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Metagame NP: SM NU Stage 0 (Beta): Bring The Noize [Cofagrigus is Banned]

Discussion in 'SM NeverUsed' started by Kiyo, Jun 7, 2017.

  1. Kiyo

    Kiyo
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    NU Co-Leader

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    Hello due to May stats being uploaded (thanks antar) we have the initial banlist for NU Beta, which can be found here. Now expect this tier to be very volatile and to have a lot of bans happening throughout the next month or so while we work out what is banworthy and what isnt in the tier.

    For those who played the Alpha here's what was gained and lost:
    +[​IMG]
    -[​IMG]
    -[​IMG]
    -[​IMG]

    also a more clear link to the thread here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/usage-based-tier-updates-for-june.3606072/

    A post should be up soon that details how we will be tiering for the upcoming month(s) as well as who is going to be a part of the council this generation. This thread will be used for all discussion pertaining to the metagame as well discussion of potential bans as well as ongoing suspects once the time for that comes.

    Also Kiyo and I have decided to just insta-ban pokemon we saw as completely unhealthy for the tier and no need to even test them in the upcoming metagame in order to have the healthiest tier possible. After discussions the Pokemon we decided that were unhealthy were Yanmega and Slurpuff, the two mons will be considered quickbanned as of right now and will not be allowed in the Beta tier. Also going to tag The Immortal to make these changes live whenever the Beta ladder goes up, thanks n_n.

    [​IMG]
    Yanmega: Yanmega is blessed with two incredible abilities in the form of Tinted Lens and Speed Boost. The former allows it to use its already monstrous 116 base Special Attack and Choice Specs to blow past would-be counters that would otherwise resist its attacks, while the latter gives Yanmega the ability to make up for its middling 95 Speed and sweep through offensive teams while still maintaining a good amount of power when packing Life Orb. Yanmega was a centralizing force in NU Alpha forcing players to run a small set of hard counters in order to prevent getting swept from team preview, and the number of checks to Yanmega has only decreased with the shift to Beta. With these things considered Yanmega will be quickbanned from SM NU Beta.

    [​IMG]
    Slurpuff: Slurpuff keeps a lot of the problems that made it broken last generation. Once Slurpuff is able to get off a Belly Drum there is nothing in the tier that is able to reliably handle it. The combination of Unburden to double its speed as well as the addition to Drain Punch to its moveset in ORAS means even once common checks like Steelix are unable to handle it with a little bit of chip damage. Slurpuff also has an advantageous typing in Fairy that gives it both good Offensive STAB as well as a good type to set up with due to a high amount of resistances to common types while its weaknesses are not as common in the NU metagame. All of this together means Slurpuff is too unhealthy for the tier and will be quickbanned as of now.
    More threads should be going up soon, but for now enjoy playing and posting in our brand new tier n_n
  2. Melons-N-Soda

    Melons-N-Soda

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2013
    Messages:
    665
    So, when it comes to Jellicent, I think this will be its best option (though I think the EVs could change this gen):

    Jellicent @ Leftovers / Colbur Berry
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
    Bold Nature
    - Taunt
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Recover
    - Scald / Hex

    Over its competition, it has immunities to Fighting, Normal, and Water thanks to its ability. Thanks to its typing, Taunt, and Will-O-Wisp, it can effectively cripple and stall out common defensive Pokemon such as Audino, Steelix, and Slowbro. Its very vulnerable to Dark-types, however, so Colbur Berry can be used over Leftovers. (Recover is good enough recovery) The choice between Hex and Scald is up to you.

    I could also see a gimmicky Scarf or Specs set working on Shuckle Sticky Web teams thanks to Water Spout, but that will likely be ass so I won't post its set.

    On a side note, thank fuck Yanmega is gone. That thing gave me such a headache.
    tenkai, eht, Khaytra and 3 others like this.
  3. ADVANTAGE

    ADVANTAGE Tournament Banned
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    some pokemon/sets i wanted to share w/ u guys :D
    [​IMG]
    Noivern @ Life Orb
    Ability: Infiltrator
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Draco Meteor
    - Flamethrower
    - Hurricane
    - Taunt

    This thing is a fucking monster right now as most of u are aware of. Only really "notable" mention is taunt over smth like roost, and i find it incredibly helpful vs any switch in like togetic p2 golbat and the like. i honestly find myself leading w/ it in most matchups bc u outspeed almost everything and can drop a nuke then usually taunt the bulky mon on the opposing side. Last mention is to pair with Sneasel (imo) or another pursuiter for av slowking as that's the main stop to this set.

    [​IMG]
    Toxicroak @ Life Orb
    Ability: Dry Skin
    EVs: 28 HP / 252 Atk / 228 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Drain Punch
    - Gunk Shot
    - Swords Dance
    - Sucker Punch

    speed is for +speed base 70s. This pokemon WAS amazing but the addition of Jelly makes this thing slightly worse as jelly hard counters unless u run nasty plot dark pulse or tpunch on sd. I havent tried np yet but ive heard from Evan. it's good.
    [22:35:46] Quziel: yo, slash dark-z on croak in your post
    [22:35:51] Quziel: lets you beat jelli
    [22:36:18] Quziel:and lures ghosts super hard

    [​IMG]
    Braviary @ Fightinium Z
    Ability: Defiant
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Return
    - Superpower
    - Bulk Up

    Excellent mon on hazard stack T B H. In almost every matchup ive lured a normal/flying resist with z superpower bc they expected choiced so in that aspect it's an excellent bluff (although i guess not after i make this post huh ;_;). Ive been using lead omastar as i like it the most but u could run this on any team provided u need hazards up and want to pressure defog.

    [​IMG]
    Vaporeon @ Normalium Z
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Celebrate

    This idea is stole from my boi Evan. I built a team with specs (which is still good btw) but the team ended up with no z move and then Evan told me about this gem. I really, REALLY like it. Tons of set up opportunities bc of Vap's natural bulk, and it hits super fucking hard after the boost bc it's essentially specs but with you know, a +1 in every other stat.

    That's all for now, prob gonna go think of some new ideas. also it's fun to see the teams/sets u guys come up with so keep at it. i ran into imprison sableye the other day and it essentially walled by drapion and i thought that was rly fucking cool (walled pangoro too but rip panda). anyway im rambling, pce
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2017
  4. quziel

    quziel

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2015
    Messages:
    139
    Really quick post to push this Jelli spread, which basically exists solely to beat Specs Ribombee, which can be super annoying to beat properly.

    [​IMG]
    Jellicent @ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 248 HP / 184 Def / 32 SpD / 44 Spe
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Scald
    - Taunt
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Recover

    252 SpA Choice Specs Ribombee Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 32+ SpD Jellicent: 159-187 (39.4 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

    Sure Bold, full physdef Jelli is nice and all for beating the hell out of the occasional choice locked fighting type, but the reason you're choosing the mon is because of its very usable spdef stat, and fantastic mixed bulk, so why not use an ev spread which lets you beat one of the more annoying mons in the tier. The spread above prevents the 2hko after rocks from Ribombee's Moonblast, with enough speed to beat Vaporeon before it toxic's you (not the most relevant, but still useful).
    Another mon which is disgustingly effective is Sub-Bulk-Up Braviary, which takes advantage of weak water and ghost types, sets up Sub, and can often force a win from early points in the game.

