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Metagame np: SM PU Stage 0 (Beta): Medieval [Vanilluxe and Tauros Banned]

Discussion in 'PU' started by galbia, Aug 6, 2017.

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  1. Broken Phobias

    Broken Phobias

    Joined:
    May 25, 2015
    Messages:
    463
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Set (open)

    Lilligant @ Psychium Z
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Sleep Powder
    - Giga Drain
    - Dream Eater
    - Quiver Dance


    So this is the Lilligant set I've been using recently and I gotta say that I really adore it. Shattered Psychic is wonderful move to hit Poison-types and the best part is is that it takes away that Life Orb recoil which I really don't like. Lilligant is able to cleanly sweep teams in the late game once a majority of its checks are gone as well as put immense pressure on the opposing team. One of the best things about this set is the terrific predictions you an make. If your opponent predicts a Sleep Powder and brings in a Pokemon and you Quiver Danced, You can almost always Punish them with your Z-move unless of course they brought in Shiftry. All in all Lilligant is a really solid Pokemon in my eyes and is a Stable for any team that needs a sweeper.


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Set (open)

    De PU Blob (Type: Null) @ Eviolite
    Ability: Battle Armor
    Shiny: Yes
    Happiness: 0
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
    Careful Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Frustration
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk


    Type: Null is probably one of my least Favorite Pokemon to go up against and no I'm not talking about that garbage Toxic Turn Rest Talk set that I see so very often. I'm talking about the SD Frustration set that cleans once every Ghost-type is gone. This thing is a monster and the only thing stopping it is Ghost-types and BS Blizzard freezes that Vanilluxe pulls off all the time. The reason this thing is so good is because of its great stats and use of the Item Eviolite making its Defense Stats into the 300s. I think People should definitely start using and prepping for this Pokemon. One of the best ways to Prep is just bring a Golurk with Dynamic Punch as it completely stops Type: Null from doing anything and it gets 2HKO'd by Dynamic Punch.
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2017
    Bloodedge, Tuthur1, Ares and 9 others like this.
  2. Good J

    Good J

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2017
    Messages:
    7
    A mon that doesnt get used very much like before is charizard.
    [​IMG]
    Charizard is such a versatile mon and can often wreak havoc on teams that underestimate it. Its dominate enough that charizard can viably run physical and special sets making it unpredictable. Swapping in lanturn on zard could cost you considering charizard gets and sometimes runs earthquake.
    252 Atk Charizard Earthquake vs. 128 HP / 128 Def Lanturn: 208-246 (49.1 - 58.1%) -- 59.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    Charizard can also run Z celebrate which can often sweep teams if used efficiently. Z celebrate allows Zard to out speed mons that would usually blow it away such as Tauros, Alolan raichu and scarf Primeape. It doesnt even stop there, giving Charizard choice specs allows it to hit like a truck scaring anything thats not a bulky water.

    Dragon dance set.
    text (open)


    Charizard @ Life Orb
    Ability: Blaze
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Roost
    - Flare Blitz
    - Earthquake



    Z celebrate set

    text (open)


    Charizard @ Normalium Z
    Ability: Blaze
    EVs: 252 Spa / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly hasty
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Celebrate
    - Fire Blast
    - Air slash/focus blast/hidden power grass
    - Earthquake



    Choice specs set

    text (open)


    Charizard @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Blaze
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Fire Blast
    - Air Slash
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Flamethrower




    Thank you for bringing that to my attention, it was a mistake i made during the post and somehow didnt notice it, but i edited it and its now the correct evs for each of the sets. Somethings i didnt mention is Charizard can also run Z sunny day, but with heat rock and plenty of sunny day users its probably doesnt need to. Grassium Z solar beam is also very common on charizard and although i dont recommend it, its always good to watch out for it when running a bulky water/rock type.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2017
    drumstick and BPGXMG like this.
  3. Anty

    Anty the dirt in your fries
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus
    PU Co-Leader

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    I still dont know why I have to post this in every thread but NO ONE LINERS.

