NP RU Stage 4: Electric Love (Reuniclus, Mega Absol, and Zygarde-10% Banned)

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atomicllamas

but then what's left of me?
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RU Co-Leader
#1
2nd Public Test



It has come to our attention that many in the community believe Reuniclus is deserving of a suspect test. As always, if you'd like to see some in depth reasoning as to why this Pokemon is being suspected, there are some paragraphs below written about why Reuniclus in particular was chosen. The suspect test will last 10 days and the deadline will be at 11:59 PM EST on the 17th of August, assuming the ladder is up by the end of the night.

The reqs will be 2800 coil with a B value of 9.0, but you will need to finish reqs within 61 games. Some sample values are below. I will know if you reset your win loss, given its determined by GXE, do not attempt to game the system you will be infracted if I catch you, and I will. A GXE of 77.5 is the required minimum.

To find out how many matches it'll take for you specifically, take your GXE, and put it into this formula

9.0/log2(40*GXE/2800)

Reuniclus's impressive bulk and Magic Guard allow Reuniclus to set up against several of RU's most common threats. Reuniclus's most common set is a Calm Mind variant that utilizes the power of Z-Thunder to break potential counters. Using a Z-move on Reuniclus also weakens Knock Off, making it even harder to take down. Its 125 Base Special Attack stat in addition to the aforementioned attributes makes it extremely difficult to counter without either trading an offensive Pokemon for itor possessing a dedicated hard counter such as Unaware Quagsire or Skill Swap Cresselia. Reuniclus is also essentially impossible to wear down due to the aforementioned Magic Guard, meaning it can reliably heal itself in late-game situations against weak attackers such as Mantine and Milotic. Reuniclus is also able to effectively utilize a Life Orb Trick Room set, which can be devastating for more offensively-oriented teams. Overall, Reuniclu's durability, consistency, and power make it a prime candidate for a suspect test.


NP Song:


tagging The Immortal for a suspect ladder

psa: do not shit post, it will be deleted and possibly infracted
 
#2
Reuni is def a top tier threat, and can decimate and 6-0 unprepared teams, but it never felt too overwhelming for any of my teams I've made (They not all veil, I have real teams too). We all knew this was coming, but I did not think this soon after hera. I will prob vote no ban if I have enough time to ladder.
 
#3
Good choice for a next mon to suspect, Reuniclus's (currently) less commonly used sets like offensive OTR or even just changing up the move/item choices on the CM set can make it a pretty scary mon to consider/prep for.

Not quite sure where I stand on ban/no ban, Reuniclus definitely punishes fatter AND more frail/offensive teams but with entirely different sets. Probably leaning more pro ban if I get reqs, but I'm definitely on the fence with this mon; it's kinda cute, y'know?
 
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#4
This is worth suspecting btw, reuniclus can be such a menacing mon in RU. Great Bulk, great abilities, great movepoll, great recovery, good 125 base sp.attack make this pokemon a brutal wallbreaker. But honestly, I don't think it should be banned because it doesnt seem bannable at all.
 

Natural Talent

Don't die trying to live..
is a Tiering Contributor
#5
Reuniclus is indeed a great mon in this meta. From it's amazing 125 Special attack to having great coverage and Magic Gaurd.

Introduction of Z moves also play a good part in it's unpredictability, from Z move Thunder, Shadow Ball, Focus Blast, and a less often used but still fun signal beam.

Not to mention CM Life Orb is destruction with it's powerful psychics even when uninvested.

Magic Gaurd is what really tops it off and makes it amazing. Being able to set up on most walls in the tier as most can't touch it or weaken it with ailments. Free calm minds on pivots such as bronzong, gligar, Registeel and many more.

Two of my favorite sets right now would be:

Reuniclus @ Electrium Z
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Calm Mind
- Thunder
- Recover


Reuniclus @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Trick Room


I'd say the main problem with Reuniclus is it's stability and versatility, but i don't believe for it to be broken just above average.
 
