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Yeah Durant is a very good poke, and i am seeing him more often these days. He has some hard counters but if you manage to weaken them he can easily sweep late game, since he does't particulary care about priority.
I have even seen a CB Durant which totally destroyed my slow stallish team with just X-Scissor. Yeah i was stupid enough to not have even a single bug resistor but whatever...
Heheh, I think I was the one responsible for that ;). CB durant is probably one of the best stall-breakers in the meta as if you don't have a hard counter, he can cream everything in defensive teams.
I think rain isn't getting enough usage. RU has access to two fantastic rain sweepers, kabutops and ludicolo, both complimenting each other near perfectly and can tear teams to shreds with some rain support.
Heheh, I think I was the one responsible for that ;). CB durant is probably one of the best stall-breakers in the meta as if you don't have a hard counter, he can cream everything in defensive teams.
I think rain isn't getting enough usage. RU has access to two fantastic rain sweepers, kabutops and ludicolo, both complimenting each other near perfectly and can tear teams to shreds with some rain support.
So you were the culprit. Next time i see you i will have a Qwilfish be sure!
Also about rain teams. Not only they are getting very little use, but i think that if people start realising their potential they could prove to be broken with Damp Rock. I am not really in the mood of arguing why, but from what i have seen offensive rain teams are veeeery hard to stop.
Here's something I've had the most success with so far this round:
Honchkrow (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Night Slash
This usually gets me at least 1 KO, if not, it puts huge holes in the opposing team. HP Ground is going to eliminate some common switch-ins such as Steelix, Klinklang, and Rhydon by 2HKOing. Night Slash is going to play mind games against Pokemon such as Sub Rotom. If you predict correctly, you can KO it with Sucker Punch. Night Slash also hits stuff that predicts Sucker Punch which is always good. The opponent needs to keep switching if he doesn't want to lose something, and this will severely weaken the enemy team allowing my other Pokemon to clean up. In my opinion, this set is way better than the SubMoxie set. Honchkrow doesn't need to survive for long. It works best by denting the opposing team.
Yeah, that SubEncore set kicked my ass so I'm trying it now too. It's very good at creating a free turn, and there are a lot of things in this tier that can own with a free turn.
For example, TR + NP Cofagrigus. That thing rules.
i used TR+NP cofagrigus and its extremely effective, i used it before erryone else on my full trick room team (the team i used to get on council goddamit)
Yea, I gotta say, despite how much I dislike it, Trick Room has proven to be extremely effective in the current metagame - I'm saying this as someone who has been bested by Trick Room a few times.
I can see how trick room is succesful in a pretty fast tier. But is it that difficult to counter? I haven't really played any TR teams and thus I don't really know what many of the popular sweepers are (cofagrigus seems to be one). Just packing a protect on something bulky like wish clefable should at least help it seeing as it only lasts three turns before needing recharging and toxicing it as it sets up again. But don't take my word on it as I haven't played loads of RU recently.
I can see how trick room is succesful in a pretty fast tier. But is it that difficult to counter? I haven't really played any TR teams and thus I don't really know what many of the popular sweepers are (cofagrigus seems to be one). Just packing a protect on something bulky like wish clefable should at least help it seeing as it only lasts three turns before needing recharging and toxicing it as it sets up again. But don't take my word on it as I haven't played loads of RU recently.
Most Trick Room teams carries at least one Physical attacker, with some being Choice Banders such as Aggron. Therefore, Clefable itself is considered as a pretty terrible poke to take on Trick Room. However, pairing it with something like Steelix would be a great idea, as Steelix takes on Aggrons and Druddigons all day, while Clefable stalls out Slowkings with Toxic.
Most Trick Room teams carries at least one Physical attacker, with some being Choice Banders such as Aggron. Therefore, Clefable itself is considered as a pretty terrible poke to take on Trick Room. However, pairing it with something like Steelix would be a great idea, as Steelix takes on Aggrons and Druddigons all day, while Clefable stalls out Slowkings with Toxic.
