Metagame NP: RU Stage 2.5: Kids (READ POST #265)

[Paleo]

Ah, Zoro
This mon is probably one of the biggest offensive threats currently in the metagame. With versatile sets of swords dance, pursuit trapper, specs, or all out mixed, you've got yourself a potent attacker. But the factor that makes it stand out the most, of course, is Illusion. Running a set that beats your team's weaknesses gives it the ability to lure in counters such has Slowking, Jellicent, and Rhyperior (grass knot) and remove it from the game. Another example is running it with sd Cobalion to get rid Gligar with an hp ice or Slowkings with pursuit/ knock off. It always makes the opponent second guess on whether its Zoroark or the real thing. Most ways to tell are from hazards damage and acknowledging the amount of hp the opponent has. Since many zoro are life orbed, its easy to take into account the recoil damage. Aromatisse, Gurdurr,and Drapion are one of the more safer switch ins, while Emboar can take up to half after rocks and a knock off. Not saying it should or shouldn't be suspected, but it definitely is something to take seriously.

 

[mallpal]

And to everybody who still thinks Sticky Web teams are good: Cinccino.

There's really no good way to get it up. Let's face it, web offense is doomed.

252 Atk Choice Band Cinccino Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 132 Def Eviolite Swadloon: 220-260 (70 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

web isn't entirely helpless. zoroark can lure cino too. swadloon obviously isn't shuckle and the lead + 5 wallbreaker build is well and truly dead, but yeah web can still be viable on some level

 

[Afro Smash]

How strong do you think Zoroark is in the current metagame?
I think it is very strong, and always has been, Illusion is a fantastic ability and Zoroark is just a great offensive mon in its own right.

What sets do you find work effectively on Zoroark?
Well I've used 2 mainly, Pursuit Zoroark is fantastic for removing Melo/Slowking/Delphox, though people are getting wise to it and staying in now from what i've seen, and then 3 Sp Atks and Sucker Punch, which can shred through walls depending on the coverage moves you pick, and then still revenge offensive mons with Sucker.

What teammates work most effectively with Zoroark?
Anything that has counters that Zoroark can remove or cripple, as Tsunami said baiting in Slowking when you're disguised as a Moltres, baiting in Doublade when disguised as a Meloetta, baiting in Gligar when disguised as Hitmonlee (assuming HP Ice) it has the potential to lure in a lot of pokemon.

What do you use to check and counter Zoroark?
Fairies Fairies Fairies, Zoroark has no coverage moves to take on Fairies, and will be OHKO'd by basically any attack, so Granbull, Slurpuff and especially Aromatisse are the best counters (Granbull not so much if fully Special Zoro). Virizion and Cobalion are great Checks, enjoying Knock Off, only fearing Flamethrower from mixed sets, and even that's not guaranteed 2hko on Virizion. Gurdurr is a great Check (unless you run Extrasensory, fuck Wepwn) though it doesn't like having its eviolite removed. Mixed Defense Alo can generally take Special and phys sets well, and is a complete stop to most Physical sets. Drapion is a good Check, especially Sp Def, taking on Mixed sets easily. Gligar is a good Check to sets lacking HP Ice, though that is becoming more common. Emboar finally is also a great Check, resisting majority of Zoroark's common moves.

The thing to note is though, is that aside from Fairies, Gurdurr and Virizion, Zoroark's Checks and Counters are very dependent on the moves Zoroark is running. This means that initially switching in to Zoroark is difficult, but that Zoroark will always find itself walled by something.

If you can do so at all, how do you attempt to tell Zoroark apart from its teammates, and if it successfully lures in one of your Pokemon, how do you make a comeback?
First and foremost is Hazard damage, a lot of thing that benefit from Zoroark's illusion are not affected by hazards the same way he is (Moltres, Hitmonlee etc.). Second, there's Life Orb recoil, since basically every Zoro runs LO, unless another mon is affected the same by Hazards and has taken the same amount of LO recoil, this should be a dead giveaway.