    [​IMG]
    Braviary @ Leftovers
    Ability: Defiant
    EVs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 208 SpD / 16 Spe
    Careful Nature
    - Substitute
    - Bulk Up
    - Brave Bird
    - Roost

    Ev Spread's a bit odd, but basically is enough speed to beat max speed base 50's, enough bulk for a sub to live a scald from Vaporeon (not sure why I'm using that mon as a benchmark). Aside from that pretty standard with the rest of the evs shoved in defense in an attempt to tank random stuff a bit better. Not much to say, and not really a new set, but its still really effective unless you're facing like infiltrator toxic golbat.

    General meta thoughts are that mons to punish the hell out of P2, such as CB Machamp, Fighting in general, Cro-tomb, and the such are gonna be super useful, and an easy way to make your matchup vs. Stall/Balance a lot easier. Ways to deal with sun are also helpful, such as AV Incineroar (imperfect, but helps), Z-Happy Hour Charizard (pray they lead with Ninetales), and spdef variants of the tier's bulky dragons are nice enough.

    Sub-DD Kingdra remains disgustingly strong, and really should be used more.

    Also, we have legit every single lower tier ghost here barring like Hoopa, so be prepared to deal with the whole gambit of ghost types when you're making your fighting spam squad, so a solid pursuit user such as LO Sneasel, CB Drapion, or Spiritomb would be very useful on a wide variety of teams, as well as beating the hell out of our resident Box Legend, Necrozma, which often has difficulties even damaging dark types, if it even carries a move to hit them.
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2017
  5. MARCU5theBAW5

    MARCU5theBAW5

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2014
    Messages:
    58
    [​IMG]
    Cinccino @ Fightinium Z
    Ability: Skill Link
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Naive Nature
    - Work Up
    - Focus Blast
    - Tail Slap
    - Bullet Seed

    Alright here we go. Now I can't take credit for coming up with Focus Blast Cinccino but I can take credit for the masterpiece known as Work Up Fightinium Z, which of course turns Focus Blast into the yung All-Out Pummeling.
    Ya see, as soon as peeps see the Cinccino, on the battlefield, just out and about, they switch into Steelix. It's like a magnet. They just click that shit. What you gotta do is like Work Up on their switch to Steelix.

    +1 4 SpA Cinccino All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 244 HP / 152 SpD Steelix: 334-394 (94.8 - 111.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

    Now, if you click Work Up on the initial steelix switch in you can't go right for this cause your opponent is gon see work up and likely think youre up to something and try to double. so you gotta play around it a bit by playing cinccino as if you cant touch the steelix. basically bluffing that you dont have z focus blast or somethin. by the time you've done it enough, steelix is probably in range of a +1 pummeling and might even be in range of an unboosted one or straight focus blast at that point.

    you could use other coverage moves like maybe knock off or something or pair it with spikes support and/or a pursuit trapper

    [​IMG]
    Toxicroak @ Black Sludge
    Ability: Dry Skin
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Impish Nature
    - Drain Punch
    - Gunk Shot
    - Knock Off
    - Bulk Up

    i can't take credit for the creation of this set but i can say that ive been loving it. it was mainly to answer to pangoro because resisting dark / fighting / poison coverage is clutch, and even with pangoro gone, this set is still pretty decent at answering to physical dark and fighting types like machamp, virizion (provided its edge and not zhb), hariyama, opposing toxicroak, sneasel, and more. knock off is pretty nice for removing things items if like a slowbro or jellicent tries to switch into you, drain and gunk shot are powerful dual stabs, and bulk up, while it aint necessarily there for sweeping, is a nice move to have for that atk + def boost. you might be looking at it wondering why it aint spdef but poison/fighting is just a beautiful, beautiful physically defensive typing even with toxicroak's defenses not being too great. it doesnt take neutral hits too well but like 95% of the time youre going to be switching into resisted hits.

    like the cinccino set above it works well with pursuit support.
  6. Hootie

    Hootie
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Global Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    upload_2017-6-8_3-47-56.gif
    Moltres @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 232 HP / 140 SpD / 136 Spe
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Toxic
    - Flamethrower

    If you got this backed by good hazard control, ideally Xatu + a spinner, this Moltres set is a total pain in the ass to deal with for many teams, taking advantage of mons like Steelix, Aromatisse, Specs Typhlosion, and BLUNDERZARD, easily stalling the last two's PP in particular. Also helps that you cripple bulky waters like Slowking and Seismitoad, because even their Scalds are barely doing enough that Roost + Leftovers won't already recover. EVs let it outspeed Adamant Garbodor, Spdef reaches towards a jump point in bulk. Specs seems to be getting more hype out of this 'mon, but I find this set to be more consistent thanks to its ability to cripple would be counters and walling several 'mons. Also worth noting that this set was even more useful when Yanmega was around since Specs couldn't touch it unless it was packing Ancient power, but we all know the fate of that annoying bug.
    upload_2017-6-8_3-48-4.gif
    Sneasel @ Choice Band
    Ability: Inner Focus
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Knock Off
    - Pursuit
    - Icicle Crash
    - Ice Shard

    By no means a creative set, but I feel like Banded Sneasel is superior to LO, which lacks the power behind its attacks at times and makes Sneasel even easier to wear down between rocks and hazards being bothersome. This set is really nice for hazard stack teams in particular because it supports things like Garbodor and Qwilfish really well by threatening Xatu. Sneasel in general is still a huge threat like it was back when it got suspected it ORAS and I really encourage you guys to give this mon a try if you haven't already.

    --------

    Don't really have much else to share for sets, but as for my thoughts on the meta so far, things like Porygon2 I find is something that seriously needs to go, because even when you have Pokemon that threaten it, you can still lose to it easily unless you find a way to pressure it by having shitloads of hazards on the field and managing to force it out, or having some sort of Knock Off lure. It's so ridiculous how much of the meta is walls and it makes a lot of other broken threats seem fine as long as it's around, but we shouldn't be going by the broken beats broken type of mentality here because it's obviously keeping the meta centralized. Other things like Exploud I find difficult to deal with too, especially when it has things like Porygon2 to support it via Trick Room, but that 'mon is still a lesser issue for the time being anyways. Also really glad that Dragalge and Pangoro moved up because those 'mons were very unhealthy for the meta, so there's some saving grace there at least. Besides the things I listed, I'm fine with how the meta is for now and am looking forward to building some more teams for this tier.
  7. erisia

    erisia this is fine
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
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    Iloveweather, nv and Allstar like this.
  8. Skelos

    Skelos

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2016
    Messages:
    111
    Good mon i swer (Guzzlord) @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Beast Boost
    EVs: 196 Def / 252 SpD / 60 Spe
    Calm Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Dragon Tail
    - Flamethrower
    - Heavy Slam / Crunch

    Just a quick slap. It's good I swear.

    Idk but it doesnt fail me everytime I need it. This set is p much just used to phaze stuff and pairs well with Spike stackers in general which works nicely in conjunction with DTail. Set is p much the AV set everybody excpected, spe for base 50s which idk if it's so relevant atm ( -speed would be better if so, with the evs moved to Def ). Just as everybody thought it is underwhelming, Guzzlord p much does wonders other things can do, like it's only 3HKOd by Exploud's Boomburst in example. Its coverage is good too and it does hit fairly well without any investment. Guzzlord may be not the best stuff out there but it's not too bad to just let it slide down unnoticed.

    calcs (open)


    252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Guzzlord: 207-244 (35.2 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (Focus blast does about the same, maxing at around 47.)

