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Metagame NP RU Stage 4: Electric Love (Reuniclus Banned)

Discussion in 'RarelyUsed' started by atomicllamas, Aug 7, 2017.

  1. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas but then what's left of me?
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a defending SPL Champion
    RU Co-Leader

    Apr 16, 2013
    2nd Public Test

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    It has come to our attention that many in the community believe Reuniclus is deserving of a suspect test. As always, if you'd like to see some in depth reasoning as to why this Pokemon is being suspected, there are some paragraphs below written about why Reuniclus in particular was chosen. The suspect test will last 10 days and the deadline will be at 11:59 PM EST on the 17th of August, assuming the ladder is up by the end of the night.

    The reqs will be 2800 coil with a B value of 9.0, but you will need to finish reqs within 61 games. Some sample values are below. I will know if you reset your win loss, given its determined by GXE, do not attempt to game the system you will be infracted if I catch you, and I will. A GXE of 77.5 is the required minimum.

    To find out how many matches it'll take for you specifically, take your GXE, and put it into this formula


    Reuniclus Suspect Test Reasoning (open)

    Reuniclus's impressive bulk and Magic Guard allow Reuniclus to set up against several of RU's most common threats. Reuniclus's most common set is a Calm Mind variant that utilizes the power of Z-Thunder to break potential counters. Using a Z-move on Reuniclus also weakens Knock Off, making it even harder to take down. Its 125 Base Special Attack stat in addition to the aforementioned attributes makes it extremely difficult to counter without either trading an offensive Pokemon for itor possessing a dedicated hard counter such as Unaware Quagsire or Skill Swap Cresselia. Reuniclus is also essentially impossible to wear down due to the aforementioned Magic Guard, meaning it can reliably heal itself in late-game situations against weak attackers such as Mantine and Milotic. Reuniclus is also able to effectively utilize a Life Orb Trick Room set, which can be devastating for more offensively-oriented teams. Overall, Reuniclu's durability, consistency, and power make it a prime candidate for a suspect test.

    NP Song:

    tagging The Immortal for a suspect ladder

    psa: do not shit post, it will be deleted and possibly infracted
  2. Gatorboy


    Nov 19, 2015
    Reuni is def a top tier threat, and can decimate and 6-0 unprepared teams, but it never felt too overwhelming for any of my teams I've made (They not all veil, I have real teams too). We all knew this was coming, but I did not think this soon after hera. I will prob vote no ban if I have enough time to ladder.
    tenkai, teachable and Miyami~~ like this.
  3. teachable


    Sep 21, 2014
    Good choice for a next mon to suspect, Reuniclus's (currently) less commonly used sets like offensive OTR or even just changing up the move/item choices on the CM set can make it a pretty scary mon to consider/prep for.

    Not quite sure where I stand on ban/no ban, Reuniclus definitely punishes fatter AND more frail/offensive teams but with entirely different sets. Probably leaning more pro ban if I get reqs, but I'm definitely on the fence with this mon; it's kinda cute, y'know?
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
    Gorechomp and spookysocialist like this.
  4. Bisohu


    Aug 8, 2017
    This is worth suspecting btw, reuniclus can be such a menacing mon in RU. Great Bulk, great abilities, great movepoll, great recovery, good 125 base sp.attack make this pokemon a brutal wallbreaker. But honestly, I don't think it should be banned because it doesnt seem bannable at all.
  5. Natural Talent

    Natural Talent

    Aug 31, 2014
    Reuniclus is indeed a great mon in this meta. From it's amazing 125 Special attack to having great coverage and Magic Gaurd.

    Introduction of Z moves also play a good part in it's unpredictability, from Z move Thunder, Shadow Ball, Focus Blast, and a less often used but still fun signal beam.

    Not to mention CM Life Orb is destruction with it's powerful psychics even when uninvested.

    Magic Gaurd is what really tops it off and makes it amazing. Being able to set up on most walls in the tier as most can't touch it or weaken it with ailments. Free calm minds on pivots such as bronzong, gligar, Registeel and many more.