Making a comeback is completely match up dependent, not really possible to tell speaking hypothetically, but if the opponent has a Zoroark then I'd just say its probably advisable to scout with a Check first before your Counter, since after the initial scout you should be able to keep track of who Zoro is for the remainder of the game.

 

[Turtleye]

I use Zoroark to clean the path for Swellow via Flamethrower and Grass Knot and it's just so extremely good at doing it's job as well as weakening the opposing team. Via knock Off, Sucker Punch, Grass Knot and Flamethrower it can really hurt opposing teams. It's just so good to send out Zoroark vs Rhyperior disgusied as Swellow and OHKO it, it's not even funny.

I think Zoroark might be a bit too much for the metagame, as a skilled user can easily win the game thanks to Zoroark.

There are not a lot of checks and counters due to the mirad of different sets it can run (Mixed LO, Specs, SD, NP, heck even Band is decently viable because it gets U-turn) and you dont know if you are actually fighting Zoroark or the real Pokemon

 

[Kawaii Kyouko]

How strong do you think Zoroark is in the current metagame?
Well, I haven't playez i n a while but zoroark is a mon that will always be a toptier threat due to how versatile, strong and sexy it is. Its a bit like Marco Reus in that it can perform all offensive roles damn well. Like he can be a winger by breaking your setup sweepers checks/counters with a mix/all out attack set or simply go for the striking role himself with np or sd.

What sets do you find work effectively on Zoroark?
Well ive only used the specs and mix set and imo mix is the better.

What teammates work most effectively with Zoroark?
I love ZoroBoarCore. Zoroark destroys slowkings and emboar destroys aromatisses. Rly cool core and kudos to the wise cunt that postdd it in the core thread.

What do you use to check and counter Zoroark?
Predictions or aromatisse. Tbf it rly depends on what i believe he'll use and switch approriately. I always assume mix so aromatisse usually does it. Fletchinder can also check it to be honest.

If you can do so at all, how do you attempt to tell Zoroark apart from its teammates, and if it successfully lures in one of your Pokemon, how do you make a comeback?
Well it depends on whether he sends in a rly weird mon or somethin. Other than that i always keep ahead on dmg from hazards or direct hits. If he dods nail a mon of mine i usuLly send i a sdtup sweeper that threatens him mike cobalion or virizion.

Drunk and phone writing oml. Impossimle.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Zoroark is a really effective Pokemon in this metagame imo and is easily one of the best Pokemon in the tier. It's a pretty versatile offensive Pokemon, being able to go either mixed (favorite set), SD, or Specs (NP I think is effective too). All of those sets are pretty effective imo and are only part of what make Zoroark so good. Illusion is a pretty awesome ability as well and allows Zoroark to disguise itself as one of its teammates, and possibly fool the opponent and obtain a free boost with SD or NP. One of my favorite teammates to use with Zoroark is Slurpuff; Zoro can disgiuse itself as Slurpuff and attract its common counters, namely Doublade and to an extent Rhyperior and Escavalier, and make mince meat of them. In the disguise of Slurpuff, Fighting-types also won't try and come in, which is neat too. Zoroark, with Illusion, can make a great teammate for any Pokemon who needs Doublade off the field, since it can attract Doublade in certain disguises and wreck it. As said above, Emboar is a neat teammate too since it appreciates Zoroark's ability to beat Slowking.

As for what I use to beat Zoroark, Aromatisse is arguably the best answer to Zoroark in the tier, being able to wall it like it's no one's business. Slurpuff isn't shabby either, and Belly Drum sets can actually take advantage of it, which is nice. If I can identify Zoroark, which most of the time ironically I can, I also occasionally rely on Hitmonlee's Mach Punch, although Sucker Punch is kinda a problem. Other than that, I might try and revenge kill it otherwise, namely with Virizion and Cobalion. As for how to identify Zoro, setting up SR is usually the way I go, since Zoro always takes normal damage from it, and if they send out another mon that probably won't be effective against me than I can probably tell that it's Zoro. If I wind up getting my Doublade lured in (this is usually the most common victim of Zoro on my teams), I usually try to come back with something that can beat it and possibly the other parts of the team.

