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np: RU Stage 2 - Dancing Queen
- Thread starter Oglemi
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Liligant's other major issue is that horrendous coverage.
Grass STAB/HP something/Dream eater. Quiver Dance picks two of those and Sleep Powder/Aromatherapy.
Although in theory, multiple boosts + own tempo petal dance seems kind of cool
Grass STAB/HP something/Dream eater. Quiver Dance picks two of those and Sleep Powder/Aromatherapy.
Although in theory, multiple boosts + own tempo petal dance seems kind of cool
Honestly, bouffalant is one of the most reliable attackers in the tier. Mediocre coverage is mitigated by Sap Sipper, which makes it arguably the best lilligant counter ever.
Honchkrow doesn't really care about being frail, it shouldn't be taking hits unless it is sub roost which has enough HP ev's to survive weaker attacks.
I like this meta so far, it is pretty fun to play in. It seems right now some of the best play-styles are Spike Stacking and Semi Stall. Hyper Offense is great as usual too as long as you have a few checks for Sharpedo.
Speaking of Sharpedo, he is an amazing late game sweeper. Once the opponents team is weakened enough, he just sweeps right through it. The only problem with him is you can't really switch in to anything at all which means he can't afford to not KO something in one hit.
I've also been testing a few Gallade sets, what have you guys found most effective?
I love the BU Taunt Gallade set. I've been using it on my RU team.
Has anyone else noticed the complete lack of Special attackers all of a sudden? Every battle I'm seeing waves of Braviary, Sceptile, Entei, Durant, etc, etc, etc and literally the only Special attacker I can remember facing today was a single Duosion (hi Nails). Its odd because there really hasn't been anything to invalidate the utility of them. Moltres and Lilligant are still as threatening as before. I think most likely people are just excited that Sableye is gone from the tier again and not having two thirds of the tier be useless is getting exciting again. Only problem I have with it is Cryogonal is getting pretty damn useless these days :(
Eh, its still a beast regardless of whether I use haze or Toxic (sidenote: did not know Quagsire gets Haze, something I'll remember later on)
Eh, its still a beast regardless of whether I use haze or Toxic (sidenote: did not know Quagsire gets Haze, something I'll remember later on)
Actually I've been saying there is a lack of Sp. Attackers since Yanmega and Venomoth have been banned. With alakazam gone there seems to be a lack of fast special sweepsers. (Maybe i should try trick room) Accelgor, Typhlosion, Zard, and Galvantula seem to be the only viable special sweepers with base 100+ Speed and good type coverage(that are officially RU not RU AND NU). It's a little sad in my opinion so many great physical attackers and not much variation on the special side :(
Yeah, I would have to agree. While I have been having a lot of success with my most recent team, I noticed after building it that I only really have 1 special attacker. To be honest though, I rarely seem to need more than 1. Burn really hurts, but not enough to merit giving up one of my physical attackers.
That being said, my 1 is incredibly useful. I have been using Agility Porygon-Z and it has been awesome. If you can get a speed boost in it can destroy opponents. It is also a decent check to rain and opposing speed boosters. Setting up an agility on the set up mon lets you outspeed the sweeper and KO them.
That being said, my 1 is incredibly useful. I have been using Agility Porygon-Z and it has been awesome. If you can get a speed boost in it can destroy opponents. It is also a decent check to rain and opposing speed boosters. Setting up an agility on the set up mon lets you outspeed the sweeper and KO them.
for what it's worth duosion has been incredible
Duosion (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk / 4 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
If you can remember back to round 2 in OU, it's basically the same as cm reuniclus was then. The meta isn't really prepared for it right now. It has huge bulk and can set up pretty easily. 100% counter to medicham for what it's worth.
Also, Gligar + Duosion + Slowking seems like a very solid core. As far as I can tell it only loses to smashers, lilligant, and rotom-f, who all lose to munchlax or cryogonal... kind of a rambly post but I'm sorta tired.
Anyways duosion = RU version of reuniclus. It has 125 SpA so you can even pull off otr with a Life Orb if you want.
Duosion (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk / 4 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
If you can remember back to round 2 in OU, it's basically the same as cm reuniclus was then. The meta isn't really prepared for it right now. It has huge bulk and can set up pretty easily. 100% counter to medicham for what it's worth.
Also, Gligar + Duosion + Slowking seems like a very solid core. As far as I can tell it only loses to smashers, lilligant, and rotom-f, who all lose to munchlax or cryogonal... kind of a rambly post but I'm sorta tired.
Anyways duosion = RU version of reuniclus. It has 125 SpA so you can even pull off otr with a Life Orb if you want.
Duosion is great. As you said, most teams don't carry anything that can kill it without being killed in the process, and there's not too many people running any kind of phazer of hazer. The only ones I've seen used are Cryogonal, Steelix and Munchlax, and Steelix doesn't appreaciate HP fighting one bit. I think that Psyshock is worth mentioning as an alternative to Psychic for people who are afraid of things like Haze Cryogonal, however then Duosion would be walled by Sub BU Gallade.
One little nitpick though, Trickscarf Medicham isn't countered by Duosion.