    Next one will be infracted, use VMs (profile posts) for small changes like correcting EVs, or if you are posting about something then you need more than just 1 line/a few sentences to describe it.
  4. Good J

    Good J

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2017
    Messages:
    7
    Im here today to talk about a mon that has blown me away in how underrated it actually is, and as you probably see below that mon is Sawsbuck.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Sawsbuck is a mon with great coverage and speed making it a good revenge killer and power house in general. Base 100 attack isnt too shabby along with strong moves like jump kick, double edge, horn leech and megahorn. It can stop threats in the tier such as Liligant with sleep powder, and if you dont know already, Sawsbuck gets the ability sap sipper, which raises its attack when hit with a grass move. Making it a great counter to Liligant as the calcs will show below.
    If your opponet predicts your swap into Sawsbuck with hidden power fire or ice Sawsbuck will still take the hit fairly well. Sawsbuck also out speeds threats in the tier such as Zangoose, Shiftry and Stoutland hitting them with jump kick for a kill.


    Calcs


    text (open)


    252 Atk Life Orb Sawsbuck Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lilligant: 270-320 (96 - 113.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

    +1 252 Atk Life Orb Sawsbuck Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lilligant: 403-476 (143.4 - 169.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 SpA Lilligant Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Sawsbuck: 156-184 (51.8 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO




    Replays from showdown

    text (open)


    The Sawsbuck set i run

    text (open)


    Sawsbuck-Winter (F) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Sap Sipper
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Megahorn
    - Horn Leech
    - Jump Kick
    - Double-Edge



    I hope you enjoyed my post for the 3 people that actually read it.
  5. Broken Phobias

    Broken Phobias

    Joined:
    May 25, 2015
    Messages:
    463
    Sub Punch Poliwrath: Gen 1 Allstar

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    set (open)

    Poliwrath (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 144 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Substitute
    - Focus Punch
    - Waterfall
    - Encore / Toxic


    Shit I'm going to talk about (open)

    Poliwrath is honestly one of my all time Gen 1 favorites and I'm happy I can use it here. Unfortunately my favorite Pokemon Golduck isn't as good smh. Water-types are my fav
    -
    This Poliwrath set is probably my favorite of the ones shown because it can put in a ton of work. I really enjoy using this set on Balance teams because it complements any fire Weakness perfectly from my opinion. Sub Punch threatens a ton of Pokemon and can Easily OHKO or 2HKO pokemon Trying to Switch-In such as Swanna. Another thing to note is that Encore and Toxic can both force Switches in order for Poliwrath to get a free Substitute or Focus Punch in. Encore forces switches however more often the Toxic does. Personally one of my favorite Pokemon to Pair this Poliwrath with is a Heal Bell Pokemon just it can stay healthy. I've been more so Using Heal Bell Lanturn to act as some role compression for my team. Please enjoy this great set!


    Weezing the GOAT
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Set (open)

    Weezing @ Black Sludge / Icium-Z
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
    Bold Nature
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Taunt / Pain Split / Haze


    Describtion and what not (open)

    Weezing is one of the best Pokemon in the tier right now in my eyes thanks to its access to Toxic Spikes and great Bulky stats. Weezing is not only great for these reasons however. Weezing is great because of its expansive move pool and what it can run depending on what its role is on each team. Not to mention a decent amount of current Wall breakers like Tauros and Kangaskhan love having Weezing on their team. Other than that there isn't much to say about this set other than it is great for crippling prominent Offensive attackers besides Gurdurr obviously.


    Here are some Options that Weezing can run if you really want to Deviate from the Standard Weezing Set:

    • Flamethrower can be used over Sludge Bomb or Will-O-Wisp to catch opposing Ferroseed off guard.

    • Toxic may replace Toxic Spikes in order to cripple bulkier set up sweepers such as Musharna, Carracosta, and Drampa instead of setting up two layers of Toxic Spikes.

    • When paired with frail set up sweepers, Momento can be used to gain momentum and give these sweepers a chance to set up without being threatened as much.