Yeah, just my thoughts on Zoro, I might post about something else later but eh. PS: http://goo.my/banthispls

 

[g]

How strong do you think Zoroark is in the current metagame?
Zoroark is obviously one of the main forces in the current Rarelyused metagame. It has an awesome offensive movepool and great stats to back it up and access to one of the best STABs in this generation, Dark, that gives it a super wide neutral coverage with a STAB move with no immunites and that removes items. It also has the stronger priority move in the tier and can run a Mixed or fully Special set to take out all kinds of walls. It also has a sick ability in illusion that forces a lot of 50/50s if well abused and can grant a lot of setup opportunities if played well. Zoroark, however, has like no bulk whatsoever, is put in check by common pokemon like Virizion and Cobalion, and is a bit (only a bit) lacking in power without a boost.

What sets do you find work effectively on Zoroark?
Zoroark has an awful lot of sets. The one i like the most at the moment is the Swords Dance set. As a well played Illusion forces quite a ton of switches setting up is not that hard and a +2 Zoroark is terrifying for offensive teams to deal with as it has the power to OHKO Hitmonlee before Mach Punch hits and to outprioritize other priority users like Fletchinder. It can also deal with conventional checks like Skuntank with a bit of entry hazard support as he is capable of ohkoing them most of the time with a boosted Return or to wreck Gligar with an HP Ice that is going to hurt from a base 125 Special Attack. Other sets like Mixed take even more advantage of illusion letting Moltres kill unsuspecting Slowking and still abuse Sucker Punch's utility while 2HKOing stuff like Alomomola and OHKOing Rhyperior with Grass Knot. Pursuit is also really good to do heavy damage to fleeing Slowking and Cress if the Illusion is revealed (or not). There are also fully special sets like Nasty Plot and Choice Specs but they kinda lack in power unboosted as Zoroark is forced to use Dark Pulse or Night Daze instead of Knock Off and there is no special priority to abuse. Other stuff that i feel could be explored is the use of Memento which looks great on paper but i haven't had a chance to use lately

What teammates work most effectively with Zoroark?
Moltres and Cobalion usually lure stuff like Cresselia and Slowking that Zoroark can easily 2HKO or OHKO and fighting types in general are in the same boat though Aromatisse usually walls them so be careful. Depending on your moves Zoroark can practically lure and 2HKO anything that is not fairy so take your pick really

What do you use to check and counter Zoroark?
Fairy types usually take everything Zoroark throws at them and Aromatisse is the best choice for this role usually, walling everything but +2 Return which 2HKOs even physically defensive spreads. Fighting Types like Hitmontop and Gurdurr and bulky Dark-type Pokemon like Skuntank and Drapion usually wall the mixed set but the former fears Specs Extrasensory and the latter two can't take specific Hidden powers nor enjoy Focus Blast. Gligar and Golbat lose their Eviolite but can usually wall mixed Zoroark without Hidden power Ice or Extrasensory decently. Hitmonlee checks the Mixed Set as it can revenge Kill with Mach Punch while tacking one Sucker Punch but straight dies to a +2 one and Emboar doesn't like Knock Off but usually resists any move Zoroark carries (dies to +2 Low Kick and Return if no Scarf tho). Finally, Virizion and Cobalion switch into anything not named Flamethrower, can potentially get Justified activated, and easily OHKO with a STAB.

If you can do so at all, how do you attempt to tell Zoroark apart from its teammates, and if it successfully lures in one of your Pokemon, how do you make a comeback?
Entry Hazard damage, lack of Leftovers on strange mons and LO recoil easily show who is the Zoroark and if your team has Toxic Spikes support Illusion becomes useless. Keeping a fighting type or something else that can check Zoroark until late game is usually a good strategy as Zoroark can't really OHKO Bulky stuff without a SE move.

