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np: RU Stage 7 - Don't Look Back

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Oglemi, Apr 2, 2012.

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  1. Honko

    Honko
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    Use Camerupt with Slowking + Tangrowth. It absolutely owns Magmortar, Manectric, Galvantula, Accelgor...basically every special attacker that gives that duo trouble, Camerupt destroys. It makes the best FWG core RU could ask for.

    I prefer an offensive tank set (252 HP / 252 SpA, SR / Fire Blast / Earth Power / HP Rock), but defensive is solid too (252 HP / 252 SpD, SR / Lava Plume / Earthquake / Roar). Either way you counter the hell out of all those Magmortar and Manectric running around.

    Use it.
  2. Molk

    Molk mfw houndoom might drop
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    Im going to have to back up honko here haha, ive faced him and his camerupt on the ladder all too many times and for a mon with only 70/75/75 defenses it takes hits surprisingly well! It also has rocks so it saves you a teamslot if you need good partner for the core. Going to test rupt out myself and see how it does for me.
  3. spuds4ever

    spuds4ever

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    Yes, I don't see why not more people use poison jab on drapion, especially on its CB set, 2hkoing tangrowth is a great feat for a CBer with as much bulk as drapion.

    Yeah, I can see archeops steadily rising as a very prominent threat to look out for seeing as its acrobatics set with EP etc. is pretty much impossible to wall.

    @ditto, it's literally just tangking+cofagrigus that's the craze. That's the only reason all the other pokemon are popular. But seriously, people need to start using other defensive cores. Tangking is so well prepared for nowadays. Steelix+Mantine was quite a fun core I was messing around with a while ago. A pity though that mantine didn't get roost :(
  4. SilentVerse

    SilentVerse Into the New World
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    Camerupt seems like a really cool Pokemon to use with that TanKing core, but ehh, I'm still kinda doubtful of how useful it is. With an offensive spread, Camerupt is 2HKOed by Magmortar's and Accelgor's Focus Blast, and is still 3HKO'd by stuff like Life Orb Manectric and Galvantula's Hidden Power Grass and Energy Ball respectively. It probably fares better with a defensive spread, but then it doesn't quite hit as hard as I'd like. It's probably one of the best Pokemon to use alongside the core though, so I guess I'll try it to see how it does.

    Also, spuds, even though TanKing is so well prepared for, it's still a potent bulky offensive core. As long as you pack a check against the few things that give the core issues (such as Honko's Camerupt), it still tears through teams with surprising ease. It's also really difficult to use other defensive cores when TanKing is just so good :/.

    Also, I kinda have to agree with DittoCrow's sentiments that Lanturn will probably be the best bulky Water-type in the BW2 RU metagame. With stuff like Magmortar being basically everywhere on the ladder, and Hurricane Moltres looking to be an incredibly deadly threat, Slowking just doesn't cut it, since both of those Pokemon have a way to easily 2HKO him. Lanturn is a much more reliable check since it resists / is immune to Fire Blast / Thunderbolt / Hurricane, so it can deal with those threats more easily. It can also tank a Flying Gem Acrobatics from Archeops well, so it can even make an ok check to that too. Lanturn is definitely going to be a Pokemon I'm going to be using a lot in the new metagame!
  5. Honko

    Honko
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    Magmortar really doesn't want to ever use Focus Blast. For one thing, that 2HKO only has a 49% chance to actually happen because of dat accuracy, while Camerupt will OHKO back 100% of the time, so it's basically counting on a coin flip even if it predicts the switch to Camerupt. But more importantly, Focus Blast won't do shit to Slowking. Magmortar isn't a Pokemon that can come in a bunch of times. Between hazards and LO recoil, it only gets one or two chances to smash some walls. If it uses Thunderbolt on Camerupt or Focus Blast on Slowking, that's a huge blow to its momentum and to its chances of ever breaking the core. It makes prediction much more difficult, and against that core Magmortar needs to predict perfectly if it wants to accomplish anything at all. The same is true for Accelgor, Galvantula, and Manectric.