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Guzzlord: 392-464 (66.7 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Guzzlord: 160-188 (27.2 - 32%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

    0- Atk Guzzlord Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Aromatisse: 140-166 (34.4 - 40.8%) -- 58.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

    0 Atk Guzzlord Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Aromatisse: 156-184 (38.4 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery



    Lycanroc @ Hard Stone / Fightinium-Z / Life Orb
    Ability: Sand Rush
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Stone Edge
    - Accelerock
    - Brick Break

    This mon is just an amazing cleaner that does just good enough to beat weakened teams. Hard Stone lets it have hard hitting and more consistent recoil free Rock-typed STABs, although LO gives it more power and could net some possible KOs Hard Stone is falling short. Fightinium-Z is better if you want to break your usual counters in Steels and Rock /Grounds and other things tht resist its STAB. Accelerock is also an amazing Prio, and hits like everything faster hard. It's bad bulk makes it struggle sometimes to get an SD, however.

    calcs (open)


    +2 252 Atk Life Orb Lycanroc Stone Edge vs. 204 HP / 248+ Def Vaporeon: 386-454 (85.3 - 100.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    +2 252 Atk Life Orb Lycanroc Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spiritomb: 265-313 (87.1 - 102.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    +2 252 Atk Life Orb Lycanroc Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 20+ Def Uxie: 277-328 (78.2 - 92.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252 Atk Life Orb Lycanroc Accelerock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ribombee: 237-281 (90.8 - 107.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    +2 252 Atk Lycanroc All-Out Pummeling (140 BP) vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 304-358 (86.3 - 101.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock



    Those are some sets i could drop for now, putting others soon oo.
  9. mjdigit

    mjdigit

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Messages:
    4
    So, Coming off of the bans, (lowering the overall speed of the tier) Sun teams are becoming more and more viable, due to grass types with chlorophyll outspeeding most scarfers. In addition, The majority of the defensive threats in the meta are hit super effectively by solar beam (jeccilent, palossand pykumuku slowking, slowbro, toad) , or fire blast (steelix)
    Allowing fire types to have no solid defensive walls against them (except p2, but screw that thing)
    Perfectly allowing sun teams to outspeed and outpower everything; with all of that said, here's a example team that i've been doing well with;
    Show Hide
    Show Hide

    Ninetales @ Heat Rock
    Ability: Drought
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Solar Beam
    - Fire Blast
    - Dark Pulse
    - Calm Mind

    Victreebel @ Life Orb
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Growth
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Solar Beam
    - Weather Ball

    Charizard @ Firium Z
    Ability: Solar Power
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Fire Blast
    - Air Slash
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Sunny Day

    Lilligant @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Quiver Dance
    - Sleep Powder
    - Solar Beam
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Xatu @ Leftovers
    Ability: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Air Slash
    - Roost
    - Night Shade
    - Toxic

    Malamar @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Contrary
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Psycho Cut
    - Knock Off
    - Rock Slide
    - Superpower

    Now, from here on i'd like to explain some decisions with this team, and in addition, some calcs.
    Xatu has quite a wierd set, until you think about what it's designed to do. It's designed to stop things like shuckle, and leavanny, stuff that sets webs. It doesnt need to run any more coverage in particular due to the rest of the team handling it quite nicely.


    Charizard Is a excellent wall breaker, and Z sunny day gives you incredible speed and damaging power, because if they dont OHKO you, you just return a stab solar power sun fire blast, dealing HEAVY damage to nearly everything in the tier.
    Malamar can be used as a wallbreaker on basically any team, and with having two consistant walls to U-turn allows it to flourish, in addition it hits whatever the sun mons cant.

    I perfer two mons with hidden power ice, allowing me to kill the occasional noivern and altaria, allowing some nice coverage for other flying types as well (if needed)
    Onto notable calcs:
    Show Hide
    252+ SpA Solar Power Charizard Inferno Overdrive (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Eviolite Porygon2 in Sun: 364-429 (97.3 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO Just... THIS. kills basically anything in the meta with the z move or solar beam.

    +1 252 SpA Life Orb Lilligant Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cofagrigus: 325-383 (101.5 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO that cant switch in tbh
    252+ SpA Life Orb Victreebel Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 244 HP / 128 SpD Steelix in Sun: 465-549 (132.1 - 155.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Ninetales Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hitmonlee in Sun: 238-281 (98.7 - 116.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

    Just as a finishing note, i wouldnt be suprised if sun got forced up a tier. Anyway, everyone, feel free to take my team as a sample team. It's nice and consistant against everything except hail.
    Iloveweather likes this.
  10. 5FingerMachPunch

    5FingerMachPunch

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2015
    Messages:
    12
    Alright, so I've recently been following NU ever since it went into Alpha (although I didn't actually play much, mostly just kept up with trends that happened in the tier). Now that it's in beta and new tier shifts happened, I wanted to talk about some of the mons that benefit from this shift:

    Dark-types: Let's start with what I think are the true winners of this shift. All of Sableye/Spiritomb/Guzzlord/Drapion/Sneasel appreciate at least one of Yanmega/Pangoro/Slurpuff leaving. They still have to deal with other threats obviously, but those 3 leaving made them a lot more viable in the current meta. Also the fact that Ghost-types (which I will be talking about a bit later in this post) also sort of benefit from this tier shift as well as the drop of Jellicent makes them more potent, and makes Pursuit Trapping more appealing. One Dark-type I do kinda wanna bring light to that I feel has been underappreciated though is Houndoom. It doesn't seem like much on paper, but it can actually take advantage of the current meta. It's blessed with good mixed capabilities, a decent offensive typing in Dark/Fire as well as an ability in Flash Fire which allows it to soft check Sun teams to an extent, and Nasty Plot with the ability to run things like Z-Solarbeam, Z-Fire Blast and Z-Dark Pulse to decimate most switch-ins. This gives it a degree of flexibility when it comes to teambuilding and I truly do think that Houndoom has been underappreciated in NU so far. Ofc, it has bulk problems and it may need to get chip on certain things to guarantee some KOes, but I don't think these should be enough to stop you from at least giving Houndoom a chance. Just a few calcs to show just how potent Houndoom can be:

    calcs (open)

    +2 252 SpA Houndoom Bloom Doom (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 452-534 (115 - 135.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO (AV Slowking would need 248 HP/208+ SpDef to even have a chance at surviving +2 Bloom Doom after rocks which you obviously shouldn't honestly bother with lol)
    +2 252 SpA Houndoom Inferno Overdrive (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 244+ SpD Aromatisse: 420-495 (103.4 - 121.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +2 252 SpA Houndoom Black Hole Eclipse (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Druddigon: 358-423 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +2 252 SpA Houndoom Bloom Doom (190 BP) vs. 192 HP / 0 SpD Kingdra: 384-452 (113.2 - 133.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO


    And yeah, that's pretty much Houndoom in a nutshell. Hopefully you guys will give it a try. Oh yeah, and did I say that it shits on Steelix aka one of the most common mons in the tier atm if it gets in for free? (and ofc provided RNG doesn't fuck you over and make you miss)

    Ribombee: Ribombee has become better due to Yanmega leaving. It was still a good mon when Yanmega was around (since we all know how difficult Specs Ribombee was to handle beforehand), but now it's pretty much the undisputed best Bug in the tier. It can still use Specs to pressure walls in the tier for a teammate to come in and clean up later in the match. However, I think Quiver Dance is still a potent set as well, especially with Fairium Z as Z-Mooblast + Moonblast can KO a lot of typical switch-ins (well, unless you're a Steel-type) after a bit of chip damage. Not much to say about this mon otherwise, really.

