Metagame NP: RU Stage 5: Gods and Monsters (HOUNDOOMINITE IS BL2, READ POST #178)

[g]

I'm gonna post one of the most broken megas which should be banned, a brief analysis.

Lopunny-Mega @ Lopunnite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- High Jump Kick
- Ice Punch / Baton Pass
- Power-Up Punch / Fake Out / Encore

Mega-Lopunny is insane, even if looks like is outclassed by Gallade-Mega (both are broken btw). Lopunny-Mega unlike Gallade one can run an Adamant nature easily (in my opinion is the way to go) since Lopunny is already fast, access to Fake Out and is not relevant the speed lost between Jolly or Adamant; only Dugtrio and opposite Jolly Lopunny-Mega and still even using Adamant Nature you are outrunning Whimsicott max speed which is like one of the fastest mons in the tier.

Another thing that deserves be noticed on Mega-Lopunny over much other megas his his great coverage in only two moves thanks to Scrappy, Return + HJK is a perfect coverage unlike Mega-Gallade you're hitting super effective against Doublade and Spiritomb, which otherwise could be huge threats. Great coverage only with two moves means that you have a lot of room to support your Lopunny or the rest of your team.
Power-Up Punch helps to beat way easier defensive teams and along with Scrappy means that you're not walled by ghost types so you're getting +1. Baton Pass is great specially if is paired with Power-Up Punch so you can sweep with yourself and still support your temmates after all. Ice Punch is one of the best option for the last two slots on a Gligar metagame. Encore is really good since Lopunny is so fast so will work pretty well against any kind of booster, wall etc

^this

I also wanted to add that HEALING WISH is another great option in the ice punch/bp slot to revive something weakened like a doublade or escavalier (w/e really) especially in a gligar less metagame

 

[Molk]

For the record, the council votes will start on December 2nd. So all you council members be sure to get your feet wet before then! :]

I'll probably post some of my own personal thoughts in a bit

 

[Mew2]

Shiftry gets two new moves Leaf Blade and Hurricane, while I think that Leaf Blade has little usage aside from the full physical SD set because it is a better version from the already viable Seed Bomb but outside of that Leaf Blade doesn't seem that useful. On the other hand hurricane looks like an amazing offensive move and it will provide amazing coverage, hitting the Fighting types that usually walled him like Gudurr. The bad news is that Shiftry doesn't really have the room for Hurricane but it can sure surprise unsuspected opponents if used correctly.

 

[boltsandbombers]

Shiftry gets two new moves Leaf Blade and Hurricane, while I think that Leaf Blade has little usage aside from the full physical SD set because it is a better version from the already viable Seed Bomb but outside of that Leaf Blade doesn't seem that useful. On the other hand hurricane looks like an amazing offensive move and it will provide amazing coverage, hitting the Fighting types that usually walled him like Gudurr. The bad news is that Shiftry doesn't really have the room for Hurricane but it can sure surprise unsuspected opponents if used correctly.

Leaf Blade is kinda pointless, unless you really want that extra crit chance lol. Hurricane is ok, I guess it hits opposing Grass-types like Amoonguss but I dont know if its that great.

 

[atomicllamas]

Leaf Blade is kinda pointless, unless you really want that extra crit chance lol. Hurricane is ok, I guess it hits opposing Grass-types like Amoonguss but I dont know if its that great.

Leaf Blade has 10 more Base Power than Seed Bomb, meaning it will become standard on SD Shiftry if that remains a thing. Also Defog + Hurricane is actually super funny and may see some use.

 

[boltsandbombers]

Leaf Blade has 10 more Base Power than Seed Bomb, meaning it will become standard on SD Shiftry if that remains a thing. Also Defog + Hurricane is actually super funny and may see some use.

Oh whoops, I totally thought that it was the other way around with Seed Bomb having the higher base power, my bad.

 

[aVocado]

Is that legal with Knock Off ?

 

[boltsandbombers]

Is that legal with Knock Off ?

I'm pretty sure everything is now that Knock Off is a tutor move in ORAS.

 

[Don Honchkrorleone]

Is that legal with Knock Off ?