    Two of my favorite sets right now would be:

    Calm Mind (open)

    Reuniclus @ Electrium Z
    Ability: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Psychic
    - Calm Mind
    - Thunder
    - Recover

    Trick Room (open)

    Reuniclus @ Life Orb
    Ability: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Psychic
    - Focus Blast
    - Shadow Ball
    - Trick Room

    I'd say the main problem with Reuniclus is it's stability and versatility, but i don't believe for it to be broken just above average.
  6. Ice Tray

    Ice Tray

    Jun 15, 2017
    Just like Heracross, Reuniclus does have counterplay and checks to it exists such as Hoopa, Escavalier, Quagsire, Durant etc. but that doesn't automatically make it healthy for the metagame. RU being a pretty bulky tier atm with Pokemon such as Gligar, Registeel, Mantine, Chesnaught etc. give it plenty of opportunities to set up or heal up on those Pokemon without the fear of being hit with a status move thanks to Magic Guard. The limited number of checks it has in the tier can easily be covered by running Pokemon that can clear the way for Reuniclus to sweep. I've seen many people come to the conclusion that Reuniclus isn't broken just because it can't 6-0 teams on its own. Obviously it's going to be forced out if its checks are still alive but chances are you're only going to be running one or two checks to Reuniclus on the same team meaning as soon as they go down Reuni has an easier time setting up. Not to mention Reuni can predict something like Durant or Hoopa coming in and hitting them with a Thunder on the switch to wear them down a bit for the next time they want to come in. In conclusion, Reuniclus's bulk, access to reliable recovery, an ability that prevents it from getting worn down by status, hazards, and Leech Seed, combined with the appropriate team support is a bit overwhelming for the metagame in my opinion and harder to deal with than Heracross was. If I do end up getting reqs I'll most likely be voting ban.
  7. Heracross2.0


    Jul 14, 2017
    Reuniclus is very unpredictable. One time, it might use Psychic 3 times in a row. You know it has Choice Spec, so you switch to a Dark Type. The Reuniclus doesn't switch out. Instead, it uses Focus Blast. It's also very annoying to teams trying to set up into one specific Pokémon. Its abilities can range from slightly annoying/ helpful (Overcoat) to impeding the progress of the other team (Magic Guard). Definitely deserves a ban.
    Gorechomp, teachable, MrAldo and 2 others like this.
  8. Umbra Soul

    Umbra Soul

    Jan 16, 2012
    This isn't a very surprising suspect to see, but kind of surprised it's the next one after Hera. I'm actually pretty mixed on Reuniclus, and probably won't bother laddering for reqs this time around, but if I can add on an early part of the discussion I'll do so.

    What Reuniclus brings to the table is the ability to threaten passive playstyles or people using sub-optimal offensive Pokemon, which isn't a bad thing, it is something teams have to take into account when building that you can't expect to win with a bunch of bulky Pokemon who spam hazards / toxic and call it a day as it avoids damage with Magic Guard and it's super fat with that 110 base HP with respectable 75/85 defenses.

    Given the affinity for a lot of defensive pivots the tier currently has, the blob has a lot of set up opportunities to invoke damage against opposing teams with the Calm Mind set which means that teams usually have to rely on having soft checks or making sure they can generate enough offensive pressure that Reuniclus doesn't have any breathing room beyond coming in and setting up one CM or recovering off damage, however I do also think the tier has enough powerful Pokemon that against certain balance and offensive builds Reuniclus can be marginally dealt with as unboosted it can take a lot of damage from special attacks, and it's damage output in general can be lackluster giving Pokemon who can at least take a 0 or +1 hit the ability to inflict some serious damage on the blob before either dying or forcing it out into a reserve spot for when it can take advantage of an opposing pivot again.

    I'm not really a big fan of the OTR set, I always seem to have a hard time finding a way to build a team that compliments the set, and it's not like you can just slap it on a team like you can the bulky CM set that just absorbs every hit. I know it is very powerful in general, and it can give teams trouble, but I always find it hard to set up a TR and then sweep the opponent as there are various Pokemon that can tank a hit and just do some great damage right back at you, not to mention I really dislike having to rely on focus miss for Dark types especially when Umbreon is a factor and it can waste out TR turns with Protect and Wish healing.