#6
Just like Heracross, Reuniclus does have counterplay and checks to it exists such as Hoopa, Escavalier, Quagsire, Durant etc. but that doesn't automatically make it healthy for the metagame. RU being a pretty bulky tier atm with Pokemon such as Gligar, Registeel, Mantine, Chesnaught etc. give it plenty of opportunities to set up or heal up on those Pokemon without the fear of being hit with a status move thanks to Magic Guard. The limited number of checks it has in the tier can easily be covered by running Pokemon that can clear the way for Reuniclus to sweep. I've seen many people come to the conclusion that Reuniclus isn't broken just because it can't 6-0 teams on its own. Obviously it's going to be forced out if its checks are still alive but chances are you're only going to be running one or two checks to Reuniclus on the same team meaning as soon as they go down Reuni has an easier time setting up. Not to mention Reuni can predict something like Durant or Hoopa coming in and hitting them with a Thunder on the switch to wear them down a bit for the next time they want to come in. In conclusion, Reuniclus's bulk, access to reliable recovery, an ability that prevents it from getting worn down by status, hazards, and Leech Seed, combined with the appropriate team support is a bit overwhelming for the metagame in my opinion and harder to deal with than Heracross was. If I do end up getting reqs I'll most likely be voting ban.
 
#7
Reuniclus is very unpredictable. One time, it might use Psychic 3 times in a row. You know it has Choice Spec, so you switch to a Dark Type. The Reuniclus doesn't switch out. Instead, it uses Focus Blast. It's also very annoying to teams trying to set up into one specific Pokémon. Its abilities can range from slightly annoying/ helpful (Overcoat) to impeding the progress of the other team (Magic Guard). Definitely deserves a ban.
 
#8
This isn't a very surprising suspect to see, but kind of surprised it's the next one after Hera. I'm actually pretty mixed on Reuniclus, and probably won't bother laddering for reqs this time around, but if I can add on an early part of the discussion I'll do so.

What Reuniclus brings to the table is the ability to threaten passive playstyles or people using sub-optimal offensive Pokemon, which isn't a bad thing, it is something teams have to take into account when building that you can't expect to win with a bunch of bulky Pokemon who spam hazards / toxic and call it a day as it avoids damage with Magic Guard and it's super fat with that 110 base HP with respectable 75/85 defenses.

Given the affinity for a lot of defensive pivots the tier currently has, the blob has a lot of set up opportunities to invoke damage against opposing teams with the Calm Mind set which means that teams usually have to rely on having soft checks or making sure they can generate enough offensive pressure that Reuniclus doesn't have any breathing room beyond coming in and setting up one CM or recovering off damage, however I do also think the tier has enough powerful Pokemon that against certain balance and offensive builds Reuniclus can be marginally dealt with as unboosted it can take a lot of damage from special attacks, and it's damage output in general can be lackluster giving Pokemon who can at least take a 0 or +1 hit the ability to inflict some serious damage on the blob before either dying or forcing it out into a reserve spot for when it can take advantage of an opposing pivot again.

I'm not really a big fan of the OTR set, I always seem to have a hard time finding a way to build a team that compliments the set, and it's not like you can just slap it on a team like you can the bulky CM set that just absorbs every hit. I know it is very powerful in general, and it can give teams trouble, but I always find it hard to set up a TR and then sweep the opponent as there are various Pokemon that can tank a hit and just do some great damage right back at you, not to mention I really dislike having to rely on focus miss for Dark types especially when Umbreon is a factor and it can waste out TR turns with Protect and Wish healing.

I think what might be the straw that breaks the camels back on Reuniclus for some people is that with a Z-Crystal Knock Off does significantly less damage to Reuniclus, and you aren't hampering it in any way by removing it's item. It gives it a lot more durability to tank hits even from Super Effective or STAB KO users to at least be able to kill them with a Z-Move and the possibility of retreating out to take advantage of said bulky pivots the tier likes later on to recover if need be on them.

Also on the topic of having to use Skill Swap Cress to remove it's immunity to Toxic. Fun thing I learned because I didn't know Toxic and losing Magic Guard worked like this, but you take all the accumulated Toxic damage you were supposed to receive at once. So if you are out there for 6 turns with Toxic on you, and then they skill swap you on the 7th, you take 7 turns worth of accumulated Toxic damage. I actually thought it'd start with turn 1 damage, but lol nope, full on everything at once. Fun stuff Pokemon mechanics right?

Anyway I'm entirely mixed on the blob, it's head and shoulders above the other psychics we have due to status immunity, a great way to keep passive styles in check especially since its match up against offensive based teams isn't all that great. Knock Off power being reduced by Z-Crystals as well as Reuniclus' ability to stay healthier over the course of a match than threats you can threaten it with might be a breaking point for many, so I wouldn't actually be sad to see the blob go as it could in fact lean to a somewhat healthier meta, but I'm not sure that would be for the best at this junction in the tier. It serves as a pretty stable pokemon who can be overwhelming once it gets going, but can be managed with enough offensive pressure.
 