    The defensive spread is definitely a more solid counter to those mons, as it can take multiple hits from each of them and still OHKO back (make sure you use Earthquake and not Earth Power on the defensive set or else Magmortar survives). But I find that a 100% counter isn't really necessary, because you usually only need to switch in once or twice, and your opponent will almost always be more worried about Slowking coming in than Camerupt (for good reason). That's why I prefer the offensive spread, because it can switch in a couple of times, and then whatever the opponent switches to takes a huge hit. Lots of people try to switch Cofagrigus into Camerupt thinking it's a good opportunity to set up. Instead they lose their Cofagrigus to a 2HKO from Fire Blast + Earth Power. Modest Camerupt 2HKOes almost everything that isn't a special wall, even without any boosting item.

    On its own it's just decent. It's a cool counter to Electrics and Fires, but it would be very limited outside of that. Its real strength comes from its synergy with TanKing (and Slowking in particular). It's so important for opponents to hit those two with the right move on the switch that it almost forces opponents to play into Camerupt's hands.
  6. Omicron

    Omicron
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    So now we should start using Magmortar with Hidden Power Water B)

    On another note, I'm really liking offensive Sigilyph in this metagame. A moveset with Calm Mind / Psyshock / Air Slash / Hidden Power Ground or Roost somewhere in there really tears through a lot of cores. With Roost and Calm Mind, Sigilyph can even get past Slowking bar a crit. A really useful and powerful mon overall.
  7. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    As SilentVerse said, Lanturn looks very promising in the new meta! And people please don't run the Heal Bell + 3 attack set if you want a good counter to the special fire types such as Magmortar and Moltres (both can 2hko with entry hazards), and to many other special attackers such as Manectric and Omastar, since Lanturn's lack of reliable recovery can only get him so far... Use either the RestTalk set with Heal Bell + Scald/Discharge, or the RestTalk set with dual STABs and Heal Bell support.

    And Druddigon seems really interesting right now. The set that i want to use is the Max HP/ Max Atk +, with SR / Outrage / Fire Punch / Sucker Punch, Sheer Force and LO. It has great bulk, nice resistances, only 1 relevant weakness, awesome firepower, perfect neutral coverage, can use LO without the recoil when using Fire Punch (which is a very good attack to spam, as the best switch-ins to him are Steels and Tangrowth), has good utility (SR) and strong priority! What's not to love?

    Magmortar has to rely on a coinflip to 2hko Camerupt, not to survive. If your first FB connects, then you stay in and have a 70% chance to kill Camerupt, meaning a 30% chance to die. If your first FB doesn't connect, then you simply switch out and live to fight another day. So Magmortar has 49% chance to 2hko Camerupt, and 30% chance to die from Camerupt.

    Magmortar doesn't have so much problems switching in, as you make it seem Honko. First of all EB is way better than LO, as Magmortar already 2hkoes everything relevant with Modest and EB, as he has great super effective coverage, and he also hates the LO recoil. He also has good special bulk and an exceptional ability for this meta, which allow him to easily come into Tangrowth, Roselia, Smeargle, Cryogonal, Lilligant (most of the times) and Ferroseed. Just make sure that SR is off the field, and you can be sure that Magmortar will be coming more than once in each game to wreck havoc!
  8. Honko

    Honko
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    "Switch out and live to fight another day" is pretty much a loss when you're relying on Magmortar to break my core and now it has to find another chance to switch in. Not to mention the big hit one of your Pokemon will have to take switching into Camerupt now.

    What's to stop me from switching to Slowking if that first Focus Blast hits, forcing you out just the same? You're not gonna use Thunderbolt with a Camerupt in front of you. You get forced out and have to find another chance to switch in + hazards damage, while the TanKing core that Magmortar is supposed to be destroying remains untouched. If you predict perfectly multiple turns in a row every time you bring Magmortar out, you CAN win (assuming Focus Blast hits), but the odds are strongly against you.

    EB Magmortar doesn't 2HKO 252/0 Camerupt, so it loses regardless. EB is a good item in theory for Pokemon like Magmortar, but it's very rarely better than LO in practice.

    He has OK special bulk. He's still getting 2-3HKOed by any neutral STAB move, which makes it very difficult to come in more than once or twice when you factor in hazards and LO recoil. HP Rock is not at all uncommon on Tangrowth and Lilligant, which makes switching into them dangerous. Vital Spirit is cool, but much like Bouffalant and Primeape, the sleep absorber switch-in gets predictable pretty fast. The rest of the Pokemon you listed are rarely seen together except on stall (which would probably use a defensive Camerupt set that owns Magmortar no matter what), so realistically there will only be 1 Pokemon on the opponent's team that Magmortar can safely switch into. He's not gonna be switching in willy-nilly. I've faced plenty of Magmortars, and rarely do they come in more than twice.
  9. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Well with Tangrowth in the core it is not so hard for Magmortar to come in again. I am not going to go in details, but from my experience with Magmortar, i was able to bring him in 2-3 times in each match, or only once if he had already achieved his purpose of breaking the opponent's defensive core.