    Ghost-types: Pangoro leaving means that Ghost-types are more viable now than they were before, and with Jellicent dropping, there are more bulky spinblockers around in the tier that're viable. Unfortunately, other Dark-types getting more viable with the absence of Pangoro sucks for Ghost-types since they'll now be more prone to getting Pursuit Trapped, but I still think that they'll be able to do decently well since they'll be able to soft-check certain threats such as Fighting-types and Normal-types (with the help of Colbur Berry to take Knock Offs from certain Fighting-types, if you really want to). Cofagrigus provides TR as well TSpikes (if you wanna go down that route ig), Jellicent also provides TR with reliable recovery as well as a good defensive typing, Spiritomb takes advantage of other Ghost-types as well as Psychic-types (which as I'll talk about soon I think actually kinda lose out in this meta atm) and either provides Pursuit trapping utility or sets up with Calm Mind as CroTomb, and lastly Sableye provides Prankster status, being able to get off a Prankster Will-O on something if that mon has set up and is threatening to sweep your team, although the already aforementioned Dark-types will be able to take advantage of poor Sableye due to the Prankster nerf.

    Those imo are some of the mons that benefit from this tier shift. The last thing I kinda wanted to bring up is the fact that despite Yanmega and Pangoro leaving, idt Psychic-types really actually benefit. Infact, I feel that they're worse off (besides maybe Necrozma) in this meta due to what I predict will be the rise of other Dark-types as well as Ghost-types which means the meta will be pretty rough going in for them. That's pretty much all that I wanted to talk about and bring up. Ofc this doesn't mean these are the only mons that benefit from the shifts or lose out in this meta, but they're moreso mons that I kinda noticed right off the bat that seem to fare better in this new meta.
    Iloveweather likes this.
  11. Brawlfest

    Brawlfest I SOUND WEIRD LIKE NIGGA WITH A HARD R
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,240
    Lmao literally Specs Yanmeg, LO Pangoro, and Specs Drag were the biggest reasons why stall was invalidated. With pory still in the tier and the addition of Jellicent imo stall might be p solid now.

    upload_2017-6-8_18-2-16.png
    Raichu-Alola @ Life Orb / Aloraichium Z
    Ability: Surge Surfer
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Thunderbolt
    - Psychic / Psyshock
    - Encore / Focus Blast
    - Nasty Plot

    I've been playing around with Alolan Raichu a lot and its just a super fun mon. Electric / Psychic is pretty damn solid STAB coverage and with 110 speed (by SM NU standards not that high but more than enough to challenge even offensive teams) and some pretty high power after a NP its honestly a monster and can wallbreak pretty fucking easily. Aloraichium Tbolt (Tbh you could run electrium for exact same power cause you're killing whatever you drop it on para wont matter Aloraichium is just cuter lmao) is just scary but tbh LO is better overall. Coverage wise FBlast hits Steelix and Grass/Darks that resist your coverage hard AF but if you have other stuff to cover them imo run Encore just cause it provides Alolan Raichu way more setup opportunities / often gives you the win against shit that otherwise walls you out.
    ______
    upload_2017-6-8_18-11-53.png
    Emboar @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Reckless
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant / Jolly Nature
    - Flare Blitz
    - Superpower / Earthquake
    - Wild Charge
    - Sleep Talk

    Not a unique set but scarf Emboar is honestly one of my fav sets ever. Reckless FB hits so fucking hard that even with CB or shit like that you're pretty much guaranteed to 2HKO everything that isnt physically defensive and resists simultaneously. With Jolly itll run pretty much everything up to 120 speed for its money, and with so many crazy sweepers like Lycanroc, Sceptile, and Dodrio pushing that limit, Emboar can become a really cool suprise to pull from the back and revenge kill with, while also just being amazing for cleaning in the end game and retaining wallbreaking utility.
    ____
    upload_2017-6-8_18-22-1.png
    Whimsicott @ Darkium Z
    Ability: Prankster
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Moonblast
    - Giga Drain
    - Encore
    - Memento

    Darkium Whimsicott is honestly just a super fun option as opposed to its Lefties and Fairy Plate counterparts. You sacrifice U-Turn (so it should be paired with a solid pivot like Mushy or Porygon) but for teams having a prankster Darkium Memento available is not only great as a revenging option for out of controlled setup mons to bring in a counter a full health, or to give a sweeper not only a second chance at life but a guaranteed setup with it. Whimsi is also p much the only usealbe prankster user anymore cause at least it has a STAB to scare away darks but prankster encore is arguably more useful this NU meta than ever before with shit like Ribombee and Lycan running wild, its important to have it as a trump card in your pocket.
    Blast, Punchshroom, tenkai and 6 others like this.
  12. AJB

    AJB
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Messages:
    752
    [​IMG] + [​IMG]
    Sets (open)
    Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 248 HP / 184 Def / 32 SpD / 44 Spe
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Taunt
    - Recover
    - Scald / Hex

    Steelix @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 244 HP / 136 Atk / 128 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Heavy Slam
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic
    Surprised nobody has posted this yet but yeah this core is really solid for bulkier teams as Jelli and Steelix have awesome synergy. Jellicent combats Water- and Fire-types that naturally threaten Lix while conversely Steelix can take on most Electric- and Dark-types that bother Jellicent. This core also shafts scary Normal-types like Melo and Tauros which is cool too. Outside of that Jelli can also spin block for Steelix also which can be pretty handy. The core is defo not unbreakable, though, as lots of threatening Pokes like Virizion, Specs Moltres, both Rotom formes, Eelektross and some others are all capable of breaking through it. Don't expect these 2 to wall the entire metagame, but they are still a rly potent duo.