Manectric (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Lightningrod
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Volt Switch
- Overheat
- Hidden Power [Ice/Grass]
- Switcheroo
Best. Revenge. Killer. In. RU.
Seriously this thing is so good. Overheat or Volt Switch are super effective against the top 9 fastest RU Pokemon, the 10th being Manectric himself. Those Pokemon are rarely seen with a Choice Scarf, so Manectric can either KO or Volt Switch out, giving you the momentum either way. You could even go for Thunderbolt if you want to hit stuff harder because electric moves are some of the best in the tier. Hidden Power can be chosen based on what your team needs the most and Switcheroo helps vs. common switch-ins like Munchlax and all 6 RU Ground-type Pokemon. If you're going to use an offensive team, definitely choose this guy over Galvantula as he is not weak to SR and hits harder.
I agree with the everything the guy above posted except that Manectric hits harder. Galvantula most of the times will be hitting harder due to Thunder and secondary STAB.
Well, Scarf Galvantula is also a bit faster (outspeeds Adamant +2 Kabutops) for some situational things, but the SR weakness somewhat sucks, and Galvantula's Volt Switch is not only significantly weaker, but also heavily discouraged by SR. It's also not immune to TWave, and a Scarfer like Manectric that can't be paralyzed is a big boon in general.
In general, I feel that Grass/Fire coverage is superior to secondary Bug STAB. Manectric can completely wreck defensive cores more than Galvantula, and isn't Stealth Rock weak. A 140 base power Fire attack is great in a tier where HP Fire is standard coverage on literally any special attacker. To be able to free up your Hidden Power to something like Grass is wonderful. Manectric also has access to Switcheroo, which cripples physical attackers and special walls, especially Clefable, who is hard to wear down otherwise.
The 3 base points of speed doesn't make a difference. Adamant +2 Kabutops isn't that common anyway.
I just wanna say, rain is by far one of the most annoying playstyles to go up against. The amount of viable rain setters and abusers is just ridiculous in RU. For rain setters we've got uxie, accelgor, electrode, rotom-c, volbeat, and more. For rain abusers, we've got Gorebyss, kabutops, ludicolo, sharpedo, among others. The only way to deal with them in the rain is by using stupid shit like scarf galvantula, who is promptly destroyed by a rain-boosted aqua jet from kabutops. Rain is a very easy playstyles to learn, and runs through most standard RU teams with ease.
I just wanna say, rain is by far one of the most annoying playstyles to go up against. The amount of viable rain setters and abusers is just ridiculous in RU. For rain setters we've got uxie, accelgor, electrode, rotom-c, volbeat, and more. For rain abusers, we've got Gorebyss, kabutops, ludicolo, sharpedo, among others. The only way to deal with them in the rain is by using stupid shit like scarf galvantula, who is promptly destroyed by a rain-boosted aqua jet from kabutops. Rain is a very easy playstyles to learn, and runs through most standard RU teams with ease.
Ferroseed with Thunder Wave is usually a good check to rain teams. It can stall out rain relying on parahax and Leech Seed, and the only threats to it are Ice Beam from Gorebyss and Earthquake from Kabutops, which is hard by Gyro Ball anyway. Ludicolo can't SubSeed you, although you don't do anything back but set up Spikes.
I felt that it was easier to deal with Rain when Cresselia was around: she could take any hit (even boosted) and fire off a Thunder Wave that's sure to cripple a mon. As of now, there's only a few ways to check a Rain Sweeper in rain, which include Honchkrow Sucker Punch and Entei Espeed, but good rain teams should deal with them rather easily anyways. Rain has access to good priority, spinner, hazard user, bulky weather renewer... just about everything.
I'm noticing what could be called stability amongst RU in general (referring to the more commonly used Pokemon in the tier), but it has a real issue dealing with Pokemon that rarely appear, say from NU. I find a lot of my matchs end up being a roflstomp on my end because none of my Pokemon are anywhere near standard, or I get completely destroyed by a team of 6 Pokemon that don't exist in RU.
In other, relevant news, Klinklang is amazing in RU, since it got moved from NU. It's like a wannabe Dragon Dancer, and even without coverage Gear Grind HURTS.