It is but not with Sucker Punch though, meaning that you either want priority or 10 more BP Grass STAB with a high Crit ratio :(

 

[canasian]

Actually Leaf Blade is a level-up move so it is compatible with the gen 4 tutors (ie Sucker Punch)

 

[Vivmeister10]

Actually Leaf Blade is a level-up move so it is compatible with the gen 4 tutors (ie Sucker Punch)

Nuzleaf does not get Sucker Punch from 4th gen tutors

Edit: Nuzleaf also doesn't get Knock Off, but Shiftry does.

Only move that is illegal with Leaf Blade is Sucker Punch

 

[Flare Blitzle]

Nuzleaf learns Leaf Blade, not Shiftry. While Shiftry learns Sucker Punch, not Nuzleaf. The two aren't legal together.

 

[complete legitimacy]

Everyone always talks about how much they're looking forward to playing new metas, like this one. Well, I'm looking forward to not playing this meta so much right now.

Yeah

 

[aVocado]

my name is no switch ins

Dragalge @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Bomb / Sludge Wave
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Dragon Pulse / Focus Blast

This thing is an absolute monster. Literally has no switch ins. Escavalier? Catch an HP Fire. Anything else besides Registeel? Catch a fucking Draco. Here are some calcs to showcase its power:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Gligar: 358-422 (107.5 - 126.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rhyperior: 394-464 (90.7 - 106.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
this one's obv but w/e: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aromatisse: 412-488 (101.4 - 120.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 234-276 (59.5 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 170-202 (43.2 - 51.3%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO
no one uses this spread but its just to show its power: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 434-512 (81.2 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Really not much else to say about this guy. Comes in, throws a Draco, kills something, and goes out. Pretty fucking amazing. Robert Alfons's tears can act as proof.

Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Ice Punch
- Return
- Healing Wish

HnC already talked about this but I'd like to further tell you how amazing this is. I opted for Jolly to outspeed Dugtrio, Jolteon (even though I've yet to see one), Mega Pidgey and the like. It still hits decently strong. Ice Punch is good coverage as it can 2HKO Gligar, while HJK + Return offer near perfect coverage, and Healing Wish is just amazing utility. It allows Bunny not to be just an amazing sweeper, but also act as a good supporting Pokemon for offensive teams to help sweepers like Fletchinder or Cobalion, and I sometimes soften walls with Dragalge, let it take some hits, then revive it with Healing Wish and break more walls. It's pretty damn good.

Also, Fletchinder is really amazing right now. Its Acrobatics can help so much against almost all the megas running around now, and Golbat is looking like the choice of defogger to opt to for its ability to counter Mega Altaria and check other stuff like Mega Sceptile, Mega Lopunny (ice punch keeps gligar away), etc.

 

[Ares]

my name is no switch ins

Dragalge @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 172 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Bomb / Sludge Wave
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Dragon Pulse / Focus Blast

This thing is an absolute monster. Literally has no switch ins. Escavalier? Catch an HP Fire. Anything else besides Registeel? Catch a fucking Draco. Here are some calcs to showcase its power:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Gligar: 358-422 (107.5 - 126.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rhyperior: 394-464 (90.7 - 106.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
this one's obv but w/e: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aromatisse: 412-488 (101.4 - 120.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 234-276 (59.5 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 170-202 (43.2 - 51.3%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO
no one uses this spread but its just to show its power: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 434-512 (81.2 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Really not much else to say about this guy. Comes in, throws a Draco, kills something, and goes out. Pretty fucking amazing. Robert Alfons's tears can act as proof.

Well your draco droppin provides perfect set up opportunity for this little monster.

Slurpuff @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Drain Punch
- Play Rough
- Return

This thing is a monster right now, being incredibly hard to revenge kill with its new addition of Drain Punch. It now has pretty much unresisted coverage and the ability to heal off all damage with Drain Punch, with unburden it becomes super fast and the things holding it back before are close to mitigated with Drain Punch which was; no coverage for steel-types and no recovery so priority can KO it. Now the only thing is finding an opportunity to set up and to not get phased out. A cool lure set for slurpuff that was posted in the NU np was Draco Plate with Haze, as this is a pretty sweet lure for slurpuff.

