an exceptional(ly annoying) ability. He has a myriad of resistances and nice bulk, which means he can set up Spikes very well. He also chips away at Druddigon's HP keeping Drudd very weak for the match, with Iron Barbs whilst locked into Outrage as well as Leech Seed, which is really cool. He can provide nice support to his team with Leech Seed and Thunder Wave, spreading paralysis and Leech Seed, which is awesome. Ferroseed may have been rather mediocre in the Queen meta, but in this metagame, it's really good.

Torterra seems really cool, and it looks like a good physical tank. It has Stealth Rock, and it can do a really good job at setting it up due to its nice bulk and useful typing. Rock Polish is also pretty cool and can make Torterra a viable physical sweeper. I haven't used Torterra, but it's definitely looking pretty good to use in RU (SV even said it's almost RU worthy, which gets me pretty intrigued!).

 

[DittoCrow]

I posted about Torterra and Exeggutor on the previous page, which I think are really good Grass-types. Exeggutor is harder to fit onto teams because it shares common weaknesses with a lot of other Pokemon you might choose for a team and faces competition from other Grass-types, but Torterra is fine being paired with other Grass-types from my experience. This leads me to something else I wanted to talk about:

Fire / Water / Grass Cores

FWG cores are very popular, as each type contains a good amount of top-tier Pokemon to choose from. In RU, there can be both offensive and defensive FWG cores, and the core found on some of the best teams in RU. Pokemon of these types just naturally perform well together. For example, I just chose 3 mons that popped into my head for the images above, but they complement each other's weaknesses; Emboar checks Slowking's switch-ins, such as Escavalier and Sceptile, Slowking checks Lilligant's switch-ins, such as Emboar, and Lilligant checks Emboar's switch-ins, such as Qwilfish and Kabutops. It's no secret that FWG cores are good, but I think that this can spark a good discussion for newer players to learn from.

• What are some FWG cores that you use?
• Which Pokemon can beat FWG cores?

 

[-Sparkbeat-]

This is probably the most standard FWG core at the moment, but it is for a good reason. Entei can rip apart the steel's that wall Kabutops and Rotom-C's Leaf Storm. Rotom-C beats Entei's counters such as Qwilfish, Quagsire, and Kabutops. It also lures in Steel and Grass types for Entei to destroy or make switch out again fo he can wear down the opponent with Flare Blitz. Rotom-C also provides a key immunity to ground, since Entei and Kabutops are both weak to it. Kabutops provides Rapid Spin support for Entei so he can switch in as much as possible, while also luring in Steels for Entei. It also provides a counter to Entei, and it gives the core a sweeper with Swords Dance. He also lures in Bulky Waters for Rotom-C to come in and steal momentum on, as well as Bulky Grass types for Entei. The only major thing this core struggles with it powerful Fighting types such as Medicham and Gallade. Medicham can come in on Kabutops or Entei and threaten the core (After I've killed something of course). Gallade loves setting up on Rotom-C, but can be revenged by Entei. Moltres can also be annoying, but can be revenged by Rotom-C.

 

[Cherub Agent]

DING DONG THE WITCH IS BACK

Back in the days of nidoqueen and cresselia, i was a massive fan of jynx, particularly the luna set. It sniped down nidoqueen and could set up on cresselia. When cress left the tier I kind of stopped using jynx, but molk recently asked me to test her out in the current metagame, kindly offering me a team too. And I have to say, I absolutely love her.

Firstly, when using Jynx, you have to accept that she really can't switch in, unless you're absolutely sure that you're coming in on a Water-type move. Fear not though, as she still shines despite this flaw of hers. Jynx is actually a pretty damn good lead, as she has the speed to either sleep or outright kill opposing hazard leads. Pokemon such as Golurk, Druddigon, Qwilfish are outright KOd by her STAB moves, while leads such as Crustle, Smeargle and Uxie can promptly be put to sleep. I've been using the Life Orb set, and it can quite happily just spam Ice Beam, 2HKOing and outspeeding the majority of the tier. The nasty thing about Jynx is really lovely kiss though: Pokemon such as Slowking which could normally wall her are just slept, and thus crippled for the rest of the match. The last move on the Life Orb set can really be customized as to what your team needs more. I've been using Focus Blast, but Hidden Power Fire also sees a lot of merit, as Escavalier often comes in on jynx, and also frequently runs sleep talk. It misses out on KOs on Pokemon such as Aggron, Steelix and Klinklang though, so it really depends on what your team needs to handle. Relying on a 75% and 70% accurate move will come back to bite you in the ass on more than one occasion though. Coming back to this frailty, Volt Switch and U-Turn users are especially good partners for Jynx to allow her to get in freely, particularly slow and bulky ones. Lanturn is a good choice for a slow volt switch, whereas Rotom-C is adept at smashing many things that give Jynx trouble with its Expert Belt set, such as Slowking and Escavalier. Another interesting Pokemon for this role that I intend to try out is Eelektross. It has a super slow VoltTurn, and smashes Slowking and Escavalier as well. Does anyone have any experience with Eelektross in RU?