    [​IMG]
    Lilligant (F) @ Normalium Z
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Giga Drain
    - Sleep Powder
    - Quiver Dance
    - Hyper Beam

    One more thing, I think this will end up being Lilligant's most consistent set (as opposed to Shattered Psyche Dream Eater). +1 Breakneck Blitz still blows through all of the relevant Poison-types (and Skunk + Drapion) with the added benefit of smacking Fire's like Delphox, Moltres, Incineroar etc. Also while Dream Eater is literally useless if your opponent plays its sleep fodder well, +1 Hyper Beam can still be very useful for picking up an extra KO when Giga Drain doesn't cut it. Blitz also wrecks pokes like xatu, sigi, guzzlord (lol) and overall just has superior coverage and utility compared to dream eater.
    Calcs (open)
    +1 252 SpA Lilligant Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garbodor: 342-403 (93.9 - 110.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
    +1 252 SpA Lilligant Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Weezing: 389-458 (116.4 - 137.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +1 252 SpA Lilligant Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 0 HP / 132 SpD Skuntank: 358-422 (103.1 - 121.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +1 252 SpA Lilligant Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Drapion: 368-433 (130.9 - 154%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +1 252 SpA Lilligant Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Golbat: 244-288 (68.9 - 81.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    +1 252 SpA Lilligant Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 64 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Magmortar: 202-238 (65.7 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +1 252 SpA Lilligant Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Delphox: 290-342 (99.3 - 117.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2017
  13. Aladyyn

    Aladyyn

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Messages:
    980
    [​IMG]
    Togetic @ Eviolite
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Defog
    - Roost
    - Encore
    - Seismic Toss

    Togetic is one of the 2 viable defoggers in this tier but it has a hard time fitting on more offensive teams because of how much momentum it loses (rip drypass) and can be setup bait for tons of stuff. Encore really helps alleviate these problems and often lets you get off a mostly-free Defog. Golbat is still generally better for most teams imo, but there are definitely merits to Togetic even if you don't require the usual cleric support from it.


    [​IMG]
    Seismitoad @ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 212 HP / 188 SpA / 108 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Hydro Pump
    - Earth Power
    - Substitute
    - Toxic

    With the departure of the tier's strongest wallbreakers, people are starting to use more bulky teams and boy does SubTox Toad have a field day with most of them. Steelix is still everywhere and gives you a free sub, the most common bulky water types either get supremely crippled by Toxic (Slowking, Seismitoad) or straight up have to give up any hope of fighting this set (Vaporeon). Of course this set has its issues, such as being bait for Virizion but I'm sure you can handle that with the rest of your team (I can't, but I trust you to be better). The spread is super customizable, I like having as much power as possible so I like SpAtk investment + Hydro but if you hate missing Scald is fine and if you feel like you don't need that much speed then you probably don't.


    [​IMG]

    Jynx @ Normalium Z
    Ability: Dry Skin
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Lovely Kiss
    - Ice Beam
    - Psychic
    - Nasty Plot

    Not sure if Z-Lovely Kiss has been discussed but it's a cute set regardless. Increasing Jynx's speed while doing something that you already want to be doing with this mon is just great. Speed kills in this gen's NU and having a Jynx at +1 that can switch moves is straight up terrifying (just ask any BW2 player how they feel about that concept!). Nasty Plot allows you to punch holes through slower teams in the early game and also gives you an extra oomph for the late game cleanups. Previously, Jynx could generally only perform one of those jobs but this set can do both. All you need to do is trap Slowking and you're good to go.

    [​IMG]
    Sneasel @ Eviolite
    Ability: Inner Focus
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Knock Off
    - Icicle Crash
    - Ice Shard

    I'm still not sure just how viable this set is but I think it's definitely been underexplored ever since ORAS. Sneasel forces a lot of preservation switches so finding space to SD is not that hard, though sometimes you get bopped because people do the weirdest things when presented with a Sneasel decision (I've had numerous people try to set up CMs with their Slowbro in my Sneasel's face). Losing Pursuit obviously hurts but the payoff is better late-game sweeping, surprise/lure factor (people thinking you're Banded and locked into Knock Off as you proceed to Icicle Crash their Virizion), and actual passable bulk that lets you survive even some neutral hits.

    [​IMG]
    I don't have a specific set I would recommend for Golduck, but as long as Drought is a thing, I think this mon is actually viable. I've been using Scarf with some decent results, even though you're probably forced to run Modest since this thing is so weak lol. 3 attacks + utility move sounds pretty sweet too, probably with a boosting item, maybe Sub+utility+2 attacks or w/e, Golduck has a solid movepool with plenty of options and it's probably the best one-mon Sun check we have. Pure Water typing is great so it's plenty splashable too.
    MARCU5theBAW5, eht, erisia and 6 others like this.
  14. Shadestep

    Shadestep i don't believe in tomorrow
    is a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2015
    Messages:
    1,339
    That Jynx set is really interesting Aladyyn. I played some battles vs friends with it this morning and got some decent results. Lovely Kiss is Lovely Kiss as always, and the accuracy is still there. However, the good thing is that even is Lovely Kiss misses, you'll still get +1 Speed which can be absolutely crucial late game. I dont have replays unfortunately because they weren't saved but I do have the paste of the team I used it on, so y'all can use it yourself. Here is the import:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Show Hide
    thrive so far (Jynx) @ Normalium Z
    Ability: Dry Skin
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Psychic
    - Ice Beam
    - Nasty Plot
    - Lovely Kiss

    been so long (Garbodor) @ Poisonium Z
    Ability: Aftermath
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Gunk Shot
    - Seed Bomb
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Spikes

    sixteen (Hitmontop) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
    Impish Nature
    - Rapid Spin
    - Close Combat
    - Toxic
    - Foresight

    oh devil (Steelix) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
    Careful Nature
    - Heavy Slam
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic
    - Stealth Rock

    light up (Pyroar) (F) @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Unnerve
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Fire Blast
    - Flamethrower
    - Hyper Voice
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    the driver (Slowking) @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Bold Nature
    - Scald
    - Fire Blast
    - Ice Beam
    - Dragon Tail


    Anyways, besides Jynx, I've been trying out some other cool sets with relative success, both on the ladder and in Challenge Matches vs friends. Here are some unusual sets I used, with a short explanation alongside it.

    [​IMG]
    light up (Pyroar) (F) @ Grassium Z
    Ability: Unnerve
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Fire Blast
    - Hyper Voice
    - Solar Beam
    - Taunt / Will-O-Wisp

    not the most original set ever, but hey, it works. Haven't seen anyone else use Pyroar yet so people often just assume its flame plate / specs when you first swap it in. Taunt is really useful to beat Porygon2, so I'd most often use that as it also helps you deal with various set-up mons and preventing hazards etc. Wisp has its uses and is also very good, but its a bit team dependant honestly.

    [​IMG]
    been so long (Garbodor) @ Poisonium Z
    Ability: Aftermath
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Gunk Shot
    - Explosion / Seed Bomb
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Spikes
    offensive Garbodor is absolutely great in luring in hazard control pokes that could normally easy swap into it. a great example of this is Xatu, you OHKO them most of the time I think, and if not, you can just finish it up with another Gunk Shot or a Seed Bomb even, if its really low. Explosion is great here because it blocks spin from hitmontop (which btw also takes a million from acid downpour). overall it's just a really solid move AND you cant get knocked off which is sick.


    overall I really like this meta after playing it quite a bit now, but i would really say ban porygon2 as soon as possible. I dont know who originally said it but porygon2 really does slow down meta development quite a bit as it invalidates so many otherwise (probably) good sets on Pokemon that are unable to break through porygon2. it's a really good and fun pokemon and yes it is countered / checked pretty easily by toxic on random pokes but it's really just quite an unhealthy mon for the tier, and i'd say the tier is better off without it.
    Mindnight, Eclipse, Blast and 21 others like this.
  15. HJAD

    HJAD
    is an official Team Rateris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2013
    Messages:
    899
    wassup, since beta dropped I haven't built anything too good, but instead created a few interesting sets which can fill some niche roles in certain teams:
    something that I've observed is that actually not much in the tier thats really good at the moment gets good recovery, which means outlasting your opponent becomes more so down to the player than anything, but with these sets i feel like it can add longevity to certain teams given the correct offensive support.
    [​IMG]
    Defensive Defog Swanna
    set (open)


    Swanna @ Leftovers
    Ability: Big Pecks
    EVs: 248 HP / 228 Def / 32 Spe
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Hurricane
    - Scald
    - Defog
    - Roost

    Max defense with enough speed to outspeed Adamant Samurott


    A set inspired from last generation PU, Swanna has good all round stats, but I've found a defensive set in particular being an excellent defogger. What sets it apart from Golbat is that it actually beats the Stealth Rockers in the tier, the most prominent being Steelix, and maintains hazards control vs Spikers such as Qwilfish, Garbodor, and can defog in a pinch against the unpopular Ferroseed. I found this personally to be one of the more reliable hazards control in the tier, especially when your team is dependent on keeping hazards off the field (you might have a bird spam core, charizard, moltres, etc), mainly because it's excellent typing suits the meta right now like a glove. In my opinion, it's probably better than Golbat if your only desire is to keep hazards off the field.