 

[Metal Sonic]

Has anybody talked about Mega Altaria yet? I've been using it a lot on the ladder and it appears to be more broken than Mega Gallade(and THAT's saying something).

Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Natural Cure
Happiness: 0
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Frustration
- Roost
- Earthquake

Pixilate Frustration coming off STAB has a base power equivalent to the monstrous Salamence that will be quickbanned in the OU tier. Although Mega Altaria has much lower base stats, its superior defensive typing (Dragon / Fairy) gives it much more setup opportunities.

Additionally, superior coverage options ensures that Mega Altaria will not be easily stopped by the likes of Registeel: Access to Fire Blast and Earthquake allow it to get past the Steel- and Poison-types that wall it, while having another slot for Recover/Heal Bell for greater longevity.

Its superior defensive typing also ensures that it would not be picked off by Priority moves. Resistance to Aqua Jet, Sucker Punch, Mach Punch means that even a weakened Mega Altaria can be unstoppable despite being at 20% health.

The Dragon Dance Mega Altaria set is extremely dangerous and will be very unlikely to be staying in RU, in fact, I believe that it would probably be the first quickban candidate.

PS: It also sets up on locked-in Draco Meteor Dragalge as above!

 

[Cowtao]

Pangoro @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Iron Fist
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 240 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Parting Shot
- Knock Off
- Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch / Hammer Arm

I'm surprised nobody is really talking about Pangoro yet. This was a set that I wanted to try out from the speculation thread and it has been awesome lately. Thanks to ORAS Tutors, Pangoro got everything it so desperately needed to be an effective pokemon in RU. Unfortunately what was still lacking is Pangoro's speed. The scarfed set is very good at making up for it's lackluster speed and being an effective anti-lead/revenge killer. Having STAB Knock Off is a pretty big deal in this tier littered with Ghost and Psychic types. It also gives warning to some of the most popular pokemon in the tier such as Slowking and Delphox. Parting Shot is an amazing tool that can soften hits to allow sweepers to setup such as Doublade and Slurpuff. Gunk Shot is used as additional coverage to hit Tangrowth and Virizion hard. Drain Punch acts as psuedo-recovery and as additional STAB to work with. Other options would be replacing Drain Punch with Hammer Arm and Gunk Shot with...Pretty much any coverage move Panda got from ORAS. You could also try pairing this up with a regen core for a devilish resist core or with other U-Turners/Volt Turners. The EVs are set to outspeed Durant, the Musketeers, Delphox, Mismagius, and some Slurpuff Unburden sets.

 

[Stef0w]

Has anybody talked about Mega Altaria yet? I've been using it a lot on the ladder and it appears to be more broken than Mega Gallade(and THAT's saying something).

Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Natural Cure
Happiness: 0
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Frustration
- Recover
- Earthquake

Pixilate Frustration coming off STAB has a base power equivalent to the monstrous Salamence that will be quickbanned in the OU tier. Although Mega Altaria has much lower base stats, its superior defensive typing (Dragon / Fairy) gives it much more setup opportunities.

Additionally, superior coverage options ensures that Mega Altaria will not be easily stopped by the likes of Registeel: Access to Fire Blast and Earthquake allow it to get past the Steel- and Poison-types that wall it, while having another slot for Recover/Heal Bell for greater longevity.

Its superior defensive typing also ensures that it would not be picked off by Priority moves. Resistance to Aqua Jet, Sucker Punch, Mach Punch means that even a weakened Mega Altaria can be unstoppable despite being at 20% health.

The Dragon Dance Mega Altaria set is extremely dangerous and will be very unlikely to be staying in RU, in fact, I believe that it would probably be the first quickban candidate.

PS: It also sets up on locked-in Draco Meteor Dragalge as above!

Im guessing you meant Roost?