 

[Molk]

FWG Cores:

I have to agree that FWG cores are: and always have been. Pretty good in BW2, while not every team is required to have one to be successful, they're certainly very helpful and the majority of of Fire, Water, and Grass-type pokemon mesh pretty well together both rolewise and in covering each others checks and counters. Heres an example of a nice FWG core i've used in the past.

This FWG core has a nice combination of raw power, revenge killing ability, synergy, and utility between them. The main reason i decided to try out a core like this in the first place (most specifically Entei and Rotom-C). Is because a few teams of mine needed a way to check certain threats while also revenge killing the majority of the tier and still having enough raw power to work with. Between Entei and Rotom-C, i can reliably pick off pretty much every fast offensive Pokemon/sweeper in the RU tier, either with Entei's powerful priority or Rotom-C's Speedy Volt Switch/Leaf Storm. its pretty nice that Entei and Rotom-C help out with each other's checks too, such as Rotom-C forcing out say Rhydon and Kabutops and Entei doing really well against Roselia and Amoonguss, making this offensive core even more solid. Qwilfish provides some utility to the core by switching into some Pokemon neither Entei nor Rotom-C can directly check such as Escavalier and Durant (although Rotom-C can certainly revenge kill the latter if needed) then proceed to set up Spikes to ensure KOs with ExtremeSpeed, Flare Blitz, Volt Switch etc and cripple threats with Thunder Wave. A reasonably fast Taunt also means Qwilfish can stop most hazard setters from doing their job right away, making sure Entei doesn't take hazards damage at least temporarily, and also absorbs Toxic Spikes simply by switching in so it doesn't have to deal with the burden of that either. As for synergy, Rotom-C can take almost all of the Volt Switches/Earthquakes often aimed at Qwilfish and can threaten teammates in return, Entei can take on Pokemon such as Lilligant and Sceptile that might try and switch in on Qwilfish while benefitting immensely from Spikes damage, and Qwilfish can take on dangerous Pokemon such as opposing Entei on for both Entei and Rotom-C with ease.

Jynx:

as the person who reintroduced Cherubagent to Jynx a day or so ago and as someone who's used Jynx quite a bit recently, i can agree that she's pretty cool in the metagame despite her flaws such as fraility. I've been using her on a hail team to give her a better Ice STAB to work with along with some residual damage from hail to help achieve KOs and she's been working pretty wonderfully. Jynx might not be able to switch in easily, but once she gets in, she's a really big immediate threat between her dual STABs, Lovely Kiss, and the possibility of Nasty Plot. Even Pokemon such as Slowking can be hesistant to come in on Jynx, as a Lovely Kiss will probably put them out of comission for just long enough for a more well suited Pokemon to come in and/or to trap Slowking. I personally ran Hidden Power Fire in the last slot on my Jynx because my team struggled a bit with Escavalier without it, but Focus Blast is certainly a good option too, hitting other common threats such as Aggron that Jynx can't outright OHKO without it. As for teammates outside of Snover, Escavalier worked out pretty nicely. I gave it enough Speed creep to outpace Slowking and either OHKO it with Megahorn or trap it with Pursuit, clearing the way for Jynx to clean up. Escavalier really appreciated Jynx's Lovely Kiss too, as it often crippled things trying to switch into Jynx that Escavalier also has trouble with, such as Entei (even if you run Sleep Talk not being able to choose your move can be really annoying). Jynx switched in on Qwilfish too, who flat out walls Escavalier and uses it as spikes fodder. Of course there were some common weaknesses the two shared, such as Fire mons , so i needed some extra team support from things like Kabutops to cover these. As i mentioned before though it could often work in my favor because a well placed Lovely Kiss could put an important pokemon out of comission and give Escavalier an easier time. So far the only set i've used is Lovely Kiss+3 attacks with a Life Orb, but i'm also thinking about trying out Scarf and SubNP Jynx soon. Does anyone have any experience with either of those in this meta? if so how did it go?