 

[complete legitimacy]

Zoroark definitely deserves a suspect test. A well-played Zoroark forces a 50/50 on basically every turn because Knock Off is stupidly good and very powerful. Like other people have said before me, it's arguably the best lure ever created. Right now RU is a metagame where there are threatening sweepers with few counters like Yanmega, Hitmonlee, Delphox, and Sharpedo, and Zoroark's ability to take out the counters to these threats is ridiculous. With Zoroark in the mix, you often have to choose between switching in your counter to threatening sweeper x or switching to your Zoroark counter (which still might not work because of Pursuit). Of course, if you switch to the wrong one, you can often be punished. Zoroark is versatile, but honestly I don't really think that there's any reason to run any set other than mixed Life Orb with Knock Off. If you try to set up with it, then it's just another threat that can be stopped by Aromatisse, Gurdurr, etc. Zoroark can punish you for losing the 50/50 with the strength of Knock Off, and there are so many 50/50s in a game with Zoroark that you are far more likely to lose at least one than win every single time.

 

[New Breed]

Zoroark is a shit and forces as many 50/50's as aegislash in ou (u can call me a ban me please ou player hehe bwoiiiiii) but it's not broken because u can use it too!!!!!!!

Will make a serious post on my thoughts when tyrant Molk decides to post next np thread

 

[Pinkin Lark]

How strong do you think Zoroark is in the current metagame?
Simply, Zoroark is a great Pokemon offensively. Combine great Attack stats with a top-tier speed and two +2 setup moves, and you have a potential monster. However, his movepool leaves a bit to be desired on each side, as well as his 60/60/60 defenses leave him vulnerable to pretty much any neutral hit or U-turn from anything with good Attack.Illusion can provide for a great amount of mindgames, especially when pulled off well, but hazards and a bit of simple observation and common sense can counteract it well enough(you're being a tad obvious when that Yanmega doesn't lose 50% to Rocks).

What sets do you find work effectively on Zoroark?
I've personally only used the Special Attack variants with Zoroark, with either Life Orb/Expert Belt, though I know that Focus Sash is (annoyingly) a very common choice. Even without a boost from Nasty Plot, not much wants to take a Dark Pulse from it. As for Physical Zoroark, I believe the main strength of it comes from Gen VI's buff to Knock Off, giving it a massive physical STAB that isn't Sucker Punch.

What teammates work most effectively with Zoroark?
In my opinion, Zoroark's best teammates are those he can mindgame common picks with. One of my favorites is Marowak, due to the heavy presence of Jolteon. Most Jolt leads will see a Marowak and consider either using HP Ice or simply hard switching, leaving you either taking a moderate hit and allowing you to set up a kill, or getting free damage on whatever comes in to counter the "Marowak" (usually something like Alomomola).

What do you use to check and counter Zoroark?
As already mentioned, Fairy types. Again, Zoroark's movepool comes into play in that regard, but Fairy types aren't terribly prevalent in RU, and have a fair amount of counters within the tier. While Zoroark outspeeds most of the tier, he can't take most neutral hits very well. And while he lacks the 4x weakness to bug like Shiftry and Malamar have, a U-turn will still rip him apart. Finally, while Shuckle may be banned, Sticky Web is still a great tactic to help vs. something like Zoroark, as it grants a lot more options to come in and kill before it gets a move off.

Zoroark's a great 'mon, but I don't think it's deserving of a ban from the tier. While a well-played Zoroark can influence a battle quite heavily, any misplay or good prediction can take it out of the equation in an instant. There's far more frustrating things in the tier than Zoroark that could be looked at, but that's just the opinion of a scrub.