#9
I personally don't think Reuniclus is deserving of a ban while it is indeed a top tier threat in the RU tier and does come in and set up on a lot of the tier since RU has become a very bulky and passive tier I feel Reuniclus has to many offesive checks to make it broken

If it has yet to set up special life orb Sharpdedos dark pulse straight up OHKOs most builds and the few it doesn't gets OHKOd by physical life orb Sharpedos crunch along with that extremely prominent mons like banded Beware do 70+% to Reuniclus making it an easy revenge kill for whatever comes in next as well as being checked by things like life orb Hoopa so long as it isn't TRO and if it is mons like Pangoro and other knock off users make quick work of it especially since it has to land focus blast to deal with the extremely common dark types

Even on the defensive side of the spectrum things like curse lax boost up along side it win the 1v1 then sweep the entire team as well as mons like sturdy Steelix or av/sp def Rhyperior can phase it out with dragon tail/roar on top of that things like Quagsire can quiet easily 1v1 Reuniclus

Quiet honestly I believe RU needs Reuniclus to prevent almost entirely brain dead stall from ruling RU as the meta has shifted twords a bulky defensive/stally meta game and sure while there are checks to stall like lum sd Pangoro stall has more than enough tools to adapt to all of it's checks outside of Reuniclus so I'm most definitely voting not ban on Reuniclus so that a genuinely fun and all around fairly balanced tier doesn't become a second OU where in the hands of a semi decent player stall becomes unbeatable and offense/balance become the "I know I'm going to get bodied but it's fun to use" playstyles
 

phantom

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RU Co-Leader
#10
While Reuniclus' ability to exploit defensive Pokemon is most definitely a factor in why it's suspect worthy, Reuniclus isn't being suspected because of its matchup against stall. Stall uses the few specific checks Reuniclus has, unlike balance and bulky offense which can't afford to run those same extremely passive Pokemon and are stuck scrambling trying to KO it and not lose something in the process. This means that stall teams cover Reuniclus the best. So no, banning it won't result in "brain dead stall" because Reuniclus isn't even one of the Pokemon that's holding those teams down in the first place.

Reuniclus is exceedingly difficult to KO after a single boost not just because of its raw bulk, but because its Z move weakens Knock Off, which means few Pokemon in the tier can actually KO it after a CM. Getting a CM on Reuniclus is also extremely easy given the number of passive Pokemon it's capable of forcing out: Registeel, Mantine, Non-Taunt Gligar, Gigalith, Chesnaught, Porygon2, etc. Because it's so difficult to KO, it nearly guarantees a kill against non-stall teams after a boost. It can survive some of strongest super effective hits and proceed to KO all of the users back with +1 Z Thunder.

252+ Atk Life Orb Zoroark Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 226-268 (53.3 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Pangoro Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 294-348 (69.3 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Reuniclus: 342-404 (80.6 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 307-361 (72.4 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Note that only one of these Pokemon can actually switch in. Unless you're facing hyper offense or full stall, it's really difficult to prevent Reuniclus from trading a one-for-one at the very least. Even then, Reuniclus can come out on a majority of these matchups and find the opportunity to recover on something passive like Mantine or Porygon2. While offensive pressure alone isn't the only way for non-stall teams to check it, a lot of people tend to assume that Reuniclus has more checks than it actually does because they're stuck using mediocre sets. Swapping out Psyshock for Psychic loses next to nothing, but allows Reuniclus to significantly pressure Taunt Gligar, Quagsire, and Megahorn Rhyperior, making it difficult for them to even check it or outlast it in Rhyperior's case.

+1 0 SpA Reuniclus Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Gligar: 166-196 (49.7 - 58.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO --> straight up loses upon switch-in unless running Specially Defensive Taunt, where it's still forced to recover every other turn and make itself vulnerable to crits and SpD drops
0 SpA Reuniclus Psychic vs. 248 HP / 244 SpD Rhyperior: 135-159 (31.1 - 36.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery --> can switch in twice max before losing to a boosted Reuniclus and that's assuming Reuniclus is the only mon it takes damage from
0 SpA Reuniclus Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Unaware Quagsire: 166-196 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery --> has to spend its time recovering, while still being vulnerable to SpD drops and crits; it also can't kill Reuniclus since using Curse makes it more susceptible to drops/crits

Of the few Pokemon that can hold Reuniclus off, Taunt Umbreon, Skill Swap Cresselia, Escavalier, because so few of them exist, it makes it even more difficult to stop Reuniclus since it's so easy to support with Gigalith gimping Umbreon/Cresselia's recovery and Spikes Chesnaught wearing down Escavalier. I don't think there are many sufficient checks to Reuniclus, and the few that there are face an uphill battle against the teams you'd most commonly see Reuniclus on. Reuniclus should be banned; it's just too easy to support and a little too hard to counter.
 