 

[EonX]

FWG Cores:

While I agree that FWG cores have always been really good (and still are) I don't find myself using full FWG cores that much in my recent teams. This could be due in large part to the rise of Druddigon in BW2 as it resists just about every moves each common member of the core carries (bar random HP Ice Rotom-C or the use of Samurott or Omastar as the Water-type in such a core) For a FWG core that I consistently use, I have to go back to a team that I still use today, but it dates all the way back before I went on hiatus during the Queen meta. (pretty sure I told Molk about it before, so he knows the full team used to support this core)

This FWG core is the one I used on my most successful team during the Queen meta (and it still works pretty well after a few minor changes post-Queen meta) This core has bulk, power, and an open-ended option for cleaning up late-game. The variants utilized are Choice Scarf Emboar, LO Subtile, and Choice Specs Slowking. Yeah, this core started back before Emboar was the well known Scarf user that he is today, so I guess you could say this core was ahead of its time lol. Anyways, Slowking is the one that ultimately determines if I will have an easier time finishing with Sceptile or Emboar. If Slowking removes Steel- and Grass-types quicker, then Sceptile is usually the go-to finisher. However, if Slowking is able to pick off Fire- and Water-types with greater ease, then Emboar will have the better shot at finishing. The beauty of it is that Sceptile and Emboar can even help each other. For instance, Sceptile and Emboar both have a tough time getting past Druddigon, but one can simply be used as a sacrifice to weaken Druddigon to pave the way for the other to finish the match. Of course, Slowking's access to Trick and Emboar's access to Sleep Talk means that I can get past walls easier and not have to worry about sleep so much. Heck, even revenge killers can be mitigated if Sceptile gets a Sub up fast enough. This is a solid offensive FWG core that still retains decent bulk (well, Slowking and Emboar anyway) and utility.

 

[atomicllamas]

This is the fire/water/grass core I used up until recently, and found it to be quite successful. As the above post mentioned, the rise of Druddigon gives many of these cores trouble, as it resists all of their STAB moves. However, this core is excellent, not only at getting around Druddigon, but also at providing solid support for each other. Kabutops clears hazards off the field that both of its fellow core members (especially Moltres) despise. Kabutops also acts as an excellent check to many fire-types in the tier, as well as adding the priority that every team should have. Its 4x weakness to grass is also a huge boon to this core, as grass type moves are essentially a free switch in for Moltres, and actually makes Sawsbuck more powerful if you elect to run sap sipper. Moltres is just really frickin good in this meta, as pretty much nothing likes taking one of Moltres's STAB. Its main counter, Lanturn, is destroyed by Sawsbuck (though you should watch out for scald). As I mentioned earlier, this core also gets around Druddigon via their dual STABs, as Druddigon doesn't enjoy Stone Edge, Hurricane, or Double edge, respectively, and Nature Power from Sawsbuck can get around sucker punch. This core does really appreciate help dealing with offensive electric and fighting type mons, as they can be very threatening to this core.

 

[Molk]

Heres another interesting topic

Pursuit and its users:

Pursuit is always a good support move to have, trapping Pokemon that might be harmful to your team early on is always a good thing, and RU is no different: especially when the most common Pokemon in the tier is vulnerable to the move! There are quite a few viable Pursuit users in RU, and there are many Pokemon that benefit from Pursuit support. I've posted three of the best Pursuit users above, and each has their own advantages and disadvantages and fit on different types of teams. Absol has by far the strongest Pursuit in the tier, doing a lot of damage to things like Slowking and Mesprit even if they stay in, and it has utility outside of Pursuit in the form of the strongest priority Sucker Punch in the game as well, allowing it to function as a powerful revenge killer and late game cleaner when its trapping job is already done/not needed. Spiritomb is one of the bulkier Pursuit users in the tier, and has the advantage of having decent bulk and no type weaknesses to prey on, meaning it can't really be eliminated by using lure moves such as Hidden Power Fire vs Escavalier. Spiritomb's Pursuit isn't as powerful as Absol's, but it'll still get the job done most of the time, especially because most of the potential pursuit targets either can't afford to stay in on tomb or can't KO Spiritomb first regardless even if they stay in. Lastly, Spiritomb has a handy immunity to Fighting-type moves, making it easily the best option for teams that need a Pursuit trapper and a Fighting-type check in the same teamslot. Escavalier doesn't have STAB on Pursuit like the other listed Pokemon do, but Escavalier's Pursuit is still strong enough to be an effective trapper due to its massive Attack stat. Outside of Pursuit trapping, Escavalier can break down walls with a ridiculously powerful CB Megahorn, absorb sleep, and check common threats such as Hidden Power Rock Lilligant, Accelgor, Sceptile, and Cryogonal. As for Pokemon that benefit from being paired with a Pursuit user: Hitmonlee and Medicham are the first that come to mind. Both of them can be really threatening later on in the game, but have a few Pokemon standing in their way: namely things like Slowking and Uxie which are often common targets of Pursuit. Once these Pokemon have been eliminated from the match, hitmonlee/medicham can probably run through the rest of the team easily, bar things like priority or faster Pokemon of course (but unburden boosted Hitmonlee and Scarf Medicham are pretty fast regardless, so fast pokemon without priority are less of a concern).

