lol i've seen Psychic spiritomb specifically so he can counter Toxicroak on his stall team...made laugh so hard, but hey it took my toxicroak out hahaha
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- Thread starter reachzero
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Rofl that would've been hilarious....bet that's going to be the new standard if Toxicroak keeps raping stall ;)
(I'm going to post this before Thund steals it)
So now that Umbreon is gone, I felt inclined to experiment a bit with Missy. I found a set that works really really well against Stall. It shuts down most stall members and forces a ton of switches.
Mismagius @ Leftovers
Timid, 176 SPE, 236 HP, 96 SDEF
-Taunt
-Substitute
-Will o Wisp
-Pain Split/Rest
On paper, this might seem like an inferior bulky missy (it trades off Shadow Ball for Substitute and sticks the SATK EVs into HP) but while it loses usability against offensive teams it gains much better stallbreaking ability. The main problems with bulky missy are that, even with Will o Wisp, it takes a ton of damage from physical attacks, especially those from the likes of Absol or Rhyperior, it is vunerable to being revenge killed (especially by Swellow) or pursuited, and it is vunerable to side effects of attacks (sludge bomb poison, ice beam freeze, etc). This set aims to fix those issues with Substitute. Burn your opponent, then substitute down as they try to attack you. Your substitute will be unbreakable against weaker stall members (Registeel can't break your sub with Iron Head, for instance) and, against those who can break it, you're free to sub down until you need to heal. You can use Pain Split or Rest, depending on your preference. Rest works best with a cleric, but it does fine by itself too, especially if your opponent's physical attackers are all burned. Pain Split lets you heal without wasting turns, although if your opponent leaves his weakened wall in to die you're not going to be able to heal very easily.
This will cost stall teams at least one Pokemon if they don't have a Pokemon that is immune to Will O Wisp and has reliable healing (Clefable, Arcanine, Moltres). A standard stall team consisting of Milotic/Venusaur/Hitmontop/Chansey/Spiritomb/Rhyperior, for instance, will simply not be able to beat this set and will lose its members one by one. Speaking of Hitmontop, this is probably the best spinblocker ever. It can Taunt Foresight and Rest attempts, burn the spinner, and heal off any damage.
This pairs extremely well with Pokemon that only have one real counter on stall teams, because your opponent will often sac a Pokemon just to bring Missy down to low health. For instance, I pair this Missy with Arcanine, Rhyperior, and Jynx. If they sac Milotic/Venusaur/Registeel, one of my team members will dismantle the rest of the core.
This set has a couple of issues. One is Swellow. If you sub on the switch though, you can beat it by Subbing until you're at <25%, then using Pain Split/Rest. Swellow should be dead or close to it by this point. Another one is Clefable. Taunting Clefable makes it completely useless though, so you can happily switch in a boosting attacker without worrying about Encore/Twave. And finally, bulky fire types give this major grief. You can Taunt Arcanine/Moltres and prevent them from healing; you may even beat Moltres, but Arcanine does too much damage with Flare Blitz. Stealth Rock and Bulky water support is recommended; you can also switch to Toxic if you're more worried about those guys than Registeel/Steelix/Venusaur, which lets you beat them.
Give it a shot if stall is bothering you.
So now that Umbreon is gone, I felt inclined to experiment a bit with Missy. I found a set that works really really well against Stall. It shuts down most stall members and forces a ton of switches.
Mismagius @ Leftovers
Timid, 176 SPE, 236 HP, 96 SDEF
-Taunt
-Substitute
-Will o Wisp
-Pain Split/Rest
On paper, this might seem like an inferior bulky missy (it trades off Shadow Ball for Substitute and sticks the SATK EVs into HP) but while it loses usability against offensive teams it gains much better stallbreaking ability. The main problems with bulky missy are that, even with Will o Wisp, it takes a ton of damage from physical attacks, especially those from the likes of Absol or Rhyperior, it is vunerable to being revenge killed (especially by Swellow) or pursuited, and it is vunerable to side effects of attacks (sludge bomb poison, ice beam freeze, etc). This set aims to fix those issues with Substitute. Burn your opponent, then substitute down as they try to attack you. Your substitute will be unbreakable against weaker stall members (Registeel can't break your sub with Iron Head, for instance) and, against those who can break it, you're free to sub down until you need to heal. You can use Pain Split or Rest, depending on your preference. Rest works best with a cleric, but it does fine by itself too, especially if your opponent's physical attackers are all burned. Pain Split lets you heal without wasting turns, although if your opponent leaves his weakened wall in to die you're not going to be able to heal very easily.
This will cost stall teams at least one Pokemon if they don't have a Pokemon that is immune to Will O Wisp and has reliable healing (Clefable, Arcanine, Moltres). A standard stall team consisting of Milotic/Venusaur/Hitmontop/Chansey/Spiritomb/Rhyperior, for instance, will simply not be able to beat this set and will lose its members one by one. Speaking of Hitmontop, this is probably the best spinblocker ever. It can Taunt Foresight and Rest attempts, burn the spinner, and heal off any damage.
This pairs extremely well with Pokemon that only have one real counter on stall teams, because your opponent will often sac a Pokemon just to bring Missy down to low health. For instance, I pair this Missy with Arcanine, Rhyperior, and Jynx. If they sac Milotic/Venusaur/Registeel, one of my team members will dismantle the rest of the core.
This set has a couple of issues. One is Swellow. If you sub on the switch though, you can beat it by Subbing until you're at <25%, then using Pain Split/Rest. Swellow should be dead or close to it by this point. Another one is Clefable. Taunting Clefable makes it completely useless though, so you can happily switch in a boosting attacker without worrying about Encore/Twave. And finally, bulky fire types give this major grief. You can Taunt Arcanine/Moltres and prevent them from healing; you may even beat Moltres, but Arcanine does too much damage with Flare Blitz. Stealth Rock and Bulky water support is recommended; you can also switch to Toxic if you're more worried about those guys than Registeel/Steelix/Venusaur, which lets you beat them.