I agree, Mega altaria is absolutely godly right now, it's just awesome around the board, it's bulk and innate power just allows for so many diffrent builds :)

 

[P is For Penguin]

my name is no switch ins

Dragalge @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 172 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Bomb / Sludge Wave
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Dragon Pulse / Focus Blast

This thing is an absolute monster. Literally has no switch ins. Escavalier? Catch an HP Fire. Anything else besides Registeel? Catch a fucking Draco. Here are some calcs to showcase its power:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Gligar: 358-422 (107.5 - 126.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rhyperior: 394-464 (90.7 - 106.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
this one's obv but w/e: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aromatisse: 412-488 (101.4 - 120.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 234-276 (59.5 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 170-202 (43.2 - 51.3%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO
no one uses this spread but its just to show its power: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 434-512 (81.2 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Really not much else to say about this guy. Comes in, throws a Draco, kills something, and goes out. Pretty fucking amazing. Robert Alfons's tears can act as proof.

Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Ice Punch
- Return
- Healing Wish

HnC already talked about this but I'd like to further tell you how amazing this is. I opted for Jolly to outspeed Dugtrio, Jolteon (even though I've yet to see one), Mega Pidgey and the like. It still hits decently strong. Ice Punch is good coverage as it can 2HKO Gligar, while HJK + Return offer near perfect coverage, and Healing Wish is just amazing utility. It allows Bunny not to be just an amazing sweeper, but also act as a good supporting Pokemon for offensive teams to help sweepers like Fletchinder or Cobalion, and I sometimes soften walls with Dragalge, let it take some hits, then revive it with Healing Wish and break more walls. It's pretty damn good.

Also, Fletchinder is really amazing right now. Its Acrobatics can help so much against almost all the megas running around now, and Golbat is looking like the choice of defogger to opt to for its ability to counter Mega Altaria and check other stuff like Mega Sceptile, Mega Lopunny (ice punch keeps gligar away), etc.

why is dragalge missing 4evs?

 

[Holiday]

One Pokemon I don't see much talk about is one of my favorite new Megas: Steelix.

Steelix @ Steelixite
Ability: Sturdy--> Sand Force
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Roar

This set has pretty good bulk. Univested, Steelix has nearly 500 Def, so there really isn't a need to invest in there. Mega Steelix is a champ at taking knock offs for pokemon such as Doublade, Delphox, and Meloetta. This set racks up damage passively, with Rocks + Phazing + DoT with Toxic. Earthquake is a good STAB move coming off of base 125 Atk, allowing you to smack the Posion/Darks of the tier, Cobalion, and Doublade, although if need be, Iron Head can be the attacking move. It's obviously a situational mega, since even with the SpD, it's not gonna want to switch in repeatedly to Fire Blasts and Hydro Pumps, but I think we can all agree it is one of the few Megas that isn't leaving the tier, and can become an excellent wall for balance and stall teams provided Wish Support is given.

 

[Mistress Remilia]

Talking about megas that will go up due to usage is pointless zzz

On a more positive side, Pangoro will be very nice, and it feels very suitable for any TR team.
Well, that's it. The major change will be the tier shifts, mainly Gligar & Mola, and the existence of Dragalge & Pangoro & Slurpuff, even if Dragalge has chances to end up UU.
There's 4/5 new ORAS Megas too that will be RU, but none of them seems interesting to me.
I'll miss playing with Band Gallade.

 

[Lemonade]

I've been using bulky Mega Alt with Dragalge and Dug. Basically what Dug can't trap is Weezing and that's free for Drag, and you can also heal off burns with Heal Bell. Throw like a strong attacker that has trouble with Mola in and get free setup with Alt and stuff, Doublade is pretty cool and kinda covers CM Cress, tho these guys still get donked by Melo a bit.

But ye Alt and Drag is super solid minus Steels

 

[Hiddenfreezer]

One Pokemon I don't see much talk about is one of my favorite new Megas: Steelix.

Steelix @ Steelixite
Ability: Sturdy--> Sand Force
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Roar

This set has pretty good bulk. Univested, Steelix has nearly 500 Def, so there really isn't a need to invest in there. Mega Steelix is a champ at taking knock offs for pokemon such as Doublade, Delphox, and Meloetta. This set racks up damage passively, with Rocks + Phazing + DoT with Toxic. Earthquake is a good STAB move coming off of base 125 Atk, allowing you to smack the Posion/Darks of the tier, Cobalion, and Doublade, although if need be, Iron Head can be the attacking move. It's obviously a situational mega, since even with the SpD, it's not gonna want to switch in repeatedly to Fire Blasts and Hydro Pumps, but I think we can all agree it is one of the few Megas that isn't leaving the tier, and can become an excellent wall for balance and stall teams provided Wish Support is given.