So, what are your favorite Pursuit users in the tier? How effective/important is the move in the current metagame, and what are some Pokemon that you think really benefit from having a Pursuit trapper on their side?

 

[EonX]

While I won't deny that the move is very useful in the current metagame (2 of the top 6 Pokemon in June's usage stats are weak to it) I just don't find myself using it much. For me, Absol is just too frail to be able to successfully Pursuit trap consistently (personally, I prefer Fire Blast over it tbh) while Spiritomb and Escavalier are typically choiced and this just invites Steel-types to come in at their own free will. I guess if I had to pick one, I'd go with Escavalier since it has a much easier time getting in thanks to its typing and mixed defenses. Yeah, I know Spiritomb has no type weaknesses, but its base HP is terrible, it's vulnerable to Toxic Spikes, and it has no reliable recovery (Escavalier doesn't either, but it at least can't be poisoned and has Overcoat to avoid residual damage from Hail)

As for Pokemon that benefit from Pursuit trappers, Molk has already mentioned two of the big ones, but Hitmonchan is another. Its standard LO set has a much easier time abusing Mach Punch with Ghosts and Psychics out of the picture. In fact, most of the Pokemon that can take Hitmonchan's coverage options are bulky Ghost- and Psychic-types. Another would, ironically enough, also be a main target of Pursuit in Mesprit. Mesprit's biggest issue with sweeping are the likes of Uxie, Rotom-N, and Steel-types. While Pursuit won't take out Steel-types, it will deal with the Ghost- and Psychic-types that can either take a hit from Mesprit and cripple it, or outspeed and KO it before it can do anything back. (Absol's Superpower and/or Fire Blast can help with Steels though!)

 

[SilentVerse]

Imo, Pursuit is one of the strongest moves in the current RU metagame. The sheer support that it is able to provide by giving offense a solid means of wearing down / KOing Slowking is ridiculously useful. Literally everything that has issues with Slowking (Entei, Hitmonlee, Emboar, Medicham, other Fighting- and Fire-types) benefits from Pursuit support, and since Slowking is usually the main thing holding those Pokemon back, having a way to remove it is incredibly useful. Pursuit isn't really just limited to killing Slowking / stuff like Uxie and Mesprit either; so much other stuff is vulnerable to Pursuit in this meta that I actually find myself almost always slapping it onto offensive teams due to its sheer utility. Like, Pursuit can also help wear down otherwise incredibly difficult Pokemon to wear down such as Amoonguss, remove other frail special walls such as Roselia and Cryogonal to pave the way for special sweepers, and to pick off frail sweepers like Sceptile, Gallade, Accelgor, Cinccino, and Manectric. There's a reason why stuff like complete_legitimacy's Magmortar + Spiritomb combo worked so well in BW1; Pursuit can just completely remove much of RU's best answers to many common offensive Pokemon, and there are so many offensive Pokemon who can take advantage of that as a result.

As far as Pursuit users go, Escavalier is definitely my favorite. As a Steel-type, it has so many resistances it can come in on, which means it can often land that crucial Pursuit on those frail, special walls or sweepers very easily. Like, you can bring Escavalier in on stuff like Sceptile's Giga Drain, Cinccinos' Bullet Seed or Tail Slap, Accelgor's Bug Buzz, Roselia's Sludge Bomb, etc, and once it comes in, you can basically ensure that those Pokemon will be removed since even with no STAB bonus, Escavalier still hits ridiculously hard with Pursuit. Absol is also quite good, though I feel it's also a lot riskier due to its lack of resistances; I often find myself having to use U-turn / Volt Switch / clever double switching to bring it in safely; however, the reward for using Absol is also pretty huge, since yeah, it has by far the strongest Pursuit in the tier. I'm generally not a fan of Spiritomb though, since it's coverage is just so bad, and running offensive Spiritomb is just begging for something like Aggron to come and set up on you (at least Escavalier can somewhat ward off Aggron with Iron Head...).