Give it a shot if stall is bothering you.
Actually, isn't that set already common? It was popularized by Thund way back then, so I think that's only a different spread and Substitute over Shadow Ball. Anyways, I have used this for a day or two, and I gotta say just like it works against stall; it works on stall as well. This set works as a decent spinblocker, being able to block Foresight spin, beating Blastoise, though having to watch out for Donphan and Hitmontop, as Missy's physical bulk is quite dissapointing; shutting down support Clefable ( Clefable can't touch you at all because all it has as attacking moves is Seismic Toss, so you can PP stall it), which is great because stall tends to struggle against Clefable and slow SubSeed mons. Finally, it can help against Cro mons, as by the time they take Missy out they'll probably find themselves taunted and around 20%, thus easy picks. The set I used was Timid 252 HP/200 SpD/56 Spe and with Shadow Ball/ Pain Split/ Taunt/ WoW(enough speed for base 80 mons, making it a decent additional check to Venusaur).
I've been seeing a lot of DDGatrs on the ladder lately, and it absolutely rips through standard offense, and if you don't pack a Scarfer or a Milotic you're basically fucked. Registeel can't do much other than paralyze it, which is just begging for Duggy to come in. It doesn't hurt that it's not weak to any form of priority either, and gets plenty of oppurtunities to set up thanks to its decent bulk.
If that thing had base 81 speed and a special defense that allowed it not to be fucked by setting up on Moltres' face...
Don't think the extra speed would make much difference...the only Pokemon who can actually check SDgatr in the 79-81 speed range is Venusaur. Although if it could set up on Moltres it wouldn't be sitting on its ass in UU:P
Yeah I tried that set yesterday, the lack of recovery was really annoying though. I wish Mismagius got leech seed. And Bluewind I know the only difference between mine and thund's old set is Substitute, I even said that right in my post lol. The reason to use Sub though is because it lets you beat a few extra things, like I pointed out.
So when does this round start exactly? I just saw a Raikou on the ladder....
Arrgh! Apparently to the Shoddy Gods the best way to show me my team was sun weak is to make me lose them 4 out of 5 times I played them in like 20 minutes.
Seriously sun is everywhere.
Seriously sun is everywhere.
Or you keep playing the same few people testing out sun.
Even though Bluewind be hatin, I've been running a Fake Out + Last Resort Ambipom with HUGE success. Just need to get rid of Steel- and Ghost-types (hint, use Mixdoom) and it sweeps teams. Adamant with Silk Scarf is the way to go, since you can't hurt Missy, and now Raikou's gone so you don't have to worry about him.
Honestly if you're going to get rid of Ghosts and Steels anyway, I'd rather just set up a Swellow sweep(Facade from Swellow> Last Resort from 'Pom)or even a Linoone sweep.
Anyone been using specs moltres? Requires massive spin support, but hits hard.
Hi, im blastoise!!! I'm gonna come in and wall your moltres! Ow, that stealth rock and layer of spikes hurt, but ill just spin them away while you switch! And your omastar is dead, so you can't do nothing about it!
Ha you used air slash, weak sauce...what the hell? How is that 2hko'ing!!!???!!!
Ha, im chansey, and it doesn't matter that you have moltres because im at 80%! Oh, those spikes and and stealth rock brought me down to about 60%, but you can't do 30% a hit...what the hell? It's moltres on steroids!
Fun fact...Overheat pwns the metagame so hard. Switching on venasaur. Rock their world when they switch out
Hi, im blastoise!!! I'm gonna come in and wall your moltres! Ow, that stealth rock and layer of spikes hurt, but ill just spin them away while you switch! And your omastar is dead, so you can't do nothing about it!
Ha you used air slash, weak sauce...what the hell? How is that 2hko'ing!!!???!!!
Ha, im chansey, and it doesn't matter that you have moltres because im at 80%! Oh, those spikes and and stealth rock brought me down to about 60%, but you can't do 30% a hit...what the hell? It's moltres on steroids!
Fun fact...Overheat pwns the metagame so hard. Switching on venasaur. Rock their world when they switch out
LO Moltres in general, would do better, although Specs Moltres is really cool to use. The power difference isn't all that worth it if you consider the fact that you can't Roost off SR damage.
Anyway, when's the ladder going to be restarted?? I want to play UU without having to use an anti-lead for Froslass anymore.
Anyway, when's the ladder going to be restarted?? I want to play UU without having to use an anti-lead for Froslass anymore.
Must've been a bit of deja vu there, eh? But seriously the ladder has been seeing lots of variety lately....and when's the ladder going to be reset?
Well Blastoise wouldn't come in on Moltres anyways as it just doesn't have the bulk to take Air Slash + HP Grass with SR and Spikes down. And yes, Moltres does more than 30% to Chansey even without Specs (29.44% - 34.74% with LO and Timid nature; 32.24% - 38.01% with Modest).
Oh and can someone explain the Hitmonlee surge? ._.
I think Hipmonlee is a pretty cool guy. eh kicks twavers in the face and doesnt afraid of anything.
But really, I think it's just that people are realizing it's faster and stronger than Hitmontop and can't be paralyzed, so it compares favorably to non-Technitops for just beating the snot out of things.
Also, woo, goodbye Umbreon. That thing's almost as bad as Cradily without a (P)hazer.
Except for Iron Head that takes like 50% off those nippy defenses ._.
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