MrAldo

Bird Enthusiast
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Moderator
#11
It seems phantom aka Spirit pretty much covered what I wanted to say really, but to summarize the main points:

- There will not be a brainless rise on stall cause stall is like the only playstyle that can reliably keep it at bay without over committing thanks to tailor made checks. Other playstyles need to really aware since it can easily trade off with an offensive check and then on a defensive Pokemon fairly easily throughout the match.

- A single CM boost is enough to make all these offensive checks non checks anymore, so you lose a sharpedo (any variant) that you could have used for cleaning late game due to over committing in killing reuniclus.

- Very few reliable stops in general, only Escavalier is consistently reliable cause stuff like Umbreon and Cresselia have more optimal options to run.

- Easily adaptable to what the metagame has to cover, and the CM set alone is consistent enough to manhandle most of the meta.

So yeah, the option of the Z-Move really sends Reuniclus over the edge, without them it could have probably been fine (still a little too much mind you, but powered up knock offs could have been a play).
 
#13
After a moment of silence was justly respected for the cutest and strongest blob, I feel obliged to post a rant about a mon so obviously broken GF couldn't conceive of making it a complete mon. I am of course talking about:



That stupid thing.

Sharpedo was rightly given the Banhammer in ORAS RU, as it was deemed way too strong for offence to deal with, having to resort to Hitmonlee and Gurdurr - the latter actually rising from NU almost solely for this very reason, a rare feat in this tier - to check its monstrous cleaning abilities. You would almost always see a LO mixed set, with Ice Beam as regular coverage, but it was obviously enough to be highly unhealthy for the tier.

But quite frankly, SM RU does even worse in terms of offensive checks to it. Offensive checks to it are ridiculously few, as both Gurdurr and Hitmonlee are nowhere near to be seen and would be the only really viable Mach Punch users. I tried Gurdurr myself, wouldn't particularly recommend. Following that you have two special mons with effective priority in Toxicroak and Comfey. Special Toxicroak is a largely underwhelming mon by most standards, and Comfey relies too much on a weak mono-attacking set that leaves it open to several Sharpedo partners. Oddly enough, while testing a lot with other RU players, the best Sharpedo stop on offensively inclined teams seems to be... an healthier Sharpedo. I can't count the number of games that were decided by which Sharpedo could tank the other's attacks, which in itself is a situation I find hilarious. I've even seen Z-move Sharpedo help a lot in this situation, as it's a roll in your favour to beat Sharpedo from full. It's a cool tech with some neat usage that is almost essentially used to not lose to Sharpedo.

Beyond the offensive checks though, this tier has the unfortunate issue of having next to no reliable defensive checks to it. Two major reasons explain this in my opinion. The first is the significant advantage hazard setters have over removers this gen. You look at Registeel pretty much soloing all of them, or Chesnaught taunting defoggers and crippling spinners with residual, or Roserade and Dragalge being such amazing offensive threats that having your own answers to them can often take precedent over removing hazards. Virtually any of the best setters have great synergy with Sharpedo, and most of its traditional answers are grounded and can't take tspikes bar bulky Dragalge. The second reason, and bulky Dragalge is a nice segway to it, is that switchins that can take a hit are almost always vulnerable to coverage. I am not including hax into this, so answers like Umbreon or Registeel or Porygon2, while weak to hazard stack, still work, although they might be the only ones. For example, look at Kushalos against Arifeen in RU gens playoffs:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ru-304724

Arifeen's team actually has two answers to most Sharpedos running around in Bewear and Shaymin. You could even count Doublade as it takes a Crunch relatively well. But Kushalos bringing the special set and managing to put tspikes up turn two meant that Arifeen could pretty much never win that game. If he brought, say, Dragalge and Cress, he would have had two strong ways of checking that set, but they both hard lose to Physical after some residual damage. This isn't just that game, anyone who has taken interest in this Open can testify to Sharpedo's ability to finish games and get past conventional checks like Scarf Shaymin or Chesnaught or Bewear.