    • Due to Weezing’s expansive movepool, an offensive set can be run with the item Life Orb or a Z-Crystal and the moves Sludge Bomb, Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, and Pain Split, Explosion, or Momento.

    • Weezing’s Speed EVs are quite customizable depending on what your team is weak to you may want to change your EVs to outspeed that target. For example Weezing can run 190 Speed Evs to outspeed and cripple Shell Smash Carracosta
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2017
  6. galbia

    galbia be the freak you want to see just don't follow me
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    PU Co-Leader

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  7. SergioRules

    SergioRules

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    As usual I guess I'll give my opinions on the bans, but this time I don't feel like rating all the mons that were on the slate.
    [​IMG]
    Ice cream was definitely a huge wallbreaker. While speed wasn't the best, it was good enough to use a scarf or even use on a webs team. It was even good enough to use normally when facing slower teams. I never really saw this thing as a problem until after Hariyama's ban as the AV set beat it with no issue. The powerful and accurate Blizzards that this thing can throw off even made me make an Ice Spam team. If we hadn't banned yama, I don't think this would've been as broken as it is.

    [​IMG]
    Raging bull was good with two sets imo. The standard Sheer Force wallbreaker set and the choice scarf set. The wallbreaker set was extremely hard to switch into unless you had something like Regirock or defensive Carracosta and otherwise it could just plow through teams. Sure it was okay to rk with all the Mach Punches and fast mons we have in the tier, but that still means sacking something. The scarf set was also really in my eyes as it could literally function in your last slot in a 6-1 match and still pull a win if the other team had been weakened enough for its STAB Return/Double Edge to clean. I loved using it and I'm sad to see it go, but I also think it was deserved.
    Aaronboyer, Axia, drumstick and 3 others like this.
  8. Twix

    Twix chill out
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    Yeah ab to drop some Kangaskhan heat because i've been liking it a lot.

    [​IMG]
    Kangaskhan @ Leftovers
    Ability: Early Bird
    EVs: 168 HP / 252 Def / 88 Spe
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Whirlpool
    - Rest
    - Seismic Toss
    - Toxic

    This is a really cool set that iRebel tried to use about a month ago and that Shaneghoul helped me make today. Essentially, it lures in annoying normal checks such as Carracosta, Miltank, and Regirock and basically anything that can't 3HKO it by trapping with Whirlpool while they use a status move or rocks and then whiddling them to death with a combination of Seismic Toss and Toxic. Rest allows Kangaskhan to recover his health and remove status, and paired with Early Bird only takes one turn to wake up. Really dope set especially since Kanga has 105 / 80 / 80 defenses. The Speed allows it to outpace uninvested Miltank which is pretty cool, but isn't really needed. Here are some replays from a recent room tour highlighting the effectiveness of the set:
    replays (open)

    Kangaskhan @ Silk Scarf
    Ability: Scrappy
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Fake Out
    - Double-Edge
    - Sucker Punch / Earthquake
    - Toxic

    Yeah so this is basically standard Kanga with Toxic over a coverage move to lure in stuff like Miltank and Carracosta. This allows it to be offensive like standard Kanga but helps take on defensive walls which would normally stop it cold.
  9. ~Volbeatdown~

    ~Volbeatdown~

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2013
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    hey this set is kinda cool and kinda decent too!

    [​IMG]

    Pinsir @ Normalium Z
    Ability: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Me First

    A really fun win-con that functions surprisingly well in most late-game scenarios. Z-Me-First boosts Pinsir's speed by 2, and also copies an attacking move of the opposing Pokemon if it is slower than you. What makes the set really cool is that it turns the move that your opponent used into a Z-Move for Pinsir to use. This can result in some seriously wacky exchanges! For example, if you use Z-First against a Hitmonchan's incoming Ice Punch, you not only get a 2x Speed Boost, but you also deal hefty damage to even max HP variants. Upon landing a kill, Moxie boosts Pinsir's already high attack stat (as the boost from Z-First allows you to run Adamant), and makes Pinsir into a seriously threatening late game cleaner. I recommend this set, it's fun to use, has a surprise factor, and can nab you some wins from the jaws of defeat!
  10. Megazard