 

[migzoo]

SD Zoroark is the real deal. It usually beats the best physical wall in the tier, Alomomomomolamala with ease, something that few other physical sweepers can boast:
+2 252 Atk Black Glasses Zoroark Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 273-322 (51.1 - 60.2%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

As for Illusion, there are several ways to make it more effective:

• If you're running 2+ Dark-type attacks, use BlackGlasses over Life Orb. LO recoil gives you away. Also consider Expert Belt or even sash
• Use Dark Pulse > Night Daze, obviously
• Have spin or defog support, or use teammates with the same susceptibility to hazards as Zoroark
• Have some teammates with moves commonly used by Zoro, U-turn is especially good for mindgames
• Regenerator and Wish support is helpful, to keep teammates as healthy as your still-concealed Zoro. Slowking and Amoonguss both have decent synergy with Zoro
• This isn't exclusive to Zoro, but if you're running NP/SD, you probably don't want to lead with it. Save it for mid or late game

 

[PokèManiac Livio]

Zoroark is undoubtedly the strongest offensive pokemon of the tier, maybe even too much for RU considering the characteristics of the metagame. The role that Dark typing is covering in this meta and his incredible versatility guarantees him a wonderfoul offensive power, but what really makes it broken as hell is Illusion ability wich allows it to disguise itself as one of its teammates giving it the possibility to hit hard opponent unaware pokemon or an eventual switch in also thanks hisincredible powerful movepool. I honestly think that it doesn t force 50/50 scenarios, in fact the advantage of the situation is all in the hands of Zoroark s user, since he knows who Zoroark is, while you have to scouting it, operation that(especially when there are no hazards on the field) involves many risks, risks that could cost you the game. I honestly prefer LO mixed to SD or NP set, first of all because it is perfectly suited for the role of lurer as it is (it also has fewers checks), secondly because of its low defensive stats (even an uneffective move is annoying for it) and last but not least because is more immediate; My favorite teammates are both Moltres and Hitmonlee that allow it to open large holes in the opposing defense taking adventage of its powerful stabbed Knock Off (Slowking and Doublade are for example most common switchin of them) but I also played it with Yanmega or Delphox, and he worked more than good.

The problem of countering Zoroark is that when you did, may be too late for the performance of the game. I usually run Aromatisse or Cobalion (Flamethrower sometimes is a problem) in offensive teams to check it, while in more balanced teams I prefer bulky fight typing mons, mainly Hitmontop and Gurrdurr, obviously I have to pray it doesn t run extrasensory. A possible suspect wouldn t surprise me, it is not a coincidence that is placed in S Rank.

 

[Ningildo]

Ugh, this can of worms...

Zoroark is no doubt a serious threat who takes mindgames (and the benefits thereof) to a far higher level. It really does force 50/50s every time it comes in, as bar hazard damage, you don't know it's the fox until it uses something out of the blue (as even when disguised as Cobalion/Virizion, hell even Fletch, it can mindfuck you even more by using SD). It has a myriad of sets that all can vary differently in how they play and need to be deal with (Lee can revenge most sets, provided it isn't below 50%, but loses to SD. Bulky Fighting-types can take on SD, as these rarely cover Fighting coverage wise and they can take a Dark STAB, but lose to sets carrying Extrasensory, and so on.), although actually having a unbreakable counter in Aromatisse does mitigate this to an extent. I'm really iffy on saying it's flat out broken, though, as the only things frailer then it are Pokemon like Sharpedo, which means it can NEVER directly switch in at all due the risk of fainting unless it gets in on a Psychic-type move or support move. Add in the fact that Illusion is broken the moment it gets hit at all by an attack and it can only come in after a kill or in the lead position. It does lack reliable answers outside of the Fairy, but it does have checks that can take a +2 Sucker Punch and live, such as Cobalion and Virizion. And even if lacking in counters (Fairies tho), if it gets walled, there's a good chance the opposing team can now NOT lure in what Zoroark needs to and thus, not get past common walls as the only plan on most teams is to let Zoro lure the checks in. Of course, if it keeps Illusion up, this becomes more difficult, but I'm assuming getting SR and such up is kind of a priority when seeing Zoroark, so its trolls are bound to end early if you do get it up quickly.