    [​IMG]
    Nasty Plot Mixed Defenses Beheeyem w/ Bug Z

    set (open)


    Beheeyem @ Buginium Z
    Ability: Analytic
    EVs: 248 HP / 172 Def / 28 SpA / 60 SpD
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk / 10 Spe
    - Nasty Plot
    - Psychic
    - Signal Beam
    - Recover



    This is a fun set if any of y'all need a Dark Lure / Steelix lure. It, again, was inspired by my PU ventures last year, and I feel like this set really abuses the movement towards Dark Types in order to deal with the much scarier Necrozma. The spread is quite quirky, the 28 Special Attack is enough to gurantee the ohko on spiritomb, with +2 savage spin out, the defense is enough to eat every relevant knock off from any dark type (shiftry, drapion, sableye twice, scrafty, liepard), eat 2 heavy slams from 136 adamant steelix (not after rocks though) and also enough to eat black glasses sucker punch from both skuntank, and spiritomb itself. The rest is invested in special defense, since this thing mainly baits special attackers rather than physical. Special Defense is enough to eat a few assorted hits, specs exploud after rocks, 20% chance to eat life orb dpulse from houndoom after rocks, and get that really big hit off. You would also notice the quirky speed IV's this is to make sure you outslow both Spiritomb and Steelix and make sure you 2hko steelix with +2 analytic psychic, and ohko tomb with +2 savage spin out. Overall, this set I've found is quite effective in the matchups you play in the current meta, dark types are everywhere, steelix is everywhere, passive settup bait such as p2 and slowking is everywhere. This set definately isn't "good" in the traditional defintion, but its a solid anti-meta pick for anyone with a need to lure dark types.


    edit: is noone also gonna mention how malamar is a savage in this meta? ghost types can be picked off with the plethora of other dark types, and i think it is definately one of the better mons in the meta at the moment. bug types, and psychic types running signal are literally at an all time low
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
    Mindnight, Raseri, Eternally and 22 others like this.
  16. ChrystalFalchion

    ChrystalFalchion
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2015
    Messages:
    1,481
    Thank you im glad someone finally mentioned Malamar. I used a set with Z Happy Hour in the Alpha and it was a beast late game (Z moves ignore abilities so it doesn't give you -1 to all stats). Can't post an importable from my phone but it ran max speed max attack jolly nature and the moves Happy Hour Superpower Knock Off and Psycho Cut.
  17. CandyKong

    CandyKong

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2017
    Messages:
    1
    Can we talk about how ridiculous Ursaring could be on trick room teams. It could be a really solid sweeping pokemon. His defenses are not great but he is able to tank at least one hit usually. And, his bad speed is fixed with trick room. As you can see in the calcs he one hit KO's pretty much everything as long as stealth rocks are up. And anyhting that he has to 2 hit KO can't 2 Hit KO him. I haven't really seen this used in the ladder at all and I think it is a super powerful threat.

    [​IMG]
    Ursaring the Undertaker
    Show Hide

    Ursaring @ Flame Orb
    Ability: Guts
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - Facade
    - Close Combat
    - Crunch
    - Taunt

    Some Calcs
    Show Hide

    252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Garbodor: 322-381 (88.4 - 104.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Close Combat vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 314-370 (92 - 108.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 92 Def Slowking: 406-478 (103.3 - 121.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 325-384 (78.5 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Close Combat vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 234-276 (66.4 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Eviolite Togetic: 285-336 (91 - 107.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Moltres: 409-483 (127.4 - 150.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Crunch vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Jellicent: 268-316 (66.5 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 204 HP / 248+ Def Vaporeon: 372-438 (82.3 - 96.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
    Holiday, HJAD and erisia like this.
  18. PursuitOfHappiny

    PursuitOfHappiny

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2015
    Messages:
    294
    [​IMG]
    Dodrio @ Choice Band
    Ability: Early Bird
    Happiness: 0
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Frustration
    - Jump Kick
    - Quick Attack / Knock Off / Pursuit

    Wanted to test this mon a bit as i feel not many people gave their opinion about it. People often run Steelix as their only Normal/Flying check and since it's pretty easy to wear down, Dodrio can have some fun. What i like about Dodrio is that you can use it to deal heavy damage early-midgame but you can also use it as a cleaner due to its speed and stab priority. Jump Kick gives you a way to damage Steelix and idk Tyrantrum. Knock Off is also very interesting to deal with mons like Jellicent and Cofagrigus and gives it an edge over Braviary. Pursuit can be used cause Dodrio forces quite a lot of switches. Unfortunately it can still struggle with some physically bulky mons like Slowbro and Necrozma. Overall a cool mon and definitely worth trying.

    calcs (open)

    252 Atk Choice Band Dodrio Jump Kick vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 158-188 (44.8 - 53.4%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Choice Band Dodrio Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 226-267 (54.5 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Choice Band Dodrio Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tyrantrum: 250-296 (81.9 - 97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Choice Band Dodrio Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 212+ Def Jellicent: 266-314 (66 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Choice Band Dodrio Brave Bird vs. 204 HP / 248+ Def Vaporeon: 258-304 (57 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Choice Band Dodrio Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 20+ Def Uxie: 186-220 (52.5 - 62.1%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
  19. Rapture

    Rapture formerly Shadowtags
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2014
    Messages:
    693
    Gonna drop some sets I think will be effective after the first round of quickbans

    [​IMG]
    Skuntank @ Firium Z
    Ability: Aftermath
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Fire Blast
    - Dark Pulse
    - Acid Spray
    - Defog
    Didn't create the set but thought it was worth bringing up after hearing about it in the NU room. While this struggles with the more offensive pace of the meta rn, once the tier settles down I can see this thing putting in a lot of work with the Jellicent drop. Fire/Dark/Poison harasses a majority of balance cores and mainly takes advantage of people spamming Jelli and Steelix to wall everything. Firium Z helps to ensure you ohko lix and deny the opponent the opportunity to dodge.

    [​IMG]
    $$$ (Sceptile) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Overgrow
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Leaf Storm
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Flying]
    - Focus Blast
    Been using sceptile on a majority of the teams I've made thus far and really consider it underated rn, while some new checks like Golbat have surfaced since ORAS, Leaf Storm + Focus Blast are tough moves for most teams to handle while its speed tier means it isn't slacking in the offense matchup. Hidden Power moveslot can be any coverage but I find Virizion threatening versus most of my squads so I use that to bop it for a clean 60%, also hits emboar for a respectable amount. Can see this being banworthy again a couple months down the road due to the power and versatility it has over other sm speed demons like Bee and Noivern.