My main gripe is RAIN TEAMS. I don't want to waste a slot on a silly TWave Ferroseed, and it gets really frustrating to face the endless deluge, because the hard-hitting nature of opponents makes them very yucky to work around, and god forbid switching! I faced a fucking SEAKING rain lead yesterday, and it took careful switching between 3 of my Pokemon and one sacrifice to kill it. Just about anything can set up the rain, and then the opponent can just spam uberpowered water attacks at you. My dependency on Focus Sash SleepDance Lilligant, Scarfed Galvantula and Eviolite Magneton is beginning to become worrying...
All that griping aside, I'm really starting to like this metagame~
Ferroseed with Thunder Wave is usually a good check to rain teams. It can stall out rain relying on parahax and Leech Seed, and the only threats to it are Ice Beam from Gorebyss and Earthquake from Kabutops, which is hard by Gyro Ball anyway. Ludicolo can't SubSeed you, although you don't do anything back but set up Spikes.
Any rain abuser with Sub can easily troll Ferroseed. Examples are Sub Feraligatr with either SD or DD, which can just plow through you after enough boosts and Sub Swift Swim Poliwrath with Belly Drum. Also please don't embarass Kabutops so badly. At +2 it can easily ko Ferroseed with Superpower or deal 60.27 - 71.23% of damage leaving you as easy picking for the next rain sweeper. Not to mention the joke that is called Omastar in rain. Shell Smash? Fuck this, it doesn't even need it because it already outspeeds your whole team and hits like a bull. It can even run HP evs to have very good bulk alongside with White Herb, which is already standart, to become unkillable even by priority.
Here are some calcs of a +2 White Herb Modest Omastar in rain against his best counters/checks:
Big list of calcs
Surf vs Bulk Up Gallade : 92.87 - 109.49%, almost sure ohko after SR) (Hydro Pump obviously ohkoes)
HP Grass vs Defensive Slowking : 59.03 - 69.72%, while the same Slowking deals 61.7 - 72.69% in rain with Scald
Surf vs Standard Ferroseed : 60.61 - 71.23%. Ferroseed can then T-Wave you or Leech Seed you but still gets 2hkoed and outsped even if you are paralyzed. If it switches out you can still predict the switch in and promtly destroy it
Hydro Pump vs Standard Ferroseed : 76.02 - 89.72%
Surf vs RestTalk Munchlax : 56.17 - 66.29%
Hydro Pump vs RestTalk Munchlax : 71.01 - 83.82%.
(Something important to note about Munchlax is that the only thing it can do is phaze you out while also having no reliable recovery)
Surf vs Tank Dusknoir : 92.85 - 109.52%, ohko after SR (unconditional ohko with Hydro Pump)
HP Grass vs Tank Lanturn : 70.82 - 83.79%, while Lanturn ohkoes back IF it carries Tbolt since Volt Switch deals 72.34 - 85.81%
HP Grass vs SubPunch Poliwrath : 94.91 - 111.86%, ohko after SR
HP Grass vs RestTalk Poliwrath : 87.5 - 103.12%, while Poliwrath phazes you out and deals 34.04 - 40.42% with Circle Throw
Surf vs Specially Defensive Mandibuzz : 82.5 - 97.39%, ohko after SR
Ice Beam vs Utility Roselia : 76.31 - 90.13%, while it ohkoes and heals almost to full health with Giga Drain
HP Grass vs Jynx : 58.6 - 69.23%, while it sleeps you
HP Grass vs Support Alomomola : 83.33 - 98.33%, while it Toxics you and dies next turn or hits you with Waterfall for 29.78 - 35.1%
Well that's all i don't think i missed something. As you can see everything gets 2hkoed EASILY, while most of those mons fail to do anything at all back. The best of those is Roselia which ohkoes and has reliable recovery, but you have to keep it at absolute full health, and even then has a small chance of getting ohkoed after SR. God forbid if Omastar choses to run Life Orb. And this is only 1 rain sweeper.