    Megazard Practically Useless
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    Moderator

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    460.png
    Abomasnow @ Salac Berry
    Ability: Snow Warning
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Mild Nature
    - Blizzard
    - Giga Drain
    - Endure
    - Earthquake

    Now that Luxe is gone, this can shine in the much slower and more abusable but still breaks things almost as well because Ice+Grass is broken role that it was meant to have. LO and Scarf and SD are all good but this set is just... probably not amazing but I've already posted about scarf and the main thing to take away is Abomasnow so whatever. I was getting fed up with how it usually gets a kill but then is complete revenge kill fodder, so Endure Salac is here to annoy things like Magmortar or fast HP Fire Lanturn or whatever revenge killer they chose. The below replay also showcases the occasional value that Endure has outside of activating Salac, although it's not exactly what I'd call a normal game.
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pubeta-626613200

    Also Smashers aren't that amazing. They aren't bad, but Turtonator/Costa are just so painfully slow it makes me wonder if Huntail might just be straight up better. I've been finding that sweeping is far more rare than breaking a mon or two with raw power, because unless they have no scarfer it's just really hard to take so little damage that the incoming scarf Ape or Oricorio won't KO you immediately after. The sweepers I've found scarier are things like Z-Lovely Kiss Jynx, Kabutops, Charizard, Lycanroc, Type Null, etc. that bypass the problem of being boned by scarfers one way or another.

    Also I agree with the several previous posts that Pinsir is a really cool and versatile mon atm, I've been getting the most mileage out of SR sets but the speed+power+not being stopped by weezing-ness it brings to the table is lovely.
  11. ~Volbeatdown~

    ~Volbeatdown~

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    sorry to post twice in such quick succession but i wanted to shed some light on what i feel to be one of the most underrated and under-prepped for threats in SM PU!

    [​IMG]

    Throh @ Leftovers
    Ability: Guts
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
    Careful Nature
    - Bulk Up
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Circle Throw

    kinda reinventing the wheel here, not much innovation going on with this set, but i do feel as if it has been largely forgotten about in the haze of all these new fighting-type toys we received. RestTalk Throh can seriously just demolish teams at team preview, and when paired with effective pursuit-trappers, used to not only eliminate ghosts which hard-wall this set, but to also remove numerous psychic-types that can give Throh trouble, it shines in the current meta. It functions not only as a late-game win condition, but can also perform amicably as a Phazer, due to Circle Throw. Knock Off can also be run as Throh's attack of choice, if you don't want to be walled by Ghosts. With full SpD investment, Throh is able to brush off many prevalent special attackers in the tier, and after one or two bulk-ups, the set can spiral out of control quickly. Most people are very aware of this set's existence, and yet, teams are unprepared for it. While it's not exactly fresh or innovative, i seriously think Throh needs more love, as many current balance builds lack solid Phazers or solid checks to this set, often falling to it in the mid-to-late-game.
    Earlio, DEG and drumstick like this.
  12. Ares

    Ares
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    Drops:
    [​IMG]Archeops - This will be such a good versatile mon. There are multiple sets that all have good viability from physical to special as well as suicide lead and defensive. Will have to see how it fits into the meta to determine what is the best set.
    [​IMG]Medicham - Going to be a powerhouse as the most common fighting stop can't switch in. Sableye will most likely see a rise in usage over weezing on teams.
    [​IMG]Mesprit - Another incredibly versatile mon, can do just about everything under the sun (and rain). Most common set will most likely be offensive with rocks. Can easily run choiced or CM.
    [​IMG]Qwilfish - This is what PU has been needing for variety, thank god for qwil. A grounded poison pokemon to absorb the tspikes that were plagueing the tier as well as setting spikes and tspikes of its own. Can run a number of sets but I think the most common will have tspikes on it.