    Overall while laddering and destroying people in friendlies has proved entertaining, can't say I'm a big fan of the meta atm, Using Offense and Balance both feel like a crapshoot due to covering every mon running around near impossible. Haven't played much stall but that still seems as unreliable as last gen from seeing the euro's ladder with it. The new tier has potential though and it's been refreshing to see people talking in the PS room and posting again. Here's to a gr8 generation of NU! ^o^
  20. wishes

    wishes unfezant unfezants!!!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

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    Messages:
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    [​IMG]
    nails (Spiritomb) @ Dread Plate
    Ability: Infiltrator
    EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Pursuit
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Sucker Punch

    spiritomb is an excellent check to the prominent psychic-types (think sigilyph, slowking, basically all of the others) and it's such an awesome glue to hold teams together. also, it takes out psychic-types reliably thanks to pursuit and that helps partners like delphox, virizion, etc that love psychic-types being removed in order to bring their big guns. been running it alongside spikes, and stopping hitmonlee/psychic-types cold is great to block rapid spin and help your team out! from the few battles i've had, spiritomb's always been able to pull its weight and i see it as an immense threat in the metagame that will continue to rise in prominence. hopefully new, unique sets are discovered to capitalize on spiritomb's uniqueness and versatility! give it a try!
  21. Jarii

    Jarii formerly boring

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2015
    Messages:
    657
    [​IMG]
    Tauros @ Normalium Z
    Ability: Sheer Force
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly / Naive Nature
    - Body Slam
    - Earthquake
    - Zen Headbutt / Fire Blast
    - Work Up

    Wanted to see if Tauros was still as threatening as it was in ORAS NU, while it's not as dominant as it was in ORAS it's still something to watch out for. Z-Work Up give you instead 1+ in both Atk and SpA, 2+ in Atk and 1+ in SpA. Which makes up for the Life Orb you get rid off. You'll be surprised by how many times you're able to set up with Tauros. Its natural bulk lets you set up on bulkier mons, and the offensive mons that don't outspeed Tauros switch 9 out of 10 times anyway. You can also just nuke something with Breakneck Blitz if it's needed, overall this set works little differently then the Life Orb set since you hit less of course but you are able to sweep pretty easy when the bulkier mons are weakened. The last 2 moves come down to hitting Poison types and Fighting types with Zen Headbutt, or Fire Blast for Ferroseed and Bronzor.

    calcs (open)

    +2 252 Atk Tauros Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 198-234 (56.2 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Tauros Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 130-153 (36.9 - 43.4%) -- 98.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    +2 252 Atk Sheer Force Tauros Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Golbat: 181-214 (51.1 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Golbat: 118-140 (33.3 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    +2 252 Atk Sheer Force Tauros Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 120 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 195-229 (52.1 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 120 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 126-149 (33.6 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    +2 252 Atk Sheer Force Tauros Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 262-309 (63.2 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 172-203 (41.5 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    +2 252 Atk Sheer Force Tauros Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Necrozma: 216-255 (54.2 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Necrozma: 142-168 (35.6 - 42.2%) -- 86.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

    [​IMG]
    Kadabra @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Psychic
    - Dazzling Gleam
    - Thunder Wave / Encore / Shadow Ball
    - Counter

    Kadabra has gotten a buff this gen, you are able to use Counter with Magic Guard; which means you can maintain your Sash with Stealth Rocks up which is amazing! This set helped me so many times in OHKOing Shell Smashers at +2/+2 and Scarfers like Tyrantrum, it also works vs bulkier mons like Steelix that normally love to switch in to kadabra, instead you can counter it and finish up with Psychic. It works also on random Knock Off users like Seismitoad etc. Overall this set is better then it looks on paper I seriously suggest you try it out!

    Overall I really like SM NU and I hope it only becomes better! But ban Porygon 2.
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2017
  22. Eternally

    Eternally duck for cover
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    578
    Having lots of fun in beta, here are a couple sets that have been working well for me:

    [​IMG]
    Granbull @ Normalium Z
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
    Impish Nature
    - Play Rough
    - Heal Bell
    - Earthquake
    - Thunder Wave

    Granbull is great right now, with almost every team having Fighting-types like Virizion, Sawk, Medicham, and Hitmonlee and Dark-type partners like Sneasel and Spiritomb which can be difficult to deal with. Normalium Z Heal Bell is basically a one time Rest without falling asleep, and really improves Granbull's longevity throughout games (also lets you act as a knock off absorber which is always good). Fairy/Ground coverage hits a good chunk of the meta neutrally, and stops you from being dead weight against Steelix, while TWave is just there to annoy faster mons for the rest of your team to take advantage of.

    [​IMG]
    Machamp @ Flame Orb
    Ability: Guts
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Knock Off
    - Facade
    - Close Combat
    - Bullet Punch

    I tried this set out after I saw rozes and Evann using it, and it's ridiculously good, easily the best Machamp set rn. A guts boosted Facade does crazy things like 2HKOing physdef Necrozma and Z-Slowbro after rocks. CC obliterates basically anything that doesn't resist it, while Knock Off clears away any Ghost-types. Bullet Punch in particular is really useful for cleaning up late game, KOing Sneasel and Ribombee after rocks, and doing substantial damage to most frail targets. Overall, a really dangerous set and especially detrimental to the bulky P2 teams which are all over the ladder atm.

    ------------

    After playing a lot of Beta, I can safely say that while its really fun, some key threat stick out as a little too dominating atm. Porygon-2 in particular is extremely centralizing and warps building in a way which can invalidate a lot of Special attackers. I've even found myself using stuff like Knock Off Accelgor, and Knock Off Whimsicott just to lure in P2 and make it more manageable to deal with. Noivern and Ribombee have also caught my attention due to their combination of insane speed, great coverage, and impressive power, which makes them very difficult to prepare for when building Offense (which explains why P2 and Steelix Offense are so popular rn). Overall, really looking forward to see how NU progresses as a tier, and hopefully everyone else is enjoying it too.
    Skyzuma, SwampertGuru, Blast and 14 others like this.
  23. Blast

    Blast more man than a horse
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    1,666
    [​IMG]

    Combusken @ Electrium Z
    Ability: Speed Boost
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Flare Blitz
    - Low Kick
    - Thunder Punch

    With both Dragalge and Yanmega gone Combusken has a chance to shine again. +2 Gigavolt Havoc blows past Moltres, Jellicent, Qwilfish, and Slowking, and kills Slowbro after 2 layers of hazards. Setting up can be a bit tricky at times because of no Eviolite but everyone always assumes special chicken so you can usually scare targets out to boost. Main problem is bulky Psychic-types and Seismitoad so Spikes and Pursuit support always comes in handy; Seed Bomb Garbo in particular is :ok_hand:

    [​IMG]

    Guzzlord @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Beast Boost
    EVs: 252 SpA / 196 Spe / 60 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Dark Pulse
    - Fire Blast
    - Sludge Bomb

    I've been semi-joking about this set a lot but after using it I actually do like it. This thing's been getting a pretty bad rep lately for having an overly awkward stat distribution but I think this is the best way to make use of Guzzlord's unique traits. I really don't like the AV set because I think if you want an AV mon that can check Fire- and Water-types, Slowking's Regenerator is way too good to pass up, but this a good set for bulky offense teams that need a tanky hole puncher to switch in once or twice and drop nukes. Pretty niche mon but fun

    [​IMG]

    Rhydon @ Eviolite
    Ability: Lightning Rod
    EVs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 240 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rock Blast
    - Earthquake
    - Roar

    Staple from last gen but man this thing's seriously flown under the radar when compared to Steelix. Obviously Steelix is used a ton as it's one of the only decent Steel-types in the tier, but the meta has adapted so well to it that it's just way too easily exploited for my tastes. Rhydon is pretty easy to chip away too, but the main thing it has going for it is power; it can do notably larger chunks of damage to its switchins between turns. I like using Roar in the last slot because of how often I pair this up with Spikes but it can be anything you want really.