And I hope that people won't take a page from OU and say that the 50/50 is in Zoroark's favor, as it is a complete contradiction (both sides have an equal chance of winning (hence 50/50), so how does Zoroark have the edge?). Remember, the cost of losing the 50/50 for the Zoroark user is usually a dead fox or a crippled one, essentially losing their catch all lure and assurance of a easy win for their win condition. Don't make it sound like the Zoroark user has nothing to lose, because he does...

 

[phantom]

And I hope that people won't take a page from OU and say that the 50/50 is in Zoroark's favor, as it is a complete contradiction

It's 100% different considering the "50/50" Zoroark creates with Illusion collectively affects the entire team; until Zoroark is revealed, you have to ask yourself "is this a Zoroark or can keep I my supposed counter in on the threat in question"--your opponent has to ask no such question considering they have the information, whereas the one Aegislash induces just influences its isolated match up in the short term and gives no distinct set of information to either opponent. So yes, the "50/50" is in fact in Zoroark's favor. The cards are basically in the hands of the person who uses Zoroark, so I wouldn't even go as far as to call them "50/50s", but a ridiculous advantage that's so easy to exploit on a standalone, powerful Pokemon. One fuck up against a typical offensive team (against the SD set for instance) and it's over, and a misstep from a stall player will result in them losing the one Pokemon stopping a certain wallbreaker from steamrolling their team (ex: Slowking; Delphox).

 

[Expulso]

wow scurry buge
muh flyin resist,,,
hevy dommage

Hey everyone, I'd like to bring up a new potential suspect for discussion: Yanmega. After being exiled to BW2 early in BW RU, this mighty bug has returned for XY. Undoubtedly it is a very influential Pokemon; it is in A+ Rank, as are most of its few checks and counters. It can run two extremely viable sets; Tinted Lens and Speed Boost. The Tinted Lens set is indubitably the best wall breaker in the tier, with its counters limited to Aromatisse, Lickilicky and Registeel; it is checked by Rhyperior, Moltres and faster offensive 'mons like Zoroark. However, its checks can be bypassed with the Speed Boost set, which transforms it into a formidable sweeper that resists or is neutral to most common priority attacks, and can take them well with 86/86 defenses. However, one thing it doesn't resist is Stealth Rock, which is a huge problem for it. A crippling 50% weakness to Stealth Rocks, making it very difficult to switch it in without support. Now, onto the questions:

1) Do you believe that Yanmega is worthy of a suspect test? Why?

2) Do you believe that Yanmega's Stealth Rock weakness balances its power?

3) Is Yanmega more or less worthy of a suspect than Zoroark?

4) How have you used / played against Yanmega?

Discuss.

 

[Choice Banned]

inb4 zoro suspect

 

[Evilfaic]

1) Do you believe that Yanmega is worthy of a suspect test? Why?

2) Do you believe that Yanmega's Stealth Rock weakness balances its power?

3) Is Yanmega more or less worthy of a suspect than Zoroark?

4) How have you used / played against Yanmega?

Discuss.

1. Yes. If Yanmega runs Modest + Life Orb, it can OHKO or 2HKO most of the tier with Bug Buzz + Air Slash + Giga Drain. Yanmega can mindlessly blow through teams so easily.

2. No. If Stealth Rocks are cleared before Yanmega is sent in, Yanmega can still Sweep/Clean the opposing team just as effectively. Worst case scenario, even at 51%, Yanmega can still Sweep teams. Any sensible person running Yanmega also runs a Spinner/Defogger.

3. More worthy. Zoro has mind games and mixed offenses, but Yanmega is a much more daunting presence. If I see a Zoro in the Team Preview, I make note of it so I can attempt to see through it's disguise. If I see a Yanmega, my mentality is to get Rocks up as soon as possible and to keep a counter for it healthy.

4. I have played against Yanmega and used Yanmega. I've been swept by Yanmega a few times, but the other times it was at 50/51% health, and it was an easy kill because it was not used properly. Using Yanmega, blowing through teams is mindlessly easy.