In my mind the choices you have to make in teambuilding while prepping for Shark are way too oppressive for this tier, far worse than even Heracross or Reuniclus were, and compound on a crucial weakness of this tier - the removal options - by including a cleaner with non stop speed boosting and almost flawless coverage. This essentially makes hazards stack an even more overbearing presence than it should be since it gives it a cleaner with no real flaws past its vulnerability to opposite Sharpedo stack.
 
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#14
Drops:

Banette-Mega moved from UU to RU
Tornadus moved from UU to RU
Abomasnow-Mega moved from UU to RU
Decidueye moved from UU to RU
Absol-Mega moved from UU to RU
Camerupt-Mega moved from UU to RU
Nidoqueen moved from UU to RU
Tsareena moved from UU to RU
Zygarde-10% moved from UU to RU

Rises:

Mantine moved from RU to UU

So we gained a bunch of stuff and lost Mantine.
 
#15
Drops:

Banette-Mega moved from UU to RU
Tornadus moved from UU to RU
Abomasnow-Mega moved from UU to RU
Decidueye moved from UU to RU
Absol-Mega moved from UU to RU
Camerupt-Mega moved from UU to RU
Nidoqueen moved from UU to RU
Tsareena moved from UU to RU
Zygarde-10% moved from UU to RU

Rises:

Mantine moved from RU to UU

So we gained a bunch of stuff and lost Mantine.
Quick note that Tornadus is BL2 so it won't be RU barring an extremely unlikely unban.
 

-Tsunami-

Lonely Feather
is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Championis the 2nd Smogon Classic Winneris a defending World Cup of Pokemon champion
#16
The RU council has decided to Quick Ban both Mega Absol and Zygarde-10%, otherwise known as Zydog(e). With RU Open Round 7 coming up in the very near future, and snake draft Phase 1 a week away, we decided it was best to banish these behemoths as soon as possible. Do not fear, though, as Zygarde-10% will be retested shortly. This will be a public test, based on the precedent in existence at this time. Mega Absol has been deemed to be way too unhealthy for our current metagame, so there are no plans to retest it at this point, although this could potentially change I suppose.

Mega Absol:

Ban: -Tsunami-, atomicllamas, Ajna, Arifeen, col49, Flaming Victini, MrAldo, phantom
No Ban: DTC

Zygarde-10%:

Ban: -Tsunami-, atomicllamas, Ajna, Arifeen, col49, Flaming Victini, MrAldo
No Ban: DTC, phantom

Kushalos please vote as soon as possible so I can your vote to this post.

Anyway, enjoy the other drops, like everyone's favorite queen.
ALSO, goodbye Mantine. You will be missed.

 

avocado

queen vados
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#17
Why the fuck did we ban zydog? like I understand mega absol, we had it before and it was extremely broken and probably still is, but zydog we never had before and doesn't even come close to sounding broken on paper so banning it so early (literally less than 2 hours after drops) is extremely pointless and unnecessary... at least let us play with the new mons :/

I don't even agree with banning mabsol so early but it at least makes the tiniest bit of sense, but zydog..

For the tournaments, just have them banned there, keep them in ladder... tournaments should never affect bans honestly. even if just for a week, its the definition of unnecessary.
 
#18
I'm completely against banning Zydog this early. You could make a case for Mega Absol since it was broken in Alpha, but seriously, what's the point of banning Zydog just to retest it in a few days? It seems so pointless.

If you really wanted a public test, it should've been Sharpedo, it was broken before and just got a lot of new stuff it beats...
 

-Tsunami-

Lonely Feather
is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Championis the 2nd Smogon Classic Winneris a defending World Cup of Pokemon champion
#21
Why the fuck did we ban zydog? like I understand mega absol, we had it before and it was extremely broken and probably still is, but zydog we never had before and doesn't even come close to sounding broken on paper so banning it so early (literally less than 2 hours after drops) is extremely pointless and unnecessary... at least let us play with the new mons :/

I don't even agree with banning mabsol so early but it at least makes the tiniest bit of sense, but zydog..