    Anyway if it wasn't clear enough already, hazards are really dominant right now. Either a fast-paced Spikes team or some kind of Speed-centric offense like weather, Trick Room, or Sticky Web are basically the only playstyles that are relatively consistent in this meta. Ironically compared to last gen, I think balance is probably the worst playstyle at the moment; I've tried several different builds and it's just not feasible to check everything (or even most of everything) with a 3-4 mon defensive core. I even consider stall better than balance since at least stall has a full 6 slots to stack up on fat mons. I'd say for now the closest you can get to a good balance team is an aggressively-played bulky offense with something like Garbodor; otherwise I'd just wait until the first wave of quickbans is through.
  24. Ztstaffo

    Ztstaffo

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2013
    Messages:
    88
    Some more underrated pokemon


    [​IMG]
    Toxicroak (M) @ Darkinium Z
    Ability: Dry Skin
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Sucker Punch
    - Drain Punch
    - Gunk Shot
    This is probably my favorite thing right now, and since its z-move variant was only vaguely mentioned and i feel like its underplayed I'm just giving it a shoutout. Darkinium Z toxicroak is a great lure for bulky psychic and ghost types that try to switch into it. With Jellicent in the tier now, toxicroak can actually take advantage of the switch in with Black Hole Eclipse, getting the ohko. Black Hole Eclipse also nails slowbro, slowking, cofagrigus, gourgeist, and i'm probably missing one.

    +2 252+ Atk Toxicroak Black Hole Eclipse vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 398-470 (101 - 119.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    +2 252+ Atk Toxicroak Black Hole Eclipse vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 322-380 (100.6 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    +2 252+ Atk Toxicroak Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 364-430 (97.3 - 114.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

    As you can see, the Adamant nature is necessary in order to get the KOs you want. I've found this toxicroak variant to be amazing as a member of a fighting spam core. I've been using Hitmonlee with it, but i'm sure there are some other fighting types that work too!


    [​IMG]
    Barbaracle (M) @ Shuca Berry
    Ability: Tough Claws
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Shell Smash
    - Razor Shell
    - Return
    - Earthquake
    This pokemon is criminally underplayed, and you guys need to go out in this world and use it. If you do, use this set please, the z move sets are for the most part pretty bad and shuca berry lets you set up so easy. When I say it lets you set up easy, i mean you can set up on steelix if you've broke its sturdy already. Steelix has 26.7% usage or something like that so that's pretty convenient! You also can set up on pokemon with weaksauce offense and normal types. Beware of setting up on birds, they vicious and have fighting attacks...

    Return may seem weird but trust me it is the best neutral coverage that you can use and it gets crucial KOs thanks to tough claws. Earthquake is there to hit Garbodor without cringing at Aftermath. Adamant is the best way to go or else you won't ohko even some offensive pokemon.

    Last thoughts on this pokemon: Don't try to sweep until you know choice scarf users are gone, and don't try to sweep when porygon, seismitoad, and other fatmons like that are at full health. Overall Barbaracle is great to play with if you know how to use it!
    HJAD, Allstar and erisia like this.
  25. Rwby

    Rwby formerly Yogibears

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2014
    Messages:
    342
    Hey all!

    I've finally been playing NU (because Alpha was eww) and even though there are an insane number of crazy mons, it's definitely a fun tier n_n
    I wanted to share some really neat sets I've been using and even if they're slightly memey they've been working well enough for me :3

    [​IMG]
    Calm Mind Sub Uxie (open)

    Uxie @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 52 Def / 148 SpA / 60 Spe
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Dazzling Gleam
    - Calm Mind
    - Psychic
    - Substitute

    This thing is actually really, really good... Like, super good... Even though there are a lot of dark types running around and the fact that Lix is quite literally on 50% of all teams this monster still gets a chance to set-up more than once in a game, and once it gets going it's extremely difficult to stop. The fact that it uses things like P2 and AV Slowking as bait makes it threatening to balance and BO once Lix is gone. The speed evs allow it to creep positive base 60's and not gonna lie, I forgot what the SpA and Def evs do, but they do something ;~;

    [​IMG]
    Magic Coat Cryo (open)

    Cryogonal @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 Spe
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Recover
    - Magic Coat
    - Toxic/Ice Beam/Freeze-Dry
    - Rapid Spin

    Okay remember what I said about kinda memey sets, well this is one of them. Cryo is an extremely good spinner at the moment due to the buff it got in SM and is overall a really solid pivot, but one thing that annoyed me was that it gave rockers free rocks due to it being forced out or it traded toxic with things like P2. Magic Coat fixes that so well, allowing you to bounce hazards and status back is honestly insane and if your opponent doesn't know the surprise factor is neat (ask Blast :3).

    [​IMG]
    Choice Band Gumshoos (open)

    Gumshoos @ Choice Band
    Ability: Stakeout
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Return
    - Earthquake
    - Crunch
    - U-turn

    Okay so when we were in pre-pre alpha, I remember this mon being brought up a lot and I always shot it down as being useless and bad. Whilst it's not a great mon, it can destroy teams if used with webs, trick room or a team that forces switches via momentum moves. If your opponent switches, something dies or is 2hko'd...
    252 Atk Choice Band Gumshoos Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 258-304 (80.6 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Choice Band Gumshoos Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 316-372 (89.7 - 105.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
    252 Atk Choice Band Gumshoos Crunch vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Jellicent: 432-510 (107.1 - 126.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 Atk Choice Band Gumshoos Return vs. 252 HP / 120 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 283-334 (75.6 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nubeta-588530917

    [​IMG]
    Trapinch (open)

    Trapinch @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Arena Trap
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - Earthquake
    - Superpower
    - Rock Slide
    - Crunch

    ~~Or~~

    Trapinch @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Arena Trap
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Superpower
    - Rock Slide
    - Crunch

    Omg this thing is actually lit! I used this during the end of ORAS as a way to trap problematic mons so that I could set up with something like SD Zard, and it works nicely. Whilst it does require support it seriously can put in work when played well. In terms of the two sets, the first has an amazing TR match-up, and the second outspeeds Lix and Don.

    I know that this post wasn't very in-depth but I just wanted to share some (not all :3) of my new sets that I've been using n_n
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2017
    Eternally, Eden., HJAD and 7 others like this.

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