Ban the scrub.

 

[EonX]

To answer Expulso's questions: (answers will be bolded)

1) Do you believe that Yanmega is worthy of a suspect test? Why? Yes. Yanmega has very, very few defensive checks as it stands. The Specs set is a fantastic wallbreaker, arguably the best in the entire tier, while the Speed Boost set is a great late-game cleaner.

2) Do you believe that Yanmega's Stealth Rock weakness balances its power? Not particularly imo. While the SR weakness hurts badly, all Yanmega really needs is a single switch-in to have a major influence on the battle. Its mere presence will usually force you to play much safer with your best response to it just due to the sheer threat level it represents.

3) Is Yanmega more or less worthy of a suspect than Zoroark? Less worthy atm. The thing is, you generally know what to expect from Yanmega. Zoroark is so much different in that it can run any number of sets or moves to help out what you need to bring down. Obviously, knowing what to expect from Yanmega doesn't make it any easier to counter, but Zoro's unpredictability is the trump card it has imo.

4) How have you used / played against Yanmega? I haven't used it a ton, but it's a royal pain in the ass to face. It is, quite literally, the only reason Hitmonlee ever considers running Sucker Punch, while it makes something like Registeel or Togetic a near necessity on a Stall team to keep from being steamrolled by it.

 

[aVocado]

The issue with Yanmega is that unlike other sweepers (specifically Sharpedo), it doesn't auto-lose to priority. It's got surprisingly good bulk and x4 resists Mach Punch which is pretty much the most common priority seen in teams. Even Sucker Punch won't do -that- much and the only 2 things it's weak to are Acrobatics and Ice Shard, the latter isn't seen as often and the former.. well, it's a threat and needs to be handled by other teammates lol. It's weakness to Stealth Rock is easily remedied as well, since Hitmonlee/Gligar/any defogger are mostly good Pokemon that can do more than just spin/defog and die.

It's got two very dangerous sets and the only couple Pokemon that are capable of countering the wallbreaking Tinted Lens set are Registeel, Lickilicky, and Aromatisse; all of whom are still 3HKO'd by Bug Buzz, and Yanmega can often times muscle its way through them even though that's not preferred since both Lickilicky and Registeel normally carry Knock Off and Thunder Wave respectively. If you don't have those 3 Pokemon, then Yanmega is pretty much guaranteed to 2HKO the entire team. The other set is the sweeping one and it's hell for any offensive teams to handle. It's also got Roost, which is often not seen and for good reasons as it doesn't really have time to use it and Protect is almost always better, but its there, and its a usable option. Additionally, Specs Yanmega forms a fucking scary core with CB Dugtrio if it carries U-turn, since CB Dugtrio can trap and kill most of Yanmega's typical counters:

252 Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aromatisse: 232-274 (57.1 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Registeel: 252-296 (69.2 - 81.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

and this one not so much, but it still does quite a bit:
252 Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Lickilicky: 186-219 (43.8 - 51.6%) -- 68.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery


And to answer Expulso's questions:

1) Do you believe that Yanmega is worthy of a suspect test? Why?

Yes. Reasons stated above.

2) Do you believe that Yanmega's Stealth Rock weakness balances its power?

No. Reasons also stated above.

3) Is Yanmega more or less worthy of a suspect than Zoroark?

I'd say more. Yanmega is more guaranteed to function than Zoroark, especially since it isn't easily revenge-killed by Mach Punch or dead walled by specific Pokemon.

4) How have you used / played against Yanmega?

I've used both sets to great success, and also played against both sets. There's really not much you can do to prevent Yanmega from sweeping or wallbreaking. Your best bet is setting up rocks and trying to keep them, but that can be quite difficult sometimes with an unblockable Defog.