 

[Mylo Xyloto]

Like the above users stated Pursuit is a pretty useful move in a tier where Psychic-types rule. Spiritomb is my favorite, since having the extra Ghost-typing is pretty cool for spinblocking. Pursuing a feeing Cryogonal after blocking its rapid spin is pretty cool. It saves a team slot and has no weaknesses. Due to its dual Ghost- and Dark-typing it checks Fighting and Normal-types as well. Having access to STAB Sucker Punch, Pursuit, Shadow Sneak (especially useful vs Gallade), Foul Play (on defensive sets or even offensive ones) and Will-o-Wisp to cripple incoming check/counter like Aggron or Escavalier. Trick with Choice Band, another cool move in Spiritomb's movepool enables it to cripple defensive walls that switch in like Tangrowth and Ferroseed. Foul Play probably my favorite move on Spiritomb. Having the ability to beat most pokemon that think they can come in for free and set-up. Examples like SD Absol switching into a Sucker Punch thinking its choiced locked, is getting OHKO'd by Foul Play after Absol boosts. I personally like using the BlackGlasses set, Sucker Punch / Pursuit / Shadow Sneak / Foul Play with a spread of 252 Atk / 248 HP / 8 Def Adamant nature. Its not the best set but it works for me =)

For Fire / Water / Grass cores I usually use a combination of Moltres + Kabutops + Roselia. The effectively sets up hazards and remove hazards for Moltres to sweep. Roselia also provides a check to Electric-, Grass- and Water-types that gives Moltres and Kabutops trouble. Emboar is a bit of a problem since it has the coverage to hit all 3 for SE damage. Kabutops outpaces the Choice Band sets and can retaliate with Waterfall and can dent the Choice Scarf sets with Aqua Jet. When locked into Flare Blitz or Super Power Moltres KOs with Hurricane or sub up. And when Emboars locked into Wild Charge or Super Power Roselia can set spikes up. Druddigon, another boon to FWG cores beat this core, although between a Hurricane from Moltres and a Stone Edge form Kabutops KOs it. Druddigon stil needs to be handle with caution. Some thing like Escavalier fits the bill since it can deal with Slowking more reliable than Roselia. Uxie is another pokemon that beats this core, more specifically SubCM. It easily sets up on Roselia so again Escavalier fits the bill.

 

[Oddish is the best]

Has anyone here thought that Slowkings massive usage is a bit worrisome? It just seems like it is a little too good right now...

 

[mkizzy]

Has anyone here thought that Slowkings massive usage is a bit worrisome? It just seems like it is a little too good right now...

Not really, lots of usage =/= broken and lots of usage =/= overcentralizing. Although it's a arguably the best mon in RU atm and it certainly is metagame defining, it definitely isn't over the top imo (I think many would agree with me here.) Stuff like Druddigon (another fan favorite) and Pursuit users (pretty abundant in RU, with Absol, Spiritomb, Escavalier, etc.) can check Slowking, along with a Slowking of your own if necessary. Also, Occa Berry/Speed invested Escavalier can wreck Slowking's day (84 speed EVs and you outspeed.) And although Slowking is a good defensive mon, most teams naturally have something that can OHKO/2HKO in a pinch, even if it's not a counter. Also Slowking is weak to many common moves, the afformentioned Pursuit, Night Slash/Crunch, Sucker Punch, Megahorn, Giga Drain/Leaf Storm, U-Turn/Volt Switch, Tbolt, among others. oh and even without Pursuit, SpD Spiritomb can beat Slowking (if it's not specs, but other Slowking with Toxic, some good prediction skills, and Druddigon (one time check though. Psyshock OHKOs) can help you beat Slowking)

tl;dr: Slowking is definitely metagame-defining and strong, but definitely not 'too good.'

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Okay, I'll chime in the discussion, I guess!

FWG Cores:

This is my favorite FWG core in the tier so far. This is basically a slightly edited version of Molk's FWG core, with Omastar in place, but I used this a lot especially in my latest RU RMT (Omastar also synergizes well with Scolipede, for the record). This core has a fair balance of bulk and power as well as an excellent late game cleaner in Omastar. Rotom-C and Entei make a great revenge killing duo that can also make an excellent Smeargle destruction duo, with Rotom-C firing a fast Volt Switch to break Smeargle's Sash, with Entei coming in to absorb the sleep and make work of Smeargle. Omastar can take advantage of what these two leave behind, and can grab a Smash boost and sweep the team with ease. As an alternative, Omastar can also function as a hazard setter like Qwil, and set up hazards quite handily for the team to succeed. Omastar's Ice Beam is probably your best bet to handle Druddigon, although Escavalier can also provide a secondary Sleep Talker as well as a way to check Druddigon. This is a really good FWG core that I admire using.