    Rises:
    [​IMG]Scyther - really unfortunate that this thing rose. Was an incredible glue mon that stacked fighting counter / pivot / wincon all into one roll as well as having a good band / scarf set. Sad to see it go but excited for the new drops.
    [​IMG] Quagsire - This rose all the way to RU so missed it from my first glance through. Stall took a hit with this departure and Pyukumuku is going to have to step into the roll for Unaware mon on stall which while good doesn't have the electric immunity that gave quag the edge.
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...date-for-september-2017.3614028/#post-7497967
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
  13. InfernoMonferno

    InfernoMonferno

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    Aug 15, 2016
    Messages:
    56
    [​IMG]So we got this monster. Its switch ins all struggle with skuntank. not as bad as gallade or sawk, but suspect worthy.
    [​IMG]YASS MY BABY. A great fighting check, ground immune, stealth rocker ect. medi check too but needs to uturn on the switch to skuntank
    [​IMG]Another god send. A grounded poison mon. this one has its own tspikes and spikes. HO loves this
    [​IMG]I've never actually used this mon, but its really strong, fast, but a shitty ability. Not sure what will happen to this, it looks good tho.
    [​IMG]thank god this bitch is gone. Uturns on everything. we will miss a ludicolo check tho.
    [​IMG]Having set up, offensive presence and being and electric immunity is something quagsire had over pyuku. We will see how stall develops without this
    rhydonphilip and tenkai like this.
  14. Yung Dramps

    Yung Dramps

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    Jul 2, 2017
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    281
    >Medicham in PU

    Haha. No.

    Not as bad as Gallade? Yeah, right. Let's look at the facts:

    • Insanely high Attack due to Pure Power
    • Psychic STAB to massacre Poison switch-ins
    • Fake Out to break sashes, as well as more reliable priority in Bullet Punch
    • 80 base speed. Sound familiar?
    • While it doesn't have SD, it does have Bulk Up, which is still a fine option for set up.
    • Vast Coverage makes it hard to wall.
    Ultimately, I feel like that the only things that can wall Medicham are bulky Psychics and Sableye. But what about Granbull, you may ask? Well, here's the thing. MEDICHAM. GETS. RECOVER. This is a MASSIVE bonus over Gallade, meaning that it could potentially use Granbull as set-up fodder, while just healing off progressively weaker Play Roughs. I do have a tendency to over-hype things sometimes (cough cough Musharna), but I think it's pretty safe to say that Medicham is just Gallade all over again, with some noticeable upgrades like reliable recovery and strong Fake Out + BP priority combo to finish off weakened foes. I'm not gonna say "BAN BAN BAN BAN", but please keep a close eye on it. That's all I'm asking for.
    Good J likes this.
  15. Demoness

    Demoness

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    That massive bonus that still leads to it having to hope not to get crit by Garnbull at all or it dies, as well as needing to be at full health and hope Granbull rolls low damage on 2 Play Rough's (and also assuming that it Bulks Up as Granbull is sent in. If it doesn't, then it's dead no matter what) so that it can actually try and setup at all.

    0 Atk Granbull Play Rough vs. +2 0 HP / 0 Def Medicham: 146-174 (55.9 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    0 Atk Granbull Play Rough vs. +3 0 HP / 0 Def Medicham: 116-138 (44.4 - 52.8%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO

    and just to prove the point that it needs to Bulk UP on the switch or Granbull kills it in two regardless:

    0 Atk Granbull Play Rough vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Medicham: 192-228 (73.5 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Yeah no, you aren't setting up reliably at all on Granbull.
  16. SergioRules

    SergioRules

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    If you won't say it, then I will. You have a mon with a decent speed tier for this meta, couple it with a Choice Band, and it becomes an absolute monster that has no switch ins bar Sableye and Granbull. Scarf makes it another beast entirely, sacrificing power for more speed to potentially beat faster mons that don't have priority or a scarf themselves. Life Orb gives it another power boost but the freedom to switch moves as well providing use in Fake Out. I think medi causes the same issues in this tier that Gallade did. It's too over centralizing and will extremely limit teambuilding but if it stays for even a day I'm gonna abuse the hell out of it and get to high ladder so I won't complain about it too much.