    I think what might be the straw that breaks the camels back on Reuniclus for some people is that with a Z-Crystal Knock Off does significantly less damage to Reuniclus, and you aren't hampering it in any way by removing it's item. It gives it a lot more durability to tank hits even from Super Effective or STAB KO users to at least be able to kill them with a Z-Move and the possibility of retreating out to take advantage of said bulky pivots the tier likes later on to recover if need be on them.

    Also on the topic of having to use Skill Swap Cress to remove it's immunity to Toxic. Fun thing I learned because I didn't know Toxic and losing Magic Guard worked like this, but you take all the accumulated Toxic damage you were supposed to receive at once. So if you are out there for 6 turns with Toxic on you, and then they skill swap you on the 7th, you take 7 turns worth of accumulated Toxic damage. I actually thought it'd start with turn 1 damage, but lol nope, full on everything at once. Fun stuff Pokemon mechanics right?

    Anyway I'm entirely mixed on the blob, it's head and shoulders above the other psychics we have due to status immunity, a great way to keep passive styles in check especially since its match up against offensive based teams isn't all that great. Knock Off power being reduced by Z-Crystals as well as Reuniclus' ability to stay healthier over the course of a match than threats you can threaten it with might be a breaking point for many, so I wouldn't actually be sad to see the blob go as it could in fact lean to a somewhat healthier meta, but I'm not sure that would be for the best at this junction in the tier. It serves as a pretty stable pokemon who can be overwhelming once it gets going, but can be managed with enough offensive pressure.
    therealslap and Gatorboy like this.
  9. littlelachyjn


    Feb 15, 2016
    I personally don't think Reuniclus is deserving of a ban while it is indeed a top tier threat in the RU tier and does come in and set up on a lot of the tier since RU has become a very bulky and passive tier I feel Reuniclus has to many offesive checks to make it broken

    If it has yet to set up special life orb Sharpdedos dark pulse straight up OHKOs most builds and the few it doesn't gets OHKOd by physical life orb Sharpedos crunch along with that extremely prominent mons like banded Beware do 70+% to Reuniclus making it an easy revenge kill for whatever comes in next as well as being checked by things like life orb Hoopa so long as it isn't TRO and if it is mons like Pangoro and other knock off users make quick work of it especially since it has to land focus blast to deal with the extremely common dark types

    Even on the defensive side of the spectrum things like curse lax boost up along side it win the 1v1 then sweep the entire team as well as mons like sturdy Steelix or av/sp def Rhyperior can phase it out with dragon tail/roar on top of that things like Quagsire can quiet easily 1v1 Reuniclus

    Quiet honestly I believe RU needs Reuniclus to prevent almost entirely brain dead stall from ruling RU as the meta has shifted twords a bulky defensive/stally meta game and sure while there are checks to stall like lum sd Pangoro stall has more than enough tools to adapt to all of it's checks outside of Reuniclus so I'm most definitely voting not ban on Reuniclus so that a genuinely fun and all around fairly balanced tier doesn't become a second OU where in the hands of a semi decent player stall becomes unbeatable and offense/balance become the "I know I'm going to get bodied but it's fun to use" playstyles
    tenkai, BOUFF, Gatorboy and 1 other person like this.
  10. phantom

    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Mar 3, 2013
    While Reuniclus' ability to exploit defensive Pokemon is most definitely a factor in why it's suspect worthy, Reuniclus isn't being suspected because of its matchup against stall. Stall uses the few specific checks Reuniclus has, unlike balance and bulky offense which can't afford to run those same extremely passive Pokemon and are stuck scrambling trying to KO it and not lose something in the process. This means that stall teams cover Reuniclus the best. So no, banning it won't result in "brain dead stall" because Reuniclus isn't even one of the Pokemon that's holding those teams down in the first place.