Pursuit:

Yeah, Pursuit is a really good move in this metagame, a great move in general too. Especially given the popularity of stuff such as Mesprit (fave Pokemon <3), and others, it's really useful. Absol has worked really well for me, being able to keep Psychic-types in a really bad position between Sucker Punch, Pursuit, and Night Slash while hitting hard in general. He has some good power, which leaves them in a really bad position. It's a really good "fast Pursuit trapper" that can function well. Escavalier has also done me wonders. He has a superb defensive typing, allowing him to come in on whatever he likes and freely Pursuit trap. He can take on threats such as Spiritomb, Uxie, and Mesprit pretty well, and has a way with its Pursuit to trap them. It also hits really hard, with STAB Megahorn doing really well in general. These are my favorite Pursuit trappers by far, and work well. Absol+Hitmonlee is fantastic, since Absol can trap most Psychics and Ghosts while Hitmonlee can then sweep the team clean.

 

[EonX]

Has anyone here thought that Slowkings massive usage is a bit worrisome? It just seems like it is a little too good right now...

Not exactly. Slowking is kind of like RU's Scizor to a certain extent. Yeah, it tops the usage stats month in and month out. Yes, it's a really good pivot with its mixed defenses and Regenerator. Sure, it fits on a lot of teams. However, there are plenty of things that can handle Slowking. Sceptile and Rotom-C are two of the best Grass-types in the tier and they can make quick work of Slowking while finding their way in on a resisted STAB move. Almost any Psychic-type that can use a Grass- or Electric-type coverage move will fare well against Slowking. This would include Mesprit, Uxie, Sigilyph, and the rare Gardevoir. Druddigon and Escavalier are also very dangerous for Slowking despite how good of teammates they can be. Pursuit users like Escavalier, Spiritomb, and Absol (to a lesser extent due to frailty) can put Slowking in a no-win situation as well between their STABs and Pursuit. Slowking might be the best Pokemon in the tier right now, but I don't think it's anywhere close to being "too good" as it has plenty of checks and counters that fit various teams.

 

[Cherub Agent]

I just wanted to post and say how incredibly underrated Omastar is as a late game sweeper at the moment. Many solid teams simply aren't prepared to deal with it, and I'm going to show you lot why. First of all, the first thing that comes to mind when preventing an Omastar sweep is to revenge kill it. It only has a 55 Base Speed, how hard can it be? Wrong. Omastar cheerfully outspeeds the by far most common scarfer in RU, Rotom-C, and demolishes it with a +2 Ice Beam (I've actually had opponents rage at me and call me a hacker because for some reason they think Rotom-C outspeeds :p). There are of course Scarfers that do outspeed Omastar, but they are uncommon or easily taken advantage of by its teammates, which I'll get to later.

The next thing that makes Omastar the awesome snail that it is is its bulk and typing. base 125 Defense, and resistances to Normal, Flying and Fire go a long way to actually getting up that Shell Smash in the first place. The trick is to lure in the attacks that Omastar can set up on, and at the same time have a teammate that not only does this, but also deals with the things Omastar does have trouble with. The most obvious and best way to do this is to utilize Grass-types. Alone from the synergetic point of view, Grass-types lure Entei into a Flare Blitz, Flying-types into a Brave Bird, etc. Meanwhile, Omastar can double switch to a Grass-type on moves such as Thunderbolt, Giga Drain and Earthquake. Amoonguss and Roselia are excellent choices, as the former can cripple whatever gives Omastar trouble with status (Sleep and Paralysis), while the latter can provide Spikes which can push a couple bulky Pokemon into Omastar's killing range. They also heavily dissuade Entei and other choiced Fire-types into using HP Grass. You also have to keep in mind that you CAN let your opponent kill off your Grass-type with Flare Blitz w/e, as it's just a free setup opportunity for Omastar. Roselia and Amoonguss are also excellent switchins to some of the few Scarfers that do outspeed Omastar, such as Manectric, Lilligant and Rotom-N. Hitmonlee is another case actually which Omastar has trouble with, as a Fighting Gem Mach Puch can KO on reduced Defenses, or it can flinch Omastar with the Normal Gem and proceed to knock it out with Close Comat or HJK, which is again why Amoonguss is a powerful partner, as well as Pokemon such as Golurk and Uxie.