The main problem I've seen it encounter is that because the metagame is fairly offensive, there's many occasions where it will have to kill something that can 2HKO it, like Honchkrow, and will be left at too little health to pose a threat in most cases afterwards. Obviously smart play and good teambuilding can deal with that, I'm just pointing out that sticking Duosion on a team and thinking it will work is not the way to go.
As far as the core goes, it looks pretty solid, but it seems to have a big Mixpedo weakness, which Munchlax would cover, as well as being a bit weak to LO Moxie Honchkrow, as it can wreck havoc if Gligar is even slightly weakened.
After countless battles with Keiran, his Sawsbuck is always as infuriating as ever. (Why to have Sludge Bomb on your Amoonguss: Part One). Whatever people say, Sap Sipper is actually better on Sawsbuck than it is on Bouffalant. In general, Saws>Bouff. The only drawback to it is that its strongest physical grass move has 75 damage (although after a Sap Sipper boost and including STAB, that doesn't matter!).
Re: Duosion, I don't see why more people don't use it in OU, let alone RU. It still has the same Special Attack and Evilite (see what I did there?) makes it possibly better than the traditional 'rank, to the extent that some people actually do praise it in OU. It's good, and the time for Duosion activism is... maybe after the stats come out.
Duosion doesn't get Focus Blast and Hidden Power [Fighting] is like a 2HKO or 3HKO on Tyranitar.
This is probably like Parahail abuse Froslass in UU, everyone hates it, its a cheap strategy, requires very small skill, and you get flamed on by your opponent whenever you win. The only difference is that some people still use Froslass, while Smashpass is gone.
I've found one thing in this tier that completely dominates; entry hazards. Think about it, I mean we have Honchkrow, Entei, Galvantula, Braviary, etc., all weak to Stealth Rock, but there's another thing, there's like 5 Pokemon that resist SR in the whole tier (that are relatively common, at least)! So pair that with a Spinblocker, spikes, Toxic Spikes, and a hard hitter like Rhydon or Medicham and you got yourself an AMAZING hyper offense team. Even though you have 3 or 2 slots for Pokemon left, simply use a Physical Attacker (Medicham) and a Special Attacker (Porygon-Z) and everything but Ferroseed (lol) will take around half when they simply switch in! Hazard abuse is quite possibly one of my favorite types of teams in this tier.
Just to chip in here, I think smashpass is only as good as the recipient you decide to pass to. RU doesn't have what OU does (or used to have) in that the recipients are both bulky and hit ridiculously hard, so even under reflect or light screen, whatever you decide to pass to isn't exactly impossible to kill like say, Garchomp was or Jirachi is.
Yeah, i've tried him and he's awesome !
He can take a lot of physical & special hit like a champ, and CM/recover back.
I've tried to build a sort of "Tabloo" for RU, but for the fact that weather teams are less common i must edit it a little. Roselia is pretty cool to setup spikes for the duosion sweep
Just going to say, if they see you have a Sawsbuck, and they can see you probably aren't running a chlorophyll team, it isn't hard to out-predict you at all. Remember, Lilligant (Like all grass types) has a great set of resistances, and with the SpD boosting nature of Quiver Dance and its great initial speed, can actually set up in front of many things without using Sleep Powder with no fear at all. Sawsbuck can come in on a Sleep Powder, but can't come in on a +1+1+1 Lilligant and expect to survive an HP fire. Then once she kills Sawsbuck, she can sleep someone else and get a second boost. I know it's a matter of prediction still, but if Sawsbuck is your main check to Lilligant, I'd say Lilligant has the upper hand in terms of prediction.
Eh, I believe Sawsbuck outspeeds Lilligant by 5 BP and I run Jolly nature.
C:
It's a shame Lilligants offensive movepool is so limited, We should call it 5th Gen Grass type syndrome :3 (Serperior anyone?) No matter what HP it has, something will be able to take it on, Grass + fire loses to Moltres usually, Grass + rock loses to Ferroseed and Grass + ice loses to pure fires types like Entei and Typhlosion, Poor Lilligant :/
EDIT: Sawsbuck can live a +1 Hidden power super effective from Lilligant
This is mostly me being curious and wondering, but isn't musharna actually a better pokemon to run a bulky setup set? Here's an idea I was toying around with:
Musharna (I have a dream that somebody will use me) @ Leftovers/Chesto Berry
252 HP/240 Def/16 Spe
Bold / Synchronize
Calm Mind
Rest
Stored Power/Psychic
Barrier/HP Fighting/Shadow Ball
Musharna hits 436/291/226 defenses and can choose to run Leftovers, compared to Duosion's 334/327/234. It doesn't have immediate reliable recovery, but the improved bulk, access to Leftovers, and Stored Power to let it hit harder after two Calm Minds is an asset to consider. 16 speed lets it outrun 4 spe Slowbro/King/Duosion, but it could be an anti-TR pokemon since it sits at base 29(!) speed, which lets it outspeed all kinds of pokemon in TR and begin setting up or countersweep.
Yeah well, Sawsbuck isn't going to KO in return. and Lilligant has serious longevity with Giga Drain.
Anyway I didn't know Double Edge was standard, w/e i guess.
A Jolly Life Orb'd Sawsbuck using double edge has a 75% (96.44% - 113.52%) to OHKO a Lilligant from full health (assuming Lilligant has only 4 HP Evs and no defence investment)
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