    tl;dr BAN BAN BAN BAN

    edit: Granbull is not a switch in anymore
    -1 252 Atk Choice Band Pure Power Medicham Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 184-218 (48 - 56.9%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO
    Good J and Aaronboyer like this.
  17. Ares

    Ares
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    Asking for something to get banned before there is even time to play test on the ladder is a bit preemptive. While the PU room has been running through stuff to check / counter Medicham and hasn't come up with much the meta still hasn't had time to adapt to it. I forsee it getting quickbanned under the new PU tiering method, but thats a decision for the tls and council. And until that point we should use this thread to discuss potential mons to stop Medicham or how Medicham breaks through them as well as new stuff.

    Actually Medicham can setup on Granbull if its at full health, this seems really niche and bad compared to most of the other Medicham sets, but the set Yung Dramps was referring to would run health to tank more stuff and recover on more things. Bulk up on the switch, bulk up again on the first play rough etc.
    0 Atk Granbull Play Rough vs. +2 252 HP / 0 Def Medicham: 146-174 (45 - 53.7%) -- 34% chance to 2HKO
    0 Atk Granbull Play Rough vs. +3 252 HP / 0 Def Medicham: 116-138 (35.8 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
  18. Chrisloud1

    Chrisloud1

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2016
    Messages:
    69
    [​IMG]

    Arbok @ Waterium Z / Poisonium Z
    Ability: Shed Skin / Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature / Jolly Nature
    - Coil
    - Gunk Shot
    - Aqua Tail / Earthquake
    - Sucker Punch

    Arbok got an attack buff this gen and with Z-Moves is not as bad as people think. With jolly nature you outspeed neutral nature skuntank and damage it with earthquake(1hko with 1 coil up) and with adamant you 1hko piloswine at +1 with z aqua tail and you have a chance to 1hko musharna with z gunk shot at +1 after rocks. With shed skin, and enough luck, you can set up on non haze weezing to +4 then 1hko with a z move or win the 1vs1 against sableye if you coil on the switch. Intimidate can be used for set up opportunity. A big set up option is gurdurr, you resist its main stabs + no knock off boost because you are holding a z-move. Arbok also gets sucker punch for things like jynx/raichu-alola and making it a little harder to revenge kill.

    Calcs (open)

    +1 252+ Atk Arbok Hydro Vortex (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Piloswine: 406-478 (100.4 - 118.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +1 252+ Atk Arbok Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Skuntank: 398-470 (114.6 - 135.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +1 252+ Atk Arbok Acid Downpour (190 BP) vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 328-387 (75.7 - 89.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ Atk Arbok Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raichu-Alola: 236-278 (90.4 - 106.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    +4 252+ Atk Arbok Hydro Vortex (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 320-377 (96 - 113.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    +4 252+ Atk Arbok Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 165-194 (49.5 - 58.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
    +1 252+ Atk Arbok Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 112-132 (36.8 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    4 Atk Sableye Knock Off vs. +1 0 HP / 4 Def Arbok: 51-60 (19.5 - 22.9%) -- possible 5HKO
  19. InfernoMonferno

    InfernoMonferno

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    Messages:
    56
    Gallade had ways to deal with fat psychics on its own, where as medicham requires support in skuntank. The pokemon that would wall its dual stabs would wall medicham, where as thats not the case with gallade. +2 knock off ohkos sab if ur running lum. +2 knock bops mush and mesprit. What does medi have for this. Yes medi can be really busted, but i feel like gallade broken balance with SD. Medi has fat psychics checking it and sab, where as banded set, which is busted, you can pivot between fighting and psychic resists. again, fat psychic types check it. Granbull isnt a good check in my eyes because its so easy to chip, where as mush has recovery.
  20. Teddeh

    Teddeh This aint a scene it's a... GOD DAMNED ARMS RACE
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    1,093
    So as far as these tier shifts are concerned, I think we got exactly what we needed to help diverse the tier by some of the best glue pokemon dropping in mesprit, qwilfish and archeops. We get 2 extra fighting checks, a faster psychic which could run scarf :O and archeops can be an offensive defogger or just fast revenge killer with a weakness to stealth rock and priority... which makes it a bit more balanced in comparison to tauros. But i don't forsee it being broken due to it having to give up its main stab (being acrobatics) if it wants to run a z-move set, which to me isn't worth it at all! So I look forward to seeing how these pokemon help shape our tier!