Next I'd like to give my thoughts on the items that Omastar currently carries. Of them, I honestly find White Herb to be the inferior option. While it's nice that it nullifies the stat drops, you're not really going to have much opportunity to benefit from this. Omastar is slow enough that it'll generally Shell Smash after it takes an attack, so it won't sufer from the dropped defenses. Then, after it does Shell Smash, the recovered defenses still won't help if your opponent has a Pokemon that can outspeed and OHKO Omastar, as Electric- and Grass-type moves will KO it regardless. No, I much prefer using Life Orb or Lum Berry. Both fulfill specific purposes that you will have to choose depending on what your team struggles with the most. Life Orb obviously has less survivability than Lum Berry, but has a far greater power, as gives Omastar a 50% chance to OHKO Clefable with Hydro Pump after a Shell Smash, and get a far nastier hit on other bulky Pokemon such as Slowking (the Specs version, ie 212 HP, is OHKOd by HP Grass after Stealth Rock and with Life Orb), and is thus less reliant on teammates to wallbreak. If you DO have a powerful wallbreaker that can smash through specially defensive Pokemon (here Absol comes to mind, as it can Superpower the pink blobs, trap and kill Slowking, etc. Escavalier is also an excellent option for the same reasons, but has a far easier time switching in, not to mention DOUBLE SNAIL) then Lum Berry becomes a more appealing option. You see, Lum Berry gives Omastar more opportunities to set up on walls, such as Uxie, Clefable and more. Keep in mind that Lum Berry really only should be used in the lategame though, where everything is weakened, as Omastar just doesn't have the power to push past defensive Slowking with it. Life Orb can be used midgame due to the far higher increase in power, and that's also where most Flare Blitzes get thrown around.

I just kind of wanted to post about Omastar because it's a Pokemon i rarely see nowadays, and when I do see it it's often used wrongly, and thus doesn't live up to its potential :/

 

[EonX]

I never really understood why White Herb is ever used on Omastar. It has the bulk to take the hits and it's slow enough to take one before it uses SS. Personally, I prefer using a Lum Berry on it as it gives me a wider range of targets to use as setup bait. Sure, the power loss from Life Orb can hurt in some situations, but I just love being able to get that free pass on status. I generally use a wallbreaker (or two) on my teams, so the power drop really doesn't hurt that much considering stuff is going to be weakened anyway. As Cherub said, you can switch Omastar in on Flare Blitzes and other various resisted hits, but I usually just make a sacrifice play to get Omastar in safe for sure. However, there's another reason I like Omastar other than its great Smash set. That's its Suicide Hazards set.

So, yeah, I know there's Smeargle and Crustle for that suicide SR+Spikes lead, but Omastar has much greater offensive power and hits from the special side. The other cool thing? It crushes opposing Golurk and Druddigon leads and can leave a dent in the opposing team if need be. Usually, I just run Spikes on it and leave SR to something else, but SR can get some use for sure. Oh, and don't forget its defensive hazards set either. It gets all 3 entry hazards, has great defense, and a solid Special Attack stat. Slot in the 2 types of hazards your team needs, run Scald and Ice Beam to fend stuff off, and deal with physical attackers like Kabutops, Swellow, and Absol (sort of) It may not be as good as the other 2 sets on average, but it can still get the job done when supported properly.

 

[Explorer]

I think that if we are suspecting hail, we should talk about ways to get around it. My thought is to discuss the other weathers and how the manual weather inducers/sweepers fare against hail.

Part I- Sun

Weather Inducers

These Pokemon are some sun setters I commonly see/have tested/appear viable otherwise (Mesprit). Often I don't advise using Fire and Grass-types as sun setters for synergy reasons, and there are other sun setters available. These Pokemon all have good defenses and, besides Bouffalant, can abuse the sun themselves offensively with a combination of Fire Blast, Fire Punch, and Solarbeam.

Chlorophyll Sweepers

Obviously these are all grass-types. They can all access a strong boosting move (Growth/Quiver Dance/Swords Dance) and use powerful attacks of multiple types. However they are all frail and weak to Blizzard, making it important to eliminate BlizzSpammers early on.

Fire-type Sweepers

These Pokemon are usually the team's anti-Hail Pokemon (other than the event where you use Thick Fat Hariyama, which checks common Hail Pokemon very well). They use very strong Fire-type attacks frequently and destroy many Pokemon common to Hail teams. Emboar is the premier choice for physical attacks, and Moltres for special attacks. However, Emboar is often better because of better coverage moves, a resistance to Ice-type moves, and neutrality to Stealth Rock. Still, any of these above Pokemon can be viable with the right support.

Other Support

Manectric is a great revenge killer for sun teams because it is not reliant on the weather for its speed, and it can use a boosted Flamethrower/Overheat if under sun. Unlike Galvantula, it also has access to Switcheroo to destroy premier Hail staller Walrein.

Armaldo is usually my choice for a Rapid Spinner for sun teams, because using the Water-type Kabutops is counterproductive on a sun team. Armaldo also has the benefit of setting up Stealth Rock AND Sunny Day, but generally it is best to give it two of those support moves. Its main STAB move, Stone Edge, also hits Snover, Walrein, Rotom-F, etc. very hard. However, spinners such as Cryogonal can be helpful in certain situations, like if you need a Ground immunity or certain other synergy requirements.