    I am not going to argue whether Magmortar is easy to use or not. I was simply stating facts. And it is a fact that Magmortar has a 49% chance to 2hko Camerupt and a 30% chance to die from it.

    It 2hkoes easily even without SR. I have used both LO and EB Magmortar and i have found EB to be way better, as with it Magmortar ohkoes-2hkoes anything he needs without wasting HP.

    75/95 is good bulk, not ok bulk. And anyway my point was to simply show you that Magmortar is not risking as much as you claim whenever facing a Camerupt. Let's not forget that the defensive core of TanKing + Camerupt will be only used only on balanced and stall teams, and both of them can't take huge risks when you are trying to penetrate their defences, because if you do they will be screwed. Therefore it is much easier for you to predict their move than for them to predict yours.
  10. Honko

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    Why the hell are you using Modest?

    LO Tangrowth + Specs Slowking + Leftovers Camerupt works great as a bulky offensive core as well. But even if we are talking about stall, you're still wrong, because (a) defensive Camerupt (the set that stall would use) completely owns Magmortar every time even if you Focus Blast on the switch and never miss, and (b) Regenerator allows Slowking and Tangrowth to be risky even on stall. I can afford to switch Slowking into Magmortar to tank a Focus Blast, because even if you end up using Thunderbolt, I can switch back out to Camerupt and only end up losing ~25% in the long run. You, on the other hand, can't afford to risk using Focus Blast when I have Slowking out or Thunderbolt when I have Camerupt out to try to catch me on the switch, because if you guess wrong, Magmortar is 100% dead and you just lost your best hope of breaking my core.
  11. DetroitLolcat

    DetroitLolcat Maize And Blue Badge Set :)
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    Expert Belt Magmortar always uses Modest...
  12. complete legitimacy

    complete legitimacy Honko's Happy Funtime With Men
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    Well, I guess I'll post my thoughts on how the metagame has been these past few months. Before mid-May I was still figuring out what worked in the new metagame, but around then I suddenly had an idea. I'd used Scarf Magmortar before, and while it isn't even close to the Expert Belt set in terms of effectiveness, it was still something that I kept in the back of my mind should I need to use it again. Well, that time came, and I happened to stumble upon the most anti-metagame Pokemon in RU, and made a set worthy of its greatness. Being able to singlehandedly defeat the TanKing core was truly an amazing feat, and you can see now that it's spiraled the metagame into something totally different. Honestly I had no idea that Magmortar would be this good, but now there's gonna be a lot more Lanturn and Munchlax as well as lesser used counters such as Camerupt, Flareon, Grumpig, and others.

    But the main point of this post is to call attention to a strategy that I have found to be really successful, and that is FireTrapping, as DittoCrow called it. It's kinda like DragMag where you eventually want to just spam high-powered STAB attacks and trap all the resists. However, in RU most of the good special walls, especially those that resist Fire (Slowking, Munchlax, Cryogonal) are extremely prone to Pursuit, and that can be easily taken advantage of. I just think it's that RU has a bunch of good Fire-types such as Moltres, Magmortar, and Typhlosion and good Pursuit trappers such as Spiritomb, Drapion, and Absol that really make this strategy good. I originally used it without even knowing, but now I think I've finally realized how potent it is, since it's at the heart of all my teams. Of course, I don't think it will be as effective as it is now in the BW2 metagame, since everyone wil be making the switch from Slowking to Lanturn to deal with Magmortar and Hurricane Moltres. And of course, Lanturn is much less susceptible to Pursuit.

    Now, I think TanKing will become less of a defensive combo and more of a bulky offensive combo. With the new changes from BW2, the Lanturn + Amoonguss core looks to be superior on the defensive side of things. This means that Slowking and Tangrowth will definitely take a dive in usage, but they'll both still be top-tier in my opinion. Cofagrigus only got better, but Cryogonal will still be around to stop it. Anyways, this stage of the metagame has been fun, and hopefully the next one will too! As a side note:

    Fuck Tangrowth.
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