For the tournaments, just have them banned there, keep them in ladder... tournaments should never affect bans honestly. even if just for a week, its the definition of unnecessary.
I'm completely against banning Zydog this early. You could make a case for Mega Absol since it was broken in Alpha, but seriously, what's the point of banning Zydog just to retest it in a few days? It seems so pointless.

If you really wanted a public test, it should've been Sharpedo, it was broken before and just got a lot of new stuff it beats...
Clearly, the majority of the council felt that Zygarde-10% was worthy of a quickban. It's fine to disagree with the views of the council, but to act as if there's no basis for this is ridiculous. Even if we did not ban it, it would surely be suspected tested almost immediately because, once again, the majority of the council thinks that it is a problematic Pokemon in the current metagame. This is enough justification for this decision.

For the tournaments, just have them banned there, keep them in ladder... tournaments should never affect bans honestly. even if just for a week, its the definition of unnecessary.
OK. Clearly, you do not understand how Smogon tournaments work. We can't just walk up to the Tournament Directors and be like "OMG GUYS CAN U NOT ALLOW ZYGARDE-10% AND MEGA ABSOL FOR THIS ROUND. WE KIND OF DON'T WANT THEM TO BE IN THE TOURNAMENT, BUT WE ALSO DON'T WANT TO BAN THEM. SAVE US PLEASE"
In the latest edition of the World Cup, when a Pokemon was released, it was immediately allowed the following round. The last time anything remotely like this occurred was when Hoopa-Unbound was released during the semifinals of WCOP 2015. In this situation, all four teams agreed on not using Hoopa-U, and as such, it was banned for the round. This is much more feasible in a team tournament where OU is the main generation (with 4 teams left) than it is in a Snake Draft Tournament where only one or two people per team even know anything about RU. Not to mention, if even one person left in the 7th Round of the RU Open wanted to use Zygarde-10%, it would have to be allowed.

I hope this sheds some light on the actions we have taken. As an avid tournament player, tournaments, in my opinion, are the heart and soul of this site. I want to make tiering decisions that allow for the highest competition possible in our tournaments, and I feel as though banning these two Pokemon is the best course of action at this time. As I said before, Zygarde-10% will be retested very soon, so the community has the ability to reverse this decision if they so please. However, as of now, the majority of the council has decided that both of these Pokemon are unhealthy for the metagame at this time.
 

atomicllamas

but then what's left of me?
is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
RU Co-Leader
#22
1) Tournament metas reflect the meta game at the time of the rounds posting, this is the way tournaments are run, otherwise it wouldn't be RU Open round 7, it would be "Meta that vaguely resembles RU Open Round 7". This:
For the tournaments, just have them banned there, keep them in ladder... tournaments should never affect bans honestly. even if just for a week, its the definition of unnecessary.
is nonsense.
I'm a little shocked that a tournament contributed to the ban decision; typically doesn't legality not change until the round after a drop/ban happens?
Correct, and round 7 is to be posted tonight, after these changes take affect.

2) The amount of time Zydoge won't be on the ladder, that it would have been on the ladder, is equivalent to the difference between PS hotpatching in the changes and us getting the suspect OP up. Zygarde-10% is being introduced to the tier as a suspect, thus allowing it to not be in tournaments but allowing it to be used on the ladder. If its balanced it will be usable the entire time, if it is unbalanced you'll have 10+ days to play with it before it gets banned.

Mega Absol has been in RU, this is essentially a repeat of the Suicune ban except this time there was more time between alpha and the shift, but was a council vote (as opposed to just me). I'm sorry if you wanted a chance to play with Mega Absol, I get it, playing with new broken things is fun, but the goal of tiering is to create a balanced tier for competitive purposes (tournaments, ladder), and Mega Absol is clearly not balanced.

3)
If you really wanted a public test, it should've been Sharpedo, it was broken before and just got a lot of new stuff it beats...
Realistically given the shifts there would have been at least a week before a suspect test started, now if it is determined that Sharpedo is an issue after the Zygarde-10% results are in, then it can be suspected at that point, which would be in 2 weeks, so that change is pretty negligible.

I'm sorry some people are upset with the way that this was handled, perhaps we could have communicated more effectively, but shake and I did this to try and balance out the interests of allowing as many pokemon in the tier as possible with having a tier that is playable for official representation in tournaments.

Further posts complaining about this decision will be deleted, feel free to bitch in the discord instead, I'd prefer this thread was used for discussing the new drops and their impact on the meta. Expect the OP for the Zygarde-10% suspect either tonight or tomorrow night.
 
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