    As far as medicham is concerned, I am with the many that it would be considered broken, but please keep an open mind about this pokemon as it's not even 24 hours after tier shifts have happened and i am seeing "BAN BAN BAN" in this thread, which is always annoying. I can assure you the council will do its job, like it has with all of the other pokemon the council has decided to quick ban and will intend to re-test at a later date.

    As far as predictions on the meta are concerned;
    Weezing took a hit, due to having a new psychic in town come and threaten it, along with competition from qwilfish - a grounded spiker who has toxic spikes AND spikes. It will certainly add diversity to the team building structures that I've seen at the moment.
    Skuntank is probably the best pokemon in the tier due to how unique its role is in the tier, where it can check all of the psychic types + absorb t-spikes whilst having defog + priority.
    Mesprit will be the "go-to" glue pokemon now, since it does so much, it could fit on pretty much every archetype in the tier and has ways of avoiding skunk.

    Looking forward to using the new toys nonetheless :)
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
    Cheryl., Ares, Eclipse and 9 others like this.
  21. YABO

    YABO King Turt
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,006
    sup, here's a cool set.

    [​IMG]
    Persian-Alola @ Psychium Z
    Ability: Fur Coat
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Nasty Plot
    - Dark Pulse
    - Hidden Power [Ground]
    - Dream Eater

    +2 hp ground does like 70+ to Skuntank, +2 DPulse does a decent chunk to most neutral things, and +2 shattered psyche ohkos every fighting type including Throh. Fur Coat lets you set up on a bunch of stuff you wouldn't expect. It's really weak but definitely a solid cleaner in a lot of matchups. Pair it with some knock off dudes to get rid of problematic eviolites on Clefairy which lets you pick it off from like 75 with +2 SP. You're still frail with no HP invest so be aware.
    2xTheTap, Slowbroth, RawMelon and 7 others like this.
  22. Specs Jigglypuff

    Specs Jigglypuff

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Messages:
    38
    Figured I would give my thoughts on the recent drops and rises

    Drops:

    [​IMG]

    I'm excited for this thing, it can suicide lead or be a decent mixed attacker. Great speed tier and can fit on volt-turn. Not sure how much it will be used but will definitely be an interesting mon!

    [​IMG]
    Glad to have this back! Great rocker and can be a nice check to fightings. Also has great scarf and specs sets. I think it will be used a lot and will be a great mon on balance/offence.

    [​IMG]
    Finally another mon that can absorb tspikes that isnt Skuntank. Great check to a lot of physical attackers, tspikes and spikes are great in the meta and can spam scald freely. Overall i think it will be used just as much as it was before it left.

    [​IMG]
    Medicham will be a huge threat. Great balance breaker with spammable stabs. Z moves help it out a lot too. Sableye and Musharna will be almost a stable on some teams for a little while. I don't think its broken per say (atm) but definitely something you have to watch out for when building a team.

    Rises:

    [​IMG]

    Not sad to see this thing go as I was never a huge fan of it, but i cant deny that it was great in so many cores. U turn was really spammable and powerful, but I didnt really get all the hype over it. I can see us getting it back at some point but for now it will be missed.

    [​IMG]

    This thing is always moving tiers so I wouldn't be surprised if we get Quag back in a couple months. This thing was annoying to deal with, though not as tough to beat as it was in ORAS. Again not sad to see it go but it was a good mon overall and checked a lot of physical set up mons.
  23. galbia

    galbia be the freak you want to see just don't follow me
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Global Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnus
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    locking, new thread coming soon
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