Also here is a list of the common priority attacks vs White Herb Omastar:
LO Mach Punch from Hitmonchan : 56.02 - 66.66%
Sucker Punch from SubRoost Krow : 53.19 - 62.76%
Sucker Punch from CB Spiritomb : 50 - 58.86%
ES from CB Entei : 19.14 - 22.69%
Aqua Jet from Physical LO Sharpedo in rain of 'course : 38.29 - 45.03%
As you can see priority is not an issue for the scary fossil. Only if you carry 2 of those pokes, except Entei you can ensure that Omastar will not sweep your team.
Anyway i am not really sure of what i am trying to prove, but i guess that it is time that we take a look on the insanity that is called Rain Dance teams backed up by Damp Rock, since the meta seems pretty ok, except from this.
Alternatively, Scarfed Manectric+Scarfed Galvantula covers Omastar pretty well! Seconding the earlier post in that Electric is an amazing attacking type. I'm presently just running a team of special attackers and Klinklang to ensure that I dont get thrashed by Honchkrowand its really easy to play, with three VoltTurners andsome huge power between SpecsTres and MixPedo, and huge speed between LOTile and the two scarfers.
Speaking of LO Tile, I firmly believe its the best Pokemon in the meta. Outspeeds almost anything unboosted, has excellent coverage for RU, OHKOs a ton of things, 2HKOs most of the rest, can destroy with Leaf Storm or heal itself with Giga Drain, truly a terrifying Pokemon. The lack of truly fantastic special walls in RU only helps its cause.
Alternatively, Scarfed Manectric+Scarfed Galvantula covers Omastar pretty well! Seconding the earlier post in that Electric is an amazing attacking type. I'm presently just running a team of special attackers and Klinklang to ensure that I dont get thrashed by Honchkrowand its really easy to play, with three VoltTurners andsome huge power between SpecsTres and MixPedo, and huge speed between LOTile and the two scarfers.
Speaking of LO Tile, I firmly believe its the best Pokemon in the meta. Outspeeds almost anything unboosted, has excellent coverage for RU, OHKOs a ton of things, 2HKOs most of the rest, can destroy with Leaf Storm or heal itself with Giga Drain, truly a terrifying Pokemon. The lack of truly fantastic special walls in RU only helps its cause.
Btw the team you mentioned gets completely trashed by SD Kabutops in rain. Of 'course it is difficult for it to setup but when it does it is a clear sweep.
Only thing it can set up on is Klinklang and Buzz/Overheat locked Scarfers since I'm currently testing EB Molty. Klinklang is almost exclusively used to block KrowSol, so that's a non-factor. No denying Rain is good but if it gets too strong I'll just go back to my MegaMoth team with Feroseed and Gastrodon/Mantine now that it's legal agin with Golurk back ^_^
Only thing it can set up on is Klinklang and Buzz/Overheat locked Scarfers since I'm currently testing EB Molty. Klinklang is almost exclusively used to block KrowSol, so that's a non-factor. No denying Rain is good but if it gets too strong I'll just go back to my MegaMoth team with Feroseed and Gastrodon/Mantine now that it's legal agin with Golurk back ^_^
Still Gastrodon and Mantine don't help against the bigger problem which is Omastar. Gastro gets ohkoed at +2 and Mantine gets 2hkoed while failing to do anything back.
As of now the only safe ways to deal with Omastar seem to be 3:
1. Use one of the extremely few mons that can take a hit from him at +2 and actually do something back (Ferroseed, Roselia, Lanturn and T-Wave Slowking)
2. Use an exremely speedy scarfer only when Omastar is outside of rain, since there is no outspeeding him in rain
3. Pack 2 strong priority users and keep both alive 'till you kill him
Also note how both your electric scarfers are outsped by Omastar at +2 inside rain. I am telling this because in your last post you mentioned that they could deal with him, after my post that was mentioning how unstoppable Omastar is in rain, in which they can't stop him.
EDIT: Forget the Gastro part, i forgot that it is OU
Frankly if anyone lets their opponent set up both Rain and let Omastar Shell Smash they deserve to lose. No team should be that poorly constructed as to allow that many set up opportunities within 8 turns.