I'm saving rain and sandstorm for later so we can just talk about sun for now. I think we'll get more discussion this way.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

With all the hail discussion out onto another thread, I'd like to talk about a playstyle I've found to be really excellent in the current metagame.

Trick Room

Imo, Trick Room is an awesome strategy in RU (and always has been, although not as much as in BW1 when Cofagrigus was with us (I miss Cofagrigus :( ). There are plenty of slow and strong hard hitters in RU; Druddigon and Escavalier, of which I have on display in this post, are both prime examples of this. There's also plenty of Trick Room setters, such as Slowking, Mesprit, and Dusknoir, of which can set up Trick Room very reliably for such teams (Dusknoir is crap but Trick Room teams have uses for it). Trick Room can easily turn the tide of a match because all of the slower Pokemon get to go first for the five turns of the twisted dimensions; and given we have very powerful but slow Pokemon available, this means Trick Room can be a great way to make faster teams a complete liability. Usually with CB Powerhouses, as well as strong special attackers to set up TR, such as Mesprit being able to do heavy damage as well, Trick Room can be a complete nuisance to teams and is a strong strategy. Sacrificial moves such as Explosion, Memento, Healing Wish, and Destiny Bond are also annoyances (Healing Wish especially; not many teams can handle two Druddigons or Escavaliers, hence why Mesprit is one of the faces of TR). So what do you guys think about TR and how it does in RU? Specifically, what are good choices for TR teams and what do you use to handle TR teams?

 

[EonX]

Hm, Trick Room isn't a playstyle I have too much experience with in terms of using, but I have faced quite a few before and they're very effective in the current metagame. While SiTB has highlighted some of the faces of TR, I'm going to highlight some less common TR users (and setters!)

Emboar: Emboar is most commonly seen as one of the most reliable Choice Scarf users in the tier, but it is more than capable of using TR effectively. Because of its typing, it works very well with most TR Pokemon and can run a mean Choice Band / LO set that maximizes power and minimizes Speed. Emboar checks Steel-types and Pursuit users admirably, but best of all; it beats Escavalier one-on-one which is perhaps the single biggest threat to TR teams. That alone is a reason to use Emboar on a TR team imo.

Aggron: Another heavy hitter that suddenly becomes a menace in TR. Like Emboar, it handles most Pursuit users admirably and can usually handle Escavalier pretty well though its neutrality to Iron Head makes it shakier than Emboar who also sports a 4x resistance to Megahorn. Slowking and Mesprit both handle Aggron's weaknesses pretty well for the most part (Mesprit especially thanks to that Ground immunity) and a Head Smash from Aggron will pretty much take out any non-bulky Rock resist in two hits.

Exeggutor: Exeggutor is another solid Trick Room setter that brings solid utility to the table. While Slowking has Regenerator and Mesprit has Healing Wish, Exeggutor has access to Sleep Powder to pretty much ensure it gets TR up in the absence of a Taunt user. Like Slowking and Mesprit, Eggy has the Special Attack to use TR itself, but it doesn't have the bulk to withstand much more than one hit normally. Still a solid TR setter thanks to its access to Sleep Powder and its low Speed.

Bouffalant: Although the afro bull isn't overly common in RU, it is a superb switch-in to most of the Grass-types that will typically come in on typical TR setters such as Slowking and Mesprit. Its high Attack and low Speed make it perfect for abusing TR as it has a great STAB move to abuse in Head Charge (Return for more conservative players) and solid EdgeQuake coverage to back it up. It also has Megahorn should you desire a way to absolutely smash Slowking, a common threat to Trick Room teams.

Tangrowth: Tangrowth is also very solid in Trick Room. You may look at it as sort of odd at first, but it has access to Sleep Powder and can obliterate Slowking. It can also run HP Fire to catch Escavalier or HP Rock to rock Moltres's world. Tangrowth is capable of going mixed thanks to Power Whip while a pure special set allows Tangrowth to run Giga Drain and/or Leaf Storm.

Whimsicott: This looks stupid at first, but remember that Whimsicott does have Prankster. This means it will set TR up even if the opponent has a Taunt user. Whimsicott has Taunt itself to discourage setup while Encore can force the opponent into using a useless move such as SR or SD over and over again to give a teammate free entry into battle. Whimsicott has a "slow" U-turn in TR to get teammates in safely once it has set TR up. However, unlike most other TR setters, it is pure support and has no offensive presence whatsoever.