    Reuniclus is exceedingly difficult to KO after a single boost not just because of its raw bulk, but because its Z move weakens Knock Off, which means few Pokemon in the tier can actually KO it after a CM. Getting a CM on Reuniclus is also extremely easy given the number of passive Pokemon it's capable of forcing out: Registeel, Mantine, Non-Taunt Gligar, Gigalith, Chesnaught, Porygon2, etc. Because it's so difficult to KO, it nearly guarantees a kill against non-stall teams after a boost. It can survive some of strongest super effective hits and proceed to KO all of the users back with +1 Z Thunder.

    252+ Atk Life Orb Zoroark Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 226-268 (53.3 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Pangoro Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 294-348 (69.3 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Reuniclus: 342-404 (80.6 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 307-361 (72.4 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Note that only one of these Pokemon can actually switch in. Unless you're facing hyper offense or full stall, it's really difficult to prevent Reuniclus from trading a one-for-one at the very least. Even then, Reuniclus can come out on a majority of these matchups and find the opportunity to recover on something passive like Mantine or Porygon2. While offensive pressure alone isn't the only way for non-stall teams to check it, a lot of people tend to assume that Reuniclus has more checks than it actually does because they're stuck using mediocre sets. Swapping out Psyshock for Psychic loses next to nothing, but allows Reuniclus to significantly pressure Taunt Gligar, Quagsire, and Megahorn Rhyperior, making it difficult for them to even check it or outlast it in Rhyperior's case.

    +1 0 SpA Reuniclus Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Gligar: 166-196 (49.7 - 58.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO --> straight up loses upon switch-in unless running Specially Defensive Taunt, where it's still forced to recover every other turn and make itself vulnerable to crits and SpD drops
    0 SpA Reuniclus Psychic vs. 248 HP / 244 SpD Rhyperior: 135-159 (31.1 - 36.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery --> can switch in twice max before losing to a boosted Reuniclus and that's assuming Reuniclus is the only mon it takes damage from
    0 SpA Reuniclus Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Unaware Quagsire: 166-196 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery --> has to spend its time recovering, while still being vulnerable to SpD drops and crits; it also can't kill Reuniclus since using Curse makes it more susceptible to drops/crits

    Of the few Pokemon that can hold Reuniclus off, Taunt Umbreon, Skill Swap Cresselia, Escavalier, because so few of them exist, it makes it even more difficult to stop Reuniclus since it's so easy to support with Gigalith gimping Umbreon/Cresselia's recovery and Spikes Chesnaught wearing down Escavalier. I don't think there are many sufficient checks to Reuniclus, and the few that there are face an uphill battle against the teams you'd most commonly see Reuniclus on. Reuniclus should be banned; it's just too easy to support and a little too hard to counter.
  11. MrAldo

    MrAldo (llsshock)
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Apr 18, 2014
    It seems phantom aka Spirit pretty much covered what I wanted to say really, but to summarize the main points:

    - There will not be a brainless rise on stall cause stall is like the only playstyle that can reliably keep it at bay without over committing thanks to tailor made checks. Other playstyles need to really aware since it can easily trade off with an offensive check and then on a defensive Pokemon fairly easily throughout the match.

    - A single CM boost is enough to make all these offensive checks non checks anymore, so you lose a sharpedo (any variant) that you could have used for cleaning late game due to over committing in killing reuniclus.

    - Very few reliable stops in general, only Escavalier is consistently reliable cause stuff like Umbreon and Cresselia have more optimal options to run.

    - Easily adaptable to what the metagame has to cover, and the CM set alone is consistent enough to manhandle most of the meta.

    So yeah, the option of the Z-Move really sends Reuniclus over the edge, without them it could have probably been fine (still a little too much mind you, but powered up knock offs could have been a play).
    Arifeen, SilentVerse, Cheryl. and 6 others like this.
  12. -Tsunami-

    -Tsunami- VoD Leader Metabeast
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Championis the 2nd Smogon Classic Winneris a defending World Cup of Pokemon champion
    RU Co-Leader

    Feb 27, 2009

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