 

[complete legitimacy]

why are we talking about yanmega when zoroark exists

 

[cacturne]

why are we talking about yanmega when zoroark exists

C_L is right though yanmega is a massive and suspect worthy pokemon zoro is a way bigger problem that needs to leave asap

 

[Pinkin Lark]

why are we talking about yanmega when zoroark exists

To answer you, I'll borrow a line from Arikado's post right above yours:

Yanmega is more guaranteed to function than Zoroark, especially since it isn't easily revenge-killed by Mach Punch or dead walled by specific Pokemon.

Rarely does a Yanmega get completely shut down in any battle. Even if it comes in on Rocks, most run Giga Drain, and will happy use it on any Rock/Ground/Water type that may come in on it, all while laughing at most every form of priority. All while Zoroark needs his mindgames, and can still be walled/killed without too much difficulty. A well played Zoroark is a massive threat, but even a decently played Yanmega can do just as much or more.

 

[cacturne]

Js shadow ball and hp fire are both options over giga drain

 

[HypnoEmpire]

I have used Yanmega a lot, so:

1) Do you believe that Yanmega is worthy of a suspect test? Why?

2) Do you believe that Yanmega's Stealth Rock weakness balances its power?

3) Is Yanmega more or less worthy of a suspect than Zoroark?

4) How have you used / played against Yanmega?

1) Yes, I definitely believe Yanmega is worthy of a suspect test. It can crush walls with Tinted Lens or sweep late-game with Speed Boost. This is problematic for stall or for HO depending on the set and because of this, it's easy to fit onto teams, at least in my experience. The best "counter" to this thing in the tier is Registeel, but due to it lacking reliable recovery, it is easy to wear down. Lickilicky can wall it, but it isn't common at all.

2) No, I don't think its Stealth Rock weakness balances its power. While Stealth Rock definitely hurts it, it usually only needs to come in once or twice to do its job anyway and there are ways to get rid of hazards.

3) Zoroark doesn't suffer from a Stealth Rock weakness, can run more sets, can disguise as something else to bait something to come in and OHKO it, can be physical, special, or mixed, it has boosting moves in Swords Dance and Nasty Plot, and it goes on. I think Zoroark is more worthy of a suspect test just because of its unpredictability. Also, I saw this several times and Hitmonlee is not a reliable counter to Zoroark. Life Orb Zoroark after a Swords Dance OHKOs Hitmonlee with Sucker Punch.

4) I typically run stall, and I have to say, Yanmega isn't that threatening when I face it. I typically run Lickilicky, and Yanmega can't really break through it unless it gets hax. The Choice Specs set is much less threatening after the Choice Specs is knocked off too, so if anything can take a hit from it, it can Knock Off its item and enable something to come in and wall it much easier. Of course, some could say this is over-centralizing. I agree.

 

[Mew2]

1) Do you believe that Yanmega is worthy of a suspect test? Why?

2) Do you believe that Yanmega's Stealth Rock weakness balances its power?

3) Is Yanmega more or less worthy of a suspect than Zoroark?

4) How have you used / played against Yanmega?

1) I think that giving Yanmega a suspect wouldn't be a bad idea because it literally 2HKOes everything on the tier unless you are Togetic or Registeel and like many people said he isn't weak to priority and has average bulk. Tinted Lens + Choice Specs is THE best wall breaker in the whole tier (fuck u Exploud) and with above average speed it can easily perform his job.

2) I don't think that SR balance Yanmega's power because; a) SR isn't on every team and if you are using SR JUST for Yanmega it screams for overcentralization. b) Spinners and defogers exist. c) Yanmega will destroy things first before SR are up and will prevent them with Specs hits

3) I think less because Zoroark has multiple sets all of them equally threatening but Yanmega has 2 or 3 viable sets also Yanmega is A+ ranked in the viability ranking thread and Zoroark is S (I tried to nominate Yanmega to S but people took me down with the x4 weak to rocks= no S rank bla bla thing) so I guess it would make more sense to suspect Zoro first.

4) I love using Yanmega especially the Choice Specs set, I guess I could talk about how I use Yanmega but I think it will be nicer if you see it with your won eyes. This match was vs King UU and Yanmega did some good work http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-141447340