YES
Mega Steelix will be a great addition to RU: It is one of the best pokemon to deal with the bellydrumming cutton ball, has great resists(especially for boltbeam couverage mons and dragalge, too!)

He got an important attack boost, which makes his attack pretty decent...

Just a question, is there a way to really use his ability Sand Force? I mean Sandstorm Steelix would be able to cancel out weather and power up his moves, but no idea though.


RU will be a lot of fun, too bad that some Pokemon will get banned :/ but we all know power creep does that


Edit: Draco Meteor HAZE Dragalge sounds super interesting. Before it gets called bad, don't forget how useful Haze can be in general

 

[Lemonade]

Back again, played with Kecleon some. Protean Drain Punch and Knock Off in particular do a ton of deeps, IMO Sucker Punch is kinda necessary because Pangoro has both of those too but not Sucker, although Kecleon has pretty good Special bulk and not dual Fighting / Dark coverage, which can be good and bad.

I've been using

stop theif (Kecleon) @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Ice Punch

84 Speed for the arbitrary amount of creep (base 50s, also covers most Doublade and Rhyperior nice!). You can beat a lot of Special attackers 1v1, as well as Doublade and stuff. People definitely don't know what it does yet, because they leave their Specs / Scarf Meloetta's in and die to Sucker Punch. The other priority move you could is is Shadow Sneak if you are scared of non-attacking mindgames, but actually Kecleon can live like +1 Delphox and kill with Knock Off (Sucker the first turn so it can't Psyshock you, you don't take physical hits very well), and it doesn't hit Meloetta etc. Oh yeah, screws Mega Bredrill outside of a 252 HP one I found (I also got a min roll...). Not really sure what to run in the last slot, can't really touch Fairies outside of Iron Tail, I don't think Fire Punch hits anything relevant that Drain Punch doesn't, I've just been using Ice Punch for like Gligar (tho it's probably leaving next time). It's also nice for Mega-Pidgeot I guess since you eat one Hurricane pretty easily. Oh yeah Amoonguss too. Low Speed makes me cry ;-;

So this doesn't really beat like Alomomola and faster physical attackers, especially Fighting-types. Oh yeah and Jellicent is too fast :( Hey what do you know DD Mega Altaria with Heal Bell beats them and heals potential burns! Also generic hazards etc.

 

[EonX]

Haven't really seen anybody talking about it yet, so I think I will:

Pidgeot-Mega (M) @ Pidgeotite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Heat Wave
- U-turn / Hidden Power Grass
- Roost

So I've been using Mega Pidgeot with my Cobalion + Accelgor core and it works really well. Pair it with a wallbreaker, such as Pangoro, Meloetta, or Dragalge, and this thing is able to put in a lot of work. Unlike Moltres, Mega Pidgeot uses its Hurricanes to clean up late game once walls are weakened and faster threats are removed. Heat Wave is amazing coverage to nail shit like Escavalier, Registeel, and the odd Mega Steelix, thus lessening the load on wallbreakers since Pidgeot can handle some of the top walls in the tier. U-turn is nice for momentum and can really keep teams off balance when you have Support Cobalion to pivot into. HP Grass is an option to nail Rhyperior and friends if U-turn's utility doesn't appeal to you. Roost gives Mega Pidgeot some recovery and can keep it out of range of priority moves. (also serves as a way to get around Sucker Punch) If HP Grass is used, move the 4 Attack EVs into a defensive stat. I like it most on Spikes offense since most Defoggers and Spinners give Mega Pidgeot a free switch-in (and it happens to pressure them as well) and Mega Pidgeot doesn't always hit quite as hard as you would like.

Agreeing with Lemonade that Kecleon is kinda cool now. Not mind-blowing by any means, but I have had a little fun with it.